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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:18 pm 



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I really need a road case like this for my D24, since I'll be moving it long distance next year. Following up on this picture, and I think on topic about old display tech, has anyone had any experience with getting custom road cases made for large stuff like 100lbs+ CRTs?


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:54 pm 



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You should ask a carpenter, any carpenter can do this with wood.
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2019 9:43 pm 


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There's a company here which specializes in building road cases. I live in a smallish city so I expect every medium to big city to offer a service such as this. but maybe it's less common than I think?
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 7:09 am 


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fernan1234 wrote:
I really need a road case like this for my D24


You can look on B and H photo. They sell cases that are like pelican cases which optionally come with a kind of foam that you can tear apart in squares. You tear out a space to fit whatever you have. It's less elegant than a custom made case, but should be a good bit cheaper.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:09 pm 



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vol.2 wrote:
fernan1234 wrote:
You can look on B and H photo. They sell cases that are like pelican cases which optionally come with a kind of foam that you can tear apart in squares. You tear out a space to fit whatever you have. It's less elegant than a custom made case, but should be a good bit cheaper.


Thanks. I hadn't thought about this, I'll look into it and compare with custom options available locally like others mentioned.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 2:08 am 


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I recently picked up a GX model and was suprised to find a bunch of tacked-on capacitors on the inside across some the ICs. This worries me as I don't know what these things should look like on the inside.

Is there someone here who has a Super Emotia GX willing to take a couple good close-ups of the inside?

Thanks


Last edited by vol.2 on Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:35 am 


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Eh, snapped a decent pic of my consumer Sony recently so I might as well post it

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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:14 am 



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FinalBaton wrote:
Eh, snapped a decent pic of my consumer Sony recently so I might as well post it

Image


I love how consumer CRT's have visible grill masks, triads or whatever, really miss that on a PVM TBH....


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:10 pm 



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bacardi wrote:
I love how consumer CRT's have visible grill masks, triads or whatever, really miss that on a PVM TBH....


It really is a neat thing. It can be emulated to varying extents though. Someone achieved some pretty cool results emulating a grill mask look (more of a consumer level of TV lines look) using vertical scanlines on the OSSC. In emulation, some libretro shaders can look pretty much just like various types of CRT TVs and monitors (the more detailed ones require 4K+ resolution displays). Most of the posts here are about CRT shaders: https://forums.libretro.com/c/retroarch ... ch-shaders


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:12 pm 


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bacardi wrote:
I love how consumer CRT's have visible grill masks, triads or whatever, really miss that on a PVM TBH....

It does look neat. I have some higher end PVMs (20L5) but I often go back to a good consumer set. having a pitch that is closer to a grid, than lazer beams, makes for a very interesting texture. gives a really nice grain to the picture
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:12 am 


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Well, well, well... look what followed me home...

A good ol' Sony Cube!


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:53 am 



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fernan1234 wrote:
Someone achieved some pretty cool results emulating a grill mask look (more of a consumer level of TV lines look) using vertical scanlines on the OSSC.


I was attempting to bring up the Trinitron's aperture grille style to convince everybody that cross scanlines are possible in order to preserve that line count appearance. To do this required adding a SLG3000 on the chain and thankfully became part of a following firmware update.

I'd like to see shadow mask at some point if it's possible.
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 5:15 pm 


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REVIEW COMING SOON!!! 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:56 pm 


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FinalBaton wrote:
REVIEW COMING SOON!!! 8)

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Noice!


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:48 am 


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FinalBaton wrote:
REVIEW COMING SOON!!! 8)

Spoiler: show
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:!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:17 am 


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Still need time to analyze the PVM-2950 and dial it in with all my sources (mycables don't all have the correct resistors in them etc so it all varies a lot from one console to the next. I'll fix that).

But I got my 2-chip SNES dialed in pretty good now and plugged in Illusion of Gaia and almost fell down the couch...
I think this monitor's forte will be games with great colorwork.

Sorry for the poor pic again but I'll get a used camera this week and that should be better than my old ass 2008 phone :

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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:21 am 


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Well, you won't necessarily shoot better pics from an actual camera. I mean on paper they're supposedly more competent than phone's, but in practice 10x times harder to master and achieve the kind of results you expected (assuming you even do achieve them)

Nice display anyway, I remember those were still rather common and affordable in the mid-2000's before too many people got dumb with retro stuff prices.
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:02 pm 


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Ah, good to know. Maybe I won't waste money on a camera then, and wait for a new phone instead, which I should be getting pretty soon.

