Lag-Free VGA/RGBs Multiviewer
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HalHawkins
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:51 pm
Lag-Free VGA/RGBs Multiviewer
I'm looking to see if a lag-free multiviewer exists that can allow me to put 2x 240p RGBs sources on a 38" CRT monitor. The monitor can go up to 480p. Think like putting 2x simultaneous games of NES Tetris on the same screen view SCART/RGBs/VGA adapter. Or in other words a lag-free device to do split screens
Re: Lag-Free VGA/RGBs Multiviewer
EDIT: Sorry, I misread that you are looking for a 2:1 device and not the opposite. Sorry to bother ...Hi,
a friend of mine has a nice Extron Splitter lying around. https://www.extron.com/product/da4rgbhv
Not 100% sure about possible lags, but I'd expect this device to be lagless since there's no kind of analogue/digital conversion, framebuffer or whatever.
Just drop me a PM if you're interested.
And note that the device would be shipped from germany - so if you're outside Europe there's a chance it could get expensive.
Re: Lag-Free VGA/RGBs Multiviewer
much harder to do than you'd expect, since you're looking at 15khz sources that have to be deinterlaced first, then the multi view processor has to normalize the refresh rates of both sources and it needs to scale both sources. In other words: you won't get lag-free performance.
You can pick up an Extron IN1508 for next to nothing (really, like under $50) and you can give it a try with any progressive sources you've got around. If you like what you're seeing, you can add two lag free linedoublers (e.g. two Retrotink doublers).
The IN1508 also has composite and s-video inputs (for 15khz sources), but the RGB inputs require at least 24 or 31khz signals.
The IN1508 has a letterboxed side by side mode, which does exactly you want in terms of multi-view. With progressive source (e.g. 2x 480p from two Retrotink doublers), the lag on the IN1508 might be as low a single frame.
You can pick up an Extron IN1508 for next to nothing (really, like under $50) and you can give it a try with any progressive sources you've got around. If you like what you're seeing, you can add two lag free linedoublers (e.g. two Retrotink doublers).
The IN1508 also has composite and s-video inputs (for 15khz sources), but the RGB inputs require at least 24 or 31khz signals.
The IN1508 has a letterboxed side by side mode, which does exactly you want in terms of multi-view. With progressive source (e.g. 2x 480p from two Retrotink doublers), the lag on the IN1508 might be as low a single frame.
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HalHawkins
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:51 pm
Re: Lag-Free VGA/RGBs Multiviewer
So using my 2 XRGB2s would work thenFudoh wrote:much harder to do than you'd expect, since you're looking at 15khz sources that have to be deinterlaced first, then the multi view processor has to normalize the refresh rates of both sources and it needs to scale both sources. In other words: you won't get lag-free performance.
You can pick up an Extron IN1508 for next to nothing (really, like under $50) and you can give it a try with any progressive sources you've got around. If you like what you're seeing, you can add two lag free linedoublers (e.g. two Retrotink doublers).
The IN1508 also has composite and s-video inputs (for 15khz sources), but the RGB inputs require at least 24 or 31khz signals.
The IN1508 has a letterboxed side by side mode, which does exactly you want in terms of multi-view. With progressive source (e.g. 2x 480p from two Retrotink doublers), the lag on the IN1508 might be as low a single frame.
Re: Lag-Free VGA/RGBs Multiviewer
should work, yes.
If you end up getting an IN1508, please update the thread here to let us know how it worked out.
If you end up getting an IN1508, please update the thread here to let us know how it worked out.
Re: Lag-Free VGA/RGBs Multiviewer
just checking the IN1508 manual and I see that it only works for one ED source and one SD source at a time, so you'd need to connect one source through a linedoubler to the RGB input and the other using a transcoder to the SD component input.
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HalHawkins
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:51 pm
Re: Lag-Free VGA/RGBs Multiviewer
So one XRGB2 using Scart and and the other using HD Retrovision cableFudoh wrote:just checking the IN1508 manual and I see that it only works for one ED source and one SD source at a time, so you'd need to connect one source through a linedoubler to the RGB input and the other using a transcoder to the SD component input.
Re: Lag-Free VGA/RGBs Multiviewer
sounds like a plan. I don't know how the IN1508 will handle the 240p input through component, but for $40 + shipping for the Extron it's worth a try I guess. Fun project
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- Posts: 1974
- Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:52 pm
Re: Lag-Free VGA/RGBs Multiviewer
That's a good question. It most certainly doesn't support 240p through composite or S-Video. Gives me a reason to break out my IN1508 and do something with it.Fudoh wrote:sounds like a plan. I don't know how the IN1508 will handle the 240p input through component, but for $40 + shipping for the Extron it's worth a try I guess. Fun project
Re: Lag-Free VGA/RGBs Multiviewer
Seems like the Dido Jr would be better suited for this job--although a little bit slower.
We apologise for the inconvenience
Re: Lag-Free VGA/RGBs Multiviewer
The secondary input on the Dido Jr is just s-video, so you'd have to convert RGB or component to s-video before using the Dido. The Dido Pro has two DVI-I inputs, but it's hard to find one.
Looking into it, I guess the Extron MGP units should be able to display two progressive sources.
