shmups.system11.org

Shmups Forum
 
* FAQ    * Search
 * Register  * Login 
It is currently Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:56 am View unanswered posts
View active topics



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 131 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: component wii question
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:03 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 31 Oct 2016
Posts: 438
Location: n/america
i've been using my wii component cables to hook up to my projector with a component to vga adpater. gamecube games look really good this way, but the wii games look blurry. i'm especially having trouble with goldeneye. it's kinda hard to see stuff i'm trying to shoot.

both the gamecube and wii games i am playing are 480p out, so i can't imagine it's a quick of the projector. any ideas to clear up the image without buying an xrgb type device?

swear i'm not imagining this. it's something weird with gamecube out vs wii out i think. i guess i can screenshot when i get home later if i need to prove it. :)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: component wii question
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:12 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 01 Dec 2006
Posts: 2045
vol.2 wrote:
i've been using my wii component cables to hook up to my projector with a component to vga adpater. gamecube games look really good this way, but the wii games look blurry.


Yeah, that's a known issue, either play the games on a CRT in 480i, or get the WiiDual mod.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: component wii question
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:05 pm 



Joined: 11 Sep 2014
Posts: 870
I suspect it is more likely an issue related to how the projector handles a 480i signal.

I use my Wii on my PS3 monitor (which is a 1080p flatscreen) through component and it is very clear on games that are natively 480i.

Games that are natively 480p or 240p tend to look blurry in 480i and there is no way around this besides a quality upscaling device.

As a general point, if you look at the same game side by side in 480i vs 480p, the 480p one will look clearer as it's double the framerate.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: component wii question
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:17 am 


User avatar

Joined: 31 Oct 2016
Posts: 438
Location: n/america
Lawfer wrote:
vol.2 wrote:
i've been using my wii component cables to hook up to my projector with a component to vga adpater. gamecube games look really good this way, but the wii games look blurry.


Yeah, that's a known issue, either play the games on a CRT in 480i, or get the WiiDual mod.


ok. thanks for confirming my sanity. :)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: component wii question
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:17 am 


User avatar

Joined: 31 Oct 2016
Posts: 438
Location: n/america
Classicgamer wrote:
I suspect it is more likely an issue related to how the projector handles a 480i signal.

I use my Wii on my PS3 monitor (which is a 1080p flatscreen) through component and it is very clear on games that are natively 480i.

Games that are natively 480p or 240p tend to look blurry in 480i and there is no way around this besides a quality upscaling device.

As a general point, if you look at the same game side by side in 480i vs 480p, the 480p one will look clearer as it's double the framerate.


it's 480p, thanks for the reply tho :)


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: component wii question
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:13 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 2011
Posts: 259
Gamecube hardware has slightly sharper component video than the Wii.

Also try disabling widescreen if you're using it. 480p is still natively a 4:3 based mode.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: component wii question
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:21 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 31 Oct 2016
Posts: 438
Location: n/america
theclaw wrote:
Gamecube hardware has slightly sharper component video than the Wii.

Also try disabling widescreen if you're using it. 480p is still natively a 4:3 based mode.


ok. thanks for tip. i'll try forcing everything into 4:3 and see how it looks!

as far as the Gamecube vs. Wii hardware goes; I'm using the Wii to play both; were you thinking I was using a separate actual gamecube with gamecube component, or are you saying that you think by playing a gamecube game through my wii, it's making use of a different processor or video output than it does when i play a wii game?

best,


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: component wii question
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:03 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 633
In my experience the difference is minimal, if even perceptible, especially if you're using a non-launch Wii, which is supposed to have slightly better video output.


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: component wii question
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:11 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 31 Oct 2016
Posts: 438
Location: n/america
fernan1234 wrote:
In my experience the difference is minimal, if even perceptible, especially if you're using a non-launch Wii, which is supposed to have slightly better video output.


difference of what exactly? do you mean 4:3 vs widescreen?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: component wii question
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:33 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 633
vol.2 wrote:
fernan1234 wrote:
In my experience the difference is minimal, if even perceptible, especially if you're using a non-launch Wii, which is supposed to have slightly better video output.


difference of what exactly? do you mean 4:3 vs widescreen?


