Questions about the Virtua Fighter series...

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:35 am

I LOVE the original Virtua Fighter for the Saturn! I found it much easier to jump into then Street Fighter II. There are complex moves, but a lot of simple one's as well.

So, how do the other games in the series compare? I was thinking about getting Virtua Fighter 4: Evolution for my PSTwo, but I don't know if it will be as easy to get into as the first is.

Dale · Post by **Dale** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 3:56 am

Vitua Fighter is the only 3-D fighter I can get into and I highly reccomend
Evolution. Basicly the same game faster with more moves, the series seems to constantly improve(Honestly only Sega franchise that I have any hope for)
Plus it comes with a complete remake of the original and it,s cheap to buy new, definetly get it.

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 4:47 am

Dale wrote:Vitua Fighter is the only 3-D fighter I can get into and I highly reccomend
Evolution. Basicly the same game faster with more moves, the series seems to constantly improve(Honestly only Sega franchise that I have any hope for)
Plus it comes with a complete remake of the original and it,s cheap to buy new, definetly get it.

WOW, I didn't know Evolution had a remake of the original; thanks!

So, how are 2 and 3?

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 5:02 am

Virtua fighter 2 on Saturn is a very poor translation of the Model 2 arcade version.. It plays good but it looks very dated, however its much better looking than VF1. Just essentially 2 is just a vast improvement over 1 in the graphics and adds a few new characters..

This used the punch, kick, block format

VF3 was a launch DC game, was a 98% faithful conversion of the model 3 game. I believe this introduced an evade button, which basically was a side step to avoid being hit. It was a very good game, but it lacked the pyrotechnics of Soul Calibur at the time. I thought VF3's depth was too complex to master, most people people just played by scratching the surface of its moves, and the DC pad was attrocious anyways. VF3 introduces moving platforms and arenas with uneven floors. So you could be fighting on a slanted roof top or a stair well or some rafts stuck together at the end of a pier.. interesting stuff.. sometimes having higher ground pays dividends after all

VF4 I believe really shines, graphically stunning for the ps2, but still along way short of naomi 2 visuals. The game goes back to its 3 button roots, taking out the evade button which proved unpopular or redundant from Vf3. As with all fighters, the depth of the game comes with the amount of time spent with it. I think VF4 has the most comprehensive list of moves for a fighter yet. Graphics are superb as previously stated, lots of nice animation, colors and characters.. Can't go wrong here, especially since the US version was a GH hits release.

VF5 is coming out soon in the arcades on the lindburgh arcade hardware and its rumoured to be a 360 title.. Just depends on if MS put up the cash since VF series is a system seller in Japan, or was!

raiden · Post by **raiden** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 5:07 am

VF4 Evolution is probably the easiest VF to get into, because it´s got several game modes especially designed to introduce everything, not just the moves, but the whole engine.

So, how are 2 and 3?

2 has an interesting AI option where you can let the AI "learn" your style and adapt to it. Everything it learned is also saved, so the game becomes very hard very fast if you turn that on.
3 has a fourth button to dodge which was dropped again in later parts. VF4+Evo use a system similar to Soul Calibur: usually you´re moving on an axis with the opponent, but when you double tap the joystick into any direction, you start moving into that direction- you can also hold it after tapping once to continue moving. While this system is more intuitive than having a 4th button to take care of, it´s also a little slow: dodging in VF4+Evo is a lot less efficient than dodging in VF3.
Another thing that was introduced in VF3 and dropped afterwards are stages with non-flat ground, adding another level of complexity into the gameplay, because a low kick can hit high when you stand elevated compared to your opponent, or a high punch can go over his head.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 7:05 am

Be aware that VF3tb for the DC doesn't look too great considering AM2 only had a short time to port it for the DC's launch.

Just get VF4 Evolution. You won't be disappointed, esp. for the $5-20 that the game costs. They removed the trainable CPU mode but the AI is very fair.

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 7:09 am

AM2 didnt do the port, they outsourced it to Genki. (VF3tb im talking about).

Same goes for Daytona.

Diabollokus · Post by **Diabollokus** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 1:56 pm

Dave, basically its the greatest 3D fighter series ever made. I still feel virtua fighter 2 in some ways was the best and a brilliant conversion only missing a bridge for obvious reasons. Kicks tekken and DOA.

Get VF4:evo if you like fighting games, thats how simple it is.

ahnslaught · Post by **ahnslaught** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 2:57 pm

I love VF4 Evo, and especially its very in depth training mode. It's easily the deepest fighting game I've ever played; however, the one problem I have is that it's hard to find anyone that is willing to play this game because most characters aren't buttonmasher-friendly, and they'd more rather play soul calibur or tekken.

At least the arcade tour mode or whatever it's called is quite fun to play.

Dale · Post by **Dale** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:34 pm

I can,t get anyone to play with, me ether my freinds all like those Namco fighters or DOA games there jokes compared to this franchise because VF actual takes skill.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Sun Apr 23, 2006 11:35 pm

Dave -- go to virtuafighter.com -- tons of info there.