Yes a really cool aperture grill screen! I'm happy I got to see one for myself, for what is basically a song and dance : $200 CAD. Theese go for $1500 and up online nowadays, no way I'm paying that! I don't like paying more than a few hundreds for a crt

In terms of look and feel, I think it looks like a very good arcade monitor (I know those use shadow mask for the vast majority. but it still look similar in feel). Might look closer to a consumer set than a broadcast one, when all is said and done.

It is very refined in some areas, and pretty crude in others. What a fascinating beast!
The light colours are very mesmerizing, they don't have the weight they do on a broadcast monitor, but they got this vibrancy and this crisp glow, like they're shimmering.
some colours are pretty crude though, like bright reds which turn a lot toward pinks (common on consumer sets and arcade monitors).

In some ways, my consumer KV-25XBR(very close to a PVM-2530/2730, probably 90% of the way there or more) has more pleasing colours : better darker saturated tones and better whites I think. And in other ways, the 2950 looks more pleasing, like on lighter colours. And on the luminance side as a whole I think it's spectacular, behaving like the top PVMs in that aspect. I can't outright say I like the 2950 better than the 2530, for the moment anyway. But it's too soon, maybe it'll grow on me even more and supplant the 2530. But I like the 2530 so much, that it has set the bar very high for me! Maybe with more tweaking the 2950 will improve on darker saturated tones.

What I vastly prefer with the 2950 however, is the full digital control for geometry and screen size/position! and also a bit of convergence ajustment. All without having to open the monitor. It's also a bit bigger, I'll take it! big enough to game from the couch (although 25 inchers acomplish that also)
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Last edited by FinalBaton on Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:21 am, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 2:53 pm 


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FinalBaton wrote:
Yes a really cool aperture grill screen! I'm happy I got to see one for myself, for what is basically a song and dance : $200 CAD.

holy crap that's a good deal


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 3:08 pm 


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FinalBaton wrote:

Sorry for the poor pic again but I'll get a used camera this week and that should be better than my old ass 2008 phone :



When taking pics of a CRT, the steadiness plays a big part, then you need to dial in the ISO (light sensitivity) and the shutter speed. Never use flash. A tripod or some other object to rest the camera on can help immensely. Sometimes, taking the picture at an angle can yield better results more easily. I took the following pics this past weekend with a Canon SL1 propped up on an Xbox controller box in front of the monitor. They came out quite nice.

Image

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 7:19 pm 


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Thanks for the tips Josh. great pic btw

But the sensors in my phone are crap and it's lense is blurry. No matter how I take the photo, it's gona be ugly
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:25 pm 



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Josh128 wrote:
FinalBaton wrote:

Sorry for the poor pic again but I'll get a used camera this week and that should be better than my old ass 2008 phone :



When taking pics of a CRT, the steadiness plays a big part, then you need to dial in the ISO (light sensitivity) and the shutter speed. Never use flash. A tripod or some other object to rest the camera on can help immensely. Sometimes, taking the picture at an angle can yield better results more easily. I took the following pics this past weekend with a Canon SL1 propped up on an Xbox controller box in front of the monitor. They came out quite nice.



This looks awesome dude.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:07 pm 


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bacardi wrote:

This looks awesome dude.


Thanks. Its from a 17" 31KHz CRT monitor running Retroarch in true 240p120 mode. If we are lucky and the new OSSC Pro supports it, we will all be able to achieve this type of image on the actual consoles and cheap VGA monitors. The pic quality at 240p120 is insanely good. Very bright and zero flicker.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:56 am 


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maxtherabbit wrote:
holy crap that's a good deal

Yup! 'twas a hell of a deal. One for the ages. I just couldn't pass up on that opurtunity!

Around that time I was eyeing some 2530s locally that were selling for $400. Then I saw the 2950 and it was no brainer

The 2950 was :

-cheaper
-larger
-had full digital controls for geometry and convergence (super important since it means I'll be able to maintain it myself)
-had a super vibrant tube and great geometry

The condition of those 2530 was unknown, they were in a storage unit and we couldn't get a pic of them turned on.
The 2950 looks great as I've said above. WIth a console RGB signal of normal intensity, I rock a contrast of 35 and brightness of -15 and get the picture as it should (which is really encouraging since the default value for contrast is 50 and brightness is 0). That tube has plenty of life left.
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:12 pm 


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Anyone here own any of the transcoders made by Crescendo Systems? I've been quite curious about them since they're so insanely rare. Unfortunately, the head honcho/developer of said company passed away quite a few years back. I found some old pictures of some of their transcoders, and the MayFlash YPbPr to RGBHV looks like an exact rip-off. I love my Kramer FC-14 a ton, but it's always interesting to hear people's thoughts on other devices :)
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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:07 pm 


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Quote:
and the MayFlash YPbPr to RGBHV looks like an exact rip-off

in terms of what ? Outer chassis or PCB or function ? I don't recall having a Mayflash at some point, but I have both Crescendo units (YUV to RGB and vice versa). Performed excellent, but there's really no need for them, if you have or are able to track down a Kramer unit.

