RetroGamingCables 5V-to-ground SCART cable issue

[ASDR]

Mobius & Voultar have been tweeting about some RGC SCART cables shorting out SNES consoles:

https://twitter.com/Mobiusstriptech/sta ... 6095774723
https://twitter.com/Voultar/status/1079503595182190592

I thought I post this here to discuss since I don't talk on the twitterz and this issue is likely of interest to others here. From what I understand, some of the PCBs used in the SCART heads of RGC cables have an issue where the solder mask of the ground plane is damaged and the 5-12V pin 8 makes contact, causing a short to ground, blowing fuses in the console and such.

I'm so far a very happy owner of RGC's products for SS/GC/AES/MD1/PCE/N64/PS1/SFC. What I'd love to know:

- Is this only something that happens in assembly, or do I need to worry about cables that have been working for a while? I wonder if repeated plugging & unplugging of the connector could make any pins scratch through the solder mask by itself
- Anything I should check? I obviously don't have a short to ground right now, but should I do a visual inspection of the PCB?
- Anything I should modify? I'm thinking the voltage on pin 8/16 is only ever used for Composite/RGB and 4:3/16:9 switching etc., the OSSC/FM doesn't care about any of this. Guess sync strippers will use it, but otherwise one could just disconnect the 5V/12V etc. to be sure?

[ldeveraux]

I'll bet Retro-Access is grinning ear to ear right now.

But in reality, I've had issues with RA cables popping a solder joint, so the grass is always greaner.

[ASDR]

Yeah, all cable manufacturers had their screw ups. Just think how many times over the years something was outputting TTL level sync when video level was expected.

I'm just trying to avoid damage to my equipment. Would really suck to fry some expensive, modded, imported console because of a defective cable. I don't quite have a handle on how worried I should be and what I should do.

[headlesshobbs]

I have no intention of frying my OSSC, so I question if +5V is even necessary?

[ASDR]

I'm 99% sure the 5-12V VCC in SCART cables is only ever used for the two indicator pins (RGB vs composite and activity/4:3/16:9) and video processors like the OSSC and FM just ignore these anyway. The other use is some devices like sync strippers and the activity LED on passive SCART switches like the Bandridge are powered by it. So we could probably remove it. But I'd hope some of the experts or involved parties could chime in with some EE-expert advice

[MKL]

Scart connectors for cables don't have PC-mount terminals so they're not meant to be soldered to PCBs. Silly ideas like that only came about when some people thought they could quit their jobs and make a living selling cables to the retrogaming community. And then we have US dude on twitter claiming "this is why I hate scart" as if that mess was the standard's fault.

[headlesshobbs]

What about a +5V cutoff adapter?

I'd still keep the line open for specific things, but for safety reasons it would make sense to have a block where needed.

[ASDR]

What about a +5V cutoff adapter?

I'd still keep the line open for specific things, but for safety reasons it would make sense to have a block where needed.

Wouldn't that adapter have to be on the console side (the short happens in the SCART head and trips the fuse in the console)? How are you going to manufacture such an adapter for the half a dozen plus different plug types?

[headlesshobbs]

oh whoops, I wasn't thinking.

* Brainfart


Edit: Actually I was thinking about the equipment that the scart heads would connect to, cause I was led to believe the voltage passes thru on the other pin.

[Link83]

Can't RetroGamingCables just remove the ground plane from the PCB design? Or at least keep it away from all the pins. This obviously doesn't help solve the issue for already manufactured cables though.

...I'm not sure if a ground plane was ever really necessary for such a small PCB with no active electronics? Especially one whose main functions are simply to ease manufacturing and create a neater install.

[ASDR]

Can't RetroGamingCables just remove the ground plane from the PCB design? Or at least keep it away from all the pins. This obviously doesn't help solve the issue for already manufactured cables though.

...I'm not sure if a ground plane was ever really necessary for such a small PCB with no active electronics? Especially one whose main functions are simply to ease manufacturing and create a neater install.

