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Who is your preferred pokémon?
Joe Biden 3%  3%  [ 2 ]
Andrew Yang 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
Kamala Harris 3%  3%  [ 2 ]
Elizabeth Warren 5%  5%  [ 3 ]
Hollywood Celebrity 6%  6%  [ 4 ]
Deval Patrick / Julian Castro / Robert O'Rourke / Cory Booker / Peter Buttigieg 3%  3%  [ 2 ]
Donald Trump 32%  32%  [ 20 ]
Tulsi Gabbard 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
Bernard Sanders 42%  42%  [ 26 ]
Hillary Clinton / Michael Bloomberg / Mark Zuckerberg / Chelsea Clinton / Kirsten Gillibrand 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
Total votes : 62
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 5:58 pm 


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BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
I have a theory that a large portion of Trump's "base" may very well be into libertarian or anarchist style "burn the government down" isolationist values and see the genuine chaos and deaths being caused by him as mere cathartic entertainment as opposed to recognizing it as a very real and terrifying attack on their own republic from within.

Nah I can't believe that, most people who have even a little idea of what calling oneself a libertarian or anarchist wouldn't take Trumpite's shit for so long even for their side-purpose.

No, trump's base is just your eternal right-wing, just more reactionary, crazier, stupidier, and more religious/fanatical in the US which ranks them far-right in most other countries.

Basically the Anti-Spirals on steroids.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:48 pm 


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We're just your average people who want schools to make our kids smarter, clean neighborhoods where our kids can be safe outside, good jobs that we can safely go to without having to worry about our kids, and media that is safe for our kids to absorb. We don't want baby organ factories in our country or people being allowed to poison or diddle kids. Everyone who is for those things seems to hate Trump, so we like Trump. It's about that simple, and also everything the left touches goes straight to Hell and we can all see it online or by simply walking outside. Trump voters aren't sitting around online studying up on political ideologies, they're trying to get through the day without them or thier family running into any weirdos.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:56 pm 


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No you're not, you're weirdos full of batshit ideas, even more so than most of the left, and sigificantly more menacing to innumerable people than they'll ever be to you.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:14 pm 


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Bruh I build swimming pools for a living and play Nintendo in my free time. I haven't had a traffic ticket in 8 years and I pay my taxes :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:21 pm 


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And you support a political branch who wants to cleanse your country of every individual you label as 'weirdo' by your insane standards and beliefs.

If the left's a problem, the right's a full-on threat on millions of individual's freedom.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:30 pm 


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Not wanting cartels in my suburb and sex offender story hour for my kids is insane standards :lol:
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:39 pm 


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8BA wrote:
Everyone who is for those things seems to hate Trump, so we like Trump. It's about that simple, and also everything the left touches goes straight to Hell and we can all see it online or by simply walking outside. Trump voters aren't sitting around online studying up on political ideologies, they're trying to get through the day without them or thier family running into any weirdos.


Good ol' tribalism. Godless heathens, yadda yadda, kill them all, blah blah blah, let Him sort them out, yackety smackety, Deus Vult, rabble rabble...
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:48 pm 


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"Tribalism!" cried the opposing tribe as they readied their spears fashioned from discarded hypodermic needles provided to them by the state!
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:19 pm 


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Being well-meaning doesn't excuse ignorance.

8BA wrote:
We're just your average people who want schools to make our kids smarter


The people you voted for are doing the opposite. The Republican party has been representative of the religious right-wing that's tried to force back in non-science as science (trying to pass off creationism as real science under the guise of "intelligent design") and consistently uses its propaganda media such as Fox News to promote distrust of well-established conventional science policy.

The current appointed Secretary of Education, Betsy DeVos, is widely documented to promote private (for-profit religious) education at the cost of destroying the public school system (which the religious right oligarchs see as a good thing in order both to promote their religion and funnel money into the pockets of for-profit school operators). She's also been very active in defending predatory lending firms which have taken advantage of students.

