What's your favorite off the shelf PS2 light gun?

[Classicgamer]

I own a large number of light guns for the PS2 / PS1. I kept searching for a passable off the shelf recoil option but, after trying almost all of them, I found no 3rd party gun that even came close to the accuracy and reliability of the official Namco Guncon 2.

So.... has anyone found a 3rd party PS2 / PS1 recoil gun with consistent shot placement (I.e. Without the crosshairs jumping around when you calibrate)?

This guy claims that the Scorpion Blaze is the absolute best PS2 gun. He claims it is better than the official Namco guns....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KccbujW-WBY

The Blaze is one of the few I haven't tried because it seemed to have a tiny vibration motor instead of propper recoil and I hate that stupid "Shock" crap. Can anyone comment on the quality of the Blaze?

Btw, The best off the shelf recoil gun I found for the PS2 is my Desert Eagles. I have two. They are not great light guns but the recoil mechanism is my favorite. It gives a nice recoil feel with the moving slide without being too annoying for long playing sessions. I.e. It's not too loud and the slide moves at the right speed in full auto mode. My Super Jolt gun's full auto is too slow to feel right and there is no way to adjust it...

I have a future project penciled in to try and either fix the Dessert eagle accuracy or replace it's electronics with a real Namco GC2.

[Syntax]

Guncon will always be the best choice imo.

If you have an issue with one then it's your TV, the angle of play or light source interference.

It helps knowing how a lightgun should be used opposed to how we actually use one.
The gun should be 90° to the screen at all times, and never get closer or farther than the calibration point.
This means you can never bend your wrist and have to shoot on a flat plane moving your arms everywhere.

But because we dont do this when we aim the gun at an angle at the corner of the screen we instantly notice the accuracy is off.

I have some sets that seem great but cant hit the lower portion of the screen making some games unplayable.

[SNK-NEO-GEO]

On my ps2 gun setup, I tried with two different scart cables and RGB settings (a cheap cable and an expensive one) and the gun would not work properly on the edges of the tv mostly right hand side. The gun has no issues with composite video instead of scart RGB..

[Classicgamer]

Guncon will always be the best choice imo.

If you have an issue with one then it's your TV, the angle of play or light source interference.

It helps knowing how a lightgun should be used opposed to how we actually use one.
The gun should be 90° to the screen at all times, and never get closer or farther than the calibration point.
This means you can never bend your wrist and have to shoot on a flat plane moving your arms everywhere.

But because we dont do this when we aim the gun at an angle at the corner of the screen we instantly notice the accuracy is off.

I have some sets that seem great but cant hit the lower portion of the screen making some games unplayable.

I have never had an issue with any of my Namco brand guns and I have never not had an accuracy / jumping crosshairs issues with any other brand of gun. It is possible that Namco guns are more forgiving of user error though.

I have gone over all (16) of my light guns to try and identify what makes Namco crosshairs stable while every other gun has jumping / flickering crosshairs. The only obvious differences I can see are:

- Namco guns use 3 leg sensors (5v, signal, ground) while other use 2-leg sensors (5v and signal)
- Most arcade recoil solenoids or motors are shielded while none of the PS2 gun recoil mechanisms are
- The Namco arcade sensor has an extra cap between 5v and ground

Any of these sound like they could be the issue although they are not easy to solve. If I replaced the 2 leg sensor with a Namco 3-leg, I have nowhere to connect the 3rd leg to.

I could add EMI shielding tape but I doubt this alone will solve anything.

On the extra cap, the Guncon 2 seems to do ok without it so maybe it is only needed if there is a longer distance between sensor and I/o board. Either way, there is no ground on the 2 leg sensors and you can't add a cap between 5v and signal.

Maybe the Namco guns have spoiled me for all others...

[Classicgamer]

On my ps2 gun setup, I tried with two different scart cables and RGB settings (a cheap cable and an expensive one) and the gun would not work properly on the edges of the tv mostly right hand side. The gun has no issues with composite video instead of scart RGB..

