Silent Hill (Spoilers, All Series)

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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evil_ash_xero
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Re: Silent Hill

Post by evil_ash_xero »

KAI wrote:Junji Ito was also working on that cancelled game
Ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffuck Konami!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Konami...such greatness...such disappointment.

Who the heck took over?!
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Blinge
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Re: Silent Hill

Post by Blinge »

I've been replaying Silent Hill 1-4 casually since halloween.

I was really reminded how much of a good game 2 is on this playthrough when I've stopped to smell the shitty roses.

However with added exploration of outside sections, I collected so much ammo and healing items!
The game gives you absurd amounts of resources. So in actual 'levels' or inside sections I killed every enemy possible, by shooting.
Or rather the optimal 3 bullets, then a stamp of the foot to finish them off. Doormen earned my shotgun wrath, iirc.

Eddie's first phase was a one and done with the Great Knife for lols. That overhead swing catching him coming in from offscreen is one of my favourite moves to pull in the game.

I used the Hunting Rifle on PH and the final boss, yet even with all this shooting happening I had at least a hundred pistol rounds and shotgun shells by the end. Health kits coming out of my ears.

Lying Figures, Legz, Nurses can be stunlocked by simple melee weapons as far as i'm aware.

Silent Hill 2 is incredibly easy, Silent hill 3 reaches into your anus and pulls your teeth out.

Basically every enemy is a bullet sponge compared to 2. I thought after a couple of shots I might score a knockdown for that foot finish but nope, often they would die from 6-7 bullets before falling down. My aspiration of killing everything quickly evaporated after i spunked the original pistol ammo on the first few enemies, especially the big arm brutes outside the mall bakery.
Ammo + health items are much more scarce in this game. I ran past most of the enemies and still ended up completely out of ammo for the final boss.

So i feel like in traditional survival horror fare, you're supposed to run past the enemies, and that's a lot harder in this game too. Barely anything can scratch you in 2 if you run past, even when rubbing shoulders. In 3 you might get grabbed or a lot of the enemies have a fast swinging style move designed to catch evasive players. Also the level design of tight dark twisty corridors full of fast enemies or them screeching fucking pendulums does not allow for easy dodging.
I fucking hate them pendulums.

The dogs and crawling cunnilinguists are nightmare fuel. Good luck hitting the latter with pretty much anything. If you try to melee them, these underwear boys gonna crawl right up Heather's snatch.
In the otherworld office building I'd put another kind of beef jerky down then sneak up from as great a distance as possible and use the ridiculous mace. That worked on them pretty well.

I've seen people complain that 3 has more of a combat focus than 2 but I don't know man, you can do a lot better for yourself via combat in 2, with 3 you're shooting yourself in the foot if you try, for the most part.
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Blinge
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Re: Silent Hill

Post by Blinge »

I apologise for the disordered thoughts but here's another post about the pacing of each game.

3's pacing is just so... off, compared to 2.
With SH2 James arrives and discovers there's strange things afoot in the town, the level of horror builds slowly, from the iconic fog to your first eventual venture into darkness.
3 is like fuck you lol! Dream sequence! nightmare amusement park! all guns! horrific sounding enemies, it totally bludgeons you from the beginning, THEN tries to do a chill start in the mall. I think this beginning sucks, personally.

The chill start is very shortlived however as bad things gradually start but really their effect is totally lost on the player who has already been through the dream sequence. Why do a 'scary' reveal to heather of the hulk/shopping bag enemy who we've already seen, killed or ran away from in the dream!? :|

Lets compare the buildup of intensity in both games
Spoiler
SH2.
James arrives
> Unnerving walk to town (nothing happens) > Sees lying figure, gives chase
> Monster revealed in a cutscene > radio
> Apartment Building [the horror begins fo real]
> Break, out in the open again, meet Maria, eddie bowling cutscene
> Hospital > Otherworld [intensify]
> Low moment, james alone at night, scarier open section
> historical society [really heats up] > shit gets real underground > Eddie
> boat+ early hotel [brief respite before the end] > big reveal > illusions collapse, final bosses.

While the horror and intensity is at its peak during the prison/underground sections, I'd argue dialling back the pressure a little bit for the Hotel and End is a good idea, it allows you to focus more on the personal element of James' story.

