240p test suite for DC,PCE,Wii,SNES,GC,MD and SCD

[Artemio]

There have been too many news regarding MDFourier for several platforms, details are in this link:

https://www.patreon.com/posts/33847146

I still have to check the PCE and DC changes of the suite, but this has had me quite busy. It has basically been NES, SNES and GB versions of MDfourier. PinoBatch has created the ROMs within the suite,and we have been testing and creating the profiles.

In that post, or if you prefer a clean PDF: http://junkerhq.net/MDFourier/notes/MDF ... ipment.pdf, I detail how you can use MDfourier to test audio equipment response.

[rebornkid]

Hello there,
I just found out about the 240p test suite. So to test my pc engine duo r on the Beovision mx 8000 i downloaded the "240pSuite_1.10_SuperCDROM"-Zip. Which of these files should i burn on a cd-r? Just the 240pSuite.iso? Or with the src-folder? the wav-files?

Sorry about that, I tried figuring it out by myself, but I did not find an answer.


Thanks for the help!

[donluca]

You have to burn the .iso file but be aware that the .iso file is an image of the CD itself, you don't have to create an empty CD, put the .iso file in it and burn it.

You have to burn the .iso file directly, your software should have the option to do that, something like "burn disc image" or "burn ISO".

Not sure what's being used on Windows those days, but on Mac I use Burn https://burn-osx.sourceforge.io/Pages/English/home.html



EDIT: just saw that you have a .cue file as well. When you have a .cue file, that's kind of an index of how the contents of the CD are arranged, so you just tell your software to use the .cue file, like Artemio said in later post and you'll be ok.

[rebornkid]

You have to burn the .iso file but be aware that the .iso file is an image of the CD itself, you don't have to create an empty CD, put the .iso file in it and burn it.

You have to burn the .iso file directly, your software should have the option to do that, something like "burn disc image" or "burn ISO".

Not sure what's been used on Windows those days, but on Mac I use Burn https://burn-osx.sourceforge.io/Pages/English/home.html

OK, thank you very much!

But why are there so much other files in the zip? Just to know, always learning new stuff...

[Artemio]

You have to burn the .iso file but be aware that the .iso file is an image of the CD itself, you don't have to create an empty CD, put the .iso file in it and burn it.

You have to burn the .iso file directly, your software should have the option to do that, something like "burn disc image" or "burn ISO".

Not sure what's been used on Windows those days, but on Mac I use Burn https://burn-osx.sourceforge.io/Pages/English/home.html

OK, thank you very much!

But why are there so much other files in the zip? Just to know, always learning new stuff...

In the particular case of the PC Engine, yo your use the CUE file for burning. You can use imgburn or similar to burn the CD. The ISO is just one of teh tracks needed for the Suite. If you only burn the ISO, you'd be missing the wav files that are used for several audio purposes

[rebornkid]

You have to burn the .iso file but be aware that the .iso file is an image of the CD itself, you don't have to create an empty CD, put the .iso file in it and burn it.

You have to burn the .iso file directly, your software should have the option to do that, something like "burn disc image" or "burn ISO".

Not sure what's been used on Windows those days, but on Mac I use Burn https://burn-osx.sourceforge.io/Pages/English/home.html

OK, thank you very much!

But why are there so much other files in the zip? Just to know, always learning new stuff...

In the particular case of the PC Engine, yo your use the CUE file for burning. You can use imgburn or similar to burn the CD. The ISO is just one of teh tracks needed for the Suite. If you only burn the ISO, you'd be missing the wav files that are used for several audio purposes

So i burn the cue and iso file, both as a image.

[Artemio]

So i burn the cue and iso file, both as a image.

Just select the CUE file when burning the image, The software will know what to do (the cue has the instructions for the Cd structure)

[donluca]

My apologies, didn't know that a .cue file was available as well.

I've updated my reply to reflect this.

[rebornkid]

So i burn the cue and iso file, both as a image.

Just select the CUE file when burning the image, The software will know what to do (the cue has the instructions for the Cd structure)

Alright, thanks for the support! I try it now.

[rebornkid]

My apologies, didn't know that a .cue file was available as well.

I've updated my reply to reflect this.

Don‘t worry, i realy appreciate any help!

[rebornkid]

Done, it works perfect!

Thanks again for the support!

