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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 6:34 pm 


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Nice, I didn't realize Huntdown was out yet.

The early trailer a couple years back was, how shall we say, a case study in how to make your game look like all style no substance, but it looks like the final game stepped things up quite a bit.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:24 pm 


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I think the biggest thing to remember is if you go in expecting Contra/Metal Slug you might be disappointed, definitely feels more Elevator Action Returns.

Which is funny cause I keep hearing reviewers compare it to Contra and Metal Slug. *face palm*
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:32 pm 


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Hey, if those two are all those people know, then they're all they know.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:24 am 


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Anyone play that recent beat 'em up, The Takeover? It's coming out for Switch (it's also on PS4 and Steam) and it sounds interesting. I wonder how it compares to SoR4 and Fight 'n Rage.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:50 am 


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WelshMegalodon wrote:
Hey, if those two are all those people know, then they're all they know.


IMO it's kind of interesting though, that there are pretty much no other popular examples of the run'n'gun platformer. There area handful of other great games in the genre, but most of them are kinda obscure, and very few are close to as great as those two series of games.

Gunstar Heroes is probably the best example I can think of, of another prolific game in that genre.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:40 am 


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BrianC wrote:
Anyone play that recent beat 'em up, The Takeover? It's coming out for Switch (it's also on PS4 and Steam) and it sounds interesting. I wonder how it compares to SoR4 and Fight 'n Rage.


I played it recently, and thought it wasn't good. I'll copy my brief thoughts from elsewhere.

Quote:
Your movesets aren't bad (similar to Streets of Rage, which this game is transparently heavily inspired by), but compared to even something like Streets of Rage 2 your options lack nuance and the playable characters aren't especially differentiated from each other. There are multiple "bomb" mechanics for some reason (an temporary invincibility mode you can activate after doing enough damage, and a fullscreen bomb attack you can use on command after taking certain pickups), which together feel pretty superfluous.

The real killer is the enemy design, which is incredibly poor. Even on hard mode, almost all enemies (save a few unique mechs that mostly only appear in the final stages) behave the exact same way, with almost no distinguishing behaviors. As a result, there is, necessarily, no real encounter design, and every fight in the game feels the same. Going back to Final Fight, the grandfather of brawlers, you can see that even that game got that right, so what happened here?


The game doesn't feel like it has much nuance. It kind of reads to me like a brawler made by someone who doesn't feel they're much more than credit-feeders where you just walk to the right and mash buttons to beat dudes up.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:45 pm 


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Sumez wrote:
IMO it's kind of interesting though, that there are pretty much no other popular examples of the run'n'gun platformer. There area handful of other great games in the genre, but most of them are kinda obscure, and very few are close to as great as those two series of games.

Gunstar Heroes is probably the best example I can think of, of another prolific game in that genre.


All this talk of run n' gun has made me think of The Adventures of Batman and Robin on the MD. Man I loved that game but the not being able to run while you attack killed it for me.

But damn for real. I'm sitting here trying to think of other Run n' Guns besides the three we've mentioned and in five minutes I came up with Cyber Lip. It fits the criteria for the genre, but I wouldn't say it's well known, at least to your average audience.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:00 pm 


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Contra/Slug are like the Sabbath/Zeppelin of hardcore run & guns. They're by no means the only ones, nor are they especially similar to one another, but they're culturally ubiquitous icons of R2RKMF, and a great way to get casual eyes on quality work. Once the curious are sat down and enjoying themselves, they'll hopefully appreciate the deviations on their own (haven't played Huntdown, but in EAR's case, the measured pace, mild tactical stealth and eponymous elevator actioning, all entirely un-Contra/Slug) - ideally they'll want to seek out more.

Hardcore nutters will OFC know at a glance that something is/isn't Contra-esque, just like Valghaard McDickSwang won't need to be informed that BUZUMBUGGERER THE DESPAIROR's new EP Black Goat w/ Titties All Up On Muh Dick is blackened Scandinavian neo-goth with doomblast overtones. Image Motherfucker's probably in the liner notes.

