I am Looking for A 4:3 LCD, playing PS1 via RGB

[PSXplayer]

Hi there,

I was trying to archieve a good picture for my PS1 over RGB sync on luma, so i was looking around and found something interesting,

I found the Samsung LW20M21CP

it is A 4:3 LCD TV, It can handle Pal and NTSC signals via RGB SCART

there are different models that has different resulutions.

a: 1024 x 768 (LW15M23C)
b: 1280 x 1024 (LW17M24C/LW17M24CU)
c: 640 x 480 (LW20M21C)
d: 800 x 600 (LW20M21CU/LW20M22C)

The PS1 output specs says:

Progressive: 256×224 to 640×240 pixels
Interlaced: 256×448 to 640×480 pixels


So guys what do you think which model will give me the better picture?

Thanks

[SCARTicus]

You said you found something interesting. Where is it?

[PSXplayer]

You said you found something interesting. Where is it?

come on man

[Fudoh]

none of these will give you any viable quality.

If you need a 4:3 solution and you need something around this size, get a 20 or 21" NEC PC monitor along with a Retrotink 2x Scart.

[strayan]

So guys what do you think which model will give me the better picture?

Of the models you listed I would suspect the 640x480 one would look the best but I still don't think it would look all that great unless you paired it with a line doubler that output 640x480 and had it connected to the VGA port on the monitor.

[Fudoh]

Resolution is the least of the problem here. We're talking cheap VGA-resolution TN panels from 2002/03. That's really as bad as it gets, no matter what you connect to it.

[strayan]

We're talking cheap VGA-resolution TN panels from 2002/03.

True, it's gonna be a bad screen no matter what.

[maxtherabbit]

yeah old LCDs are pretty damn terrible at everything

[Lawfer]

Either an Eizo S2133 or a NEC P212, these are the last 4:3 LCDs models released, these have a native resolution of 1600x1200, so you can plug your PS1 or other 240p consoles and use the OSSC to increase the resolution to 1600x1200.

[PSXplayer]

Either an Eizo S2133 or a NEC P212, these are the last 4:3 LCDs models released, these have a native resolution of 1600x1200, so you can plug your PS1 or other 240p consoles and use the OSSC to increase the resolution to 1600x1200.

they cost 700 bucks

[Steamflogger Boss]

Either an Eizo S2133 or a NEC P212, these are the last 4:3 LCDs models released, these have a native resolution of 1600x1200, so you can plug your PS1 or other 240p consoles and use the OSSC to increase the resolution to 1600x1200.

they cost 700 bucks

You don't have a lot of options if you need a 4:3 LCD that doesn't absolutely suck.

[matt]

Why the need for a 4:3 monitor vs just running 16:9 pillarboxed?

Best picture for a PS1 would be a cheap old CRT with SCART or Component, but not everyone has the space.

[Guspaz]

I can't think of any scenario where a 4:3 LCD will offer any advantage in any way than a 16:9 LCD set to do an aspect-ratio scale. The 4:3 LCD is going to have more lag, worse response times, and worse image quality.

There are advantages to using a CRT, either directly driven or a PC CRT with an upscaled image, but old LCDs have no advantages over newer LCDs.

[SuperDeadite]

Honestly the PSOne screen is probably the best looker if the size doesnt bother you.

[fernan1234]

A PS1 RGB signal, like many other analogue sources, won't fit perfectly on a 4:3 LCD just because it's 4:3. There will still be some black borders, just less than on a 16:9 panel obviously. But you know, black borders around the picture never killed anyone.

[Xer Xian]

For a short time I used my OSSC with an old 5:4 lcd monitor, model NEC 1990SXi.

It's got a 19" 1280x1024 IPS panel, shitty response time and contrast by today's standard ofc but lag is decent (20ms), has an 1:1 mode (good for 960p with small borders) and can be rotated (but in the wrong direction for most tate shmups).

It's bad and you'd be better off buying a modern LCD (or even better, y'know, a proper CRT, so you won't need an OSSC), but if you REALLY don't want a 16:9 monitor AND it has to be a flatscreen then see if you can find it for like 50 bucks shipped on eBay or something.

