NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread

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Nodoyuna
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Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread

Post by Nodoyuna »

Yes, I can access to the OSD pressing "PROCEED" on the remote

My question is if there is any service mode, like on PVM monitors
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aaronmjr
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Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread

Post by aaronmjr »

This might be old news, but this user "rewrite" compiled an entire replacement capacitor list for the standard XM29 here:

https://www.arcade-projects.com/forums/ ... post167732

CT920B2500
http://www.digikey.com/short/pr19vr

PCB-POWER
www.digikey.com/short/pr1fmw

D9850 PCB
www.digikey.com/short/pr19bm

PCB-DEFL-SUB
www.digikey.com/short/pr192n

PCB-FBT
www.digikey.com/short/pr193c

PCB-AUDIO
www.digikey.com/short/pr19z7

Input PCB

www.digikey.com/short/pr19hr

PCB-HV
www.digikey.com/short/pr19jb

Neckboard
www.digikey.com/short/pr1972



Entire monitor:
www.digikey.com/short/pr1fr2
xga
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Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread

Post by xga »

Nodoyuna wrote:Yes, I can access to the OSD pressing "PROCEED" on the remote

My question is if there is any service mode, like on PVM monitors
No, apart from the normal menu, there isn't. What are you wanting to adjust?
Nodoyuna
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Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread

Post by Nodoyuna »

There is a bit of barrel effect on the screen
xga
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Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread

Post by xga »

Nodoyuna wrote:There is a bit of barrel effect on the screen
If by "barrel effect" you mean horizontal linearity issue, then I don't believe that it's possible to adjust it by the menu. It could be a fault in the horizontal linearity compensation circuit on the horizontal deflection board (perhaps caps that have gone out of spec).
Nodoyuna
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Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread

Post by Nodoyuna »

xga wrote:
Nodoyuna wrote:There is a bit of barrel effect on the screen
If by "barrel effect" you mean horizontal linearity issue, then I don't believe that it's possible to adjust it by the menu. It could be a fault in the horizontal linearity compensation circuit on the horizontal deflection board (perhaps caps that have gone out of spec).
Thanks for the info, I think I won't mess with the monitor's circuits :)

BTW, the monitor does have composite and S-Video connections on the back, does this means it does support 15KHz signals? Is it possible to connect RGBs devices to the BNC inputs?

Thanks in advance
MKL
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Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread

Post by MKL »

Barrel effect is corrected with pincushion adjustment: ( ) <--> | | <--> ) (
Nodoyuna
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Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread

Post by Nodoyuna »

MKL wrote:Barrel effect is corrected with pincushion adjustment: ( ) <--> | | <--> ) (
Thanks, I think I've seen that setting on the remote. I'll try it tonight :)
Sefirosu789
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Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread

Post by Sefirosu789 »

Hi everyone,

As some may know these NEC monitors have horribly loud fans, unfortunately when replacing them with modern quieter fans, the monitor does not power on. I tried to install some new ones myself...

Firstly the monitor I’m using is an NEC XP29+. I Used a similar wiring technique to the Sony BKM 41/42HD fan mod, as shown here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=59139

After bridging the sensor to ground wire on the board header end, I also added a DC buck converter in the middle to adjust the voltage/fan speed. Shown here:
Image

It has been a year or so since I tried this so my memory is a bit hazy but I recall that the results weren’t great. From memory, the monitor would only start if the voltage was 10V~. Therefore, powering it on at 5V (low fan speed/quieter) wasn't possible, and of course I wasn't going to want to adjust the DC converters with a screwdriver after every time I use it! So I just put the old fans back and said whatever and hope someone else can come up with a better solution.

The only person that I have seen successfully get new fans to work is the guy in this post: http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/vi ... hp?t=56769
After speaking to him, his solution in the end was to: "I made a little microcontroller that faked the drive signal so the monitor wouldn't complain, and then used a simple resistor and low speed fan." But he also said that he had lost the code for it but it could maybe work with a 555 timer too.

An easier solution he shared was this:

Image

"There are three fans. Keep one the original fan (on the right) and two replacements. Use diodes to drop the voltage so that they run a bit slower. Standard 1N4003 or higher are fine. You could also use a 5V regulator if you want to go that low but the original fan needs >10V.

The middle and left fans are low speed Panaflos. You can use any quiet low speed fan. The key is to take the RPM sense line (yellow) from the one remaining original fan and split it so that it feeds the other two as well."