SH3.
> Nightmare [Already intense from the get go]
> Heather wakes up, meets douglas [briefest glimpse of normality] > First enemy in a cutscene shortly after
> Mall "dungeon" immediately [several enemies to deal with at once, often.] > Claudia + otherworld [as intense as sh2's otherworld hospital already ] > dogs, pendulums > Penis boss
> Subway [quick breather before horror and dogs come back, confusing layout, instadeath puzzles]
> Sewers [intense AF, you're running away in the dark]
> office block [straightforward level, calm at first but still tough enemies in tight spaces] > Otherworld variant [intensity dial at 10]
> Story, Heather reaches home. > Missionary boss battle
> Heather + Douglas drive to Silent Hill, cutscenes [jesus. finally you can relax for a minute]
> Open exploration in the foggy town that you've wanted since the beginning, but a tiny variant thereof, little more than a throwback to 2. Asset re-use.
> Hospital [Good horror, nurses, of course. easy enough] > Otherworld [Intensity 10 again. It's tough.] > Leonard.
> Amusement park [Absolute hell, crank that dial up to 11 baby] > Haunted House, genius section [unsettling, but chill]
>More amusement hell > intense memory of alessa boss.
> Church [Pretty much a climax. makes sense here.]
I feel the latter game is all over the place. The latter half seems to have decent pacing and the last areas really ramp it up, as you might expect! It's the early game that's a real problem for me.
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Obscura
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Re: Silent Hill

Post by Obscura »

Yeah, SH3 is kind of "take it or leave it" for me, for a lot of the reasons you've mentioned. It's got some setpieces I absolutely love, and I like that it's significantly harder than 2, but as an overall thing, it just doesn't work as well.

I loved SH2 both times I played through it, but I don't feel the need to ever play it again. It's so hard to die that it ends up lacking any real teeth; the "survival" part of "survival horror" goes right out the window.
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JBC
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Re: Silent Hill

Post by JBC »

3 is still my favorite but a lot of it may be my crush on Heather, which is just creepy now that I'm getting older and she isn't.

1-4 will forever remain the only true Silent Hills. I hope one day we see another series that is so unique and special, but it hasn't happened yet.
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Blinge
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Re: Silent Hill

Post by Blinge »

8BA wrote:3 is still my favorite but a lot of it may be my crush on Heather, which is just creepy now that I'm getting older and she isn't.
I laugh because i'm in the same boat.
Still, every fresh replay makes me cringe at her voice actress that little bit more.

Although, my absolute favourite line by her is the vitriol in 'looks like God didn't make it.'
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Re: Silent Hill

Post by Blinge »

BIL wrote: Not to mention that you shouldn't be fighting sniffer dogs at all, early in the game, but sneaking past them. They'll ignore you as long as you don't run or get too close. If you have to fight one, let it walk into your striking range, floor it with a flurry of light hits, stomp on it and walk away while any others in the area flock over to cannibalise it.
Just tried this in the forest world round 1.

It doesn't work birru :(
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BIL
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Re: Silent Hill

Post by BIL »

If I'm remembering the right area (downward-sloping path lined by several relaxing sniffers), I seem to recall idly luring out and killing them one by one with the starter Iron Pipe, last time. Dead sniffers attract other sniffers to feed, leaving them open for a beating.

It's been years though. Still, I've single-sessioned SH4 Hard enough times to stand by my sniffer handling technique. The trick is to walk slowly. Too quick, or worse yet running, will instantly put them in chase mode. If approached carefully they'll get up but remain off-guard while wandering into pipe range.

IIRC, the intro movie showcases some in-game footage of the player booking it through that exact area and getting mauled by the entire pack. :lol:

That comment was aimed more at the subway, specifically the couple of long corridors with a few sniffers each, prior to getting the handgun. Not that you should be wasting ammunition on them, but it's not even an option there. They're pretty easily brought down by the aforementioned pipe flurry (don't bother charging up, it'll just let them get hits in).
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Re: Silent Hill

Post by Blinge »

BIL wrote: Too quick, or worse yet running, will instantly put them in chase mode.
Ah. that's it, was moving too fast probably.

