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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:43 pm 


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Guspaz wrote:
Right, and my point is that doing an additional mathematical operation (be it integral or floating point) on every subpixel is very easy when you consider that the video processor is already doing many mathematical operations on every subpixel. Replacing a floating point multiply with a lookup table is just a cost optimization that reduces the transistor count a the expense of a tiny amount of extra RAM.


Of course.

But, I've always found that cheap and green light go hand and hand.
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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 8:28 pm 


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shroom2k wrote:
Well, some of us like to use the TV as a secondary PC desktop screen.


Well, yes, I think that's why they haven't made pc monitors yet. Dell had that legendary one that got pulled from production. There are laptops now tho, so maybe things are getting good enough for small panels. Just a matter of time I suppose.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 10:59 pm 



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shroom2k wrote:
Well, some of us like to use the TV as a secondary PC desktop screen. For example, I like to use it for equalizer/audio monitoring in DAWs - and for a good session, it needs to have that on screen for hours. So no OLED for me.



My Windows 10 laptop / tablet has an Oled screen. I've been using it as my primary pc for a while now with no issues. I switched it to a black background on the Windows desktop to save battery life but no other precautions were necessary.

People used crt PC monitors for years with no burn-in too. And not just as an occasional 2nd monitor when nobody's watching TV either. Unless you are leaving a static image on-screen all day every day for months or years, you'll be fine.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:54 pm 



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Guspaz wrote:
OLED burn-in is cumulative, so it's going to happen to every OLED screen eventually. But the question is, will it happen to a problematic degree within the normal service life of a screen, and for the vast majority of people, no, it won't.

That said, I'm not sure why they haven't implemented burn-in correction by tracking the wear on individual subpixels. OLED subpixels have a predictable and consistent lifespan, they decrease in brightness in a predictable manner based on how much light they've pumped out. So why not track the total light output of each subpixel, so that you can correct for burn-in by reducing the brightness of the rest of the screen to compensate, or by increasing the brightness of the burnt-in subpixels?

It doesn't seem like it'd be that hard to do, maybe a 128-bit accumulator for every subpixel, and you take the current brightness of every subpixel, apply some weighting based on a curve, and add it up. Then you've got this convenient map of the effective brightness of the subpixels to do any corrections/compensations.

IIRC, LG OLEDs have four subpixels per pixel, so one gigabyte of flash storage and one gigabyte of RAM would be enough to track it. Plus the hardware to accumulate the data, but they're custom-designing the video chips in these things, they could add dedicated hardware to do it.



All burn-in is cumulative by it's nature. There is no evidence that the issue is worse with Oled than Plasma though.

Oled and Plasma displays don't actually burn an image into the glass like old CRTs did. The issue is really the fading of pixels over time. Nobody has yet invented the eternal light source. They all fade over time. If you leave a bright static logo on-screen for extended periods, those phosphors will fade faster and burn in.

While it's probably true to say Oleds won't last forever, that is equally true of all display tech. An LCD screen has a backlight which will also dull over time. They have a typical lifespan of around 20,000 hours. For obvious reasons, we don't have any useful data on average Oled life-span yet so we can only guess.

Given the pace of change currently, I think a lot of our TV's will become obsolete long before they are ready for the scrap heap. When Oleds first came out and cost $15,000 or $20,000, I might have worried more about the gamble on new tech. Now, 4-5 years in, a 55" Oled can be had new for less than $1000. It's not the nail-biter it once was. Any risk is well worth it for that delicious image quality.

plus, these new lG Oleds have all manner of burn-in prevention features built in. They tell you to leave it in standby because it runs various bits of software while you sleep to keep those pixels looking fresh. And, it has a user-selectable pixel refresher program.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:11 pm 


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Classicgamer wrote:
There is no evidence that the issue is worse with Oled than Plasma though.


I admit it's circumstantial, but the lack of dedicated PC OLED monitors is a pretty compelling piece of evidence. The fact that it was already attempted means the supply chain is viable; it was aborted for what was reported as technical reasons. What other reason could there be than burn in?