Seems like they recently changed the PCB design:

https://twitter.com/retro_cables/status ... 5688016897

Good, but doesn't really address the issue for existing customers with hundreds of euros worth of existing cables, though :/ Still not sure how much of an issue this really is.

[ASDR]

Edit: Actually I was thinking about the equipment that the scart heads would connect to, cause I was led to believe the voltage passes thru on the other pin.

Since it's a short to ground the path of least resistance would not be through the scaler/TV. Guess it'll 'just' pop a fuse on the console or worse if they cheaped out and don't have one.

[maxtherabbit]

Scart connectors for cables don't have PC-mount terminals so they're not meant to be soldered to PCBs. Silly ideas like that only came about when some people thought they could quit their jobs and make a living selling cables to the retrogaming community. And then we have US dude on twitter claiming "this is why I hate scart" as if that mess was the standard's fault.

PCB issues notwithstanding, the SCART connector is still mechanically a huge piece of shit

[Bratwurst]

PCB issues notwithstanding, the SCART connector is still mechanically a huge piece of shit

I like it. Large spaced out components are significantly easier to work on and repair. But yeah, folk are trying to do stuff with it that the design wasn't originally intended for.

[ASDR]

Scart connectors for cables don't have PC-mount terminals so they're not meant to be soldered to PCBs. Silly ideas like that only came about when some people thought they could quit their jobs and make a living selling cables to the retrogaming community. And then we have US dude on twitter claiming "this is why I hate scart" as if that mess was the standard's fault.

PCB issues notwithstanding, the SCART connector is still mechanically a huge piece of shit

Sure, but the OP's point still stands, this has nothing to do with SCART vs Component. For example the HD Retrovision cables also use the 5V line to power their RGB->YPbPr transcoder. Had they produced a questionable PCB and had a lapse in quality control you'd have the exact same issue.

Personally, I'd rather have a single wire & connector with SCART than dealing with 5 for YPbPrLR separately.

[ldeveraux]

Scart connectors for cables don't have PC-mount terminals so they're not meant to be soldered to PCBs. Silly ideas like that only came about when some people thought they could quit their jobs and make a living selling cables to the retrogaming community. And then we have US dude on twitter claiming "this is why I hate scart" as if that mess was the standard's fault.

PCB issues notwithstanding, the SCART connector is still mechanically a huge piece of shit

Sure, it's oversized, garish, and doesn't stay in place, but it's still fairly plug and play. Not bad for a 30+ year old technology I'd think!

[FinalBaton]

I liked working with a SCART head when I had to make a cable for my tv : no way would I've been able to solder wires to a DE-15 connector, thse pins are too close to each other. But with SCART I was able to solder all those wires. ALso handy in a way, to have room for extra components, and even PCBs, in the SCART head itself

Frankly not bad at all for a connector. I prefer DE-15 but SCART is really pretty decent

[ASDR]

Ok, so now that we have determined that SCART is king, what do we do now about our potentially defective RGC SCART cables?

[Frank_fjs]

It seems to be a fairly isolated incident.

If your cable(s) is working now, you don't have an issue.

If your cable is faulty, send it back to RGC at their cost for a refund or replacement.

Why all the fuss?

[DirkSwizzler]

Yeah. Unless I'm misunderstanding what happened. The chances of this happening for a cable that's already working seems low.

Sounds like it was a combination of the scratch problem during assembly and the pins being torqued slightly differently than their testing rig. Making contact to the existing exposed surface from the scratch.

So if you've already plugged in the cable a bunch of times then it probably wasn't scratched. And since it's soldered in place now. I doubt it can generate the force necessary to create the scratch.

Someone please correct me if I'm misunderstanding here.

