Looks like text and 2D elements can look really nice! 3D graphics may look a bit rougher or more jaggy. Maybe you can try one of the Metal Gear Solid games, off the top of my head those are PS2 games that could make for a good test.Retroman wrote:What's a good PS2 game to test?fernan1234 wrote:If you get a chance you should throw some 480i stuff like PS2 or GC/Wii games, or DVD movies. I'm more curious now about how it would handle that. In 2004 there were still a lot of 480i DVDs going around so I imagine these monitors/processors may have been suitable for those too.
Meanwhile, PS2 Dragon Quest VIII on LMD-210 with MEU-WX1: https://youtu.be/YU9PAn5r_xI
Sony lmd series LCD multi-format monitors (WXGA)
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Re: Sony lmd series LCD multi-format monitors (WXGA)
Re: Sony lmd series LCD multi-format monitors (WXGA)
@Fudoh, I got this message when trying to connect the MEU-WX1 to Dell P2314H monitor I got laying around:Fudoh wrote:@Retroman: I'm pretty sure I had the MEU-WX running on another display (or attach to another processor) briefly already. I mean it's a standard DVI output and there's no communication. If there was a lockout, you could get around it with a simply EDID minder and by copying the LMD's EDID data into it.
"The current input timing is not supported by the monitor display. Please change your input timing to 1920x1080, 60Hz or any other monitor listed timing as per the monitor specifications."
Do you know how to make the MEU-WX1 to output the correct timing?
Re: Sony lmd series LCD multi-format monitors (WXGA)
You can't. It only supports the one specific widescreen resolution of the 16:10 LMDs as well as (possibly) one 4:3 res. MOST monitors should support 1280x768 though. Makes me wonder why your Dell doesn't.
Re: Sony lmd series LCD multi-format monitors (WXGA)
Dunno if that is the reason why, but I just checked the manual and 1280x768 is not listed in the list of supported resolutions, the closest listed is 1024x768.Fudoh wrote:You can't. It only supports the one specific widescreen resolution of the 16:10 LMDs as well as (possibly) one 4:3 res. MOST monitors should support 1280x768 though. Makes me wonder why your Dell doesn't.
Re: Sony lmd series LCD multi-format monitors (WXGA)
yeah, it probably is, but the Dells usually aren't this picky and 1280x768 isn't THIS uncommon.
Re: Sony lmd series LCD multi-format monitors (WXGA)
All the old 480p/720p TV’s I own have a 1280x768 mode which you have to enable in menu. Odd that Dell doesn’t support this resolution.Fudoh wrote:yeah, it probably is, but the Dells usually aren't this picky and 1280x768 isn't THIS uncommon.
Re: Sony lmd series LCD multi-format monitors (WXGA)
I have a Sony mfm-ht75w TV/monitor, but I was considering one of the old 640 x 480p LMD monitors for retro gaming. However, my 17" widescreen does not process 240p action properly.
The still image looks good overall and with good 4:3 sharp upscale, but any movement on the screen results in a altered display with a smoothed-looking upscale that reverts back to the nice sharp image after movement stops. I saw no ghosting, but I don't know what this effect is called. What is the likely problem? I use the component input usually, but s-video and RGB d-15 inputs are options. I don't know how to access service settings, but could changing certain settings fix issues on my TV or the LMD monitors?
The still image looks good overall and with good 4:3 sharp upscale, but any movement on the screen results in a altered display with a smoothed-looking upscale that reverts back to the nice sharp image after movement stops. I saw no ghosting, but I don't know what this effect is called. What is the likely problem? I use the component input usually, but s-video and RGB d-15 inputs are options. I don't know how to access service settings, but could changing certain settings fix issues on my TV or the LMD monitors?
Re: Sony lmd series LCD multi-format monitors (WXGA)
that's caused by the image treated as 480i instead of 240p. So whenever any movement sets in, video mode deinterlacing (along with smoothing) is applied.I saw no ghosting, but I don't know what this effect is called. What is the likely problem?
Re: Sony lmd series LCD multi-format monitors (WXGA)
I tried s-video input and the display is similar with 240p motion. I have no de-15 adapters to try unfortunately. Also, I tried every known method for service mode access but it doesn't work. There are no progressive video options in the main menu either.
Re: Sony lmd series LCD multi-format monitors (WXGA)
Jaggy but very sharp. Looks like on true CRT but without scanlines. I guess if scanlines are added, it will look just like a real CRT. That's what Sony claimed anyway that their LMD monitors with the MEU-WX1 (and 2) were made to reproduce CRT-like/quality images.fernan1234 wrote:Looks like text and 2D elements can look really nice! 3D graphics may look a bit rougher or more jaggy. Maybe you can try one of the Metal Gear Solid games, off the top of my head those are PS2 games that could make for a good test.Retroman wrote:What's a good PS2 game to test?fernan1234 wrote:If you get a chance you should throw some 480i stuff like PS2 or GC/Wii games, or DVD movies. I'm more curious now about how it would handle that. In 2004 there were still a lot of 480i DVDs going around so I imagine these monitors/processors may have been suitable for those too.