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:26 pm 


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How many Plasma monitors for PC do you know of?

From my own personal experience using both technologies Plasmas were MUCH more prone for image retention which could last for days in some instances. This has never happened on my OLED. At the very worst it took a few minutes for it to disappear completely.

Burn in is most likely the reason why OLED hasn't been adopted for PC uses. And it makes a lot of sense. On a TV you vary the content a lot more than a computer where most people have the OSX Dock or the Windows equivalent shown at all times. This would cause burn in for sure.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:16 pm 


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Konsolkongen wrote:
How many Plasma monitors for PC do you know of?


So, this is mostly from memory here, and I absolutely didn't properly fact check it.... however, I remember there being something about the size of plasma screens and that it was economically unviable to make them in smaller sizes.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:10 pm 



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vol.2 wrote:
Classicgamer wrote:
There is no evidence that the issue is worse with Oled than Plasma though.


I admit it's circumstantial, but the lack of dedicated PC OLED monitors is a pretty compelling piece of evidence. The fact that it was already attempted means the supply chain is viable; it was aborted for what was reported as technical reasons. What other reason could there be than burn in?



It's far more likely that price and desktop PC's going out of fashion is the reason why we don't see tons of Oled computer monitors. That and the fact that there is only one manufacturer of Oled panels.

It's not much of a stretch to assume that Dell came to realize that the market for $3000+ consumer PC monitors was limited. The average PC monitor in Best Buy is less than $300.

In areas where low pricing is less important than quality, like pro video editing, Oled has been used in high end monitors for years already. Sony's current BVM line, for example.

Oled is also used in every LG and Samsung smart phone, tablet, laptop / tablet hybrids and also in some high end laptops. A large portion of stuff people do on computers at home is now done on these devices. We use tablets for surfing, reading, internet research, streaming, gaming, posting on forums, Word documents, reading (e-books), drawing, photography etc etc...

Manufacturers have never let concerns about burn-in be the reason for choosing the tech. CRT PC monitors were used for decades. And, where larger size monitors were required, plasma monitors were also common.

There were tons of commercial plasma monitors made by NEC, Pioneer, Hitachi, Panasonic, Zenith and Samsung. They were very popular for digital signage, presentation displays and other commercial uses. This Samsung Plasma monitor even has a built in PC like a giant tablet:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Samsung-P63FN- ... SwV0NbEDGP


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:25 pm 



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Just one more moderately interesting data point. The very first use of plasma displays was in a computer monitor in 1981:

Image

I never knew that before. For some reason, I had it in my head that Pioneer invented the tech....

That orange screen has a res of 512 x 512.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:23 pm 


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Classicgamer wrote:
It's far more likely that price and desktop PC's going out of fashion is the reason why we don't see tons of Oled computer monitors. That and the fact that there is only one manufacturer of Oled panels.


Samsung is the only manufacturer of PC OLED displays at the moment (all OLED laptops use Samsung displays), LG is the only manufacturer of TV OLED displays, but there are a bunch of manufacturers of phone OLED displays now. LG, Samsung, and BOE, at least.

Samsung is hoping to re-enter the TV space with QD-OLED. It's similar in concept to how LG makes OLED panels. LG's panels are actually monochrome white OLED panels with an LCD-style colour filter array on top. Samsung's QD-OLED panels are monochrome blue OLED panels with a quantum dot colour filter on top of the red and green outputs. This should improve lifespan because you don't need to drive the OLED elements as hard when you're not throwing away as much light in the filter layer.

In theory, QD-OLED should be cheaper, but that's a moot point when LG's WOLED yields are currently believed to be 70% while Samsung's QD-OLED yields are currently believed to be 30%. If Samsung gets yields up to where LG's are, Samsung will have a big advantage.