Because of the rarity I would hardly recommend either. Getting an OSSC, connecting the output to a HDMI matrix and using both a HDMI to RGB converter on one of the matrix's output and a HDMI to component converter on another output, gives you basically the function of two transcoders (both ways), both in perfect quality and both with scanline options on a digital level packed in.

If you ever tried using a SLG unit with a transcoder, you know what a pain this can be.


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:49 am 


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OK, got the Sega Genesis dialed in pretty good now, and I gotta say : this thing is pretty incredible. I'm starting really digging it

The clarity of that picture is superb, one of the best I've evr seen. even better than the venician-blinds blanked lines of the pro monitors IMO (which I find a bit distracting while playing).

I'm playing some ThunderForce IV right now, and I can see everything with immaculate clarity on the screen : every bullet at all times, every exposion and powerup, all backgrounds details, however small they may be, everything. The whole presentaion is crystal clear.

I was sitting at 6-7 feet from it, but now I moved to 8-9 feet distance and it looks even better from here.

Funnyly enough, I can't see any blanked lines on this one (or baaaaaaaarely. it just looks like a solid picture) while I can with the 2530. But the 2950 is sharper(more columns of phosphors andmore TVL)? So I'm not sure why that is. and it's not the distance, cause I still can't see 'em at 6 feet or at 4 feet.
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Last edited by FinalBaton on Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:57 am 


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FinalBaton wrote:
OK, got the Sega Genesis dialed in pretty good now, and I gotta say : this thing is pretty incredible. I'm starting really digging it

The clarity of that picture is superb, one of the best I've evr seen. even better than the venician-blinds blanked lines of the pro monitors IMO (which I find a bit distracting while playing).

I'm playing some ThunderForce IV right now, and I can see everything with immaculate clarity on the screen : every bullet at all times, every exposion and powerup, all backgrounds details, however small they may be, everything. The whole presentaion is crystal clear.

I was sitting at 6-7 feet from it, but now I moved to 8-9 feet distance and it looks even better from here.

Funnyly enough, I can't see any blanked lines on this one (or baaaaaaaarely. it just looks like a solid picture) while I can with the 2530. But the 2950 is sharper(more columns of phosphors andmore TVL)? So I'm not sure why that is. and it's not the distance, cause I still can't see 'em at 6 feet or at 4 feet.


Nice. I wonder what makes the difference with the scanlines not being clearly visible?


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:25 am 



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Could be the value for contrast and/or sub contrast is set relatively higher (you can do this on the sharpest monitors with the most TVL to reduce them as well, especially on brighter areas).


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 Post subject: Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology
PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:11 am 


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Fudoh wrote:
Quote:
and the MayFlash YPbPr to RGBHV looks like an exact rip-off

in terms of what ? Outer chassis or PCB or function ? I don't recall having a Mayflash at some point, but I have both Crescendo units (YUV to RGB and vice versa). Performed excellent, but there's really no need for them, if you have or are able to track down a Kramer unit.

Because of the rarity I would hardly recommend either. Getting an OSSC, connecting the output to a HDMI matrix and using both a HDMI to RGB converter on one of the matrix's output and a HDMI to component converter on another output, gives you basically the function of two transcoders (both ways), both in perfect quality and both with scanline options on a digital level packed in.

If you ever tried using a SLG unit with a transcoder, you know what a pain this can be.


The outer plastic molding of the MayFlash looks exactly like one of the Crescendo units (forget which model, it was on an archived site), and that kinda led me to believe that they may have got their hands on some Crescendo stuff years n years ago and cloned it.

I've got an OSSC and oodles upon oodles of other converters/transcoders, here's a picture I snapped of my mess earlier today (and this isn't nearly all of it) xD

Image

There's one thing in this mess called the "Antec TVator Exec" that I picked up for cheap recently, used it briefly with a Portta HDMI to VGA and an Extron 580xi so I could connect my laptop to my PVM and play some Charles Barkley: Shut up and Jam Gaiden hehe
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