Meanwhile, PS2 Dragon Quest VIII on LMD-210 with MEU-WX1: https://youtu.be/YU9PAn5r_xI
MGS2: https://youtu.be/tUd3yLUhj30
VF4: https://youtu.be/Z5-xHYEVZbg
Re: Sony lmd series LCD multi-format monitors (WXGA)
That looks really good to me. Have ordered a MEU-WX2 to experiment with.
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Re: Sony lmd series LCD multi-format monitors (WXGA)
Yeah it does look really nice. Some people may even prefer that look without the scanlines. But for those who want it to look as close to a CRT as possible, pairing it with a scanline generator could make this thing an excellent retro gaming solution.
Re: Sony lmd series LCD multi-format monitors (WXGA)
Given the year when the MEU-WX units were released, it might be a Silicon Image based deinterlacer. Looks a lot like it. With all the bob'ing these days on the OSSC and Retrotink machines, people seem to have forgotten what a good deinterlacer can do
Also, scanlining won't work, since the 768p output res really doesn't allow it. Using an analogue scanliner, you'd get 384 scanlines which won't match the actual resolution.
Also, scanlining won't work, since the 768p output res really doesn't allow it. Using an analogue scanliner, you'd get 384 scanlines which won't match the actual resolution.
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Re: Sony lmd series LCD multi-format monitors (WXGA)
The 4:3 LMD monitors output at 480p, no? For those it would work great.Fudoh wrote:Also, scanlining won't work, since the 768p output res really doesn't allow it. Using an analogue scanliner, you'd get 384 scanlines which won't match the actual resolution.
Re: Sony lmd series LCD multi-format monitors (WXGA)
I have the SOIA as well, and I would say the 240p processing of the MEU-WX1 is better...Fudoh wrote:Given the year when the MEU-WX units were released, it might be a Silicon Image based deinterlacer. Looks a lot like it. With all the bob'ing these days on the OSSC and Retrotink machines, people seem to have forgotten what a good deinterlacer can do
Also, scanlining won't work, since the 768p output res really doesn't allow it. Using an analogue scanliner, you'd get 384 scanlines which won't match the actual resolution.
Re: Sony lmd series LCD multi-format monitors (WXGA)
Yes. The LMD-210 (4:3 aspect ratio) in one of those videos I posted does support 480P.fernan1234 wrote:The 4:3 LMD monitors output at 480p, no? For those it would work great.Fudoh wrote:Also, scanlining won't work, since the 768p output res really doesn't allow it. Using an analogue scanliner, you'd get 384 scanlines which won't match the actual resolution.
Re: Sony lmd series LCD multi-format monitors (WXGA)
But isn't the output with the MEU-WX1 still 1024x768?Retroman wrote:Yes. The LMD-210 (4:3 aspect ratio) in one of those videos I posted does support 480P.fernan1234 wrote:The 4:3 LMD monitors output at 480p, no? For those it would work great.Fudoh wrote:Also, scanlining won't work, since the 768p output res really doesn't allow it. Using an analogue scanliner, you'd get 384 scanlines which won't match the actual resolution.
Re: Sony lmd series LCD multi-format monitors (WXGA)
The 210 is a XGA panel (1024x768). The MEU-WX outputs XGA to that display. The display itself certainly also supports 480p input, but then you wouldn't use the MEU's scaling engine and I don't think you can get the MEU to output that res. The MEU will always send the highest possible scan rate to the LMDs.
Re: Sony lmd series LCD multi-format monitors (WXGA)
So if an LMD has a native resolution of 1920x1080, does that mean that the MEU will send a scan rate of 1080p?Fudoh wrote:The 210 is a XGA panel (1024x768). The MEU-WX outputs XGA to that display. The display itself certainly also supports 480p input, but then you wouldn't use the MEU's scaling engine and I don't think you can get the MEU to output that res. The MEU will always send the highest possible scan rate to the LMDs.
https://pro.sony/en_GL/products/broadca ... /lmd-2110w
Re: Sony lmd series LCD multi-format monitors (WXGA)
the four digit LMDs weren't built for the external MEU processors. They have everything built-in instead.
Re: Sony lmd series LCD multi-format monitors (WXGA)
Does the four digit LMDs have a better built-in scaling processor than the external MEU one?Fudoh wrote:the four digit LMDs weren't built for the external MEU processors. They have everything built-in instead.