Samsung also hedged their bets, a completely different division of the company is working on TV-sized microleds. They have all the same quality advantages of OLEDs (infinite contrast, ultra-low response times), or even better (pure RGB, much higher brightness) but with dramatically better lifespans (to the extent that burn-in would be a non-issue). The problem is that, while they've finally managed to show off TV-sized prototypes, 75-inch is the smallest they can currently make, and the cost is reported to be incredibly high because they're super hard to manufacture. I mean, think about it, if they are literally incapable of making the thing smaller than 75-inches for 4K at the moment, how hard must it be to even make that 75"?


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:55 pm 



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I'm as excited for Samsung's micro-led as anyone but it's a little early to speculate on how long they'll last or if burn-in will be a problem. All we have currently is Samsung's marketing promises. An educated guess says the tech lights each pixel individually like CRT, Plasma and Oled, so burn-in is possible.

Obviously Samsung are going to make big promises. The only thing stopping them from losing all market share is the higher price of Oleds and that is changing fast. Now that large Oled TV's are starting to come in at under $1000, it won't be long before they are the dominant consumer display tech.

While Samsung struggles just to catch up on image quality, LG seems to have developed an amazing eye for what consumers really want. It's not just the premium performance at a price ordinary people can afford. Their rollable Oled TV tech will make them unstoppable IMO.

Once TV's like this become affordable for the masses, nobody will want anything else:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgOyWgKl7XY

I mean... Come on... It rolls up (or down) like a projector screen and changes shape to avoid black bars on 2.35:1 movies..... It's like the future, only now...


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 1:15 am 


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Classicgamer wrote:

I mean... Come on... It rolls up (or down) like a projector screen and changes shape to avoid black bars on 2.35:1 movies..... It's like the future, only now...


That is definitely really awesome, but I'm still more into projection tech insofar as new displays go. I'm more excited for cheaper and better projectors which can look good in lit spaces. I feel more like it's a movie theater when I see a projected film, and certain games (I'm looking at you Metroid Prime series) are fantastic and immersive when they fill up a whole wall. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:06 am 



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Classicgamer wrote:
I mean... Come on... It rolls up (or down) like a projector screen and changes shape to avoid black bars on 2.35:1 movies..... It's like the future, only now...

It's a cool idea, but, from the standpoint of an engineer, I'm not convinced it's any better than or even as durable as a fixed panel. I particularly don't like the idea of a TV that depends on moving parts to even be viewed, and it's not clear just from the video how that height-matching feature might affect the display's ergonomics. It just seems like significant added cost for no real benefit.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:20 am 



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nmalinoski wrote:
Classicgamer wrote:
I mean... Come on... It rolls up (or down) like a projector screen and changes shape to avoid black bars on 2.35:1 movies..... It's like the future, only now...

It's a cool idea, but, from the standpoint of an engineer, I'm not convinced it's any better than or even as durable as a fixed panel. I particularly don't like the idea of a TV that depends on moving parts to even be viewed, and it's not clear just from the video how that height-matching feature might affect the display's ergonomics. It just seems like significant added cost for no real benefit.


There's a lot of benefit. Imagine the conversation with the wife. "honey I think we should get that new 120" Oled". "no way it will take over the room and clutter it up". "but..' It folds away into a small box when not in use so it'll be even neater than what we have now". "OK get it".

I'm telling you, as someone who owned a home theater business, when it comes to large screens, it's about location, location, location for most people. A lot don't have space for a permanently set up large screen but most can manage with one that rolls away when not in use.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:30 am 



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vol.2 wrote:
Classicgamer wrote:

I mean... Come on... It rolls up (or down) like a projector screen and changes shape to avoid black bars on 2.35:1 movies..... It's like the future, only now...


That is definitely really awesome, but I'm still more into projection tech insofar as new displays go. I'm more excited for cheaper and better projectors which can look good in lit spaces. I feel more like it's a movie theater when I see a projected film, and certain games (I'm looking at you Metroid Prime series) are fantastic and immersive when they fill up a whole wall. :)


I like projectors too but what you want will never happen. A projector can not be good and cheap because so much depends on the lens quality. Nobody has yet found a way of making quality cheap glass. The lens alone on a genuinely high quality projector usually costs $5000 - $10,000.

