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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 5:46 pm 



Joined: 13 Jul 2014
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Hmm... there's no component input for this set? How do you guys connect GC/Wii 480p stuff?


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 6:42 pm 


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Windfish wrote:
Hmm... there's no component input for this set? How do you guys connect GC/Wii 480p stuff?
Upscaler. I use the OSSC.


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 10:24 pm 



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RIP-Felix wrote:
Windfish wrote:
Hmm... there's no component input for this set? How do you guys connect GC/Wii 480p stuff?
Upscaler. I use the OSSC.


Ah, perfect!


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 10:57 pm 



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Konsolkongen wrote:
They are pretty bad. I did a topic about how to achieve a good result without using a colormeter or more advanced equipment, on the LG C7. These settings are pretty much the same for C8 and I would expect the C9 as well, but there will be a few differences:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=62338


Soo... this guide is very helpful. You are right, the default settings for Game Mode are quite, quite bad. I am not an expert at image analysis, but things like bad. I am using your guide, but I am very confused about SDR/HDR gaming and the PC mode conflict stuff. Can you reiterate what the problem is - I am new to this.

I can bump your thread, if you think that's better.


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:12 am 


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Sure.

So both the Game and PC-mode on the LG TVs have the exact same amount of input lag (I assume this is still the case with the C9). The problem with Game mode on C7 and C8 is that the color gamut setting is locked to wide, which produces far too saturated colors. And we don't want that.

This is not an issue any longer on the C9 as LG now allows you to change this setting to Auto which is the correct setting. In fact, on the C9 you can now properly calibrate the game mode with a proper white balance control and what have you. It's really quite nice, compared to the previous models :)

The reason why you would still want to use PC mode is for RGB444. Basically displaying the entire resolution for all colors. Without PC mode red text for example can look really blurry, especially at lower resolutions. You be the judge if this is something that bothers you.

If you choose to just use the normal game mode, and you feed the TV a HDR signal it will automatically switch to an HDR picture profile. Here you should choose game as well.

The annoyance with using PC mode:

If you use PC mode for SDR (standard dynamic range) and you feed it a HDR signal the following things would happen:
C7: Very undersaturated colors, reds look brown.
C8: Correct colors, but MASSIVE color banding.

Which is why I mention that you manually have to change out of PC mode when you use HDR signals. I'm not sure though if this is still needed on the C9. The sensible thing would be for the TVs to just automatically switch out of PC mode, but they (LG) chose the above solutions instead, which was a bit annoying.

Long story short. If you don't care for RGB444, then just use the normal Game mode and mimmic the settings I use in ISF mode for the most accurate picture without a proper calibration. And setup the HDR game profile separately. This way the TV should automatically switch between the two modes according to the signal you feed it, and you never have to worry about it.

If you want the best picture then use PC mode for SDR content, but you may have to manually switch in and out of PC mode depending on your signal type. Unless LG have implemented some kind of auto switching.


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 7:35 pm 



Joined: 13 Jul 2014
Posts: 158
Thank you for elaborating! I appreciate the help so much - I will be setting up my TV today/tomorrow (it's been a busy week, haha), so thanks so much!


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 8:07 pm 


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Quote:
I assume this is still the case with the C9


No, doing the PC mode trick by renaming the input gives 20ms lag, only by switching to game mode can you get the lag right down... but if you say the colour gamut setting is no longer locked, does this matter?

Quote:
This is not an issue any longer on the C9 as LG now allows you to change this setting to Auto which is the correct setting.


They do? I could have sworn this setting was locked when I tried, not that I find the colours all that saturated.. where is it again exactly?

Edit - Colour Gamut setting is locked when you rename the input to "PC", not when you are in game mode, but it seems to be locked on "Auto".
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Last edited by BuckoA51 on Wed May 29, 2019 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 8:10 pm 


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Quote:
but if you say the colour gamut setting is no longer locked, does this matter?

Lack of full RGB 4:4:4 support might be the bigger issue (just quoting from above, not owning a C9).


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 8:15 pm 


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RGB 444 would only be significant for things like PC and OSSC though right? I would imagine everything else would be 4:2:0 ?
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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 8:28 pm 


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The 18gpbs possible today with HDMI 2.0 are good enough for 4K 4:4:4, but they're not enough for HDR 4:4:4. So any non-HDR gaming source should be 4:4:4 - including 4K60.