(I personally consider equating icy, surgical Contra to messy, gashing Slug a rank dilettantism Image but I understand why they're interchangeable from mainstream POV. Don't wanna be the dude who goes *SNORT* AYKSHUALLY, ZEPPELIN IS BLUES-ROCK WITH PROGRESSIVE JAZZ INFLUENCES, AHYUCK *EXPLOSION OF CHEETO DUST* They're never much help in the long run :mrgreen:)
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Last edited by BIL on Thu Jun 04, 2020 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:15 pm 


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It's worth remembering that, when Gunstar Heroes was new, 16-bit consoles were nearly absent from large parts of the world, where Famiclones and NES Contra on multi-game bootleg carts, as well as Metal Slug cabs, were ubiquitous.
We got to play Antarctic Adventure and Binary Land on consoles instead, so, these were some alternate realities.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:17 pm 


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Sir Ilpalazzo wrote:
BrianC wrote:
Anyone play that recent beat 'em up, The Takeover? It's coming out for Switch (it's also on PS4 and Steam) and it sounds interesting. I wonder how it compares to SoR4 and Fight 'n Rage.


I played it recently, and thought it wasn't good. I'll copy my brief thoughts from elsewhere.

Quote:
Your movesets aren't bad (similar to Streets of Rage, which this game is transparently heavily inspired by), but compared to even something like Streets of Rage 2 your options lack nuance and the playable characters aren't especially differentiated from each other. There are multiple "bomb" mechanics for some reason (an temporary invincibility mode you can activate after doing enough damage, and a fullscreen bomb attack you can use on command after taking certain pickups), which together feel pretty superfluous.

The real killer is the enemy design, which is incredibly poor. Even on hard mode, almost all enemies (save a few unique mechs that mostly only appear in the final stages) behave the exact same way, with almost no distinguishing behaviors. As a result, there is, necessarily, no real encounter design, and every fight in the game feels the same. Going back to Final Fight, the grandfather of brawlers, you can see that even that game got that right, so what happened here?


The game doesn't feel like it has much nuance. It kind of reads to me like a brawler made by someone who doesn't feel they're much more than credit-feeders where you just walk to the right and mash buttons to beat dudes up.


Thanks for the impressions. That doesn't sound good at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:38 pm 


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Stevens wrote:
But damn for real. I'm sitting here trying to think of other Run n' Guns besides the three we've mentioned and in five minutes I came up with Cyber Lip. It fits the criteria for the genre, but I wouldn't say it's well known, at least to your average audience.


Midnight Resistance seems relatively acknowledged (like a lot of DECO arcade games, and Raiden, I suspect they had excellent distribution BITD), but it's really not too prolific a subgenre. Lots of fondly-regarded arcade hits where shooting is key (Daimakaimura, Shinobi, Rolling Thunder, Ninja Spirit, Elevator Action), but in not one of those can you actually "run and gun." And there's virtually nothing that matches Contra and Slug's longevity or proliferation.

Gunstar is a notable exception, but only that. I would say Alien Soldier, too, but it's not as high-profile (I'm sure being JP/EU-only didn't help), and it tends to be written off as some kind of experimental murder machine too deadly for human consumption (it's totally not, but it is super-idiosyncratic in its hybrid of bumpy roughhousing and precision slaying, needing at least a couple evenings before you can start grappling with the game proper).

There's the whole mecha subgenre, most popularly identified with Cybernator/Valken, but that tends to be perceived innately differently (and rightly so, with their typical focus on piloting a heavy machine and avoiding/blocking merely the lion's share of damage, rather than the slightest brush meaning death). I remember ROHGA (Wolf Fang's overseas ver) being surprisingly well-known - again, them DECO distributor links.