As for looking good in lit spaces, that has far more to do with the screen than the projector. A white screen will always look washed out with the lights one. You need to invest in a quality black screen or a rear projection set up.

I used to have a 110" black screen in my living room. I loved it but I finally agreed to give it up when the 77" Oleds became affordable. No other display tech even comes close. A high end lcos projector can do a nice job in a pitch black room but Oled is in a different league. I couldn't resist.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:44 am 



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Classicgamer wrote:
nmalinoski wrote:
Classicgamer wrote:
I mean... Come on... It rolls up (or down) like a projector screen and changes shape to avoid black bars on 2.35:1 movies..... It's like the future, only now...

It's a cool idea, but, from the standpoint of an engineer, I'm not convinced it's any better than or even as durable as a fixed panel. I particularly don't like the idea of a TV that depends on moving parts to even be viewed, and it's not clear just from the video how that height-matching feature might affect the display's ergonomics. It just seems like significant added cost for no real benefit.


There's a lot of benefit. Imagine the conversation with the wife. "honey I think we should get that new 120" Oled". "no way it will take over the room and clutter it up". "but..' It folds away into a small box when not in use so it'll be even neater than what we have now". "OK get it".

I'm telling you, as someone who owned a home theater business, when it comes to large screens, it's about location, location, location for most people. A lot don't have space for a permanently set up large screen but most can manage with one that rolls away when not in use.

I don't disagree with that. As far as looks go, it's a winner; though it's not going to be without its problems. It would still require a very wide box, that you can't really put anything on or use for storage like you could with a traditional TV stand/cabinet, sitting on the floor or mounted somewhere on the wall.

I would think that something like LG's wallpaper TV would be a better sell, because it wouldn't be a piece of boxy furniture, could be as big as whatever wall it was mounted to, and could almost completely disappear when not in use, without needing any moving parts to do so.

On the other hand, the rollable TV, at least the floor model (that's going to be a common pun if this thing ever hits the mass market) appears to be easier and far less risky to move around, being that the display is safely tucked away when not in use. They dragged it out to the pool in the ad; so it seems reasonable that you could move it out to your front porch or back yard for an outdoor movie night without the risk of it tipping over and shattering or getting scratched or scuffed while it's being handled; and it's a piece of furniture, not a bulky, rigid panel, so it would be easier for a couple of people to move around like a small table.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:57 am 


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That rollable OLED...sure is the only reasonably big tv or little home cinema system two people can move around very safely...that's not a projector.

But really it's essentially a luxury gadget. ^^
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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:26 pm 



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I think rollable Oled tv's will have serious mass-market appeal once prices fall to consumer friendly levels because most people care more about how things look than image quality.

My wife can see the gorgeous inky blacks on our Oled when I point it out. She just doesn't care. A TV that folds away neatly on the other hand, is a dream come true.

The wallpaper TV is certainly sleek and thin but it doesn't solve most people's challenge. it still requires a lot of wall space they don't have or would rather use for paintings. larger sizes still dominate the room. Our 77" blocks a whole window. In the absence of better options, a lot of people are hanging their flatscreen on walls above open fire places, which is far from ideal...

I agree that rollable screens will bring their own challenges. They'll start off expensive and we will all need convincing that the motor mechanism is suitably robust and long-lasting. Those without vision will need to be shown ideas for it's potential but, eventually, average people will be installing them in ceilings and floors when they renovate their homes to be invisible when not in use.

Perhaps the tech will eventually get thin enough for TV's to double as window blinds like in Back to the Future 2....