[maxtherabbit]

Ok, so now that we have determined that SCART is king, what do we do now about our potentially defective RGC SCART cables?

don't dare blaspheme against our one true king, the Victorious God of Analog

[ASDR]

I didn't want to start a fuss, just the facts seem a bit confusing from a few Twitter threads. There was a tweet over a cable going bad after a week or so. I understand how the solder cups of the SCART connector during assembly could scratch off the mask from the ground pour that envelops the pads on the older PCB designs and how then the cup then might short to ground when bend the right way. But I'd also assume that such a short would've been caught in testing @ RGC. I don't know how much I moved around each cable, I'm sure there's a few where I upgraded from some older crappy cable where I basically just plugged it once into the SCART switch and never looked at again.

[Frank_fjs]

Thing is, we don't know all the facts. Was the cable abused / misused? How many are affected? Etc.

I can't count how many RGC cables I have, I use them all the time and am always inserting and re-inserting them without issue.

I've had a bad BNC cable from RGC, they refunded and let me keep the cable.

I also have RA cables and the quality inside isn't what people talk it up to be. Cheap Samxon caps and my Mega Drive one has a loose and warped DIN socket.

[Mobiusstriptech]

Thing is, we don't know all the facts. Was the cable abused / misused? How many are affected? Etc.

I can't count how many RGC cables I have, I use them all the time and am always inserting and re-inserting them without issue.

I've had a bad BNC cable from RGC, they refunded and let me keep the cable.

I also have RA cables and the quality inside isn't what people talk it up to be. Cheap Samxon caps and my Mega Drive one has a loose and warped DIN socket.

It was a brand new cable that was DOA. It wasn't caught in testing. It definitely happened in manufacturing. I have only seen this one fail. Voultar has seen 1 that we can confirm and says he saw others.

People can buy cables from whoever and argue about who does what better but the way I see it, when I buy a cable for ~$40 I don't expect it to pop a fuse in my console. Luckily this was a console with a fuse. This customer sent the cable and console to me because they thought they messed up their install and didn't even consider the cable being at fault.

All I hope for out of this is better QC from RGC and it sounds like they are going to work on that. The concern is solely are there more cables out there where the owners haven't used them yet to find the issue. Or worse thought they did something wrong and damaged the console.

[ASDR]

It was a brand new cable that was DOA. It wasn't caught in testing. It definitely happened in manufacturing. I have only seen this one fail. Voultar has seen 1 that we can confirm and says he saw others.

People can buy cables from whoever and argue about who does what better but the way I see it, when I buy a cable for ~$40 I don't expect it to pop a fuse in my console. Luckily this was a console with a fuse. This customer sent the cable and console to me because they thought they messed up their install and didn't even consider the cable being at fault.

All I hope for out of this is better QC from RGC and it sounds like they are going to work on that. The concern is solely are there more cables out there where the owners haven't used them yet to find the issue. Or worse thought they did something wrong and damaged the console.

I'll say from my interactions with Robert @ RGC he seems like a helpful dude that cares about his products and customers, so I have no doubt that he'll do whatever is necessary to design & process to make sure this is not an issue going forward. Personally, I always verify either through measurement or visual inspection that whatever SCART cable I put in operation does not have the risk of outputting TTL sync, I'll now add 'check VCC / GND short' to my list of tests as well. As far as my existing cables, I think I'll still try to have a peek at the PCBs. I think it might be hard to see, though. For a short to happen the solder cup from the pins must be very close to the PCB, making it probably hard to see if the solder mask below it is intact.

[Mobiusstriptech]

In the case of the cable I encountered, the scrape on the solder mask was under the cup. However it was not soldered. So the copper was bare and just barely touching. The redesigned PCB should alleviate this concern but now that it has happened I hope that some testing involving the ground as well as the 5v are added. Realistically this could have happened with any of the pins.

[Turrican]

Are RGC the best ones around for cables? Specifically I'm talking about Snes, Super Famicom and Megadrive Model 1 cables. Any good alterantives to their products?

[nmalinoski]

Are RGC the best ones around for cables? Specifically I'm talking about Snes, Super Famicom and Megadrive Model 1 cables. Any good alterantives to their products?

You could try Retro-Access, or thefoo.83 on eBay. If you're interested in YPbPr output, you could look at HD Retrovision.