VF2 on the Saturn was about as faithful as the model 2 was going to get on any system. For the time, it was an incredible port. VF3 was considered an ass port by most. I did not play a lot of 3 though, but that is the general consensus. If I'm not mistaken, VF2 was the highest selling Saturn game (at least the top 3) selling somewhere in the 700,000 copies range. (I'll have to look this up).

The VF4 port was graphically very poor, but the mechanics behind it were a 100% faithful conversion of the current arcade (Version C). If you wanted arcade practice w/o pumping 100 yen coins into a cab, it was great (assuming you made an arcade stick, as the Virtua Stick sucked). Of course, VF4: Evolution came out about 5-6 months after that, making VF4 Version C obsolete. (Then Evo out on the PS2, and Final Tuned in the Arcades, which never got a home release AFAIK).

Looking to the future, VF5 is set for release in July. The Lindberg hardware runs at 720p. It is absolutely amazing looking as well. I have some videos at gamengai (look for the Japan 2006 report in the commentary section -- last page), but they do not do it justice. The game mechanics were completely carried over (with tweaks of course) so VF4 players can jump right in. Xbox360 rumors are just that... rumors, b/c Sega played a video of their upcoming arcade games right after a 360 video or something.

Evolution. Basicly the same game faster with more moves,

Not faster. While there are more moves, there were a few taken away as well. Some were optionally brought back for Final Tuned (if you paid for the VF.net service).

One thing that's not been mentioned here is the frames system that VF uses. Basically there's 24 frames per second, and each move takes x frames to initiate, recover from, etc. Knowing the frames of your moves is pretty essential in high-level play. It is the main reason that no successful online version has been made (and probably won't be for quite some time). Nobody has the latency at home that the system requires.

VF4 was the first game to really get the whole arcade cards off the ground. It saved your win records, items, your ring name, etc., so you knew who you were fighting against. I still have my stack of cards. Incidentally, it is where the name Gaijin Punch originated, as I wanted something fighting-ish, and that fit my whiteness.

As you can tell, I've played the game a bit.

Dandy J · Post by **Dandy J** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:49 am

GaijinPunch wrote:Basically there's 24 frames per second

Hey, it's 60 frames per second, 24 is for the cinema! I'm guessing you knew that and accidentally typed 24.

VF4Evo is the best fighting game ever made, so yeah you should buy it.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:38 am

Yeah, I'm an idiot. I think I've said that a lot of times though.... frames per second? 24! Always! How could there be more?

FT kind of pissed me off. Seemed like a big gimmick to make money. They're winning my love back with 5 though. Too bad it costs so much money to play.

bigbadboaz · Post by **bigbadboaz** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:17 am

I had heard a Final Tuned port was released, but only in Japan. Have never actually seen the game, though, so whoever posted that may have been full of crap.

Does anyone else here wish Sega had continued with the direction they took with 3 rather than trying to get back the feel of 2? The general consensus seems to be that 4 got the series "back on track"... but I always liked the evade button and the flat stages just seem so plain after the varied terrain in 3. I'm certainly not a high-level player to really know; did these mechanics unique to 3 actually break the gameplay somehow, or were they just that unpopular?

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 12:43 pm

bigbadboaz wrote:I had heard a Final Tuned port was released, but only in Japan. Have never actually seen the game, though, so whoever posted that may have been full of crap.

That was just wishful thinking, I'm afraid.

Triple Lei · Post by **Triple Lei** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:01 pm

I read that Final Tuned was so balanced, no one wanted to play it... truth?

For what it's worth I read it on a Tekken forum.

raiden · Post by **raiden** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:04 pm

Does anyone else here wish Sega had continued with the direction they took with 3 rather than trying to get back the feel of 2? The general consensus seems to be that 4 got the series "back on track"... but I always liked the evade button and the flat stages just seem so plain after the varied terrain in 3. Did these mechanics unique to 3 actually break the gameplay somehow, or were they just that unpopular?

"break" is too harsh a word, but the dodge was *slightly* overpowered in 3, weakening the slow, strong characters. Also, the use of 4 buttons together with a 24khz screen rendered the game pretty much uncompatible with most Jamma cabs around, so it was mostly featured in dedicated cabs, which of course was alright for Sega, but arcade operators didn´t like it.
Considering the precision players are supposed to execute moves with, having 4 buttons was probably also too much. So when Soul Calibur introduced tap dodging, adopting this feature must have seemed just natural for Sega, as they could return to a 3-button mechanic while retaining free movement in the stages.

Personally, I liked the uneven stages in VF3, and I also liked the strong dodge, because it created a slower, more tactical gameplay with a similar attitude to Samurai Spirits 4 or Bushido Blade, where opponents would sometimes just face each other without making a move, trying to read ahead the other´s intentions. VF3 dodging was never as overpowered as grab moves in DoA2+, where the attacking player mostly ends up as losing. VF4, on the other hand, became combo-heavy, almost like the Tekken series, but combos are something you learn for yourself, not something where you react to your opponent.
I like tap dodging, though, and looking at Soul Calibur it´s a lot more efficient in there, although the long range weapons should have you expect the opposite. The perfect VF in my eyes would be one with uneven stages as in 3, with tap dodging from 4, but with tap dodging efficiency from 3.

thesuperkillerxxx · Post by **thesuperkillerxxx** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 6:42 pm

I liked the uneven stages, and whatever happened to the big Sumo guy????