Image

Fuck me, Rohga is great Image Got very decent PS1/SS conversions but still, ACA PLS

Oh, speaking of DECO and Midnight Resistance - Robocop, obv.

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HIT THE BIG SCREEN BAYBEE!! Image Can't feel too good with how that dude ended up though :shock:
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:01 pm 


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I feel like this is one of those situations if I wasn't trying to think about them I could come up with fifty.

Also Midnight Resistance was dope.

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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:34 pm 


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Too bad for Demon Front, too. It's the only Metal-Slug-like that's able to stand up next the quality of that series without losing face, but being a PGM exclusive has doomed it to obscurity.
At least it's actually emulated nowadays...


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:20 am 



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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:25 am 


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Anyone can post here. EXCEPT SCRUBS (`ω´メ) :wink:
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:31 am 



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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:49 pm 


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Finished Huntdown with Mo' Murder. He really is a lot of fun to play. Really need to give Cobretti a whirl. Anna? Meh. Don't love her gun or projectile enough to bother just yet.

The last boss is ridiculously fun. In fact on my way up to him I spotted a painting on the wall. When the fight started I was NOT disappointed. I was going to put a less obvious quote from where the painting is from, but I don't want to ruin the surprise. He killed me exactly 20 times before I was able to clinch it.

I also forgot to mention that you can switch between characters during a run. Not on the fly, it takes you back to the start of the stage.

I had started another play through with Mo' on hard. And was able to shoot my way through the first gang without too much trouble. Differences in difficulty affects the size of your health bar -

Normal five
Hard three
And BADASS (unlocked after you finish it) turns the game into a white knuckle 1 hit kill affair

No matter your skill there is something here for you.

Enemies and pick ups remain the same as far as I can tell.

Now that I sort of know what I'm doing hard feels pretty fair. I'm sure I'll get curb stomped a little towards the end though. The bosses all have clear tells for what they're going to do next. They have just enough moves to keep it from being boring, but not so many that it's hard to memorize them all.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:30 pm 


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Arasoi wrote:
This my favorite part of the community.

May I post here?

Kitten, sorry for before.

May I post in your safe space?

Thank you..


?_____?

this is an extremely jarringly strange message. i am by absolutely no means any sort of gatekeeper nor do i want to be. i do not think of this as a 'safe space' and this intimation feels bizarre to point at me
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:57 pm 


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I couldn't find a case where you'd butted heads together before so I just assumed this was some off-colour joke further muddled by a language barrier or something. :?:
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:59 pm 


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Still working on NG1 on and off with no real progress. I was getting promising results playing in emulated form when my USB Saturn pad decided to fail me and stopped working. I'll open it up to find out if it's thoroughly broken or just dirty contacts.

When fighting the twin boss of act 4, I had it glitch on me in an unexpected way: Out of the blue a third one dropped from above, so I had to fight 3 of the bosses at the same time. I'm pretty sure that's not supposed to happen. Anyone know what triggers this?


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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:03 pm 


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user Arasoi seems on an edgelord stride lately 8) wheter it'll end up being self-destructive or not, the future knows

some heat went down in the hardware forum a couple days ago. ever since, this user has been highly volatile 8)
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:29 pm 


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BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
I couldn't find a case where you'd butted heads together before so I just assumed this was some off-colour joke further muddled by a language barrier or something. :?:


we had some private communication a year or two back that i (strongly) don't think bears discussion in here. the conclusion they need to ask me for permission to post in here is extraordinarily strange, to me. i have not talked to them in quite some time and never suggested i preferred they stay away from me or cease communication with me or stay out of spaces i am in. if there's an issue it is absolutely not something that belongs in this thread or anywhere on this forum.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:07 pm 


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Indeed, it should go without saying that this is not a particularly safe space. It was forged in a thermonuclear nerdfight, and at this point is probably fucking haunted. By the ghosts of at least several quadrillion zako. :wink:

Herr Schatten wrote:
Still working on NG1 on and off with no real progress. I was getting promising results playing in emulated form when my USB Saturn pad decided to fail me and stopped working. I'll open it up to find out if it's thoroughly broken or just dirty contacts.