Re: Sony lmd series LCD multi-format monitors (WXGA)
By now I have three Sony OLEDs, two PVMs and one BVM and these have fantastic processing. I would assume that the 1080p LMDs have better processing that the really dated MEU units, but not as good as the top tier OLEDs. This applies to 480i and higher. I assume that the LMDs with built-in processing can no longer treat 240p without applying unnecessary deinterlacing.
Re: Sony lmd series LCD multi-format monitors (WXGA)
Oh I see you got a new OLED to add to the collection, congrats.Fudoh wrote:By now I have three Sony OLEDs, two PVMs and one BVM and these have fantastic processing. I would assume that the 1080p LMDs have better processing that the really dated MEU units, but not as good as the top tier OLEDs. This applies to 480i and higher. I assume that the LMDs with built-in processing can no longer treat 240p without applying unnecessary deinterlacing.
And thanks, these seem like a better option than the whole LMD + MEU combo for everything but 240p.
Re: Sony lmd series LCD multi-format monitors (WXGA)
yes, it's a BVM-E250.Oh I see you got a new OLED to add to the collection, congrats.
Re: Sony lmd series LCD multi-format monitors (WXGA)
Nice, that's a 2011 model I see, how's the input lag/latency on it?Fudoh wrote:yes, it's a BVM-E250.Oh I see you got a new OLED to add to the collection, congrats.
Re: Sony lmd series LCD multi-format monitors (WXGA)
yes, it was Sony's first BVM OLED (something like $25,000). Later the same year the PVM-2541 was introduced at a quarter of the price and I just wanted to see what warrants THAT difference in price.Nice, that's a 2011 model I see
Even comparing the 2541 and the E250, the later is one is a beast, with twice the depth and and an external controller box. The PVM-A250 in comparison to both is a ultra light weight.
haven't tested it yet. I actually didn't have it running at my place yet - only at the seller's place when picking it up.how's the input lag/latency on it?
Re: Sony lmd series LCD multi-format monitors (WXGA)
Yeah I seen, it's actually not that far off from it's original launch price now: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... _OLED.htmlFudoh wrote:yes, it was Sony's first BVM OLED (something like $25,000).
So did you found out what warrants an extra 20k? Both seem to use TRIMASTER technology and it has a rated lifespan of 30,000 hours.Fudoh wrote:Later the same year the PVM-2541 was introduced at a quarter of the price and I just wanted to see what warrants THAT difference in price.
In terms of just actual weight or also in terms of functions, performance, picture quality etc? Because the A250 is listed as a replacement model for the 2541 and cost about 5k (so 20k less than the BVM-E250).Fudoh wrote:Even comparing the 2541 and the E250, the later is one is a beast, with twice the depth and and an external controller box. The PVM-A250 in comparison to both is a ultra light weight.
Re: Sony lmd series LCD multi-format monitors (WXGA)
BHPhotovideo's listings are weird, since most the items simply aren't available anymore. Maybe the quoted price was the last one available from Sony before they went EOL.Yeah I seen, it's actually not that far off from it's original launch price now
as said, I haven't really used the E250 yet.So did you found out what warrants an extra 20k? Both seem to use TRIMASTER technology.
as of now, just in physical terms.In terms of just actual weight or also in terms of functions
I would love to decide for one and ditch the other two, but it's hard and not as easy as I would like it to be. I'll probably find something on the E250 that I like over the othersBecause the A250 is listed as a replacement model for the 2541 and cost about 5k (so 20k less than the BVM-E250).
2541 vs. A250 is hard already. The steel chassis on the 2541 is great and the 2541 gives you user control over how interlaced material is displayed (bob, blend, adaptive deinterlacing and scanlined "field simulation"), while the A250 has no options in that regard whatsoever.
The E250 does NOT offer sample and hold, it's strictly rolling scan. The 2541 and A250 both let you decide between sample and hold and rolling scan. You can even map it to front button to simple switch with a single button whenever you like.
For anyone without either, they're all great and I think the prices are reasonable by now. I see them comparably priced to the D24s. And I would argue that any of the OLED models paired with an OSSC isn't worse than a D24.
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Re: Sony lmd series LCD multi-format monitors (WXGA)
I wish I knew where I could fine one of those OLED B/PVMs for ~$3000.
Re: Sony lmd series LCD multi-format monitors (WXGA)
I paid around 2,000 EUR for each of them.
PVM-2541 on ebay.com ended for $2,400 just three days ago, so US pricings seem to be around the same.
I think finding an E250 is tough. I saw 2nd hand ones still go for 12,000 only a year ago, but for the others $2000 is reasonable. After all they weren't THIS expensive when new.
PVM-2541 on ebay.com ended for $2,400 just three days ago, so US pricings seem to be around the same.
I think finding an E250 is tough. I saw 2nd hand ones still go for 12,000 only a year ago, but for the others $2000 is reasonable. After all they weren't THIS expensive when new.