I doubt that the issue is from using RGB unless it goes through some kind of scaler or Extron interface. My GC2 works fine in RGB. I use the Ultimarc PS2 to arcade monitor cable. I believe this has a sync stripper built in so maybe that's the difference.

There is certainly nothing about RGB that would make it work on on side of the screen but not the other...

[Taiyaki]

I'm amazed that anything better than the Guncon 2 on console is even possible. I was never bothered by the lack of recoil, the thing just works so remarkably well I just couldn't care. I've always wanted an improved LCD compatible gun but with the genre sort of fading away it seems less and less likely.

[Classicgamer]

I'm amazed that anything better than the Guncon 2 on console is even possible. I was never bothered by the lack of recoil, the thing just works so remarkably well I just couldn't care. I've always wanted an improved LCD compatible gun but with the genre sort of fading away it seems less and less likely.

In terms of accuracy, the official Guncon 2 is comparable with the Time Crisis 3 Arcade. This is not surprising though as they use an identicle sensor and the TC3 arcade is essentially a PS2.

I would be happy if one of the off-the-shelf recoil guns was as accurate as a GC2. I don't need more.


I was thinking about what is going on with this genre. I'm not sure it is dying. It is shifting to the virtual reality space. Almost all of the new gun controllers are for VR.

I find it frustrating that companies are trying to sell high quality VR guns for a $1000 but nobody ever tried to offer a real arcade quality gun with recoil when the superior light gun tech was around.

[Syntax]

They are pretty rare but you can still find arcade at home lightguns for the PS1/Saturn.

Made by Pelican, Joytech, Innovation. Pretty sure they run 24v solenoids.

https://segaretro.org/Real_Arcade_Light_Gun

[Classicgamer]

They are pretty rare but you can still find arcade at home lightguns for the PS1/Saturn.

Made by Pelican, Joytech, Innovation. Pretty sure they run 24v solenoids.

https://segaretro.org/Real_Arcade_Light_Gun

I have one. They use a 12v solenoid with a (lower quality) Namco style bearing slide.

They have several issues that make them disappointing. Their accuracy is among the worst available for the PS2. Jumping crosshairs etc.

The overall quality is low. The shell looks like a Namco gun but the plastic is thin and flimsy. The slide mechanism rattles as they don't use enough bearings. There is no shielding on the solenoid.

The full auto recoil mode is too slow to be convincing. And it doesn't work on full auto games. It only works in conjunction with autofire and auto reload. It's no use for Time Crisis 3 or Crisis Zone. Not that this matters as it is only Guncon 1 compatible.

I rate my Dessert Eagles higher than the Jolt.

I plan on ripping out the Jolt electronics and using a Guncon 2 board with it instead.

[Syntax]

Thanks for the detailed info on those guns, I was always curious of their quality.

Might as well buy an arcade namco and hack a guncon 2 into it.

[Classicgamer]

Thanks for the detailed info on those guns, I was always curious of their quality.

Might as well buy an arcade namco and hack a guncon 2 into it.

I thought about it as an option but it's too hard (or expensive) to find a Time Crisis 3 arcade gun. I've seen plenty of Time Crisis 2 guns but they have the wrong type of solenoid for full auto. I have never seen a single used TC3 arcade gun for sale and I check eBay every day.

I might try harvesting the solenoid and recoil board from the Jolt gun and add a Guncon 2 board inside a Time Crisis 2 arcade shell. The solenoid in the jolt gun is at least rated for continuous duty.

If the opportunity arose, my preference would be to convert a Crisis Zone arcade gun. They use a motor for recoil which is just easier and more reliable. Plus, I prefer the two handed rifle over a pistol for extended play. But, I have never seen a working one used either.

[Syntax]

You have seen my singlefire/full auto mod for the arcade TC/2 point blank guns to PS2 right?

https://youtu.be/c4v_XDulfoM

[Classicgamer]

You have seen my singlefire/full auto mod for the arcade TC/2 point blank guns to PS2 right?

https://youtu.be/c4v_XDulfoM

I have. I even had a go at trying to make a 555 circuit based on your diagram but I couldn't make it work. All I could get it to do was engage the solenoid and leave it engaged until I cut the power.

