XRGB-mini Framemeister

[GraphicNoise]

Hi everybody, I'm back on the topic after almost 2 years of having fun with the Framemeister without any issues.

Sadly yesterday a really annoying one appeared though:
Although the XRGB isn't perfectly suited for that, I also used it for playing my PAL GameCube via RGB (COMP as SYNC by Retrogamingcables) as the quality you can get is still better than what my HDTV's internal upscaler produces.

Is the cable specifically designed for the PAL GameCube, with a 75ohm resistor to ground and 220uF capacitor on the Composite video line?

Yes, it's the predecessor of this one (well, I don't know specifically about the resistor and capacitator, sadly): https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/SUP ... CART-CABLE

Retrogamingcables only sells specifically designed cables. It also worked perfectly fine for the last 2 years. What bugs me is that the issue also appears with my PS2 when I run it in 576i via RGB, while PS1 and Saturn work perfectly fine. It doesn't seem connected to the RGB cable

In my theory it could either be the Scart to XRGB adapter or the XRGB itself, but it's weird that it only happens with 576i signals. I'll try out with my Dreamcast in a few hours (it's case is currently getting bleached outside in the sun) to see how 480i works.

[gnlqkfdb777]

https://imgur.com/QGWGy5e
Recently I purchased an XRGB mini and found that when I run 480i rhythm games on the PS2 for streaming and recording purposes, the notes tremble like a photo, causing blurry problems. In the 240p rhythm game there is no problem. How can I solve this problem?

[jamisonia]

I recently bought a Super NT, and I'm sure me, like many of you are starting to find my HDMI ports at a premium. I'm not out... yet, but assuming this day will come soon; I decided to mess around with the HDMI ports on the XRGB in HDMI direct mode, and here's what I have to report!

The HDMI direct modes appear to at first glance to be a straight pass through. Most of the options in the menu are greyed out, and the ones that aren't don't actually seem to effect the picture. However; I did notice two things:

1. The HDMI Full vs Limited setting does change something. Full is on be default and the colors looked better to my eyes with full on.
2. The XRGB reports the input from my Super NT as 1080p60 60.00 hz RGB 8 bit. It reports the output as 1080p60 60.00 hz RGB 12 bit output.

Hmmm... my AVR reports the input from the XRGB as 36 bit color. It reports the input from my Super NT as 24 bit color.

Now this doesn't seem to make a visually difference to my eyes, but I thought it was worth reporting for anyone wanting to use their XRGB as an HDMI switch.

[PixelDharma]

I recently bought a Super NT, and I'm sure me, like many of you are starting to find my HDMI ports at a premium. I'm not out... yet, but assuming this day will come soon; I decided to mess around with the HDMI ports on the XRGB in HDMI direct mode, and here's what I have to report!

The HDMI direct modes appear to at first glance to be a straight pass through. Most of the options in the menu are greyed out, and the ones that aren't don't actually seem to effect the picture. However; I did notice two things:

1. The HDMI Full vs Limited setting does change something. Full is on be default and the colors looked better to my eyes with full on.
2. The XRGB reports the input from my Super NT as 1080p60 60.00 hz RGB 8 bit. It reports the output as 1080p60 60.00 hz RGB 12 bit output.

Hmmm... my AVR reports the input from the XRGB as 36 bit color. It reports the input from my Super NT as 24 bit color.

Now this doesn't seem to make a visually difference to my eyes, but I thought it was worth reporting for anyone wanting to use their XRGB as an HDMI switch.

Thanks for the tip on Full vs. Limited. I just started using the HDMI inputs in direct mode because I have run out of inputs elsewhere.

[K0rN b4LL]

They never did add a 1:1 HDMI passthrough did they?

They did at some point. I think it's called HDMI Direct in the settings. It works relatively well, but it will drop the PS4's picture from time to time unless you run it through an HDCP stripper first. To my knowledge no update ever fixed this. All the other HDMI sources I've put through it don't have that issue though.

Like legit 1:1 without a delay? I knew they kinda had one but was supposedly with a small bit of delay like a half frame or something.