That was replying to the previous post regarding GC games through GC component vs. GC games through Wii component.


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: component wii question
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:45 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 01 Dec 2006
Posts: 2045
vol.2 wrote:
fernan1234 wrote:
In my experience the difference is minimal, if even perceptible, especially if you're using a non-launch Wii, which is supposed to have slightly better video output.


difference of what exactly? do you mean 4:3 vs widescreen?


By "non-launch Wii", he means the later ones that came out in 2012 and he means that 480p is a little improved on these.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: component wii question
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 9:44 pm 



Joined: 07 Apr 2016
Posts: 1313
Lawfer wrote:
vol.2 wrote:
fernan1234 wrote:
In my experience the difference is minimal, if even perceptible, especially if you're using a non-launch Wii, which is supposed to have slightly better video output.


difference of what exactly? do you mean 4:3 vs widescreen?


By "non-launch Wii", he means the later ones that came out in 2012 and he means that 480p is a little improved on these.

Actually, the Wiis with the best video output started coming out in late 2010, if not earlier. Anything with 40 and above has the better picture quality.

01 - Launch Wii (2006) 6 Layer Board | Bad Picture Quality, Generates A Lot of Heat and Consumes A Lot of Electricity
10 - Early Wii (2007) 6 Layer Board | Bad Picture Quality, Generates A Lot of Heat and Consumes A Lot of Electricity
20 - Mid Wii (2008) 6 Layer Board | Bad Picture Quality, Generates A Lot of Heat and Consumes A Lot of Electricity
30 - Mid Wii (2009) 6 Layer Board | Bad Picture Quality, Generates A Lot of Heat and Consumes A Lot of Electricity
40 - Late Wii (Mid 2010) 4 Layer Board | Good Picture Quality, Generates Little and Consumes Little Electricity
60 - Late Wii (Late 2010) 4 Layer Board | Good Picture Quality, Generates Little Heat and Consumes Little Electricity
K01 - Family Wii (2011) 4 Layer Board | Good Picture Quality, Generates Little Heat and Consumes Little Electricity (NO GAMECUBE SUPPORT)
K02 - Family Wii (2011) 4 Layer Board | Good Picture Quality, Generates Little Heat and Consumes Little Electricity (NO GAMECUBE SUPPORT)
Mini - Wii Mini (2012) Composite Video Only, Can't Be Hacked, No SD Card, Internet, etc. (NO GAMECUBE SUPPORT)

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/wii/93075 ... o-wii/data
http://forums.modretro.com/index.php?th ... ide.14059/
https://bitbuilt.net/forums/index.php?t ... guide.863/


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: component wii question
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:01 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 31 Oct 2016
Posts: 438
Location: n/america
fernan1234 wrote:
vol.2 wrote:

difference of what exactly? do you mean 4:3 vs widescreen?


That was replying to the previous post regarding GC games through GC component vs. GC games through Wii component.


cool. thanks for the clarification.

Lawfer wrote:

By "non-launch Wii", he means the later ones that came out in 2012 and he means that 480p is a little improved on these.


gotcha. thanks.

GeneraLight wrote:
Actually, the Wiis with the best video output started coming out in late 2010, if not earlier. Anything with 40 and above has the better picture quality.

01 - Launch Wii (2006) 6 Layer Board | Bad Picture Quality, Generates A Lot of Heat and Consumes A Lot of Electricity
10 - Early Wii (2007) 6 Layer Board | Bad Picture Quality, Generates A Lot of Heat and Consumes A Lot of Electricity
20 - Mid Wii (2008) 6 Layer Board | Bad Picture Quality, Generates A Lot of Heat and Consumes A Lot of Electricity
30 - Mid Wii (2009) 6 Layer Board | Bad Picture Quality, Generates A Lot of Heat and Consumes A Lot of Electricity
40 - Late Wii (Mid 2010) 4 Layer Board | Good Picture Quality, Generates Little and Consumes Little Electricity
60 - Late Wii (Late 2010) 4 Layer Board | Good Picture Quality, Generates Little Heat and Consumes Little Electricity
K01 - Family Wii (2011) 4 Layer Board | Good Picture Quality, Generates Little Heat and Consumes Little Electricity (NO GAMECUBE SUPPORT)
K02 - Family Wii (2011) 4 Layer Board | Good Picture Quality, Generates Little Heat and Consumes Little Electricity (NO GAMECUBE SUPPORT)
Mini - Wii Mini (2012) Composite Video Only, Can't Be Hacked, No SD Card, Internet, etc. (NO GAMECUBE SUPPORT)