Quote:
clean neighborhoods where our kids can be safe outside


If this is a reference to gang violence, conservative policy has exacerbated this, not made it better. Current right-wing groups actively push back against real efforts to combat poverty by constantly demonizing social projects such as welfare, food assistance, improvements to infrastructure, etc. Right-wing policy almost exclusively focuses on tax cuts for the wealthy upper-class, thus taking away funds that could be allocated to focus on reducing poverty which is well documented to be directly tied to the safety of neighbourhoods.

Not to mention the constant climate change denialism in the Republican party is going to jeopardize this goal. If action is not taken, in a few thousand years many neighbourhoods may well be unlivable from sheer climate change alone.

Quote:
and media that is safe for our kids to absorb.


I don't even know what you're trying to get at here. We have ratings organizations that pass ratings on movies and videogames as far as what is appropriate for children, and parents have a responsibility to be reasonably informed and involved in the lives of their children to tell them what's OK and not OK as far as media goes.

And I'm sure a right-wing propaganda mill such as "Fox News" that exists almost exclusively to defend the Republicans no matter how egregiously they behave does not qualify as media that is safe for anyone to consume.

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We don't want baby organ factories in our country or people being allowed to poison or diddle kids. Everyone who is for those things seems to hate Trump, so we like Trump.


Uh... nobody has proposed baby organ factories, I hate to break it to you, and it's already against the law to poison or molest children.

Quote:
It's about that simple, and also everything the left touches goes straight to Hell and we can all see it online or by simply walking outside.


I'm pretty sure the left isn't responsible for banning the CDC from treating gun violence as an epidemic and funding research into trying to stop school shootings. That was the work of a Republican who was working to protect the corporate interests of gun manufacturers represented by the NRA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dickey_Amendment

the language in a report accompanying the Omnibus spending bill clarifies that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention can indeed conduct research into gun violence, but cannot use government appropriated funds to specifically advocate for gun control.[18] It was signed into law by U.S. President Donald J. Trump on March 23, 2018.[19]

Essentially, Trump has paid lip service to gun violence without actually giving the CDC any way to address it by preventing it from using funds to advocate for policy that would demonstrably help address it (i.e. basic gun control measures). This sort of protecting large corporate interests who line the pockets of Republicans is also at work in the healthcare system, where Republicans advocate for privatization in order to protect the corporate insurance companies who funnel cash to their campaigns. Republicans are the party that consistently acts to protect the wealth of corporate backers and shows a flagrant disregard for the well-being of the public they are elected to serve.

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Trump voters aren't sitting around online studying up on political ideologies


There are plenty of right-wing neo-nazi groups alive and well that are operating in the USA who vocalize their support for Trump, so this assertion of yours is factually incorrect.

Quote:
they're trying to get through the day without them or thier family running into any weirdos.


When you say "weirdos" do you mean "people with non-white skin and non-Aryan features"? Do you think the neo-Nazis who descended on Charlottesville, Virginia and got a woman killed were "weirdos"? The same neo-Nazis who were defined as "very fine people" by Trump I might add, as he essentially declared them and their actions to be morally equivalent to the people who showed up to protest the presence of neo-Nazis in their city.

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"Tribalism!" cried the opposing tribe as they readied their spears fashioned from discarded hypodermic needles provided to them by the state!


Your casual dismissal of tribalism as a very real and unfortunate phenomenon that's taining your country's political system aside, supervised injection sites attempt to provide a real benefit to communities struggling with drug abuse. They are not a primary fix for drug abuse and tackling drug problems requires a multifaceted approach, but you're casually denigrating their use as a tool to combat drug abuse while defending a political party that has done essentially nothing to help with America's opioid drug epidemic (and indeed the Republican push for for-profit healthcare has almost certainly helped to cause this).

