Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)

The place for all discussion on gaming hardware
Post Reply
User avatar
evil_ash_xero
Posts: 6181
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:33 am
Location: Where the fish lives

Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)

Post by evil_ash_xero »

Anyone have an image of the scanlines at 480?

Any idea of they'll fix the issue?

I just updated the firmware to my Super NT Mini, and now I can only have the color changing light, or the white light. Screwy.
User avatar
Fudoh
Posts: 13015
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)

Post by Fudoh »

Can someone chime in on the interpolation? Is it about the same as Super NT's? That's pretty crucial for me.
yes, the scaling options are identical. The MD usually uses a higher horizontal resolution (320 px instead of 256 px), so in terms of resolution the MD looks a bit better.
Also, from just glancing at some of the posts, there's problems with 480 scanlines?
no, they look fine. 720p is bugged.
Is there ever going to be a method for scanlines to look as good as they do as 720p when using 1080p output?
can be done with shaders and maybe by altering the processing order of "scanlining" versus scaling versus interpolating.

In my opinion the key to proper scanlines is scaling. 720p scanlines look good because the display is rescaling the machine's output, but this scaling could be moved to the system instead. Another good start would be not to use just single a single line for the scanlines on 4x or 5x output. Everything manageable in software.
User avatar
evil_ash_xero
Posts: 6181
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:33 am
Location: Where the fish lives

Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)

Post by evil_ash_xero »

Fudoh wrote:
Can someone chime in on the interpolation? Is it about the same as Super NT's? That's pretty crucial for me.
yes, the scaling options are identical. The MD usually uses a higher horizontal resolution (320 px instead of 256 px), so in terms of resolution the MD looks a bit better.
Also, from just glancing at some of the posts, there's problems with 480 scanlines?
no, they look fine. 720p is bugged.
Is there ever going to be a method for scanlines to look as good as they do as 720p when using 1080p output?
can be done with shaders and maybe by altering the processing order of "scanlining" versus scaling versus interpolating.

In my opinion the key to proper scanlines is scaling. 720p scanlines look good because the display is rescaling the machine's output, but this scaling could be moved to the system instead. Another good start would be not to use just single a single line for the scanlines on 4x or 5x output. Everything manageable in software.
Thanks.
User avatar
donluca
Posts: 852
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2015 8:51 pm
Location: Italy
Contact:

Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)

Post by donluca »

Out of curiosity, is there a way to change the scanline thickness?

I've seen several devices just alternating the scanlines which to me is perfectly fine when line doubling, but for 4x is dead wrong.

To make this clear, if you have a 480p output it should be like


V
S

V
S


where V = video line and S = scan line

but for 4x, 960p output (or 1080p with black borders), it should be


V
V
S
S

V
V
S
S

V
V
S
S

V
V
S
S


and not


V
S
V
S

V
S
V
S

V
S
V
S

V
S
V
S


Because this leads to scanlines which are too thin and just don't make any sense, IMHO, and still this is what I've seen most devices doing.
User avatar
Fudoh
Posts: 13015
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)

Post by Fudoh »

Out of curiosity, is there a way to change the scanline thickness?
no, you currently only get single line scanlines, no matter what your output resolution is set to.
User avatar
FBX
Posts: 2347
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:18 am
Location: DFW area, Texas
Contact:

Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)

Post by FBX »

Fudoh wrote:
Out of curiosity, is there a way to change the scanline thickness?
no, you currently only get single line scanlines, no matter what your output resolution is set to.
Hence, people that gotta have scanlines will have to use 720p output for better ratios.
stuntman
Posts: 203
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:52 pm
Location: UK

Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)

Post by stuntman »

Anyone else notice a glitch in 480p resolution? There's sometimes a weird horizontal line top right of screen when the background scrolls (and some other cases). Can be produced using the 240P Test Suite scroll test. I've got to go out now, but will take a screenshot later if required.
Don't bomb. DON'T BOMB.
Damn! Should have bombed.
User avatar
Fudoh
Posts: 13015
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)

Post by Fudoh »

480p output is hardly useable atm, since a bug is preventing a horizontal integer 2x scale (320x2=640px) scale.
spmbx
Posts: 482
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2009 5:22 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)

Post by spmbx »