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/wii/93075 ... o-wii/data
http://forums.modretro.com/index.php?th ... ide.14059/
https://bitbuilt.net/forums/index.php?t ... guide.863/


awesome. i'll check out which one i have as well. i suspect it's a super-early one though. i got it from someone who bought one early on


thanks again for everyone's input! :D


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: component wii question
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:55 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 633
Lawfer is right that the difference, if any, is only on 480p. I have an early Wii (10) and later one (40) and on 480i (and 240p) they look just as good through component.


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: component wii question
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:25 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 30 Apr 2012
Posts: 2291
Location: Kentucky
To clarify with an actual explanation, Extrems has said that the video encoder on the earlier Wii's is bandwidth-limited and can't resolve the full detail of 480p. Hence why 480i should look the same between all models, but 480p is improved on the newer ones with a higher-bandwidth encoder.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: component wii question
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:43 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 31 Oct 2016
Posts: 438
Location: n/america
bobrocks95 wrote:
To clarify with an actual explanation, Extrems has said that the video encoder on the earlier Wii's is bandwidth-limited and can't resolve the full detail of 480p. Hence why 480i should look the same between all models, but 480p is improved on the newer ones with a higher-bandwidth encoder.


that would definitely explain the fuzzy quality of the image. but it wouldn't explain why the gamecube stuff seems to look okay through 480p. unless it was using less bandwidth in it's own progressive mode?


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: component wii question
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:47 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 30 Jan 2016
Posts: 376
It's analog bandwidth. There's a SDTV LPF inappropriately applied to EDTV.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: component wii question
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:17 am 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 633
That's interesting. EDTV was a weird short-lived thing. I was never really a fan of 480p on any of the Nintendo consoles, they just never got it right. In fact I've only seen a couple of devices that could output a nice-looking 480p image.


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: component wii question
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:27 am 


User avatar

Joined: 31 Oct 2016
Posts: 438
Location: n/america
well I'll be damned. 480i looks better, and 4:3 looks better as well. but it's still kinda soft compared to gamecube content.
games like killer7 and RE Zero look really sharp. i guess i just have to hope there are some more WiiDual kits made sometime soon


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: component wii question
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:39 am 


User avatar

Joined: 30 Jan 2016
Posts: 376
Those games don't use horizontal scaling. That might be why they seem sharper.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: component wii question
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:40 am 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 633
Welcome to the 480i fan club :D For so many years people have sworn that 480p is what you should do for GC/Wii, but I think they're dead wrong about that, at least on CRTs (and projectors too it seems).

Also with the exception of a couple of pro monitors, 16:9 can use less TV lines than 4:3, which is why 4:3 will also look better/sharper. Maybe something similar goes on with your projector. Very few of these games took proper advantage of 16:9 anyway so it hardly matters.


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: component wii question
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:11 am 


User avatar

Joined: 01 Dec 2006
Posts: 2045
vol.2 wrote:
bobrocks95 wrote:
To clarify with an actual explanation, Extrems has said that the video encoder on the earlier Wii's is bandwidth-limited and can't resolve the full detail of 480p. Hence why 480i should look the same between all models, but 480p is improved on the newer ones with a higher-bandwidth encoder.


that would definitely explain the fuzzy quality of the image. but it wouldn't explain why the gamecube stuff seems to look okay through 480p. unless it was using less bandwidth in it's own progressive mode?


GameCube games are based on GameCube hardware while Wii games are based on Wii hardware, when playing a Wii game you will have a blurrier picture because that is how the Wii hardware make the games look, the only thing you can do to diminish this is either choose 480i with 4:3 and play on a CRT or get a WiiDual (oh and also, early Wiis can't have the WiiDual installed on them, only CPU-40 ones and forward can).