The same tech will also dominate the smart phone market. Those phones that unroll into Ipads being demonstrated at electronics shows this year will become the norm. Our smart phone use is currently limited by screen size. Rollable screens will help them replace the need for separate tablets. It just makes sense.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:43 pm 


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I like what Panasonic is doing with transparent OLEDs, it's really kewl. Perhaps they could make it wall-mountable in front of a picture frame or something, so that the picture will show through when not in use?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkQWJnAYqds

I also really like the rollable OLEDs but I'm a bit concerned with the bending of the display. I wonder if it will cause more screen uniformity-issues over time?


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:21 am 



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Transparent displays have been around for a while but they have mostly been intended for commercial purposes like window advertising.

The extra dimming layer on that Panasonic makes it slightly more interesting as a TV but the big question is how good the blacks are compared to a regular Oled. I can't really tell from the video as it seemed like he was turning on the tint layer with a switch.

Still, if they can make the image decent and the display transparent enough when not in use, maybe these are the bedroom and living room windows of the future. It would be a great space saver. I'd put a TV in my kitchen window and glass shower partition.

They solve a similar issue to the roll up Oleds - being able to put larger screens in places you otherwise couldn't.

I like that we are finally seeing attempts at innovation in this space. There has been very little since the first flat screens arrived. They just never seemed able to think outside that black rectangular box.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:50 pm 



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Classicgamer wrote:
Perhaps the tech will eventually get thin enough for TV's to double as window blinds like in Back to the Future 2....

The same tech will also dominate the smart phone market. Those phones that unroll into Ipads being demonstrated at electronics shows this year will become the norm. Our smart phone use is currently limited by screen size. Rollable screens will help them replace the need for separate tablets. It just makes sense.

And, eventually, hotels will have LCD bath towels to generate ad revenue.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:57 pm 


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Classicgamer wrote:
The extra dimming layer on that Panasonic makes it slightly more interesting as a TV but the big question is how good the blacks are compared to a regular Oled. I can't really tell from the video as it seemed like he was turning on the tint layer with a switch.


It will definitely be worse than a solid chassis: if LCDs were able to perfectly block light (well, they don't block light, they change the polarization of the light so that a polarizer blocks it), then LCD panels would have an infinite contrast ratio like OLEDs do.

Adding this LCD panel behind the OLED will require something like six more layers: the bottom polarizer, a glass substrate layer, the TFT layer, the liquid crystal layer, the common electrode layer, and the top polarizer layer. That's going to raise the cost of the display a bunch. Maybe you could figure out how to get rid of the TFT and electrode layers since the entire screen is just a single LCD cell, but still.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:43 pm 



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I went through a similar thought process.

The amazing blacks in Oleds are only partly thanks to individual pixels being able to be turned full off. The Oled pixel grid sits on top of a deep dark black tint layer. When the pixel is off, that black film is all you can see which is why the blacks look amazing even in a brightly lit room.

On this transparent Oled they seem to have replaced this opaque black tint layer with one that can be switched from dark to transparent. The issue isn't quite as bad as on an LCD TV as it won't have a backlight. The question is how dark and how transparent can this switchable lcd film become. If it can become genuinely opaque black it should be no different to a regular Oled.

If it only manages a 70% tint then it would probably only look good in a dark room. If they think people would overlook that by calling it a "lifestyle piece" I think that would be a mistake. On the other hand, it seemed to work for Bang and Olufsen. Nobody could charge more for a Panasonic plasma than those guys. We can't under-estimate the appeal of sticking a TV into a piece of furniture...


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:01 pm 


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The transparency comes with another cost: light only passes through the space between subpixels, so in order to increase transparency, you need to shrink the size of the subpixels to get a lower fill factor. The smaller the subpixels, the harder you have to drive them to get the same light output. The harder you drive them, the shorter their lifespan. In other words, these displays will suffer from burn-in much faster and much more easily.

There's also the problem that this is supposedly a Panasonic OLED panel, but Panasonic doesn't make OLED panels. They use LG OLED panels in their OLED TVs. If their technology and manufacturing isn't even good enough to use their own panels in their own regular OLED TVs, how bad will their transparent displays be?