Side question, do I need to get an sd card reader for my laptop to update it or can I somehow get the file on my phone (Note9) and use its sd card port?
*Yup, hooking the phone up to my laptop and putting the file onto the sd card through that worked fine.

[copy]

2. The XRGB reports the input from my Super NT as 1080p60 60.00 hz RGB 8 bit. It reports the output as 1080p60 60.00 hz RGB 12 bit output.

Hmmm... my AVR reports the input from the XRGB as 36 bit color. It reports the input from my Super NT as 24 bit color.

These are just different ways of indicating the same thing:

Super Nt: 8 bits per each color (R, G, B) = 24 bits total.

XRGB with Deep Color enabled: 12 bits per each color = 36 bits total.

[K0rN b4LL]

My screen is a bit off center for some reason. Doesn't hurt anything its just annoying. Which setting fixes this?

https://imgur.com/QiT2ITf

[jamisonia]

2. The XRGB reports the input from my Super NT as 1080p60 60.00 hz RGB 8 bit. It reports the output as 1080p60 60.00 hz RGB 12 bit output.

Hmmm... my AVR reports the input from the XRGB as 36 bit color. It reports the input from my Super NT as 24 bit color.

These are just different ways of indicating the same thing:

Super Nt: 8 bits per each color (R, G, B) = 24 bits total.

XRGB with Deep Color enabled: 12 bits per each color = 36 bits total.

This colorspace thing is starting to come real confusing! Thanks for letting me know.

[Guspaz]

The SNES only has 5-bits per channel of colour data, so I wouldn't worry about if you're displaying it with 8, 10, or 12 bits per channel.

[Jameson Rook]

Call me crazy, but I've been finding reasons to avoid using the Framemeister lately because I grew tired of how cumbersome it can be to use sometimes.

I mainly use it for PS1/PS2 games for over 2 years but I find it tiresome to fiddle with loading profiles and the remote overtime gets on my nerves on how cheap it feels, not to mention that it shares the same signal as my HDMI switcher, hence occasionally messing those two up.

I don't know if the hype has died over after two years but I now find myself preferring quick connectivity rather than visual accuracy and thus I just connect my PS2 over component directly to the TV and use a PS3 as a PS1 player (ugly as it is). I was wondering if there is anything resembling a quick plug and play? How does the OSSC fare in terms of ease of use?

[nmalinoski]

I don't know if the hype has died over after two years but I now find myself preferring quick connectivity rather than visual accuracy and thus I just connect my PS2 over component directly to the TV and use a PS3 as a PS1 player (ugly as it is). I was wondering if there is anything resembling a quick plug and play? How does the OSSC fare in terms of ease of use?

In my experience, the OSSC can get complicated, you still need a cheap remote to control it (not sure why that really matters), it does only the most basic of deinterlacing (bob deinterlacing never looks good), and it complicates things if you want to use TOSLINK for audio; but the default configuration works for everything I've thrown at it, and that, combined with the automatic input switching, has helped me simplify my setup to where I now just need to turn on my TV (Too old to support CEC), AVR, and the PDU I have all my retro stuff hooked up to, then select Game on the AVR, and turn on whichever console I want to play.

Plus, I don't have to screw with the profiles unless I'm switching between a console that uses analogue audio and one that uses digital audio (I have to create a second profile with HDMI TX mode set to DVI, which stops the OSSC from sending an audio signal over HDMI, otherwise my AVR won't fall back on TOSLINK); and, when I need to make that switch, it's two button presses on the remote (Load Profile, and then 0 or 1).

[GojiFan90]

Would the Framemeister be suitable for upscaling VHS tapes on a flat panel display via S-video with scanlines? Does anyone have settings or suggestions to optimize viewing a VCR through the framemeister?

[Classicgamer007]

As a new owner of an XRGB-mini Framemeister I've been doing a lot of research on profiles and settings for it and have achieve nearly perfect CRT replication. (My 36FV300 has geometry issues....) I've been using Mario RPG on SNES as my check to see if input lag is acceptable (I can do timed attacks haha) and Mario World for scrolling precision (Seems to be ok!). Scanlines are a must for me - I have my Trinitron next to my flat screen and am able to compare the two - the scanlines on the XRGB are pretty close!