Also some games will look better in 16:9 than others, most Wii games are natively 4:3, while a few games such as Xenoblade Chronicles, Arc Rise Fantasia, Pandora's Tower and a few others are anamorphic widescreen.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: component wii question
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:45 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 30 Jan 2016
Posts: 376
Lawfer wrote:
GameCube games are based on GameCube hardware while Wii games are based on Wii hardware, when playing a Wii game you will have a blurrier picture because that is how the Wii hardware make the games look

This is complete nonsense.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: component wii question
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:29 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 05 Mar 2018
Posts: 926
fernan1234 wrote:
Welcome to the 480i fan club :D For so many years people have sworn that 480p is what you should do for GC/Wii, but I think they're dead wrong about that, at least on CRTs (and projectors too it seems).

Also with the exception of a couple of pro monitors, 16:9 can use less TV lines than 4:3, which is why 4:3 will also look better/sharper. Maybe something similar goes on with your projector. Very few of these games took proper advantage of 16:9 anyway so it hardly matters.

uh are you basing this on Wii only?

because my gamecube games, through a gamecube, look amazing at 480p on a CRT


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: component wii question
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:53 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 01 Dec 2006
Posts: 2045
Extrems wrote:
Lawfer wrote:
GameCube games are based on GameCube hardware while Wii games are based on Wii hardware, when playing a Wii game you will have a blurrier picture because that is how the Wii hardware make the games look

This is complete nonsense.


When playing GameCube games on Wii and playing Wii games on Wii, you can clearly see that the output quality is inequal between each one, GameCube games have an increased clarity over Wii games.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: component wii question
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:10 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 633
maxtherabbit wrote:
uh are you basing this on Wii only?

because my gamecube games, through a gamecube, look amazing at 480p on a CRT


Oh, don't get me wrong, GC 480p (and GC games through Wii 480p too IMO) can look damn nice on the right monitor/TV. I just think 480i looks even better, though I only made comparisons of a GC on a calibrated high end BVM when I borrowed a GC with original component cable, since I never owned one myself. Perhaps on other monitors or consumer sets 480p may look better in some ways, but I never saw this myself.

You have to remember that 480i and 480p are the same resolution, just presented via different means. And CRTs historically functioned to present an interlaced image (of which 240p is a crazy hack). EDTV/480p was just kinda tacked on toward the end of the CRT production cycle (at the consumer level at least). My suspicion is that the popularity of 480p for GC/Wii largely comes from a time when most people were forcing themselves into LCDs, which also had crappy deinterlacing.


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: component wii question
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:15 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 30 Jan 2016
Posts: 376
Lawfer wrote:
When playing GameCube games on Wii and playing Wii games on Wii, you can clearly see that the output quality is inequal between each one, GameCube games have an increased clarity over Wii games.

Changing development practices have nothing to do with GC/Wii.

See how Nintendo has evolved during the GameCube's lifetime: https://www.gc-forever.com/wiki/index.php?title=Swiss/Forced_Progressive_Compatibility_List#NTSC-U_game_list


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: component wii question
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:18 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 30 Jan 2016
Posts: 376
fernan1234 wrote:
You have to remember that 480i and 480p are the same resolution, just presented via different means.

Unlike 480p, 480i has a vertical low-pass filter applied (deflickering). You're losing either way on a Wii.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: component wii question
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:22 pm 



Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 633
Extrems wrote:
Unlike 480p, 480i has a vertical low-pass filter applied (deflickering). You're losing either way on a Wii.


Could be wrong and I'd defer to your knowledge on this, but I remember reading that 480p has a softening filter of its own (and not just due to the issue on earlier Wiis). To my eyes, I can see that it's there. I've done comparisons both on early NTSC component, PAL RGB, and a WiiDual, and I still like 480i over 480p for GC games way more. Maybe it's that the monitor I use is just that much better at 480i...


Top
 Online Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: component wii question
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:27 pm 


User avatar

Joined: 30 Jan 2016
Posts: 376
At the baseline, there's no softening filter, it's perfectly sharp.


Top
 Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 131 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: bigbadboaz, Cloudmp, fernan1234, tongshadow and 10 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Space Pilot 3K template by Jakob Persson
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group