Now trying the find a good setup for the mx8000

[PinoBatch]

Action 53 Volume 4 is the first volume of the ongoing Action 53 homebrew anthology series for NES to actually have 53 games on it. Also on the cart is 240p Test Suite version 0.20, the first to include Convergence and MDFourier, plus a few post-0.20 tweaks to the MDFourier UI related to the validity of the triangle channel's starting state.

The cartridges will have one variant label for each game, which Paul at Infinite NES Lives plans to distribute at random. But I've been told that if anyone's interested in preordering Volume 4, Paul will reserve some "240p Test Suite" labeled carts for you.

Cartridge labels designed by M-Tee


NES version


Famicom version

[Artemio]

The colour bars are labelled SMPTE on my European Wii, but from reading the wiki I'll just assume it feeds EBU from reading the console's region.

You can select the video standard you want under options. Please select PAL for the EBU color bars to be enabled. This is not auto selected sincethe feedback I got was to default to NTSC.

Are the PLUGE bars at the bottom adjusted for a black level of 0 IRE with PAL or are they still centred at 7.5 IRE? I assume it's the latter since the PLUGE test pattern gives you the option of NTSC 7.5 IRE or RGB full range but it's a little confusing.

There are PLUGE bars for 0 IRE and for 7.5 IRE, this is described in the help text for the test. You can alternate between them, and even have some buttons to point out the bars and their current levels.

[Artemio]

Sorry about teh delay, I had to take the Wii out of storage to check.

On an NTSC system, the software is working as expected: When using NTSC modes it shows the SMPTE pattern and when in PAL modes it shows the EBU pattern.

From your experience, this is not happening in a native PAL system.

PAL mode was already turned on, either automatically or I did it manually sometime in the past and have no memory of it. Either way, I can't see any perceivable difference between PAL mode being turned on or off and the monitor's still receiving a PAL signal regardless.

Here is a video from the expected behavior after changing settings and how to change them, sorry about the quality:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ck3-qIQKFGM

I understand the PLUGE test pattern gives you that option, I was referring to the 3.5/7.5/11.5 IRE bars at the bottom of the SMPTE test pattern, and whether they are adjusted to, say, 1/2/3.5 IRE when PAL mode is turned on.

No, those are at NTSC levels always.

[Artemio]

That's good. Since you mentioned it, I assume the Genesis version also does the same thing in your setup, right?

The circles on the Genesis suite are the same size on my CRT with 320x224 and 256x224 so they are correct.

I've been swamped with work, and want to pay this full attention and not just a superficial glance. But I need to make the time for it, hopefully this week.

That's fine, no hurry

Being cynical: "I know you said no hurry, so it took me only four months to get a MiSTer to test". In all honesty, I am deeply sorry about taking this long to confirm this.

But I am really glad to tell you that you were completely right! And I recorded a low quality video showing the Duo-R and the MiSTer connected to the same CRT and switching between them.

There is a slight horizontal offset difference, which could be due to the RGB mod. But other than that, they are indistinguishably round between them. Awesome work and thank you again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXZ4XlYO2h4

[retromaniak]

Hi, I have a question. Exist maybe 240p Test Suite for PS2 or if doesn't exist is in the plans

[Artemio]

Hi, I have a question. Exist maybe 240p Test Suite for PS2 or if doesn't exist is in the plans

Of course there is interest in making one, but I am swamped with updating MDFourier for other versions and also working on changes for all in menu structure and other details.

An open source SDK would be needed.

[xga]

Hey Artemio,

Any chance of adding a high voltage regulation / bloom test to the 240p test suite, similar to this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5u_kHG0BiNI&t=10m14s? I think this would be a valuable feature to have when testing CRT's rather than always having to find a particular game that exhibits behaviour that shows off poor high voltage regulation.

Also, is the Sega Saturn version still in development?

Cheers!

[Artemio]

Hey Artemio,

Any chance of adding a high voltage regulation / bloom test to the 240p test suite, similar to this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5u_kHG0BiNI&t=10m14s?

This is a great idea, I'll add it to the list of stuff to update in all versions. Thanks!

Also, is the Sega Saturn version still in development?
Cheers!

Not actively right now. All legal SDKs I tested did not have all the features needed.