I'm not very good with electronics projects. My best guess is that I either bought the wrong type of components or I misunderstood how to wire the pots and / or the mosfet. I remember that my pots had 3 pins but the diagram showed two connections... so I wasn't sure which pins to connect.

I ended up buying an Aimforce dongle for PC full auto recoil. They have some nice and easy to use software which lets you set the type of recoil and recoil speed on a game by game basis.

For PS2, I have been using the recoil boards from my off the shelf recoil guns and using motorized recoil for the rifle light guns I am working on.

Maybe one day I will figure out how to use my 555 timer.

[Classicgamer]

Here is a pic of my two Desert Eagle Guncon recoil light guns:



The top one is Guncon 1 and Konami. The bottom one is Guncon 2, Guncon 1 and Konami (I.e. It works with any PS2 or PS1 light gun game).

The bottom one takes power for the recoil motor from whichever plug you are not using. E.g. For Guncon 1 mode, you plug in PS plug and it takes recoil power from the USB plug and the opposite for Guncon 2. This works a lot better than the top one which takes power and signal from the same plug.

Both can be used with an extra PSU (which it comes with) but it doesn't seem necessary or to make any difference.

The recoil has a Namco arcade style moving slide and it has the right amount of force imo. I.e. Enough to feel like recoil but not so noisy and annoying that you can't enjoy using it.

Neither are great light guns. I thought I might be able to figure out how to mod them for improved accuracy but I still can't figure out what makes Namco guns more accurate.... I think the lens might play a big part. The focus looks wrong for every 3rd party gun lens I have looked at but who knows....

[Syntax]

Are the barrels sealed or atleast painted black inside?
(Like a guncon 2)

[Classicgamer]

Are the barrels sealed or atleast painted black inside?
(Like a guncon 2)

The barrel and lens is in the solid green removable tube at the from. The top 2/3 is black inside but the bottom is open and exposed which is particularly poor in a gun with a transparent shell.

They obviously didn't bother to change the design for the American market. The rest of the world got these in solid black shells.

The main issue though, as far as I can tell, is the lens. Namco guns have a clear lens focused at the right distance for the sensor. These and every other 3rd party gun I have seen have poorly focused lenses. The one in these seem to be focused at 3 feet instead of the 6" it should be.

The best thing I can find to do with these is replace the electronics with official Namco Guncon parts. It is relatively easy to activate the recoil mechanism from the Namco gun trigger. You just solder two wires between the two trigger switches. The actual recoil mechanism in these is good and has a nice feel.

I have to wonder if these (or any) 3rd party guns were ever accurate. The sensors seem to lack sensitivity like they aren't getting enough power.

[Syntax]

Fyi.

The guncon 2 lens is convex both sides and plastic.
The NAMED arcade guns are convex both sides and glass.
The NAMCO arcade guns are convex one side flat the other.

[Classicgamer]

Fyi.

The guncon 2 lens is convex both sides and plastic.
The NAMED arcade guns are convex both sides and glass.
The NAMCO arcade guns are convex one side flat the other.

I saw that. It's not surprising. The lens is usually the key difference between any cheap and expensive optical equipment. Good glass is expensive. The lens on my projector, for example, cost $7000 when it was new. You can buy a whole projector with otherwise similar looking specs for under $1,000 including the lens. Same with cameras and rifle scopes etc.

The shape of the lens is not so important. It's the clarity, light transmission, size and focal point. Glass is usually better than plastic but poor quality glass is no better and could easily be worse.

It's seems logical that the cheap plastic lens in the 3rd party Chinese guns is a key cause of accuracy issues. Their job is to focus the light towards the sensor. It's no wonder a blurry and poorly focused lens makes it hard to register shots.

It wouldn't be too hard to switch out the plastic lens from the Namco Guncon 2 for an arcade one but it is not necessary. The official Namco lens in the GC2 seems to do it's job well. The arcade one probably needed a glass lens to make the guns work with older dimmer overused CRTs. (Good) Glass has better light transmission.

It seems worth an experiment. When I get a chance, I'll put an official Guncon lens in one of the Chinese guns to see if it makes them accurate.