Indeed, the Republican party for years has actively promoted harsh sentences for users of marijuana, a drug that is relatively harmless and less harmful than alcohol, something which is widely done to prop up the corporate interests of the for-profit prison systems that support them. In other countries such as Portugal there is good evidence to support treating individual drug use not as a criminal concern but as a health concern: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal

---

In essence, it's really hypocritical to suggest your party is all for this and that when their activities have actually been key in preventing real and measurable improvements to these areas. The Republican party has fooled a massive amount of people into genuinely believing they care about the average American while being able to get away with doing the exact opposite and enriching themselves and their wealthy corporate partners.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:08 pm 


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8BA wrote:
Bruh I build swimming pools for a living and play Nintendo in my free time.

Conservative dogma openly states that the free market is an infallible judge of character, and thus if you're just another "regular joe", especially one that's struggling to any significant degree, that just means you're lazy/stupid/looking for a handout/etc. and not only don't deserve the government's attention but do deserve its ire, because anything else would be "coddling" and making you a "ward of the state" - if you're having trouble making ends meet, or just aren't set for life, you obviously need whatever safety net that's keeping you afloat taken away from you to motivate you to work harder.

Don't think your public schools are up to snuff? Hope you can afford private tuition, we're not going to even try to fix them (or even acknowledge they can be fixed). Want cleaner neighborhoods and healthier kids? If you think we're going to hire people to do that, let alone crack down on the corporations doing the majority of the polluting, let alone attempt to make health care affordable, you're nuts (and a Socialist). Decent-paying jobs? Hope you have a degree in something that the market currently demands (or have the innate aptitude to get one, and can shoulder the debt to do so), because if your position suddenly gets shifted overseas that's not our problem.

Want to see reduced abortions? We're sure as hell not going to pay for sex ed or make contraceptives easier to obtain, we'll just pander to the sheet-sniffers for votes. Reduced crime? Sorry, the prison-industrial complex, and its sky-high recidivism rate, is way too profitable to make any real attempt to offer criminals a way forward. Reduced illegal immigration? As long as our foreign policy makes so many countries unlivable to make things more convenient for corporations and our domestic enforcement does zilch to crack down on illegal hiring for cheap labor, keep dreaming.

Want anything improved in your life? If you can't personally afford to enact it from soup to nuts, too damn bad. Not that anyone's blaming you, perish the thought, everything is obviously messed up because the government is too mean to rich people. :lol: But naturally, if anyone else has similar problems to yours, in their case it's obviously due entirely to personal failings, so if they support anything that might involve your tax dollars feel free to consider them traitors and treat them appropriately.

They're not as sexy an evening news item as a local prowler, but I can all but guarantee that you and your loved ones will suffer, and frankly have already suffered and continue to suffer, far more at the hands of boilerplate conservative policies than some random crazy on the street.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:33 pm 


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Ah yes, the Donald. Paradigm of wholesome family values.

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“Ivanka posing for Playboy would be really disappointing… not really. But it would depend on what was inside the magazine…I don’t think Ivanka would [do a nude shoot] inside the magazine, Although she does have a very nice figure. I’ve said that if Ivanka weren’t my daughter, perhaps I’d be dating her.”


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:40 pm 


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- I'll take intelligent design over 72 genders, socialism, and Socially Acceptable Racism 101

- Welfare disincentivizes personal responsibility for financial well being and keeps the ghetto ghetto. Have you noticed the ghettos never went away? There's a no go zone for people of my skin color in every town across America. The country next door is literally governed by the cartels, so open borders aren't going to make the streets any safer.

- You know well that there is no way to control what your kids will absorb through media unless media is required to keep it classy. They will see it while you're away or at school or at a sleep over no matter what you do. We were all kids at one point.

- Multiple abortion clinics have already been busted harvesting organs, stem cells, etc. "Progressive" parents are feeding their kids hormone blockers. Media is attempting to normalize pedophilia and Desmond the 9yo drag queen is always making the headlines. We're not voting for anyone who supports that.