[xga]

Hey Artemio,

Any chance of adding a high voltage regulation / bloom test to the 240p test suite, similar to this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5u_kHG0BiNI&t=10m14s?

This is a great idea, I'll add it to the list of stuff to update in all versions. Thanks!

That would be great, Artemio. Thank you for considering!

[Guile]

Hi Artemio,

I was looking up lag testing and noticed the microphone mode for the Dreamcast only. I also saw the Time Sleuth device using a photosensor.

This got me thinking about the Wii Speak microphone which also has an led light and of course the Wiimote camera. Would there be a way to make some form of lag test like the DC one using either the Wii Speak microphone or the Wiimote camera?

I found one post about the Wii Speak which says it contains no firmware and the firmware is uploaded by each game or app and so is more difficult to use for homebrew.

Could a pattern be flashed to the IR camera and the delay calculated?

Thank you for your work on the 240p test suite, it's amazing.

[Dochartaigh]

I don't know if this goes here, but it's all about test patterns so it might be the best place (and maybe Artemio, the test pattern genius, might have some good suggestions for this as well

I use your test suites for pretty much every single console you have them available. But what options are there if a console doesn't have a 240p test suite available - or in my example it would actually be a 480p 4:3 and 480p 16:9 Anamorphic widescreen test suite.

I've been looking for how to test my OG/Original Xbox's in their two 480p modes. Regular, then anamorphic widescreen. I've been using a physical portable Extron VTG 300 tester, but if I tune in to those resolutions as soon as I load up a game on the OG Xbox (at supposedly the same exact resolution) the geometry is all off: stretched, off-center, etc. (just as different 240p consoles will output a slightly different size and centered image).

Any advice? Don't think I can just run a video test DVD on the OG Xbox, or a JPG image or something, as there's so many video modes on the OG Xbox (assuming here, I really don't know) that the game mode is going to be different than the video player or image viewer's mode. Agian, if off topic please let me know and I'll make a proper topic for this (and for the record would LOVE a test suite for the OG Xbox!).

[Artemio]

I was looking up lag testing and noticed the microphone mode for the Dreamcast only. I also saw the Time Sleuth device using a photosensor.

Nice! very few people have noticed that little toy with the Fourier transform.

This got me thinking about the Wii Speak microphone which also has an led light and of course the Wiimote camera. Would there be a way to make some form of lag test like the DC one using either the Wii Speak microphone or the Wiimote camera?

I found one post about the Wii Speak which says it contains no firmware and the firmware is uploaded by each game or app and so is more difficult to use for homebrew.

Just as you mention it would be really hard since there is no homebrew SDK support. I don't own the hardware either, but would get one if it could be feasible.

Could a pattern be flashed to the IR camera and the delay calculated?

That would be hard to code and potentially imprecise, since I have no reference for what is the baseline and the delays form processing and wireless data transfer.

It would need a lot of experimentation and I believe it would be hard to get something consistent. But it is an interesting idea.

[/quote]
Thank you for your work on the 240p test suite, it's amazing.[/quote]

Thank you for your kind words and cool ideas!

I use your test suites for pretty much every single console you have them available. But what options are there if a console doesn't have a 240p test suite available - or in my example it would actually be a 480p 4:3 and 480p 16:9 Anamorphic widescreen test suite.

I've been looking for how to test my OG/Original Xbox's in their two 480p modes. Regular, then anamorphic widescreen. I've been using a physical portable Extron VTG 300 tester, but if I tune in to those resolutions as soon as I load up a game on the OG Xbox (at supposedly the same exact resolution) the geometry is all off: stretched, off-center, etc. (just as different 240p consoles will output a slightly different size and centered image).

It is a huge task, but there is already somebody experimenting with the idea. No time frames, and no promises.

Any advice? Don't think I can just run a video test DVD on the OG Xbox, or a JPG image or something, as there's so many video modes on the OG Xbox (assuming here, I really don't know) that the game mode is going to be different than the video player or image viewer's mode. (and for the record would LOVE a test suite for the OG Xbox!).

We all would love it! But it is a lot of work. If something is released we'll post about it here.

[Guile]

I looked it up some more and I didn't even know that the Gamecube actually had a microphone too that plugs into a memory card slot, pretty interesting.

I found a little bit of documentation about sampling and playing back here http://www.gc-linux.org/wiki/Nintendo_G ... Microphone.

