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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:17 pm 



Joined: 11 Nov 2013
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So does the new firmware work?


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:21 pm 


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tusecsy wrote:
With the new firmware being released today is it advisable to update with the firebrandx mod installed? Won't it now reverse the reversed audio so it's back to incorrect?


No worries here. My guide is based on if the channel-swapping firmware had been released months ago. I didn't anticipate people having to wait this long. So you're good to update the firmware if you followed my installation guide.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:27 am 


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Terraonion is being a bit weird about how they release this but it's an open secret at this point.

Ssds3 with integrated FU-RGB and firebrandx audio board is coming soon. The new pcbs will be in this week. All new orders placed will be receiving the updated version.

Rejoice if you held out! If you haven't modded your existing unit yet you should get on it. FU-RGB is almost out of stock. Future runs will be more expensive. The audio board makes the biggest difference but you may as well do both. Update your firmware as well. Fixed stereo sound is in.

No there will not be a recall of the old boards nor will there be a discount/coupon for existing buyers.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:53 pm 



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Gara wrote:
Terraonion is being a bit weird about how they release this but it's an open secret at this point.

Ssds3 with integrated FU-RGB and firebrandx audio board is coming soon. The new pcbs will be in this week. All new orders placed will be receiving the updated version.


Can you clarify this statement? Is Terraonion themselves releasing a new SSDS3 which has the FU-RGB and audio board already installed?


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:56 pm 


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Dochartaigh wrote:
Gara wrote:
Terraonion is being a bit weird about how they release this but it's an open secret at this point.

Ssds3 with integrated FU-RGB and firebrandx audio board is coming soon. The new pcbs will be in this week. All new orders placed will be receiving the updated version.


Can you clarify this statement? Is Terraonion themselves releasing a new SSDS3 which has the FU-RGB and audio board already installed?

It is a new PCB revision that incorporates the improved circuits from those upgrade boards.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:14 pm 



Joined: 17 Feb 2016
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So RGB is not a bonus feature any more?


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:31 pm 



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the Goat wrote:
It is a new PCB revision that incorporates the improved circuits from those upgrade boards.


And it's being sold from Terraonion direct, as a replacement of their flawed previous design?


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:09 pm 


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Isn't there still some remaining noise on the CD audio even with FBX's excellent audio bypass? Will the new revision correct this too?
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:44 pm 



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Glad I held out on keeping one of these. But I'm not jumping on any revised PCB blindly after everything that's happened. Will wait for our pioneers to weigh in on it.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:12 pm 


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Dochartaigh wrote:
Gara wrote:
Terraonion is being a bit weird about how they release this but it's an open secret at this point.

Ssds3 with integrated FU-RGB and firebrandx audio board is coming soon. The new pcbs will be in this week. All new orders placed will be receiving the updated version.


Can you clarify this statement? Is Terraonion themselves releasing a new SSDS3 which has the FU-RGB and audio board already installed?


Correct. They are reversing their stance of no more revisions. With the help of multiple sources they incorporated the revised audio and video deigns into a new board. Voultar, Mobius, FirebrandX, and whoever else who contributed. Big thanks to them!

I'm sure they will catch hell for it but it's a good thing they are fixing it. All the research was done for them. Why not incorporate it into future batches.

BuckoA51 wrote:
Isn't there still some remaining noise on the CD audio even with FBX's excellent audio bypass? Will the new revision correct this too?


I've been asking about that. Mobius posted some oscilloscope comparisons showing it has the cleanest signal of any design so far. If that translates into real world differences is up for debate. From what I can gather there will be little to no difference over a modded ssds3 with the FU-RGB and FBX audio. I guess we will soon find out.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:01 am 



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Anyone know if that's the model stoneage gamer will be receiving in a few weeks?


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:41 am 


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It should be noted that the remaining buzz isn't coming from the audio circuit, but rather the SSDS3 board itself. I only recently discovered this doing more testing. If you pull directly from the DAC, and wire all of the analog audio parts on a separate board to separate outputs, there's no buzzing at all, even though you're still pulling power and ground from the SSDS3. This means the remaining buzzing noise is purely proximity EMI, and you can't get rid of it without a completely new design approach from the foundation up.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:50 am 



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Mobiusstriptech wrote:
rayik wrote:
Mobiusstriptech wrote:
Yes to both questions. The two circuits will very likely interfere with each other. I tested this on a few consoles and the video output was negatively impacted on both sides.