- Guns are not the common cold and the Center for Disease Control should focus on the Typhus, Typhoid, Bubonic Plague, and any other medieval ailments that might be magically popping back up in Democrat controlled areas

- Sure is a lot of Antifa footage and not a lot of Neo Nazi footage online. It's almost like the left wing media blows their existence out of proportion. Come to think of it, I've never actually met a Neo Nazi or Klan member or even a lone wolf white supremacist in my life. Weird.

- By weirdos I mean literally anyone who wants to hurt anyone else for any reason outside of ensuring the safety of innocent civilians, albophobe :x

- The conspiracy around Trump's "very fine people" comment was debunked long ago and information about it's deliberately and obviously misconstrued context is widely available online

- We're tribal animals by our very nature and it's helped us survive for ages on a harsh planet intended for gigantic terror lizards. Don't reject your humanity for someone else's dumb political ideology.

- At least I think we're on the same page about one thing. Weed is safer than alcohol.

- Dems are super greedy too bud.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:05 pm 


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Case in point. 8)
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:07 pm 


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8BA wrote:
"Tribalism!" cried the opposing tribe as they readied their spears fashioned from discarded hypodermic needles provided to them by the state!


Don't worry. Just pray to GodJesus to touch them and make them fall to the ground, twitching and mumbling in unintelligible tongues. He'll take care of them, but only if you do it with faith.

8BA wrote:
- I'll take intelligent design over 72 genders, socialism...


All those special snowflakes oppose Trump, but not all Trump opposers are special snowflakes.


8BA wrote:
...and Socially Acceptable Racism 101


You mean like the vitriol Trump and his followers have been spewing under the guise of "Patriotism" and "National Fervor" until today?

8BA wrote:
- Sure is a lot of Antifa footage and not a lot of Neo Nazi footage online. It's almost like the left wing media blows their existence out of proportion. Come to think of it, I've never actually met a Neo Nazi or Klan member or even a lone wolf white supremacist in my life. Weird.


"I haven't seen it, therefore it doesn't exist."


EDIT:

8BA wrote:
- Multiple abortion clinics have already been busted harvesting organs, stem cells, etc.


Man, if we only taught teenagers to be responsible about sex, the understanding of their body needs, and the access to and knowledge about the use of contraceptives instead of just trusting that they're going to wait until marriage before rolling in the hay... (and not fucking over a man if he cannot pay to support a kid he didn't intend to procreate, and that he'll never even be able to see) if only...
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Last edited by Specineff on Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:32 pm 


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Quote:
- Multiple abortion clinics have already been busted harvesting organs


If you want to be taken seriously, you should be providing citations for your ridiculous claims. I suspect this is a reference to the smear campaign against Planned Parenthood in 2015, and you genuinely believe the lies even though they've been debunked and the people who engaged in the smear campaign are still charged with like 15 felonies.

Quote:
- The conspiracy around Trump's "very fine people" comment was debunked long ago and information about it's deliberately and obviously misconstrued context is widely available online


This wasn't a conspiracy or misconstrued context, he was literally on television recorded defending neo-Nazis and those were his exact words. You are lying in order to defend your idiotic president and quite frankly you're reprehensible for doing so.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:35 pm 


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Specineff wrote:
Don't worry. Just pray to GodJesus to touch them and make them fall to the ground, twitching and mumbling in unintelligible tongues. He'll take care of them, but only if you do it with faith.

Specineff wrote:
"I haven't seen it, therefore it doesn't exist."


Weird though, I never stated my religion. Just said I would take creationism in schools over grooming. Maybe like, hating Christianity so much makes the left look evil to Christians and that's how you got Trump. Really maybe like a lot of things that the left does looks evil to everybody.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:40 pm 


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8BA wrote:
Weird though, I never stated my religion. Just said I would take creationism in schools over grooming. Maybe like, hating Christianity so much makes the left look evil to Christians and that's how you got Trump. Really maybe like a lot of things that the left does looks evil to everybody.