This could possibly get around the problem of using the Wii Speak firmware as the Gamecube mic can apparently be directly accessed. It also works on a Wii so that would be a nice benefit.

I don't know enough about how the Fourier analysis works to calculate lag but do you think it's looking more feasible that it could be done on Gamecube and Wii?

I also thought about the ir camera more and it would be hard if the tv display doesn't output a detectable IR light for the camera to see. It would definitely take a lot of research but that could be an interesting way to test lag with only a Wiimote. I wonder if there is some kind of filter or material which would make the display visible to IR cameras.

Thanks for your thoughts on this, I'm surprised more people haven't mentioned the Dreamcast mic test that's very clever.

[Artemio]

I looked it up some more and I didn't even know that the Gamecube actually had a microphone too that plugs into a memory card slot, pretty interesting.

I found a little bit of documentation about sampling and playing back here http://www.gc-linux.org/wiki/Nintendo_G ... Microphone.

This could possibly get around the problem of using the Wii Speak firmware as the Gamecube mic can apparently be directly accessed. It also works on a Wii so that would be a nice benefit.

I don't know enough about how the Fourier analysis works to calculate lag but do you think it's looking more feasible that it could be done on Gamecube and Wii?

It seems it could be possible. It would be a matter of experimenting with the hardware. I don't have the hardware though.

One extra note, this method, as I believe the help under the test specifies, only works if the assumptiuon that audio follows and is delayed as video is true.

I also thought about the ir camera more and it would be hard if the tv display doesn't output a detectable IR light for the camera to see. It would definitely take a lot of research but that could be an interesting way to test lag with only a Wiimote. I wonder if there is some kind of filter or material which would make the display visible to IR cameras.

Yes, this one seems very unfeasible due to the wireless nature of the device and processing.

Thanks for your thoughts on this, I'm surprised more people haven't mentioned the Dreamcast mic test that's very clever.

Thank you!

[Derf]

Hey Aremio, what do you think about possibly adding a TVL test card (similar to the below, or just straight bars across the screen) which could let users ballpark the TVL count of their CRT? I suppose it could be interactive to find in-between values, and a card at the max res of each console would need to be made, but I think it would be a useful addition.



Thanks so much for the tool by the way, I've used it quite a few times!

[Artemio]

Glad to hear it has been of service!

It was an original target for the suite to be honest. But I quickly found out that those patterns are really high resolution, just as the one you posted.

You only have 320x224 or 256x224 of active screen to deal with. If that would be useful and somebody had the skills to make such low res patterns which would end up being useful, I'll integrate them immediately.

Just to give you an idea, this is the actual resolution we can work with, cropped form your image



That's why I ended up with the full screen vertical and horizontal black/white one pixel bars, and the checkerboard. Which are of course at full resolution.

[Derf]

You only have 320x224 or 256x224 of active screen to deal with. If that would be useful and somebody had the skills to make such low res patterns which would end up being useful, I'll integrate them immediately.

Well, with PS1 and beyond you have max 640 horizontal res and Saturn has 704, so there's a little more to work with. I suppose the vertical lines found in the Color Bleed Check let's you check your TVL among the preset resolutions.

Perhaps a TVL check could be made where it's similar to the color bleed check. It'd be set on the max console resolution and you'd have groups of four vertical lines where at one end they're the closest as possible, and the other end would be spread out by a multiple. Still trying to wrap my head around how those test cards work on the creation size, but I don't think it'd be impossible to make something like that with user directions.

But I could be wrong

[Artemio]

Well, with PS1 and beyond you have max 640 horizontal res and Saturn has 704, so there's a little more to work with. I suppose the vertical lines found in the Color Bleed Check let's you check your TVL among the preset resolutions.

I don't have working versions on those consoles at the moment. The higher count one I have is 640x450 on Dreamcast, Wii and GC. And that is still probably too low for this application.

If you have any ideas and pattern proposals as a png, that would be great.

[Derf]

I don't have working versions on those consoles at the moment.

Ah you're right about not having a Saturn or N64 version, but I've been using the PS1 version which would be a good candidate as well as DC/Wii/GC. All consumer sets are somewhere between 200 and 400 TVL I believe and there's a lot of PVMs that are around 600 or lower, so I think it'd be helpful still. It looks like Wii would be the only system that could go higher.