Thanks. Since I have a nodded TG16 I will not install the fu-rgb


In that case, you will want to remove the RGBS pins from the SSDS3. Otherwise it will still affect your internal mod.


TL:TR - I should have listened to Mobiusstriptech. Installing fu-rgb adversely effected video from internal video mod.

Long: Had no video problems at all using internal mod with the SSDS3. Figured since video was fine, could install the fu-rgb board without any adverse effects. With the fu-rgb board installed, there was a subtle "shimmering effect" on solid backgrounds when playing a game. It was almost as if there were small "sparkles" that would very briefly and randomly flash. If you paused the game, the picture was perfect. However in playing the game it was subtle and annoying. This was not there before installing the fu-rgb. Disconnected the fu-rgb and all is good. Since I want to be have the ability to use the SSDS3 on a non-modded unit, I'm going to get a 4PST mini switch to be able to connect / disconnect R G B Sync from the pins to the fu-rgb.

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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:10 pm 



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Gara wrote:
Correct. They are reversing their stance of no more revisions. With the help of multiple sources they incorporated the revised audio and video deigns into a new board. Voultar, Mobius, FirebrandX, and whoever else who contributed. Big thanks to them!

I'm sure they will catch hell for it but it's a good thing they are fixing it. All the research was done for them. Why not incorporate it into future batches.


I've gone back and forth on even posting this...since if I posted the same on Neo-Geo there would very likely be a severe backlash for saying anything non-positive about Terraonion, and if I posted this on the Terraonion forum they would probably erase my post like I recently saw them do to another well-articulated customer who had a problem...but I feel like this still has to be said:

Does this seem completely messed-up to anybody else, or is it just me?

I mean, it's good they're going to finally fix their previously flawed product they released, but I ONLY purchased the still-flawed ~$300usd SSDS3 because: A.) there is NO other device which plays hucard AND disc games, and B.) because Terraonion ADAMANTLY, and I mean swore left and right, repeatedly, over and over again, that they would NEVER, EVER, under ANY circumstances redesign the board to fix these issues.

So now here are a TON of customers who caved in and bought their flawed product because they thought (because of Terraonion's own words and actions) "this is the best it will ever get", and now, again, they (for lack of a nicer way to put this) screw those customers over.

And yes, I know this is a bit convoluted to say that fixing it is a bad thing in any way, but the fact of the matter is for those of us who have a sub-par unit (which if they can't do the mods/fixes themselves just added ~$100 more to the already-high ~$300 price tag), it certainly is.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:33 pm 


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Dochartaigh wrote:
I ONLY purchased the still-flawed ~$300usd SSDS3 because: A.) there is NO other device which plays hucard AND disc games, and B.) because Terraonion ADAMANTLY, and I mean swore left and right, repeatedly, over and over again, that they would NEVER, EVER, under ANY circumstances redesign the board to fix these issues.


Yes, I feel the same. I only just purchased my SSDS3 two weeks ago, from Stone Age Gamer when they had them on sale for 10% off. I even though, "maybe they are liquidating old units because a new revision is coming." But I quickly dismissed that idea, because Terraonion had communicated in no uncertain terms that there would never ever be a new SSDS3 revision. I am significantly less than 100% happy with the situation with Terraonion and Stone Age Gamer. But at the end of the day it is not worth trying to get my money back.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:46 pm 



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This is kind of like the SD2SNES Pro discontent. To be fair, customers can also be "blamed" for being "impatient". I'm only patting myself in the back with the benefit of hindsight, but I was pretty sure that TO's claims about never revising the board were probably not true (as a business that's exactly what they should be expected to say), and in this case not believing them may pay off (though we still don't know if the new revision won't have its own problems).

Besides, people who bought the earlier version (myself included, though I sold it soon after) also have the opportunity to enjoy ODE emulation, albeit with flawed AV, before those who held out. And this is all assuming that this revised board will be available soon anyway. Has there even been official word anywhere? I did see that StoneAgeGamer has their out of stock listing for it as version 3.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:58 pm 


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fernan1234 wrote:
This is kind of like the SD2SNES Pro discontent.


It is similar but also fundamentally different. The communication regarding the SD2SNES doesn't have the feel of intentionally misleading to the customer. Where the SSDS3 communication does. Specifically, the SD2SNES Pro was announced before krikzz put the original SD2SNES on sale.

edit: In fact I would say the two situations are text book examples of the correct and incorrect ways to communicate "surprise" new product revision announcements to customers.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:06 pm 


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everyone knows by now that terraonion is completely full of shit, you believe anything they say at your own peril

that includes their claim that this new revision is "fixed"


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:07 pm 


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TO found themselves in a very bad spot where whatever they did, they would hurt someone.