Was responding in kind to your argument about the spears, needles and the government financing all that. Also, do you know of any school where they're grooming kids as part of the curriculum, by any chance?
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:41 pm 


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Quote:
Weird though, I never stated my religion.


You defended creationism and in the same breath did what most conservatives do nowadays by demonizing "socialism" without a bare minimum understanding of what qualifies as socialist public policies. It's a fair assumption to assume Christianity.

You're also playing an "us vs them" game where you assume that every single Democrat must 100% support policies you disagree with or that Democrats don't recognize that yes, other Democrats can be greedy or unethical. Life isn't that black and white, there are plenty of voters on the left/progressive side of politics that have real disagreements with some social policies, we don't necessarily agree with everything liberal politicians say. Something that Republicans appear to have forgotten is that it is healthy and normal to disagree with your politicians sometimes when they support policies you disagree with and think are harmful, and it is OK to voice criticism.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:57 pm 


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Not everyone who's religious is an ignorant, racist, retarded, reactionary POS nut, some of the most humane persons I've met were religious, regardless of their religion, or origin, or even political orientation.

It's not the same balance everywhere tho, unfortunately for the USA they've got tons of the ignorant, racist, retarded, reactionary POS type, like an immense cult so fucked up they literally betray all the fundamental values of their own religion and country without even realizing it. They're like a growing tumor of stupidity and cruelty slowly killing that country, and their influence is also polluting the rest of the world.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:27 pm 


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You posted a mouthful, 8BA. I'm definitely not going to be able to respond to them all in one post. But let's start with the first:

8BA wrote:
- I'll take intelligent design over 72 genders, socialism, and Socially Acceptable Racism 101


First of all is Intelligent Design still even a thing? With theocrat Mike Pence a single 25th amendment away from the white house, creationists still feel the need to be coy and under-the-radar? It just seems so 90s.

Now I understand conservatives are very concerned about Communist China kicking the USA's ass economically and technologically. I live in a college town with a campus that's a leader in genetics and biotech development, and we are full of Chinese exchange students here to learn everything there is to know about DNA. Now the Theory of Evolution is kinda central to these subjects. To pick one example off the top of my head, the process of meiosis, especially the crossover step, doesn't make much sense without it. Saddling our students in US public schools with confusing anti-evolution propaganda is gonna produce really shitty US geneticists, is all I'm saying. Whereas the consequences of referring to someone as "they" are about... zero.

72 genders? Is that what they're saying in conservative land? All I gotta say is, don't mistake monopolistic megacorps' marketing departments' ham-fisted attempts to pander to social justice movements for the real thing. Black Lives Matter is not actually a movement to get Kendall Jenner to hand out Pepsis to the police.

And if you're worried about the erosion of gender norms, the biggest blame at the moment lies firmly with the Republicans. Nothing exposes how arbitrary and flexible the rules are for what is is to be a "Real Man" than the fact that Trump-worshiping social conservatives are saying the ultimate example of ALPHA MASCULINITY is this mincing old queen slathered in makeup and going through a can of hairspray per day whose greatest passions are interior decoration and beauty pageants who squees like a cheerleader over how "handsome" all the generals and football players he meets are, and who gets meth'ed out at 3am and spends the whole night sending out bitchy tweets about celebrity gossip.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:47 am 


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Someone going on about baby organs, antifa supersoldiers, and Sesame Street brainwashing the youth into thinking humans are people are probably part of the TFG (too far gone) crowd.

Prioritizing punishment of undesirables as the sole purpose of the government is core to them - they think if they're not victimizers, they'll become victims themselves. Self-perpetrating cycles of abuse are common.

Trying to rationalize someone out of fear is pointless, they'll just use it to reinforce their world model. They'll always be ~20-25% of a population.

