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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:34 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1823
tongshadow wrote:
I made a thread about 480i/240p issues with this machine, but didnt get many replies, so Im hoping that someone more familiar with the XRGB-3 could help me better in this thread.

The issue is basically the video signal being lost during said transitions and it takes time to resync and get a picture. Sometimes I dont even get a picture at all!
Any solution or way to remedy this?
It's pretty annoying on PS1 games that use 480i menus/fmv movies and switch to 240p for gameplay.

Also happens with 480i/480p PS2 games.

I'm using B1 Mode and the VGA output.

Yes, it's absolutely annoying; but, if your video output is ultimately ending up as HDMI into your display, you're not going to be able to get around the video drops without some sort of seamless switcher, presentation switcher, or other scaler that will output at a given resolution/framerate regardless of input, which has its own problems, like significant added lag, forced framerate conversion, and 240p is treated like 480i and force-deinterlaced. Unfortunately, it seems like none of the popular video processors will handle those transitions without dropping sync (Except maybe the DVDOs? Someone will have to correct me on that).

Your alternatives are currently to either play these games on a CRT or wait for some kind of HDMI mod with scaling functionality, like the UltraHDMI, that will seamlessly handle those 240p/480i transitions.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:38 pm 



Joined: 07 Jan 2017
Posts: 176
Fudoh wrote:
And into what display ? Or are you using a secondary processor ?

Directly into my display. It's a BenQ RL2755HM, and it pretty much accepts any resolution I throw at it since it's also a monitor. it also has the pretty neat Smart Scaling fuction that lets me scale the picture in anyway I want, I managed to get a perfect doubled integer scale for the XRGB-3's 480p output. 2D 240p look amazing, specially with scanlines. :D

@nmalinoski

The DVDO VP30 can handle the transitions just fine because it thinks 240p and 480i are the same thing, but I lose so much in quality that it's not really worth.

I thought the XRGB-3 wouldnt have this issue, but apparently it's because it's not as bad as the Framemeister. If it cant be fixed, then it's fine, I really like the machine anyways and that's a very minor thing.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:11 pm 


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It's really up to your display. In B1 mode the drop when switching from 240p to 480i and vice versa is ultra-fast - basically a field or a frame depending. And the XRGB-3 certainly doesn't lose the source signal when doing so. On the monitors and TVs I've used the XRGB with this wasn't a issue. Yes, you usually get a resync, but that's more a flash than anything else.


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 Post subject: GDM-FW900 Dreamcast
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:28 pm 


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Location: Birmingham, England
I’m trying to get the Dreamcast working with my CRT monitor GDM-FW900.

I have tried VGA straight to monitor and also through the XRGB-3 Din2 input.

I keep getting No Signal error on the monitor.

The hardware is set up as follows - Dreamcast > Hanzo > XRGB-3 > Monitor.

I have tried RGB and VGA on the Hanzo. I have also tried B1 and B0 modes on the XRGB-3.

Do I need something in the chain for it to sync? Any idea what settings I should have on the XRGB-3?

I have it currently set to Din2 RGBHV, I think that’s right?


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:34 am 



Joined: 07 Jan 2017
Posts: 176
Can you at least see the OSD?
If not, cycle through the standard resolutions by pressing "Mode"


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:43 am 


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Location: Birmingham, England
tongshadow wrote:
Can you at least see the OSD?
If not, cycle through the standard resolutions by pressing "Mode"


Hi,

I can see the OSD in B0 mode just a blue screen. In B1 mode as soon as I set the Din2 input to RGBHV the monitor says no signal.

It’s like the monitor can’t accept the RGBHV signal? It’s a CRT monitor though, should
I be combining the sync?


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:58 pm 



Joined: 07 Jan 2017
Posts: 176
Sounds like it's the Hanzo since you cant connect it directly. First, make sure your Hanzo's switch is set to VGA mode, and not RGB (for games that dont support VGA).

In B1 mode the XRGB is just transcoding the input into a RGBHV output through VGA, which is already what the Hanzo does. So you're effectively just passing through a 640x480 signal, and your monitor shouldnt have any issues dealing with this source.

The XRGB-3 is kinda quirky, so try these:
Options -> Resolution -> Set to 640x480
Options -> V-Sync lock -> Off


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:40 pm 


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tongshadow wrote:
Sounds like it's the Hanzo since you cant connect it directly. First, make sure your Hanzo's switch is set to VGA mode, and not RGB (for games that dont support VGA).

In B1 mode the XRGB is just transcoding the input into a RGBHV output through VGA, which is already what the Hanzo does. So you're effectively just passing through a 640x480 signal, and your monitor shouldnt have any issues dealing with this source.

The XRGB-3 is kinda quirky, so try these:
Options -> Resolution -> Set to 640x480
Options -> V-Sync lock -> Off


I have tried them but monitor still says no signal, it seems like the monitor doesn’t like the signal coming in or my Hanzo faulty.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:03 pm 



Joined: 07 Jan 2017
Posts: 176
For now, try B0 Mode and different resolutions.
If you dont get a picture from the console at all, then it might just be the Hanzo or even your Dreamcast (though I think it's unlikely). And if you still have composite cables, try using them on the XRGB-3 as well.

Troubleshooting like this is the only way to find the faulty component. It could be even that your monitor accepts only oddball widescreen resolutions.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:47 pm 



Joined: 07 Jan 2017
Posts: 176
oh, I also found this on the XRGB-3 wiki, this might just be your issue!