FBX wrote:
Fudoh wrote:
Out of curiosity, is there a way to change the scanline thickness?
no, you currently only get single line scanlines, no matter what your output resolution is set to.
Hence, people that gotta have scanlines will have to use 720p output for better ratios.
This is confusing, didnt i read a few posts back that 720p scanlines are broken?
User avatar
Fudoh
Posts: 13015
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)

Post by Fudoh »

not completely broken, but bugged. Doesn't change the fact that the output for halfway proper looking scanlines should always be 720p. If you're ok with rather light scanlines, then the bug on the SG won't even bother you and if you want stronger scanlines there's an easy (while not ideal) workaround.
User avatar
lettuce
Posts: 1334
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:10 pm
Location: Bedfordshire, England.

Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)

Post by lettuce »

Guess its almost impossible to have a 'HDMI scanline dongle' type device that would sit between the device and TV to add scanlines?
User avatar
Konsolkongen
Posts: 2309
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 8:28 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)

Post by Konsolkongen »

Is there an option to automatically force 60Hz on EU cartridges, or does this involve digging through menus each time?
User avatar
Fudoh
Posts: 13015
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)

Post by Fudoh »

Is there an option to automatically force 60Hz on EU cartridges, or does this involve digging through menus each time?
with the automatic region detection disabled, the video defaults to the set output resolution (and refresh), doesn't it ? Or was it vice versa ?
User avatar
Konsolkongen
Posts: 2309
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 8:28 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)

Post by Konsolkongen »

I don’t have one yet so I don’t know. But it would be a major oversight if it wasn’t able to switch automatically. I’m specifically thinking of those games that have to be booted in 50Hz and then switched to 60. Like the Konami games.

How did the Super Nt handle this?
spmbx
Posts: 482
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2009 5:22 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)

Post by spmbx »

lettuce wrote:Guess its almost impossible to have a 'HDMI scanline dongle' type device that would sit between the device and TV to add scanlines?
Not sure if you’re serious, but if you google for “hdmi scanline generator” you can have one for a few bucks.
borti4938

Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)

Post by borti4938 »

Konsolkongen wrote:How did the Super Nt handle this?
The SuperNt does nothing to circumvent register region locks. You can just switch between PAL and NTSC but then you are stucked with 50Hz or 60Hz gameplay, respectively. Some games check for region periodically so you cannot even change it after initial checkup. Other games even don't have the region check; with these games you are lucky.
In my opinion this is not region free! I pointed that out very early - even before release with the first reviews - on several points (forum, mail to Analogue, pn to Kevtris, etc.) but nobody cares until now.
copy
Posts: 232
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:38 pm

Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)

Post by copy »

Wolf_
Posts: 387
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)

Post by Wolf_ »

supports colecovision wtf
User avatar
Lawfer
Posts: 2283
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:30 am

Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)

Post by Lawfer »

Well that was fast, thank you very much.
fernan1234
Posts: 2175
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2017 8:34 pm

Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)

Post by fernan1234 »

Jailbreak for these clone consoles is a given. I bet most people who bought were willing to pay their price under the assumption that there's going to be a jailbreak.

It is nice that it's out so quickly though, and the colecovision stuff is a neat bone to throw. It's also a reminder that many other cores could fit in there.
User avatar
Fudoh
Posts: 13015
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)

Post by Fudoh »

Does anybody know if japanese Mark III carts work using the Retrofreak Mark III to MD adapter ?
Wolf_
Posts: 387
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)

Post by Wolf_ »

I told myself I would never buy another Analogue product after they didn't port the nt mini cores to the SNT (preservationists my ass, they don't even sell the Nt mini anymore) but if the MSG gets the rest of them I'll pick it up.
User avatar
Konsolkongen
Posts: 2309
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 8:28 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)

Post by Konsolkongen »

borti4938 wrote:
Konsolkongen wrote:How did the Super Nt handle this?
The SuperNt does nothing to circumvent register region locks. You can just switch between PAL and NTSC but then you are stucked with 50Hz or 60Hz gameplay, respectively. Some games check for region periodically so you cannot even change it after initial checkup. Other games even don't have the region check; with these games you are lucky.
In my opinion this is not region free! I pointed that out very early - even before release with the first reviews - on several points (forum, mail to Analogue, pn to Kevtris, etc.) but nobody cares until now.
That’s insane :( Maybe this is something that could be corrected in the jailbreak firmware?
User avatar
ApolloBoy
Posts: 938
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:17 pm
Location: San Jose, CA

Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)

Post by ApolloBoy »

Wolf_ wrote:
supports colecovision wtf
Holy shit I'm on it

EDIT: So I tried the jailbroken firmware and the CV core works very well. I think it's the same core used in the jailbroken Nt mini firmware so I'm not surprised. The one game I ran into problems with was Choplifter which had graphical glitches, but there are better ports of the game anyway. CV controllers also won't work (which might be fortunate or unfortunate depending on how you view the CV controllers), but you can use the Y and Z buttons with the D-pad to simulate keypad buttons.
User avatar
mikejmoffitt
Posts: 629
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 7:26 am
Location: Tokyo, Japan

Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)

Post by mikejmoffitt »

This "jailbreak" that "definitely came from a third party" seems to work well. My only complaint is that I was able to get it in a state where it wouldn't load any more games, and was stuck on a black screen, necessitating a power cycle. This has happened a few times.
Image
GameLifter
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:26 am

Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)

Post by GameLifter »

Has anyone run into any issues playing Sega CD games with a Model 2 attached to the Mega Sg? I regularly get a glitch with Final Fight CD where the sprites for the enemies or my character freeze which then prevents me from continuing the game. Also, when Silpheed crashes (which is does regularly on original hardware as well) instead of taking me back to the menu and giving me an extra life and letting me continue with the game like it should it just gives me a black screen. My Model 2 Sega CD could very well be dying but all the other Sega CD games I've tried on it work perfectly so I'm curious if there are others who have experienced odd glitches with Sega CD games on the Mega Sg.
User avatar
Herr Schatten
Posts: 3259
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 12:14 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)

Post by Herr Schatten »

GameLifter wrote:Has anyone run into any issues playing Sega CD games with a Model 2 attached to the Mega Sg?
I have a Mega CD 2 attached and I haven‘t experienced problems like those. I only have 3 CD games to test, though, namely Keio Flying Squadron, Lords of Thunder, and Robo Aleste. These all seem to work fine, but I haven‘t played them all the way through. It‘s possible they glitch later on.

The only glitches in connection with the Mega CD were in a couple of Master System games, but the latest firmware seems to have fixed that problem.

I do have a different problem. I can‘t select 720p or 480p, even though the Mega SG states that my screen supports them right underneath the options. I can‘t select anything else than 1080p.
User avatar
Fudoh
Posts: 13015
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 3:29 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)

Post by Fudoh »

I do have a different problem. I can‘t select 720p or 480p, even though the Mega SG states that my screen supports them right underneath the options. I can‘t select anything else than 1080p.
Contrary to everything else in the menu you have to select the resolution using the START button. Maybe you just missed this?
User avatar
Herr Schatten
Posts: 3259
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 12:14 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)

Post by Herr Schatten »

Fudoh wrote:Contrary to everything else in the menu you have to select the resolution using the START button. Maybe you just missed this?
Indeed I did. Thank you for pointing it out.
Galgomite
Posts: 197
Joined: Fri May 17, 2013 6:32 pm
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

Re: Mega Sg (FPGA Genesis)

Post by Galgomite »

GameLifter wrote:Has anyone run into any issues playing Sega CD games with a Model 2 attached to the Mega Sg? I regularly get a glitch with Final Fight CD where the sprites for the enemies or my character freeze which then prevents me from continuing the game. Also, when Silpheed crashes (which is does regularly on original hardware as well) instead of taking me back to the menu and giving me an extra life and letting me continue with the game like it should it just gives me a black screen. My Model 2 Sega CD could very well be dying but all the other Sega CD games I've tried on it work perfectly so I'm curious if there are others who have experienced odd glitches with Sega CD games on the Mega Sg.
I do not have my SG hooked up to a Sega CD but Smokemonster mentioned a few bugs different from yours (the two I can recall are Mickey Mania and something in Snatcher--bummer!). It might be a good idea to shoot Analogue a message with your particular games' issues, this is probably their time to continue squashing bugs,
Post Reply