65% of the population supports medicare for all. Would be great if we could get someone who actually supports achieving it to purge the democrats and force all the rightwing liberals to unite in the GOP. Which would sweep bigotry mostly off of the spectrum.

And maybe somewhat survive climate change. I respect the conservative liberals who pretend that it's a conspiracy or just don't care about it, a hell of a lot more than the social liberals who say it's real and a problem, but won't do anything substantial to ameliorate it.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:07 am 


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Mischief Maker wrote:
Now I understand conservatives are very concerned about Communist China kicking the USA's ass economically and technologically.

Educating your potential enemy in your best universities. Yeah, people should be worried about a higher IQ nation that appears much less reluctant to conduct research on genome modification.

Quote:
Now the Theory of Evolution is kinda central to these subjects.

But, again, people who were separated for tens of thousands of years (and interbred with people that were separated for hundreds of thousands of years) didn't diverge genetically in any non-superficial ways.

Taking down Christians, Christianity and creationism is what seems very '90s to me. Any gifted child/young adult interested in genetics is not going to be led astray by a line or a paragraph or chapter on creationism, if this is even something they actually encounter anywhere. The new religion of the West, encountered everywhere and not to be crossed if you value your social life and career, is what is hampering research, thought and writing of the people who do grow up to be geneticists or members of related fields. See reviews like this one in Nature, where the author is "troubled" by evidence-based claims from a behavioral geneticist that genes have a non-trivial influence on behavior.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:26 am 


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BryanM wrote:
Someone going on about baby organs, antifa supersoldiers, and Sesame Street brainwashing the youth into thinking humans are people are probably part of the TFG (too far gone) crowd.


I realize that it's pointless to engage with them in the sense of trying to convince them their entire worldview is wrong and that they've been duped by their political party, but if you ignore them, doesn't it embolden them? For the people that are still on the fence and undecided it still feels important to respond now and then at least to show that there is some sanity remaining in the world.

Quote:
But, again, people who were separated for tens of thousands of years (and interbred with people that were separated for hundreds of thousands of years) didn't diverge genetically in any non-superficial ways.


You're making two fallacious assertions, that 1) anything other than significant physical appearance changes are superficial and 2) that evolution means species always radically change (and within the timeframe of a mere 100,000 years no less which is nothing compared to the amount of time life has been on Earth). There are plenty of species in the fossil record that, from the standpoint of their physical appearance, really have not changed all that drastically. That doesn't mean evolution isn't at work, it simply means the traits being selected in populations have stayed fairly consistent. Evolution doesn't always mandate that a species always radically changes in physical appearance, that's a misunderstanding of evolution.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:00 am 


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BryanM wrote:
65% of the population supports medicare for all. Would be great if we could get someone who actually supports achieving it to purge the democrats and force all the rightwing liberals to unite in the GOP. Which would sweep bigotry mostly off of the spectrum.

You know very well nothing the like will ever happen. What's left of decent people on the right is basically small pockets of endangered species anyway.
Hoping for improbable scenarios produces nothing, you know that.

BryanM wrote:
And maybe somewhat survive climate change. I respect the conservative liberals who pretend that it's a conspiracy or just don't care about it, a hell of a lot more than the social liberals who say it's real and a problem, but won't do anything substantial to ameliorate it.

Because the left and whatever flavors of other liberals of the boomer system disappointed doesn't make even dumber people more respectable nor any useful.
You're always in that logic of 'if the guys we thought were good turned actually disappointing poseurs hypocrites, then lets say the guys I know are worse anyway deserve better treatment'.

If everyone followed the same 'logic', we would have long found excuses to let nazis and commies restore their empires.
That pouting reaction philosophy is puerile, like kids that do bad things because adults were mean.
And that's being a good boi doing exactly what the far-right wants you to.