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 8:48 pm 


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Alright I'll have to confess I don't understand what you mean here... for example 1080p blu ray has never been 4:4:4 so what benefit is it to force the TV into 4:4:4 if that's never coming from your source (unless the source IS a 4:4:4 device like a PC)

Is 4K RGB from a PS4 4:4:4, for instance?
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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 10:11 pm 


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Just for non-movie sources of course. Movies are all 4:2:0, doesn't matter which media.

On the PS4 you can choose between 4K 4:4:4 and 4K 4:2:0 yourself. The former doesn't, while the later does support HDR.

4:4:4 on OLEDs is not THIS critical, since the panels don't have a full 4:4:4 pixel structure anyway, but 4:2:0 is giving away half the vertical resolution as well whenever red is involved and that's something you might not want. And it shows if you know what to look for.

Quote:
Is 4K RGB from a PS4 4:4:4, for instance?

RGB is always 4:4:4. YCbCr can be both. HDR is available in YCbCr only.


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 10:21 pm 


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Quote:
RGB is always 4:4:4. YCbCr can be both. HDR is available in YCbCr only.


Ah ok I get you I'd misunderstood that.

Anyway, certainly PC mode seems to get colour gamut right as far as I can see.
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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 10:35 pm 


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What is the input lag in PC mode on the C9? Rtings mentions that it's higher than in Gamemode, but didn't publish the actual numbers.

It would also be interesting to learn at which stage the color resolution is reduced. During the input and processing or after the upscaling? This makes quite a difference on lower res signals. Input 720p with straight conversion to 4:2:2 and you get 640 columns that are upscaled to 3860. Input 720p at 4:4:4 when the color resolution is only reduced after upscaling and you get 1920px res which is enough to retain the full horizontal 720p resolution.


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 10:52 pm 


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Fudoh wrote:
4:4:4 on OLEDs is not THIS critical, since the panels don't have a full 4:4:4 pixel structure anyway


Is the RGBW pixel layout affecting this? I mean there's still a subpixel for each primary in every group, nothing like PenTile going on...


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 11:09 pm 


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only very slightly in close up. Due to the horizontal orientation and basically the white sub pixel in between the RGB arrays you get a tiny bit of a screen door effect on less satured colors with small details. I think the only people every complaining about this are people using 55" as PC monitors.


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 11:57 am 


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Quote:
What is the input lag in PC mode on the C9? Rtings mentions that it's higher than in Gamemode, but didn't publish the actual numbers.


I got 20ms with the time sleuth, of course now you can go PC mode and Game Mode together this is moot I think.
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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 4:07 pm 



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I am calibrating and adjusting settings right now. So if I want RGB444 AND low input lag for my gaming, I need to do the PC icon trick AND set the Picture Mode to Game Mode?

BuckA51, would you mind sharing your settings for Game Mode? Konsolkongen's guide earlier was for a different mode.


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 5:15 pm 


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Quote:
I am calibrating and adjusting settings right now. So if I want RGB444 AND low input lag for my gaming, I need to do the PC icon trick AND set the Picture Mode to Game Mode?


That seems to be the case, yes.

I used basically the same settings as Konsolkongen but with PC mode and game mode. I think I used colour temp to normal or whatever it's called (not warm and not cool) but that was purely a preference as I've not done detailed calibration yet.
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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 5:24 pm 



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Quote:
That seems to be the case, yes.

I used basically the same settings as Konsolkongen but with PC mode and game mode. I think I used colour temp to normal or whatever it's called (not warm and not cool) but that was purely a preference as I've not done detailed calibration yet.


Huh, ok - I will have to give those settings a try. Are you satisfied with those settings with 1080p content? A very important console for me right now is the Nintendo Switch, and my settings (so far) just don't like very good. My 1080p Sony Bravia was way, way crisper - text and edges were well defined, the picture overall was just cleaner and not fuzzy. I am not getting any of that right now.

Is this just a problem with 1080p and 4k sets?


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 5:40 pm 


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Fudoh wrote:
It would also be interesting to learn at which stage the color resolution is reduced. During the input and processing or after the upscaling? This makes quite a difference on lower res signals. Input 720p with straight conversion to 4:2:2 and you get 640 columns that are upscaled to 3860. Input 720p at 4:4:4 when the color resolution is only reduced after upscaling and you get 1920px res which is enough to retain the full horizontal 720p resolution.


On C7 and C8 it happens at the input stage, so it's very noticeable on 720p content. On the selection screen of the SNES mini for example, the Super Nintendo-logos on the box art is almost unreadable.