If they decided to leave the SSD3 alone the company would take a hit and be forever stigmatized as "the company which makes flawed products". And, of course, this would have hurt future customers as well.

If the decided to make a new board revision they would hurt all their existing customers who have spent money on a flawed product.

It's a lose/lose situation.

If I had to choose, IMHO, if I had plans to release new devices, I'd have gone with the revised board plan otherwise that image of "company making flawed products" would never go away and will hurt the sales of future devices.

This way people will be wary of pre-ordering new products, will let other people dive in first but after that they would still get one.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:12 pm 


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maxtherabbit wrote:
everyone knows by now that terraonion is completely full of shit, you believe anything they say at your own peril

that includes their claim that this new revision is "fixed"


Right. There is a significant possibility that an older SSDS3 with FU-RGB and audio bypass will produce better output than the new "fixed" SSDS3 revision.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:05 pm 


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Quote:
There is a significant possibility that an older SSDS3 with FU-RGB and audio bypass will produce better output than the new "fixed" SSDS3 revision.

my thoughts exactly :mrgreen: Right now I feel safer with a modded "old" unit than with a new one. Still keeping my fingers crossed of course, since I wouldn't mind getting another one.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:23 am 


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Dochartaigh wrote:

Does this seem completely messed-up to anybody else, or is it just me?



It doesn't absolve Terraonion of anything but I think it's a good move to fix it. I can't think of any positives to them not implementing the fixes. The community got what it wanted. The win may be bitter sweet but it's still a win.

I think they have a long ways to go before anyone trusts what they say. They can't afford to lose early adopters so I hope they can earn that trust.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:36 am 



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As someone who recently purchased a revision 2 SSD3S I have no problem with TO releasing an improved version. I knew the problems with the unit when I decided to buy it. Would I have waited had I known there was a new version coming out, yes. But I choose to buy knowing what it was. Still, good for TO coming out with an improved version.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:47 pm 



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donluca wrote:
If the decided to make a new board revision they would hurt all their existing customers who have spent money on a flawed product.


That's a strange way to look at it. If this was generally true and relevant then wouldn't all products from all companies have be as bad as their most flawed products ever created?


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:59 pm 


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viletim wrote:
donluca wrote:
If the decided to make a new board revision they would hurt all their existing customers who have spent money on a flawed product.


That's a strange way to look at it. If this was generally true and relevant then wouldn't all products from all companies have be as bad as their most flawed products ever created?


No. It is generally understood that new product revisions are released over time with fixes and new features added. But in the SSDS3 case Terraonion explicitly stated that they would never issue a new version with fixes.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:23 pm 


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viletim wrote:
donluca wrote:
If the decided to make a new board revision they would hurt all their existing customers who have spent money on a flawed product.


That's a strange way to look at it. If this was generally true and relevant then wouldn't all products from all companies have be as bad as their most flawed products ever created?


Of course, but their general target isn't as... passionate, let's say, as the niche that is the retrogaming world.

One curious way of looking at the retrogaming environment is that there are no "low-end" solutions, we only have the equivalent of Ferrari and Lamborghini and you clearly understand how disappointed would be a user who's spent a lot of money on their high-tier product just to find out that is flawed.

If they made a new one soon after, the owners of the flawed version would be sorely disappointed, otherwise they'd live with it because there would be no alternative.

It's a strange market with an even stranger user base, the dynamics involved are very interesting.


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:06 am 



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Hello everyone,

This is Alex,

i just came today from a 600kms car drive after recording yesterday 13 hours of footage for a video where we are going to announce two new products. Once i arrived, i started to work on SSDS3 shipments, so we can save 1 day of waiting to our customers.

My partner told me about this post and once i finished my sunday TO work, i decided to have a look at it.

I have to say that a part of me feels ashamed and the other one feels sick after reading what some of you say/think about us.

I know you guys are not going to care, listen or believe what i have to say, but i am going to do it anyways.

First : We are retro gaming fans before anything else. We did Super SD System 3 cause it was a cool project (tech side) and cause we really wanted it. We had 0 hopes about this product selling half of what neosd sold or even it would sell anything at all.

Super SD System 3 was an act of love to the system since day one.

This vision we had about pcengine market, was the same that caused the RGB issue.