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:52 pm

Nobody played Taka Arashi so they just ditched him rather than take the painstaking time and effort to model him again in VF4.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:00 pm

There's a new element added to VF5 which kind of adds on to the dodging thing. Shun and Lion had that t ricky little sway. Now everyone has a similar move, but it's used to suck your opponents in, and then come out of it with some moves. I think Zero-chan covers it in her VF5 preview somewhere at 1UP.com.

Diabollokus · Post by **Diabollokus** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:27 pm

What do you guys think of the 2 new guys in evo? Brad burns and Goh hinogami?

I really like them, the fighting style of Goh has some nice BJJ and judo in the mix but Brad feels a little slow, I've been playing with brad alot recently he feels a bit incomplete particularly the lack of a few throws and counters for crouching opponents. Has he been changed much in VF 5? he could maybe eclipse Jacky as my fav player.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:09 pm

I don't think anyone's changed that much in VF5. Neither of the Evo characters did anything for me... at all. I've always gone for the agile characters. I like Eileen, although she takes a bit to get used to.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:04 am

Goh is the most difficult character in the game to use; it's way too easy to completely suck with him.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:27 am

Ganelon wrote:Goh is the most difficult character in the game to use; it's way too easy to completely suck with him.

He's cake compared to Akira.

ahnslaught · Post by **ahnslaught** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:43 pm

Agreed - Akira is ridiculous. While I think he doesn't have as many moves as some others, his inputs are so difficult it'll make your fingers cramp up. Just wanting to learn how to do his moves in the training area is hard enough as it is, and I can't even imagine using him in the game.

I've actually stuck with Goh, and while not as easy as Jacky to learn, still found him not too difficult at all.

The other tough characters, I've found, are Shun Di and Vanessa simply because of the number of moves you have to know.

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:51 pm

GaijinPunch wrote:
Ganelon wrote:Goh is the most difficult character in the game to use; it's way too easy to completely suck with him.
He's cake compared to Akira.

But isn't Goh still low tier in VF4E (seems to have issues maintaining pressure with his crappy offense) whereas Akira, who was always the hardest character to use until VF4E, can easily compete (and dominate) with everybody else with enough training?

FRO · Post by **FRO** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:57 pm

What am I missing here? I own VF2 for Saturn & can't get into it at all. I love Tekken 3, & even Tekken 2 is pretty cool, but for some reason VF2 just never clicked. I always get stomped by the computer no matter what character I pick, & the jumps just seem ridiculous (you have way too much airtime). The controls didn't seem very responsive either, so I'm not sure what's up w/ that. Anyway, I'm glad I bought it used & only spent $10 because I have been by-and-large disappointed with it. Any suggestions as to how I can remedy that?

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:43 am

Akira has never not been able to compete. He always has been, and will be a "strong" character. Goh's offensive is just not as ebrassive, that's all. You're supposed to use his throws and sabakis rather than raw ass-kicking.

For the most part, there really aren't tiers at high level play. Each character has someone that can completely stomp ass with them. Jacky and Lau are definitely easy for the noob to pick up, but beyond that, they all require a level of finesse.

The other tough characters, I've found, are Shun Di and Vanessa simply because of the number of moves you have to know.

I actually have a somewhat mean Shun. I got him up to "mosa" before leaving Japan.

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:59 am

FRO wrote:What am I missing here? I own VF2 for Saturn & can't get into it at all. I love Tekken 3, & even Tekken 2 is pretty cool, but for some reason VF2 just never clicked. I always get stomped by the computer no matter what character I pick, & the jumps just seem ridiculous (you have way too much airtime). The controls didn't seem very responsive either, so I'm not sure what's up w/ that. Anyway, I'm glad I bought it used & only spent $10 because I have been by-and-large disappointed with it. Any suggestions as to how I can remedy that?

It took some time for me to appreciate this series as well, I'm ashamed to admit. I eventually came around due to matches between myself and my roommate (we were of equal skill: none at all). They were really enjoyable and help me learn the proper way to play. I think getting beaten to hell and back by a much more skilled opponent is the wrong way to go, just leads to more bewilderment. Fighting someone with equal skill is more balanced - they figure out something that gives them the advantage, you then learn to counter it, and vice versa, etc. and the matches always remain intense in this fashion. I recommend recruiting the wife/friends as competition and spending at least an hour or so with it before giving up on it completely.

Most of my time with the VF series has been spent on Evo, though. Apologies also for general wordiness

.

raiden · Post by **raiden** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 5:01 am

Shun Di is a lot better in vs than single player because his moves are very hard to predict or counter. When you´re playing with more than 3 rounds, he becomes even stronger because his moves do more damage when he´s drunk, so you should always have some auto-drinking moves in your repertoire.