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:35 pm 



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It's hard to say. Panasonic used to be a big player in the TV market and a premium brand but they have been very quiet recently. I don't recall seeing any Panasonic TV's in America when shopping for my Oled.

I wasn't sure they were still in the business, let alone looking to bring out new tech. Their pitch sounded more like they were entering the furniture business. They used to partner with Bang and Olufsen. Perhaps seeing them put a Panasonic Plasma in a nice box and charging $30,000 rubbed off on them. Maybe someone there is thinking "why can't we do that and let LG do all the hard and risky work while we make the large mark-up this time".

They wouldn't be the only one. Sony used to be the king of TV manufacturing but now they are also apparently too good for all that heavy lifting.

It seems like only LG and Samsung are left trying to innovate.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:08 pm 


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Sony merged their LCD division with those of Toshiba and Hitachi to form Japan Display in 2011. They also bought a factory from Panasonic. While they've found some success, manufacturing displays for Nintendo and Apple, they've been losing money every year for at least five years (if not since inception? Not clear), requiring bailouts and restructuring. Apple represents 60% of their revenue alone. They've also failed to bring OLED displays to market. They're expected to supply the OLED panels for the 2019 Apple Watch (LG Display currently does), which will be their first shipping OLED panels, and are said to still be at least two years away from being able to supply smartphone OLED panels.

It may be too little too late. Most of their revenue is from selling LCD panels to Apple, but Apple has been phasing LCDs out, replacing more and more of their phone lineup with OLEDs. Apple is also working on MicroLED panels, and rumour has it they may introduce them as soon as the 2020 watches, if the timing works out (the tiny watch screens probably do wonders for yields).


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:50 pm 



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There is definitely some poor management at Sony. If anyone knew how to be profitable in the TV manufacturing business, you would have assumed it was Sony. Where did the knowledge go???

It just goes to show that you can't be half-pregnant in the electronics business. You either support a product line completely as a strategy or expect poor margins.

Their current approach of slapping their name on other company's panels for razor-thin margins is Vizio's game. They were set up to operate that way from inception with a skeletal cost base. Sony is a large manufacturing giant with huge overheads.

Sony used to be a premium brand with a superior product (that people would pay a premium for). Now they just seem to wait for the business to fail while LG eats their lunch. Nobody can currently answer the question "why buy a Sony TV?". Oled should have been their baby. Pulling out of that endeavor was dumb.

last I read, Apple were developing their own Oled or micro-led display tech so it doesn't look good for Sony's display business. It shows how little confidence they have in their current display suppliers.


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:20 pm 


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:25 pm 


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Location: Salem OR
Classicgamer wrote:
It's hard to say. Panasonic used to be a big player in the TV market and a premium brand but they have been very quiet recently. I don't recall seeing any Panasonic TV's in America when shopping for my Oled.

I wasn't sure they were still in the business, let alone looking to bring out new tech. Their pitch sounded more like they were entering the furniture business. They used to partner with Bang and Olufsen. Perhaps seeing them put a Panasonic Plasma in a nice box and charging $30,000 rubbed off on them. Maybe someone there is thinking "why can't we do that and let LG do all the hard and risky work while we make the large mark-up this time".

They wouldn't be the only one. Sony used to be the king of TV manufacturing but now they are also apparently too good for all that heavy lifting.

It seems like only LG and Samsung are left trying to innovate.
https://youtu.be/BCjMLU5v9bs

Panasonic is innovative with dusl lcd and have the best pq from all of the OLEDs. They also have a new transparent OLED to go along with the MEGACON for connect creation.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
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PC,PS4>DENONX4300H>LG OLED65C7
DC,Xbox,SS,GEN32XCD,SNES,N64>Samsung 55Q8FN
3DO,360,Wii>SONY 34XBR910


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 Post subject: Re: Gaming on 77" Oled
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:20 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 870
Um.... we know.... we were just talking about it....

I'm sure Panasonic appreciates your support though.


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