Update: I removed the DC buck converters, omitted the diodes & used a 5-12V switching power supply to control the speed. I also found out that you don't need to keep the original fan - 3 replacements work just fine.
Last edited by Sefirosu789 on Mon May 03, 2021 1:35 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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aaronmjr
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Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread

Post by aaronmjr »

Is yours the only XM29 you've ever used? I've heard other people complain about the fan noise, and I'm wondering if some are louder than others. The fans on mine have never bothered me even a bit. Even when I have all 4 running together it's been fine. I wish you luck on your journey though, sounds like the fan noise is a real problem.
Sefirosu789
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Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread

Post by Sefirosu789 »

aaronmjr wrote:Is yours the only XM29 you've ever used? I've heard other people complain about the fan noise, and I'm wondering if some are louder than others. The fans on mine have never bothered me even a bit. Even when I have all 4 running together it's been fine. I wish you luck on your journey though, sounds like the fan noise is a real problem.
No, I have two XP29+ and both are as loud as each other. However, just from seeing pictures and reading online it seems that the XM & XP's use similar types of fans or at least both have the problem that the fans can't be replaced simply. So I don't think one of the models should be much louder/quieter than the other.

I think that the reason for some people complain about the fan noise vs. some people not caring is most likely simply down to:
-1. How close you sit to the monitor. for example, I'm in a small room and sit pretty close whereas I can imagine if I had the monitors further away, it wouldn't bother me one bit.
-2. How loud you have the volume/or if you have ext. speakers. for example, if I put the volume up a bit high, you can barely hear them but I personally like to have the sound more on the quiet side.
-3. Lastly if the fans are clogged up with dust, it definitely makes them louder. I had this problem with one of mine when I first got it as the fans were full of dust. After removing the dust from the fans and inside the monitor, it did make a difference.

Thanks. Unfortunately I won't be trying to give replacement fans any more tries as the project is out of my scope of expertise, so hopefully one day an electrical engineer or someone with the knowledge to make something up along with instructions on how to do it can chime in and give it a go. That is why I made the post to try and bring some attention to it.

It's a shame as the loud fans are, in my opinion, the only downside to this monitor if one is like me and cares about the noise of them. Otherwise I really love the monitor!

Oh and the plastic casing is not ideal but it is fairly sturdy just gets scratched a lil' easy. Although when I think about it, metal casing would weigh way to much and probably isn't needed.
crazedbinary
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Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread

Post by crazedbinary »

Hope everyone is staying safe out there. I recently came into the possession of an XM29 that needs a few adjustments. I could really use the service menu supplement to troubleshoot. Did anyone ever get scanned copy of the PG-2740 supplement? I have already made one pot adjustments for width (horizontal) but need to adjust some other geometry areas and could sure use a map.

Thanks in advance -

Crazed
Cannonballs
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Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread

Post by Cannonballs »

Has anyone tilted the yoke to adjust tilt issues?
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aaronmjr
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Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread

Post by aaronmjr »

crazedbinary wrote:I could really use the service menu supplement to troubleshoot. Did anyone ever get scanned copy of the PG-2740 supplement?
I sent it to a member here about 2 years ago but unfortunately he hasn't finished compiling it. I found a company that will do non-destructive scanning and can make a searchable PDF out of it, and plan on sending it to them this week. I'll make sure this thread has a copy right away when I get it back.
crazedbinary
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Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread

Post by crazedbinary »

aaronmjr wrote:
crazedbinary wrote:I could really use the service menu supplement to troubleshoot. Did anyone ever get scanned copy of the PG-2740 supplement?
I sent it to a member here about 2 years ago but unfortunately he hasn't finished compiling it. I found a company that will do non-destructive scanning and can make a searchable PDF out of it, and plan on sending it to them this week. I'll make sure this thread has a copy right away when I get it back.
Thanks - Happy to donate a bit if you need any help with costs feel free to PM me.
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MegaMan
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Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread

Post by MegaMan »

Does anyone have a PDF copy of the XM29 Plus (XM2960) service manual? It appears the link seems to be dead. I would greatly appreciate it, since I'm trying to put a cap list and order together soon to repair mine. :)
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MegaMan
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Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread

Post by MegaMan »

Hoping someone still has a copy of the NEC XM29 Plus (XM2960) service manual... :)

Please post a link or PM me if you do. Much appreciated!
NightSprinter
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Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread

Post by NightSprinter »

Nodoyuna wrote:
xga wrote:
Nodoyuna wrote:There is a bit of barrel effect on the screen
If by "barrel effect" you mean horizontal linearity issue, then I don't believe that it's possible to adjust it by the menu. It could be a fault in the horizontal linearity compensation circuit on the horizontal deflection board (perhaps caps that have gone out of spec).
Thanks for the info, I think I won't mess with the monitor's circuits :)

BTW, the monitor does have composite and S-Video connections on the back, does this means it does support 15KHz signals? Is it possible to connect RGBs devices to the BNC inputs?