Quote:
Another example : PC or Dreamcast + VGA Box connected to PC IN

Sometimes, VGA/DVI input will only sync correctly in mode B1 if there's another AV source connected to the XRGB-3 at the same time. To avoid this problem follow these steps:

1) Connect a non-VGA source to the XRGB-3 and power it on

2) Connect the VGA source (PC or Dreamcast) to PC IN and power it on

3) Press the PC/AV button


A Dreamcast with a Video/VGA-Box can be used for the initial sync without the need for other source, using the following method:

1) Power the Dreamcast using Composite or S-Video output and let the XRGB-3 sync

2) Power-cycle the Dreamcast quickly, switching it to VGA output

3) Press the PC/AV button

For some unknown reason, H and V sync polarity may need to be reversed in some displays. The PC Match feature can also help to achieve a stable picture.


http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?title=XRGB-3


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:38 pm 


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There's also an issue in which the selected output resolution seems to affect the output timing ALTHOUGH you're running in B1 mode. So you should make sure either VGA or XGA is selected.

BUT I owned a FW900 and I had no issues whatsoever running my DC on it directly, so if your Hanzo connected to your Sony doesn't work, it might a problem with your Hanzo. As posted above: make sure you have a VGA compatible game running and that your Hanzo is set to 31khz RGBHV output.

In B0 you should be able to switch to a higher resolution, like 1080p or 1200p.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:17 pm 


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Location: Birmingham, England
Thanks for the help guys.

Yes in B1 640x480 is definitely selected.

I’m going to get hold of some composite cables from my friend to rule out the Dreamcast being faulty. I do get sound and Dino Crisis/Tony Hawks 2 both boot up as I can tell from the controller display and sound output. So I think the Dreamcast is fine.

Fudoh, you said your FW900 ran VGA direct, makes me think the Hanzo is faulty.

You reckon I’m better off just buying the Toro? I could put it into the front SCART then, I have a 5 port SCART switcher?


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:21 pm 


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Quote:
Fudoh, you said your FW900 ran VGA direct, makes me think the Hanzo is faulty.
You reckon I’m better off just buying the Toro? I could put it into the front SCART then, I have a 5 port SCART switcher?

back then I was using an original Sega VGA box. You don't really want to run your DC's output through the XRGB-3. And the JP21 input on the XRGB doesn't accept 31khz RGB to begin with.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 8:57 am 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 339
Does anyone have any photos of an xrgb 3 outputting 15khz on a crt? Having a hard time finding examples.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:27 pm 


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I didn't take pictures, and I don't have XRGB-3 anymore. But don't waste your time, it looks horrible, trust me.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 6:07 pm 


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It's true.... it look dookie
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 4:49 am 



Joined: 19 Mar 2017
Posts: 339
Still find it a bit puzzling there don’t seem to be any photos available.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:29 am 



Joined: 07 Jan 2017
Posts: 176
Well it's meant for VGA CRT monitors, and progressive sources (240p/480p) look great with the XRGB-3. I dont like 480i however, it's visually very far from what a SDTV does.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:02 pm 


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I bought the XRGB-3 bobinshadow mentioned earlier in the thread. It works great for my use case (old shit on VGA CRT) but am I safe to assume that if it's a chip error that it isn't really fixable?
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:06 pm 


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There once was a XRGB-3 firmware that use a 3rd bank for an additional feature set of the firmware. Might be worth tracking down to see if the B2 firmware bank is working. But then again, you're not loosing much from not having B0 available. I dare to say that the only situation in which B0 was really shining (and still is) is with use of a PSP (272 cropped to 270 and line-quadrupled to 1080p).


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:49 pm 


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If I end up going for an RGB cable for PS1 should I get the CSync one or would Luma be okay?
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:06 pm 



Joined: 19 Jul 2017
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Steamflogger Boss wrote:
If I end up going for an RGB cable for PS1 should I get the CSync one or would Luma be okay?

Generally, sync-on-luma is all you need. For consoles that don't offer CSync natively, like the PS1, unless you're intending to connect your console to pro-grade AV equipment like a PVM/BVM or various Extron/Kramer/Creston gear, a cable with a sync stripper is an unnecessary added cost, and can cause issues when chained with other sync strippers, like the one embedded in the newer gscartsw models.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 6:15 pm 


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nmalinoski wrote:
Steamflogger Boss wrote:
If I end up going for an RGB cable for PS1 should I get the CSync one or would Luma be okay?

Generally, sync-on-luma is all you need. For consoles that don't offer CSync natively, like the PS1, unless you're intending to connect your console to pro-grade AV equipment like a PVM/BVM or various Extron/Kramer/Creston gear, a cable with a sync stripper is an unnecessary added cost, and can cause issues when chained with other sync strippers, like the one embedded in the newer gscartsw models.


Luma sounds fine then, thanks. Just looking to go XRGB-3 into VGA CRT monitor.
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:03 am 



Joined: 07 Jan 2017
Posts: 176
Do it, it's the best and most simple setup for getting old consoles on VGA CRTs.
If you cant find one, an OSSC is just as good imo.


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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:05 am 


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tongshadow wrote:
Do it, it's the best and most simple setup for getting old consoles on VGA CRTs.
If you cant find one, an OSSC is just as good imo.


Got one from a member of this forum for a good price. Right now I'm using svideo for ps1 and it looks pretty damn good tbh.

Didn't want to go ossc due to having to use an adapter for analog out.
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:02 am 



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What made you not want to spend the extra $20?
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 Post subject: Re: XRGB-3
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:38 am 


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I already stated that, not sure how I could make it more clear. I didn't want to convert HDMI to VGA for the output. There is also the SVideo input..
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