That's when you know you're really HARD GAYMING Image Metal Slug X and 3 no-misses ran me a DualShock 4 dpad underlay apiece already, this year. Still gotta do MS3's alt routes and MS4. Now, my dpad is even crappier than it was in OEM condition! Great games, crummy hardware.

My goddamn PS1 DualShocks still work without a hitch after twenty friggin years, and I got REAL gay with 'em BITD. Unholy hours of Tekken 3 and SFA3, only thing that wore out was my left thumb. Image

Quote:
When fighting the twin boss of act 4, I had it glitch on me in an unexpected way: Out of the blue a third one dropped from above, so I had to fight 3 of the bosses at the same time. I'm pretty sure that's not supposed to happen. Anyone know what triggers this?


It happens. :lol: Definitely not supposed to, just a rare glitch. Assuming you're not instakilling it with Jumpslash, second and third best options are to reach it with a Windmill Star (will slice straight through the clone, instakilling it - I imagine it'd do the same for any glitched copies, too, but I've never had the pleasure...), and the Upshot Firewheel (does some decent damage if fired at close range while you're under the pillar, which is a safespot).
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:34 pm 


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FinalBaton wrote:
the hardware forum


That place is a foreign country to me. I go in there rarely, but am always amazed at how many posters the site has that only post in there. They're complete strangers!

BIL wrote:
Indeed, it should go without saying that this is not a particularly safe space. It was forged in a thermonuclear nerdfight


They're coming through with snake and nape, don't get out of your foxhole.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:47 pm 


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BIL wrote:
is probably fucking haunted.

by Edman, right? and if I'm to believe this thread's themed album cover, he got buttfucked by the good doctor! over some MISSED JUMPS!!!! (and probably constant whinery too)

Stevens wrote:
That place is a foreign country to me. I go in there rarely, but am always amazed at how many posters the site has that only post in there. They're complete strangers!

yep, at least half of the hardware mutants don't post elsewhere on the forum. we gots a WORLD RENOWNED hardware section over here (due in no small parts to the big F : Fudoh! but several others like Mark OZLAD), so many people sign up just to get hardware answers.

we also got tons of EDGE in here 8) so much so, that you need to be careful when opening the threads, not to cut yourself 8)
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:54 pm 


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Stevens wrote:
FinalBaton wrote:
the hardware forum


That place is a foreign country to me. I go in there rarely, but am always amazed at how many posters the site has that only post in there. They're complete strangers!

BIL wrote:
Indeed, it should go without saying that this is not a particularly safe space. It was forged in a thermonuclear nerdfight


They're coming through with snake and nape, don't get out of your foxhole.


I hadn't been there in awhile but some gem threads had me checking frequently the last few days.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:56 pm 


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Steamflogger Boss wrote:
I hadn't been there in awhile but some gem threads had me checking frequently the last few days.

You done dealing with the Xsync-1 edgy boi?
(you were actually the most patient with him. but man what an attitude on that guy hahaha)
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:15 pm 


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FinalBaton wrote:
Steamflogger Boss wrote:
I hadn't been there in awhile but some gem threads had me checking frequently the last few days.

You done dealing with the Xsync-1 edgy boi?
(you were actually the most patient with him. but man what an attitude on that guy hahaha)


He ended up scoring a deal from the ebay listing I linked to. I would guess he leaves now since his quest is completed but who knows. The mister thread was the other one though you probably could have guessed that. :lol:

Oh and on topic: I am on a ps1 kick. What's good in this genre?
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:39 pm 


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BIL's usual recommendations are Silent Bomber and Strider Hiryu 2.
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 Post subject: Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari
PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:41 pm 


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I have not played Silent Bomber, this will be remedied.
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