Thanks in advance
Yes, both the BNC inputs, as well as the Mac DA-15 and HD15/VGA sockets accept 15KHz (at least, on my XM2960). Just make note of the model you have, as some like mine will not support the HScan range between 16.25 and 31KHz (so mid-res arcade games, EGA graphics cards transcoded to analog RGBHV output, and some Japanese computers like the NEC PC-8801 will need a linedoubler).
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aaronmjr
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Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread

Post by aaronmjr »

Do we not have a Mitsubishi thread? I can make one if we don't and try to compile some of the info and fixes people have posted. I picked this up the other day.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=66364
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Crayfish
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Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread

Post by Crayfish »

Two NEC XP 37" Pro monitors (with remotes) coming up for sale UK (East Anglia).

Hi guys. I bought these two NEC XP37s sometime last year. I had hoped these were the monitors I had dreamed of, but found out later that these are the XP not XM models, so they are VGA (not 15kHZ). I kept them anyway and hoped to try the 120hz trick or just use them for 31kHZ stuff but didn't yet have enough space to set them up at home. Anyway, due to the current financial situation, I am sadly going to have to sell them, so giving the members here a heads up before they go on ebay.

They were demonstrated when the seller dropped them off. As he said, one has slightly less contrast and the other shows incorrect geometry until it warms up, but has good picture when it does. Having the two meant possibly combining the best parts of each* Both come with the original remotes too. Also shown is a 34" VGA monitor laying on a folded blanket above them*

They have stored in a dry garage and been each wrapped in 75m of cling film since the day they were demod working. They should still be perfectly dry inside, but I do not want to take the chance demonstrating them before bringing them inside for a week or so to evaporate any moisture that may have got inside, but at the moment I am unable to get them from storage here to the small flat where I live.

Anyway, if anyone is interested, comment or PM me and I will start considering offers for the two (plus the 34" if u want that also) before I put them up on ebay. *I am an experienced CRT and ebay seller who has dealt with a few members here who I'm sure can vouch for me. Also search my other posts in the group to see my history*
*I would also consider a straight swap with for both / all three for a large (over 27") 15kHZ Pro CRT (Nec XM, Mitsubishi Megaview etc)
Image
Last edited by Crayfish on Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Josh128
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Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread

Post by Josh128 »

Wow, 37" !? Those must be things of beauty. I can imagine Dreamcast VGA or Gamecube VGA on those buggers.

Also, was thinking about since 240p120 is possible on 31KHz CRTs, I was wondering if a 384p90 would also be possible. It would enable a VGA monitor to give perfect resolution with 3x frame rate for 30fps games like most of the Atari Voodoo games. I may try it with CRU and see what happens.
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Josh128
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Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread

Post by Josh128 »

Well, looks like 512x384 @90 fps is indeed possible, and works without a hitch. I havent tried it yet, but I suspect 384p120 will be possible also as it is a 48KHz mode. This would allow for all medium res games, not just 30 fps to be displayed at "native" resolutions on a 48KHz capable VGA monitor as well from emulators on capable PCs.

As far as the 90fps mode, I tried the 30 fps Streets of Rage on it, and it works exactly as I expected-- perfect frame pacing. Cant tell it from the real thing other than the size.

Image

Image
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lalilulelo
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Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread

Post by lalilulelo »

So, I'm still having some problems with my XV29 Plus. One idea I have is that it could be because of overheating. From what I've heard, all of the other versions of the XM/XP29/37/etc have a built-in fan, and the monitor won't even power on without the fan. My monitor, however, doesn't appear to have a fan at all, and yet it still powers on and displays an image. I wonder if this model ever had a fan or not. Either way, it seems like it might not be a bad idea to add a fan to it, since overheating could be the cause of my issue. What do you think? The other issue is, if I mount a fan in the monitor, where do I put it? If I put it in the wrong place, it could do more harm than good.