Looking into it, I guess the Extron MGP units should be able to display two progressive sources.
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HalHawkins
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:51 pm
Re: Lag-Free VGA/RGBs Multiviewer
Looks like the RGB Spectrum Quadview can accept RGB 15khz sources and output the same (Horizontal scan rate 12 kHz to 125 kHz)Fudoh wrote:The secondary input on the Dido Jr is just s-video, so you'd have to convert RGB or component to s-video before using the Dido. The Dido Pro has two DVI-I inputs, but it's hard to find one.
Looking into it, I guess the Extron MGP units should be able to display two progressive sources.
Unless I'm reading this wrong
https://www.rgb.com/sites/default/files ... _Rev02.pdf
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HalHawkins
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:51 pm
Re: Lag-Free VGA/RGBs Multiviewer
Are you referring to the MGP 462?Fudoh wrote:Looking into it, I guess the Extron MGP units should be able to display two progressive sources.
Re: Lag-Free VGA/RGBs Multiviewer
You're right. For some reason, I remembered two inputs. Chaining two units will work, but that could get expensive.Fudoh wrote:The secondary input on the Dido Jr is just s-video, so you'd have to convert RGB or component to s-video before using the Dido. The Dido Pro has two DVI-I inputs, but it's hard to find one.
Looking into it, I guess the Extron MGP units should be able to display two progressive sources.
Didn't Extron make some inexpensive multiviewers for security monitors? Those might be an option--although they might not handle 240p properly.
Looks like the C2-750 is the only affordable (stand-alone) machine I own that can do this. A newer digital signage processor is what OP really wants, but those are not cheap.
We apologise for the inconvenience
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HalHawkins
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Re: Lag-Free VGA/RGBs Multiviewer
I think the Extron PIP 422 might be an option. It doesnt do RGBs but it does componentorange808 wrote:You're right. For some reason, I remembered two inputs. Chaining two units will work, but that could get expensive.Fudoh wrote:The secondary input on the Dido Jr is just s-video, so you'd have to convert RGB or component to s-video before using the Dido. The Dido Pro has two DVI-I inputs, but it's hard to find one.
Looking into it, I guess the Extron MGP units should be able to display two progressive sources.
Didn't Extron make some inexpensive multiviewers for security monitors? Those might be an option--although they might not handle 240p properly.
Looks like the C2-750 is the only affordable (stand-alone) machine I own that can do this. A newer digital signage processor is what OP really wants, but those are not cheap.
Re: Lag-Free VGA/RGBs Multiviewer
The PIP 422 is SD-only, so you'd run both sources through it's deinterlacing engine and you have no advantage over the IN1508. The MGP units accept two ED/HD sources.
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HalHawkins
- Posts: 26
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Re: Lag-Free VGA/RGBs Multiviewer
But I wouldn't need to use line doublers like with the IN1508 for either consoles correct? I'm not looking to upscale. Just get PIP/PBP for 2x 240p consoles on a CRT monitor that can do 15khz/31khzFudoh wrote:The PIP 422 is SD-only, so you'd run both sources through it's deinterlacing engine and you have no advantage over the IN1508. The MGP units accept two ED/HD sources.
Re: Lag-Free VGA/RGBs Multiviewer
If cost is no object, then most if not all video mixers (as you'd use for live production) should support this sort of thing. You'd set it to a wipe transition and then just leave the fader at 50%. For composite video and VGA support, you'd be mostly looking at used products, where they might be quite cheap, though you can still find modern mixers with composite and VGA support.
They're not going to be lag-free, however. They don't necessarily have a ton of lag, since they're intended for live video, but there's some lag required to buffer at least one field or frame from each input so that they can all be synchronised, plus probably some amount of processing lag.
They're not going to be lag-free, however. They don't necessarily have a ton of lag, since they're intended for live video, but there's some lag required to buffer at least one field or frame from each input so that they can all be synchronised, plus probably some amount of processing lag.
Re: Lag-Free VGA/RGBs Multiviewer
it's as you stated yourself above: one through a XRGB and the other one using a transcoder (like the HD Retrovision cables).But I wouldn't need to use line doublers like with the IN1508 for either consoles correct?
I know. I wouldn't try to go for 15khz output. Something like the PIP422 would take two 15khz inputs and output one 15khz 480i image for you, but scaling from SD to SD isn't exactly great. If you go for a 31khz 480p output which puts the whole scaling into a progressive domain, you're much more likely to get usable results.I'm not looking to upscale. Just get PIP/PBP for 2x 240p consoles on a CRT monitor that can do 15khz/31khz
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mikejmoffitt
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- Location: Tokyo, Japan
Re: Lag-Free VGA/RGBs Multiviewer
A multiviewer without compromise here is not possible. Your two 240p sources are not going to be perfectly in sync, and are not in the same clock domain. To do this laglessly and without framerate conversion would imply that the multiviewer's output is synchronized to one of the 240p sources, but it can not be synchronized to both at the same time.
If you find a device, you will find yourself settling for framerate conversion (a bit of lag and stutter) or tearing.
If you find a device, you will find yourself settling for framerate conversion (a bit of lag and stutter) or tearing.