Now for my problem.... vertical scrolling with scanlines enabled! The scanlines fade out on the framemeister when ever you scroll the screen along the Y-Axis.

Am I missing some crucial setting or detail? Horizontal scrolling just fine.

[Fudoh]

Now for my problem.... vertical scrolling with scanlines enabled! The scanlines fade out on the framemeister when ever you scroll the screen along the Y-Axis.

typical sample and hold effect on your average LCD display. It's not the TV, it's your eyes (seriously!). CRTs show the same effect to a certain degree. OLEDs are better in this regard.

[Classicgamer007]

Now for my problem.... vertical scrolling with scanlines enabled! The scanlines fade out on the framemeister when ever you scroll the screen along the Y-Axis.

typical sample and hold effect on your average LCD display. It's not the TV, it's your eyes (seriously!). CRTs show the same effect to a certain degree. OLEDs are better in this regard.

I’ll have to take your word on it regarding OLEDs.

However on my crt you can watch objects in the background move as you scroll and the matching scanlines follow it dense and solid without the image scrolling behind them. It’s like the framemeister uses an overlay for scanlines?

Anyway the crt has solid scanlines which do not separate from the image unlike the led (and framemeister) which allow the scanlines to separate from the image. In the crt case it is not your eyes but it is how 240p content is displayed on it. Does that make sense? I suppose there is no setting to tweak in the framemeister to allow for scanlines to affix themselves to the scrolling image to allow the line to stay with each pixel? (Like the crt)

[Fudoh]

It's not the processing, believe me. If you connect your FM to a (PC-)CRT, it behaves just like the image on a native 15khz CRT.

The "stability" of scanlines on a 15khz CRT comes down to each individual and how trained your eyes are on it. It mainly depends on the focus, whether you're tracking the moving object or if your eye stay focused on the background. If your scaline direction is lateral to your scrolling direction (eg. a vertical scrolling shoot'em up on a horizontally orientated monitor) the image tends to look interlaced (on the scrolling parts).

Different display technologies show different scanline stability.

[Classicgamer007]

It's not the processing, believe me. If you connect your FM to a (PC-)CRT, it behaves just like the image on a native 15khz CRT.

The "stability" of scanlines on a 15khz CRT comes down to each individual and how trained your eyes are on it. It mainly depends on the focus, whether you're tracking the moving object or if your eye stay focused on the background. If your scaline direction is lateral to your scrolling direction (eg. a vertical scrolling shoot'em up on a horizontally orientated monitor) the image tends to look interlaced (on the scrolling parts).

Different display technologies show different scanline stability.

On this 36fv300 crt I can look at the background of Mario rpg and scroll up and down and each line is stable and persistent on every object. This goes for any game with vertical scrolling. If you focus on Mario the background objects still retain that stability though. Each object has a scanlines at the exact same position always regardless of scrolling position. It looks fantastic!

On the FM on ks8000 Samsung led if you do the same vertical scrolling action the stability is gone - the scanlines actually disappear or fade to 90% of their original darkness. Once you stop moving the lines are present again. Horizontal scrolling is normal.

I’ve gamed on crt for decades so when saw reviews of the FM I was hopeful it would be just like a crt. I guess it can’t? For what it’s worth even retroarch has the same issue with scanlines on an led.

[Fudoh]

Each object has a scanlines at the exact same position always regardless of scrolling position. It looks fantastic!

good for you. If you don't regularly use a CRT, you'll eventually lose that ability to a certain degree.

On a LCD on the other hand you'll never be able to keep scanlines "intact" with objects moving up or down. But if you want confirmation that the scanlines actually stay put, shoot a video and step through it.

Varying techniques like black frame insertion or strobing backlight will help with this, but the implementation usually isn't suited for games as it introduces other artefacts.

[Classicgamer007]

Each object has a scanlines at the exact same position always regardless of scrolling position. It looks fantastic!

good for you. If you don't regularly use a CRT, you'll eventually lose that ability to a certain degree.