Also, the last time I looked inside the monitor, I noticed a number of pots on the tube and on the video I/O board, and one button. The pots on the tube I think are for adjusting the convergence and stuff like that. I'm not sure what the one on the board is for. I have no idea what the button on the video board is for, and I'm not going to press it without knowing what it does. If I knew what all of these things do, it could be very helpful.
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Shogun
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Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread

Post by Shogun »

I remember reading back in the day on how to do a fan mod to bypass the monitor not turning on. I imagine that mod could be used to not have any fans?
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lalilulelo
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Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread

Post by lalilulelo »

Shogun wrote:I remember reading back in the day on how to do a fan mod to bypass the monitor not turning on. I imagine that mod could be used to not have any fans?
I guess that's possible, but I don't see any obvious signs that the monitor's been modified.
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aaronmjr
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Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread

Post by aaronmjr »

lalilulelo wrote:So, I'm still having some problems with my XV29 Plus. One idea I have is that it could be because of overheating. From what I've heard, all of the other versions of the XM/XP29/37/etc have a built-in fan, and the monitor won't even power on without the fan. My monitor, however, doesn't appear to have a fan at all, and yet it still powers on and displays an image. I wonder if this model ever had a fan or not. Either way, it seems like it might not be a bad idea to add a fan to it, since overheating could be the cause of my issue. What do you think? The other issue is, if I mount a fan in the monitor, where do I put it? If I put it in the wrong place, it could do more harm than good.

Also, the last time I looked inside the monitor, I noticed a number of pots on the tube and on the video I/O board, and one button. The pots on the tube I think are for adjusting the convergence and stuff like that. I'm not sure what the one on the board is for. I have no idea what the button on the video board is for, and I'm not going to press it without knowing what it does. If I knew what all of these things do, it could be very helpful.
Why don't you point a fan at the back of your monitor while you;re running it without the back of the case on? If it behaves, then it might be a heat related issue. As for the stuff on the board, I feel like that stuff is typically labeled somehow. Does it say anything next to the pots or button? Can you post a picture?
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lalilulelo
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Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread

Post by lalilulelo »

aaronmjr wrote:Why don't you point a fan at the back of your monitor while you;re running it without the back of the case on? If it behaves, then it might be a heat related issue. As for the stuff on the board, I feel like that stuff is typically labeled somehow. Does it say anything next to the pots or button? Can you post a picture?
I can't really test it like that with the back removed, because there are sometimes long periods of time when the problem doesn't happen. Speaking of that - I'd like to be able to test the monitor with the back removed (for other purposes) but the back of the tube seems to tilt downward slightly when the back is removed. Normally it's held in place with screws. It's probably not safe to power on the monitor when the tube (the rear part of the tube, I mean) is tilted down, is it? Thinking about it now, I'm not actually sure which part of it tilts down, but I thought it was the tube itself.

I have thought about aiming a fan at it from outside the monitor - it has openings all over the back and sides that let air through. I'm not sure how effective the fan would be at that distance, though. Ideally the fan should be aimed with the rear facing the monitor, to pull air out of it, right?

I don't remember what it says next to the pots or button, but I think it was just a series of letters and numbers, like "CN21" or something like that. I might open the monitor up again soon, and if I do I'll take pictures of that.

Another thing I've been thinking about is that the problem could be due to a connection issue with the front inputs. I already kinda suspected this, but recently I noticed that the monitor seems to have some damage (overheating of some type) on the pins that are directly connected to the front RCA inputs. Interestingly, the front VGA connection doesn't seem to have that. The front inputs wiggle around a little when you touch them, so I thought maybe a loose connection could be the cause of the problem. Another thing that makes me think that is that sometimes moving the monitor or the shelf it's sitting on can alter or eliminate the issue. The only problem with that idea is that I stuck a scope inside the monitor to look at the other side of the RCA connectors, and didn't see anything noticeably wrong with them. It's possible that the whole board that the connectors are sitting on is slightly loose - but in that case gravity is pulling it down, and all of the components that could potentially cause interference are above it - so this doesn't make a lot of sense. One thing I'd like to try the next time I open up the monitor is to look at the board from underneath the monitor and see if it wiggles at the same time that the connections wiggle. It'd probably be good to observe the same thing looking at it from inside the monitor, too.