Disappointed in liberal options? do the purging yourself among them and steal their seats or vote anyway even just for small alternatives closer to the center or ecologits whatever even if that seems desperate, but never, ever fucking help, ever have kind words for the assholes you know drive everyone to fucking hell-hole future in any case.
Never fucking give up, I do a lot of scolding and slapping leftist, socialists, centrists, and what's left of the normal right that's not gone batshit insane, but for anyone beyond that I only have spit, vomit and kicks in the balls to deliver.

Your accelerationist rebound is never happening, all we get is worse, faster deterioration with slimmer hopes of mitigation and recovery as things progress like they do.
What ever made you think that driving faster into a wall could make crashing have any better an outcome?
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:21 am 


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BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
You're making two fallacious assertions, that 1) anything other than significant physical appearance changes are superficial and 2) that evolution means species always radically change (and within the timeframe of a mere 100,000 years no less which is nothing compared to the amount of time life has been on Earth).

I didn't make either of these assertions (confused by the first one). Look at animal domestication for how fast a species can change. Humans, in a sense, have also been domesticated, and tens of thousands of years is plenty of time for subtle differences to develop (which become clearer when multiplied by hundreds, thousands, millions, etc.). We're all unique, but not that unique.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:20 pm 


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8BA wrote:
- Welfare disincentivizes personal responsibility for financial well being and keeps the ghetto ghetto. Have you noticed the ghettos never went away? There's a no go zone for people of my skin color in every town across America. The country next door is literally governed by the cartels, so open borders aren't going to make the streets any safer.


Look up redlining and institutional racism.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:47 pm 


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I know all the excuses. Your cities are bedlam and your harboring of pedophiles rivals the Catholic church. We're never letting you back in our house.
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:03 pm 


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Rob wrote:
Any gifted child/young adult interested in genetics is not going to be led astray by a line or a paragraph or chapter on creationism, if this is even something they actually encounter anywhere. The new religion of the West, encountered everywhere and not to be crossed if you value your social life and career, is what is hampering research, thought and writing of the people who do grow up to be geneticists or members of related fields. See reviews like this one in Nature, where the author is "troubled" by evidence-based claims from a behavioral geneticist that genes have a non-trivial influence on behavior.


Oh man, this is a trip back to the 90s!

The old, "Durr, maybe your emphasis on following the scientific method and applying proper data analysis is itself a religion! See the guy's article here in Nature where he says this author is playing fast and loose with his data analysis methodology in order to further a political agenda, a move that's been used by bad-faith actors trying to give their reactionary agendas the patina of scientific authority for over a century? Well he's like a member of the Spanish Inquisition branding Galileo as a heretic. Take that, science, the tables have turned!" argument.

I'm gonna put on a flannel, drink some Surge, and spin up a Stone Temple Pilots CD!
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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:32 pm 


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"You're not playing Grand Theft Auto again are you? What would Hillary Clinton say!"

Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are also good examples of punitive politics in the democratic party. The no-fun cultural warfare scolds aren't terribly different from Reagan, Falwell or Lieberman. (Lieberman was literally Al Gore's running mate.)

BareKnuckleRoo wrote:
I realize that it's pointless to engage with them in the sense of trying to convince them their entire worldview is wrong and that they've been duped by their political party, but if you ignore them, doesn't it embolden them? For the people that are still on the fence and undecided it still feels important to respond now and then at least to show that there is some sanity remaining in the world.


Maybe in a minimal effort copy+paste "yep that sure is the problem: the people with no money and no power" way. Not in a point by point rebuttal way.

Their entire strategy is completely dependent on engagement - if all we ever do is talk about their ideas, they're in complete control of the conversation. This is why escalation has to be constant and neverending - it's not enough to simply call democrats baby and soldier killers anymore, they need to invent something new and more offensively shocking, lest everyone get bored like a Crossfitter who hasn't tried out a new exercise in the last 15 minutes.