On a LCD on the other hand you'll never be able to keep scanlines "intact" with objects moving up or down. But if you want confirmation that the scanlines actually stay put, shoot a video and step through it.

Varying techniques like black frame insertion or strobing backlight will help with this, but the implementation usually isn't suited for games as it introduces other artefacts.

I see they stay put. I just want them to stay dark. Why do they fade?

[Lomax]

What settings should I use on my XRGB-mini Framemeister for a PAL SNES?

[nmalinoski]

What settings should I use on my XRGB-mini Framemeister for a PAL SNES?

Are the defaults not working for you?

[Lomax]

Are the defaults not working for you?

Yes they are, but I guess I'm wondering if there are some "optimal" settings I should be using. I see that FirebrandX has a nice set of profiles, but they are only for NTSC.

[awbacon]

I searched and searched again but didn't find the answer, so I am fresh bumping this

Anyone ever succeed in getting a Taito F3 pcb to sync via the Framemeister? I've read it works, but I have yet to find any settings that works for me

Any help greatly appreciated

[Eclipse00]

This question is a long shot, and might not even be technically possible, but I've been unable to find much info one way or another searching around.

Is there a way to configure your Framemeister settings (or any other upscaler for that matter) to play nicely with dithered transparencies? e.g. waterfalls in Sonic, and basically anything on Sega Saturn?

Again, long shot, I haven't been keeping close track of what's going on in the scene the last few years. Just wondering if anybody has taken a serious stab at solving this problem while playing on an HDTV?
It may just be a fact of life that we'll need to play games that make heavy use of dithered transparencies on CRT's...

[it290]

The various FPGA solutions out there (e.g. Mega SG, MiSTer) have some options for this of varying quality. That's probably your best bet if that sort of thing bothers you (personally, I prefer sharp pixels except in extreme cases, like Twinkle Tale). I think it should be possible in theory with the OSSC Pro, but for existing scalers your options are going to be limited.

[Konsolkongen]

You can set either the H or V scaler to a very high level and that will make the waterfalls look transparent. The rest of the image will look awful though, but not that much worse than regular composite

[Danexmurder]

Would the Framemeister be suitable for upscaling VHS tapes on a flat panel display via S-video with scanlines? Does anyone have settings or suggestions to optimize viewing a VCR through the framemeister?

I actually just tried this out a couple weeks ago. I watched Wayne's World and Ghostbusters on VHS through the framemeister. I thought it scaled incredibly well. I tried it with scanlines on and off. I ended up preferring it without but I thought it looked really good with them on as well. I didn't use any special settings. I was using composite video and it still looked great. I imagine with S-video it will look even better. It did drop sync a couple times but I imagine I could tweak it to get a better result. As it was it was a great plug and play solution. Give it a shot and see what you think!

[SavagePencil]

Were you using default settings on the Framemeister, or did you tweak things (besides scaliness)?

[stranno]

Hi guys.

I'm getting jailbar noise in my N64 signal.



It's a PAL N64RGB (Tim) modded console. Component track has been cutted.
I'm outputting signal through an RGB SCART Csync cable from Retro Gaming Cables (good quality) into XRGB.

Here's the installation. Any clue?



Edit: NVM, Tim edited the guide in 2017 with the wire-to-screw step I missed it back in the day, thats why its carrying those jailbars.

[BMF54123]

Hey all. I dunno how many people still use the Framemeister for streaming, now that we have the RetroTINK and OSSC, but I found a solution for the green boost when using RGB output (I can't get AUTO/YCbCr to "stick" when connected to my AVerMedia Live Gamer 4K). Basically, the Framemeister is using the wrong color space in RGB mode, so you need to apply a LUT in OBS to correct it:

https://twitter.com/PixelatedWah/status ... 7699636224

The results (uncorrected on left, corrected on right):




Unfortunately, this won't fix the image you see on your TV/monitor (unless you play in OBS's preview window for some reason), but for setups like mine that split the video to a separate RGB CRT it's not really an issue.