Here in Spain, PCE was never "anything" at all, i myself knew about PCE less than 10 years ago. Turbografx was a complete disaster here and before SSDS3 i didn't knew anyone here (in Spain) that had one or wanted one, among my friends circle. So we thought this project was going to be a commercial disaster, but we did it anyways cause we loved the system and loved the solution we had on mind.

Second : here in Spain, at least among my friends circle and the rest of the team´s circle, upscalers are not common, just because one reason : you can get a RGB capable TV for 20 euros everywhere, and in most cases you can get on for free cause people want to get rid of those. With a usual salary of 1.000 euros per month, who would buy an upscaler here.
90% of the tvs sold here came with RGB

So we never took (the needed) attention to RGB output on SSDS3. To us, RGB output on SSDS3 was just another line on the features list of a device that was designed from day one as an ODE that would play 99,9% of the games. To us, playing all games was the key feature of Super SD System 3.

After the failure of the first board, we decided to replace the boards and move on.
We tried to deliver a fast solution to avoid the amount of ppl doing trash talk and putting pressure on us. Fact is that you need 2 months to just produce another batch of anything, one month to produce pcbs and another one to get a SMT slot, cause SMT factory only gives you a slot once all parts are there (else they would be waiting for everyone with promises and nothing would be produced at all).

This is totally incompatible with what people demands today : 0 second solutions. If you don't deliver a 0 second solution, people just keep pushing harder and harder and harder again.
I just hope you will never have to live under this amount of extress.

People are also used about "the Amazon way", where you can ask for free replacements without paying shipping costs, or production costs at all. This is so cool what amazon has done, to kill small companies that just can't afford this (and i am not talking about ours, i am talking about the small shop that used to be on your street and just wasn't able to offer this, so it had to close).


Back at SSDS3

We did 2 big mistakes :

First one was to not think RGB had the importance that it has for "some of you", and i say "some of you", cause i still think you all are a small but noisy group of people (yes, you can blame me again for say what i think instead of what's politically correct)

Second one was try to please everyone, break our asses working 16 hours a day to have a new design as soon as possible, to just fix the issue and move on.

We should have :
Taken care about RGB since the beginning
Once the RGB issue was found, stop, think, work with calm, redesign the entire board, submit prototypes, try the board again, submit another prototype and have the issue fixed in 4 months.

But, would you guys would be able to wait 4 months without being fucking around everyday and putting more pressure day after day on us? i bet the answer is NO, cause you guys want the Amazon experience, 0 second solutions and everything free. It doesn't matters if this would kill TO, cause believe me : it would have killed the company for sure if we would have taken this route

Ofcourse, there was another thing we could have done to not be in this situation : show our product in advance to some RGB/audio expert and collaborate with him before the product was even announced.


Now that shit happened, it's pretty easy to say what would be better.
To me the right choice would have been contact an RGB/audio expert since day one, and this is what i would have done if i could get me a ticket on the Delorean with what i know now (RGB and audio is much more important than having 100% compatibility, to name one)


OK, so what happens with me/us saying we would never do another board revision and we ended doing it ?

First, i would like that : you guys saying me/us are shit, unfair with our customers, only looking for money and similar things : please clean your mouth before talking about us.

We have never been here looking for the money, we created this company to deliver things others were not able or didn´t cared to deliver. Things we wanted for ourselves. In the meanwhile we also wanted TO to be a successful company, so we could put earnings back into bigger things.

We said we would never would do another board revision cause we didn't had resources to do it at all. We hired a new layout engineer after SSDS3 board was done, but about that time, we had 4 more projects from us on queue. Much more advanced projects than SSDS3, (the first public where he did the layout is NEOSD PRO, 6 layers pcb)
So switching him to another project was not an option at all and with the amount of pending projects he had, it would not be possible this year (2019) either.

On the other hand, i hate to put different board revisions on the market to sell the same thing to the same customer two times, and i hate when someone does that and stops delivering firmware updates to the first version of the board with some silly excuses (yes, you know who i am talking about).

Sum all this with how much we were pissed about the RGB drama and the pain we lived last year, that we just wanted to let SSDS3 hardware die this way, just keep working on the software but not ever do another board revisions even we would not sell a single SSDS3 more.

So, back in late October, we were almost out of SSDS3 stock, so we had to decide if we would build another batch or just don´t sell it anymore. Then we saw that the rgb board addon and the audio board addon were mature and we decided to ask Voultar and FBX if they would share their design with us to make a copy/paste on our original design. We also asked to mobiustech for things he would change on the pcb design and general advice.