(there's a cheap 5:4 Nec you can still buy to this day at least in Europe - it's called EA193Mi - you don't want to buy this because it lacks a 1:1 mode so the OSSC output will get stretched out)

[gravitone]

I'm going to have to post a reply here as I feel there's a bit of a unfounded negative bias, a severe lack of actual experience, and therefore a lack of factual information.

I've owned a Samsung LW20M21C for a number of years now, as well as a number of other 480P EDTV's.

Here's a closeup shot of what it looks like in action.



The good:
These don't have TN panels, this particular samsung model has an MVA panel.
These displays are considerably brighter then the average monitor because they've been equipped with stronger backlights.
The panel has a natural vertical slot-mask appearance which looks great with any 480p content you throw at it.


The bad:
1. I noticed a lot of noise in the image fed through RGB scart. I looked up the schematic, and found out samsung in their wisdom decided to convert all incoming signals except VGA to composite before routing it to the image processor/scaler.
2. The build in processor/scaler does not handle 240p content as it should. 240p test suite drop shadow test proves this easily.
3. while it does look good/decent in well lit environments, much more so then early 20's lcd monitors, the blacks on this particular model are not stellar. You can notice some backlight bleed around the edges, and an overall greyish tone when viewed in the dark.
4. motion blur. The panel they used isn't the fastest. I believe the quoted response time is 25ms (I'd have to recheck the documentation to verify).

personal conclusion:
It's not going to be your number one choice when doing the escape from the cave of wonders on the carpet in aladdin, or blasting through green hills in sonic. It's not unplayable by any means, its just a bit blurrier then what would be acceptable for most people, let alone CRT purists.
But I've you're shooting away in a slow scroling game of metal slug, playing a round of puzzle bobble, doing a playthrough of kirby's adventure, you're going to have a good experience. I'd still pick this display over any 1024x768 or 1280x1024 panel from that era any day.
As long as you feed it a source through the vga port @ 640x480 you're good. So any 240p source will require an external scaler.

Having said that, my go to display at the moment is my trusty philips 20pf4121. It pretty much deals with all the shortcomings that the samsung has.
Responsive time is much faster, ghosting is pretty much eliminated compared to the panel samsung uses.
It's IPS tech, with great color reproduction, and in my case no noticable backlight bleed.
The RGB scart input actually works as intended, And it passes the 240p test!. It has a DVI-I input, so hdmi-dvi xbox 360/ps3 works like a charm, and the analog part of the DVI can be fed with either VGA or component with a simple passive adapter.
320x240 psx games will scale perfectly. The image processor/scaler is smart enough to detect the active part window of the video frame, and map that to the display.
These also work great in TATE mode if you take the stand off.



If you want more info, or if anyone wants some more shots, I can provide both.

[maxtherabbit]

motion blur in a gaming display is absolutely unforgivable, static image quality means nothing

[gravitone]

motion blur in a gaming display is absolutely unforgivable, static image quality means nothing

Hence why I recommended the Philips over the Samsung since the difference is night and day.

[Taiyaki]

none of these will give you any viable quality.

If you need a 4:3 solution and you need something around this size, get a 20 or 21" NEC PC monitor along with a Retrotink 2x Scart.

This. Get the NEC or EIZO monitors. Preferably the 1600x1200 ones that way scaling won't be an issue for other consoles either. I forget the model number for the NEC but the Eizo that fits the bill is the S2133. Try getting them second hand optionally. The picture on those two is insanely good. They're geared towards pros but work great for gamers too.

[Lawfer]

I forget the model number for the NEC

P212.

[Taiyaki]

I forget the model number for the NEC

P212.

Thank you. yes that's the one. The P212 and the S2133 are easily the best 4:3 lcd's around imo. I also had a Samsung 1600x1200 (forgot model number) and the Dell 2007FP (also 1600x1200), and both were pretty good for the price back in the day, but the difference with the Eizo S2133 and NEC P212 is huge. It's a whole different world of LCD's.