There is no internal difference between Goldwater, Reagan, Bush, and Trump. The terminal goals of their donors and base were always the same. If going "actually, hurting yourself to hurt someone else is kind of dumb" worked to a meaningful degree, it would have worked some time in the past 40 years. All we've gotten is a reactionary see-saw as things continue getting worse. Voting age people are not children, they've made up their minds one way or another on the things they care about. Internet posts have zero immediate impact on someone's terminal beliefs, unless your fellow posters know you and kind of consider you a friend. No one listens to someone they don't like and who doesn't like them in return. If fear, contempt and hate is all political conversations contain, that's all politics will be.

(It's been a while but I'll mention it again, there is no such thing as a "center" on basically any issue. You either want to increase the minimum wage or lower it. You're fine with legalized bribery or you're against it. And so on. In practice, the "centrist" position is to do the republican thing, but pretend that we're not actually doing it.)

(Additionally, the "swing voter" is not a clueless schmuck that could go either way. The Obama -> Trump voters that lost Pennsylvania and friends are economically leftist, culturally conservative. The people who stayed home and didn't vote were more likely to be leftists on both fronts. Ayn Rand style libertarians can still get some of the oligarchy they want by allying with the Republican party, all leftists get from allying with the Democratic party is minus 10 what they want instead of minus 13. Insane random schmucks (around 2% of the electorate) can change their mind based on anything, even a haircut, and can't be catered to in any strategic way.)

In the end you can only fix your own house, you can't control the behavior of others. Biden's kid collecting millions of dollars in bribes is just as bad as Trump's kids collecting millions of dollars in bribes. Bush and Clinton collecting massive "speaking" fees from giant banks is unacceptable to any decent human being. Clinton calling everyone who criticizes her record whatsoever a Russian stooge is a bigger problem than conspiracy theories about Elizabeth Warren huffing glue with teenagers.

There is zero energy in the republican party to do away with corruption. There is currently only one presidential candidate in the democrat party who is against it. Bringing back the New Deal is the only weapon we have against them.

This is what they used to sound like back in the days the New Deal was still clinging onto life support. That wasn't because they were Nice Guys or completely because they wanted cheap labor or because throwing people into prisons wasn't a massive for-profit industry, but because that's what the electorate demanded of them at the time.


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 Post subject: Re: 2020 (D) Presidential Primary
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:56 pm 


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Mischief Maker wrote:
"Durr, maybe your emphasis on following the scientific method and applying proper data analysis is itself a religion! ...

No. First few lines of this review:

Quote:
It’s never a good time for another bout of genetic determinism, but it’s hard to imagine a worse one than this. Social inequality gapes, exacerbated by climate change, driving hostility towards immigrants and flares of militant racism. At such a juncture, yet another expression of the discredited, simplistic idea that genes alone control human nature seems particularly insidious.

Comfort makes it very clear from the outset that this is about his political piety, not "the scientific method" or "proper data analysis". There is a brief wiki explanation of what GWAS is, which he doesn't have much to say about, and a mischaracterization of Plomin's interpretation of his own data.

Quote:
Yet, given Plomin’s extensive experience and his footnotes, the absence of any explicit mention of race (to disavow it, say, or to allude to intersectionality) is conspicuous.

Plomin doesn't deal with race in the book, but Comfort is still looking for a witch.

Quote:
Plomin adopts the language of personalized medicine to call for DNA-driven advances in education policy — “personalized learning”. He argues that we should think of personality traits as we do autism or attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder: as existing on spectra. He urges psychologists to move away from the language of disorders and to talk instead of graded “dimensions”— personality traits, such as introversion or agreeableness. “All children have special needs,” he once told the newspaper The Guardian.

Comfort's conclusion is that Blueprint provides a "road map for regressive social policy", but when he actually cites one of Plomin's suggestions, we get this. "Personalized learning" - truly horrifying. This is all about the imagined political implications of this line of work. Hand-waving the actual science combined with fever dreams and sloppy character assassination.

To reiterate, Christians are not the problem scientific inquiry is facing in the 21st century and the condescension is unwarranted, especially when it comes to evolution and genetics.


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