Fudoh wrote:
I used basically the same settings as Konsolkongen but with PC mode and game mode. I think I used colour temp to normal or whatever it's called (not warm and not cool) but that was purely a preference as I've not done detailed calibration yet.


On C7 and C8 the Warm 2 setting was the closest to a white balance setting of D65. Of course this could have changed on the C9, but on every TV I have ever calibrated some kind of "Warm" setting was the most correct. I use an i1 Display Pro to calibrate mine.

Thank you for confirming that PC mode + Game mode reduces the lag. Do this still resolve full RGB444 then?


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 8:36 am 


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Quote:
Thank you for confirming that PC mode + Game mode reduces the lag. Do this still resolve full RGB444 then?


As far as I can tell but I'm running a limited setup right now basically just have a SNES Jr and C64 so not the best systems to check against. Once the furniture is in I can try with a PC and some little text.

Quote:
On C7 and C8 the Warm 2 setting was the closest to a white balance setting of D65. Of course this could have changed on the C9, but on every TV I have ever calibrated some kind of "Warm" setting was the most correct. I use an i1 Display Pro to calibrate mine.


Warm 1 and 2 just make whites look yellow to me, I guess I'm just used to a lifetime of incorrectly calibrated TVs :lol:

Quote:
Is this just a problem with 1080p and 4k sets?


Definitely shouldn't be, 4k is just double 1080p so easy to scale to. You have turned sharpness down to 0, correct?
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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 5:52 pm 



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Konsolkongen, in your guide, you have two sets of settings: one for SDR and one for HDR. Is there a way to set these settings for one input and have the TV auto select which one to use based on the source?


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 6:12 pm 



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I have a feeling my question is malformed, so hopefully someone can straighten me out.


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 6:25 pm 


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The TV will automatically switch modes according to whether the input is SDR or HDR. That's how it's been on C7 and C8 and I can't imagine that the C9 would do this any differently :)

Quote:
Warm 1 and 2 just make whites look yellow to me, I guess I'm just used to a lifetime of incorrectly calibrated TVs :lol:


This is definitely true. Back when I first calibrated my TV using a colormeter it took more than a month for me to get used to the results. Now I can't stand seeing other peoples TVs, they are just too blue! :D


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 11:29 pm 



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But when I adjust the settings for any of my inputs, I am not seeing an option for SDR or HDR. I am not seeing two sets of inputs for each setting.


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 12:43 am 


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No, you’ll need to actually feed the TV an HDR source to be able to adjust these settings.


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 9:33 am 


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The C9 remembers settings based on different resolutions too, so if you feed e.g a HDMI switch with 720p from an OSSC or Xbox 360 or something and then 1080p from your Nintendo Switch you will need to calibrate both.
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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:10 pm 


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How are you enjoying your c9, Windfish? I admire the go-getter attitude. You asked for a recommendation and you were rock n rolling. You were presented with high end expensive models and besides a little floundering on the lower b8/c8 you decided to go for it on the c9. A big decision at the drop of a hat. I dig it.

Mine finally arrived and I am having a ton of fun with it. I spent the last 2 days trying to get earc to work with my denon 3500h. Without proper support plex attempts to transcode dts-hd and it just keep giving a jumble of colors on the screen as I can only guess the transcoding is causing lag. I can't figure out why they don't pair.

I'm still playing with settings. Motion handling looks so much different than plasma. It's a hard adjustment coming off 10 years of experiencing motion on plasma. I'm not sure if it's just something I'll have to get used to. I've been trying the trumotion settings but anything above 0 looks like crap. Hoping I find a compromise.

I'm going to try out pc mode later on and see how that works. I have splitters setup already to feed my various video processors so I was thinking of giving pc mode it's own hdmi input if auto switching can't be done.

It's an amazing TV. I'll have to do some more gaming to give my thoughts on that but initial thoughts are that it's the best gaming experience I've ever had on a modern TV. 65" may be a bit big for these kinds of games. That might just be my perspective because I've been going strong on my 20" Pvm this last year.

Any other useful tips or tricks any of may you know for setting up the display?


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 Post subject: Re: Need 65" TV with low input lag? Any suggestions?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:10 pm 


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I really liked the motionflow on Sony's sets, just enough to double 24 to 48hz looked really nice to me, but everyone seems to say the interframe creation stuff on the LGs isn't up to much.

still haven't tried a blu ray as I still have no furniture in here. the TV is perched on two Extron Crosspoints :D
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