EDIT: Another new development with this monitor is I've been able to get my MVS working with it. It's going through an Extron PA250. I think an LM1881 would also work, but I don't have a usable one of those currently. I got a new supergun too; my previous one had issues. The new one seems to work fine. The cable I'm using seems to have an issue though, so I'll have to fix that or get a new cable.
kel
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Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread

Post by kel »

Crayfish wrote:Two NEC XP 37" Pro monitors (with remotes) coming up for sale UK (East Anglia).

Hi guys. I bought these two NEC XP37s sometime last year. I had hoped these were the monitors I had dreamed of, but found out later that these are the XP not XM models, so they are VGA (not 15kHZ). I kept them anyway and hoped to try the 120hz trick or just use them for 31kHZ stuff but didn't yet have enough space to set them up at home. Anyway, due to the current financial situation, I am sadly going to have to sell them, so giving the members here a heads up before they go on ebay.

They were demonstrated when the seller dropped them off. As he said, one has slightly less contrast and the other shows incorrect geometry until it warms up, but has good picture when it does. Having the two meant possibly combining the best parts of each* Both come with the original remotes too. Also shown is a 34" VGA monitor laying on a folded blanket above them*

They have stored in a dry garage and been each wrapped in 75m of cling film since the day they were demod working. They should still be perfectly dry inside, but I do not want to take the chance demonstrating them before bringing them inside for a week or so to evaporate any moisture that may have got inside, but at the moment I am unable to get them from storage here to the small flat where I live.

Anyway, if anyone is interested, comment or PM me and I will start considering offers for the two (plus the 34" if u want that also) before I put them up on ebay. *I am an experienced CRT and ebay seller who has dealt with a few members here who I'm sure can vouch for me. Also search my other posts in the group to see my history*
*I would also consider a straight swap with for both / all three for a large (over 27") 15kHZ Pro CRT (Nec XM, Mitsubishi Megaview etc)
Image
I have one of these monitors and they are great for 480p upto 720p. Any higher and the image starts to become blurry. They also look great with 480i through a retrotink2x with smoothing on and lagless too. For 240p it looks good for 3d consoles like the PSX and N64 through the retrotink2x with smoothing but falls short with any 240p 2d games or consoles, which look too soft through the retrotink2x with smoothing or not quite right through any upscaler or linedoubler like the OSSC. I would have more for backup if it wasn't for lack of space or money as I can bet they will go for a pretty penny. Great monitors for what they can do, just a pity that they don't do 15khz natively or they would be perfect.
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lalilulelo
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Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread

Post by lalilulelo »

I have a new idea about a way to fix my monitor. I've noticed that there are several places where solder points have overheated and left residue behind. I was previously thinking that whatever caused this is the cause of the issue, but now I'm starting to think that the points are damaged because of something that happened before I bought it - and this damage is actually the cause of the issue. I see this in multiple places throughout the monitor, so it's difficult to tell where the problem is actually located. It's possible that all of these locations need to be repaired.

However, my experience with the monitor leads me to think that the problem is something very simple, and looking inside I see one area that stands out: the composite and audio inputs on the front panel. This is just a guess, but this being the cause of the issue makes sense for a lot of reasons - I won't explain all of it, but what it essentially comes down to is the fact that I already had reason to believe the issue was related to the inputs, likely the front inputs, and the fact that the solder points for these inputs seem particularly bad compared to anywhere else in the monitor. So, I think the solution is just to repair those solder points.

I've never done anything like this before, but from what I understand it doesn't seem like it should be too difficult. In fact, it might not even be necessary to totally repair the solder points - I noticed that some of the burned solder was dripping to the side of one of the inputs. It's possible that this or something like it created a bridge between the connections, which is what causes the issue. So just cleaning away some of this residue with a knife and a little alcohol or something might be all I have to do to fix it.

Some time in the next week or so I want to take a look at the bottom of the monitor to try to assess whether my idea could actually work. I'll probably take pictures too. If it looks like I can fix it just by scraping off the residue with a knife, then I'll probably do that. If not, I may want to do some more testing to get an idea of how this'll work before I actually attempt it.
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aaronmjr
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Re: NEC XM/XP 29/37 Pro/Xtra Thread

Post by aaronmjr »

Can you post pictures of what you're talking about?
Last edited by aaronmjr on Wed May 06, 2020 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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