At this moment, we knew that no one would be happy : The ones with the old board would be pissed, the ones without it would be pissed, everyone would be pissed cause one only has to read this thread to see people only wants to not be happy at all, just trash talk about us, speculating but not hearing what we have to say.

A clear example is the UK guy that bought a neosd, got a refund cause he changed his mind, and on top on that decided to flame Todd all over the internet, so Todd had to ban him from our forum, cause : what the hell are you looking for once you got what you wanted ?

Back to topic : Voultar, and FBX shared their designs with us, we submitted a prototype pcb to factory with urgent status. It came in two weeks, i soldered it by hand, i shipped it to FBX, FBX shipped it to mobius, and they said there was an improvement there. So in the meanwhile, we lost the entire christmas sales of Super SD System 3, cause from the moment where FBX and Mobius said the board was ok, we would need 2 months to have a batch produced and we were already out of stock. We could have had a batch without changes for Christmas, but not a new version, cause this requires factory to design a new panel, stencils to be build once the new panel is ready and so.

So why we did this new version ? cause we wanted the guys fucking around with the rgb to have what they were fucking asking around all day long (or why you guys were moaning about it ? just to have it and come back moaning about we did it ?. Even we knew when they got this new board they would not stop fucking around with the same thing.

BUT above all things : we did it, cause it was the right thing to do at all.

Now : Sunday, 2:57am after reading all your comments, i think : is all the work we have been doing since last year any worth at all ? Some of you guys wanted us to be dead as company, it looks that what you really want is us to disappear.

I see the two projects we have been working at and that will be announced next month, and i think : do all the haters deserve those ? cause reading you guys, it looks like you don't really want anything else from us on the market.

Maybe i am really tired about driving 600 kms friday to spend 13 hours recording on saturday, driving back those 600kms today and coming back at work on sunday to deliver to our customers as soon as possible.
So today: now, i see it all negative and i am guessing if all the work we are doing just for the shake to have great devices on the street to play with, and sometimes if possible get a thanks back, is it worth at all.

At least, i still think there is a big group of our customers that liked Super SD System 3, NEOSD and will enjoy the projects that we will be announcing next month.

I just want to say, that not everything in life is about money but passion about what one does and love for what on does. Sometimes shit happens, and like on the good times, we are always here to do our best to try to have everyone happy. Just sometimes as this time, its clear that it's not possible at all.

So you all can blame us about anything you may like or dislike. But i don't want anyone else saying again we are only here to make money, cause this is totally wrong.


Alex


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:26 am 


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Neodev wrote:
So, back in late October, we were almost out of SSDS3 stock, so we had to decide if we would build another batch
. . .
BUT above all things : we did it, cause it was the right thing to do at all.
. . .
you all can blame us about anything you may like or dislike. But i don't want anyone else saying again we are only here to make money, cause this is totally wrong.


Why did you keep the PCB redesign a secret instead of announcing it in October? I can only speak for myself. But I am only upset with the lack of communication. I will happily wait months for a fixed design. But you need to communicate the status to your customers. Otherwise it looks like you intend to deceive.
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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:37 am 


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yeah, ight


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 Post subject: Re: Super SD System 3
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:41 am 



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the Goat wrote:
Neodev wrote:
So, back in late October, we were almost out of SSDS3 stock, so we had to decide if we would build another batch
. . .
BUT above all things : we did it, cause it was the right thing to do at all.
. . .
you all can blame us about anything you may like or dislike. But i don't want anyone else saying again we are only here to make money, cause this is totally wrong.


Why did you keep the PCB redesign a secret instead of announcing it in October? I can only speak for myself. But I am only upset with the lack of communication. I will happily wait months for a fixed design. But you need to communicate the status to your customers. Otherwise it looks like you intend to deceive.


Because one has to sell the current stock to pay the next batch, if you don´t want to ask your customers to pay his device in advance, wait 6 months until you have a good amount of orders to produce a batch, produce it and ship it.
Even if we would do this, you would be in the same situation if we decide to inprove anything.

One thing is try to improve something and other different is to do changes to force your customers to buy the same thing two times


Do you think Sony throw all the noisy PS4 pros stock to the trash they day they produced the new model that dosen´t sounds like a reactor ?

A new batch of SSDS3 would never come if the current batch werent sold out, we need to sell one batch to produce the next one.

There are things that are possible (company side) and things that are not, i asume you are the one i discused with on discord the entire saturday about this and didn´t get enough.

We wanted the new board version, and we decided to not anounce it to not piss previous customers, to us the better way to have as less people as possible pissed, it was silent introduce it.


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