Still the wooded areas are brief enough for me to wanna just run from them, as we're still in the free-heals part of the game. (intro scrub notwithstanding)

This just in from FB group - Spotted in Ashfield!! :o
Spoiler
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SH4 really is a master of unnerving gameplay compared to the others imo, even though I know what's coming i still struggle to gain momentum and keep playing. Makes me very squeamish.
But maybe it's because the game trains you to be a voyeur always peeking through the door and hole in the wall hoping for a glimpse of eileen's sweet ass.

Edit: Well I started to get into the game a lot more in water world on, remembered how good it is..

Buuuut then i spent aages trying to pin Cynthia and i can tell babysitting Eileen's gonna be a drag. I'm not sure if it's okay to ditch her in little monster-free rooms or not. The only safe one i know of is the middle area at Wish House
Going for the mother ending.
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Re: Silent Hill

Post by Blinge »

Finished my replay of 4.

Man, I really love and hate this game. It creeps me out in a way that no other SH or even horror game does. The slow creep of creepy things into Henry's little world is masterfully done. I could complain about the protag's lack of character but Walter Sullivan's kinda the main character of this game isn't he.

Annoyances, though: you're juggling so many mechanics by the end of the game that it feels overwhelming, I don't want to enter another room because of all that could go wrong.
Which ghosts to leave swords in, which places to fight or avoid, where to leave Eileen, how to get Eileen to follow you, Walter, where to use holy candles, especially when doing the heal Eileen 'glitch', inventory management. Ruh!

Not to mention Building World Stair Days Re-visited Gaiden Part 2: Stairs edition Stairway to hell

You could argue that if a horror game makes you want to stop playing it, it's a successful horror game, ha.

I think if I ever return to the game ima just let her die.
Shame, really. best ass in Silent Hill.

Christ has anyone seen the 10 star rating requirements for these games!?
4's is obscene.
Difficulty: Hard
Play time: Less than 2 hours
Saves: 1
Continues: None
Enemies defeated: Greater than or equal to 120
Memo items found: 52/52 (Having about 50/52 memos will still earn you 10 stars.)

How you supposed to do all that killing and finding within that tiny time frame!? one save! :shock:
Last edited by Blinge on Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: mum bills

Post by NYN »

Blinge wrote: one save! :shock:
To push you further into the mouths of madness, that one save that's pardoned is reserved for clearing the game and save it, see?
Have no confusion.
You have to clear the game with no saves or continues for max points. :lol:
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Blinge
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Re: Silent Hill

Post by Blinge »

Wha, really? :|

Also damn is this SH4 !? :mrgreen:
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Re: I get a weird feeling

Post by NYN »

Stubbed my toe on a situation in Siren Heel 2.
Now I'd call myself savvy enough with the melancholy madness, bit of a silent hillbilly. Yet came to a strange bit there.
Set action and riddle to max and hit the wall at the Louise puzzle box. You kow, the hospital. Something so moronically simple as the copying of the bloody numbers on the padded wall. "Tern tern tern the numbers." Looked easy enough for me, did it a dozen times. I'd say it's 2735? Not sure 'bout the last two. Could be 2 and a 7, maybe? Nevermind. Just going to change it around and it will open. But it didn't. Not with any number. Tern tern tern and no service. And that's the first time EVER I looked up that part. And it made me laugh. Since it's a generated number I never encountered before, and don't think will encounter again.

Terns out it was SPOILER FOR EMPHASIS
Spoiler
7
7
7
7
And I got only one number right. It's surely amazing. What looks to my peepers as a 2 or maybe a 9 is in oppressing reality a 7.
Certainly the strangest thing I found in a game chock-full of wonderful strange things.
"I've transmuted into a super being. I'll proof it by killing you." -NGIII ( words to kill by )
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Re: Silent Hill

Post by BIL »

That Joseph, worra rascal! :cool:
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and a corpse can't laugh

Post by NYN »

The other day, when summer up and left for some days, I got in the mood for a flash of 1999 foggy town vacation.
Figured I was due to earn me some Japanese steel, setting my path there. And founding myself delighted in a scene in the Cybil bout. Dodging bullets, I lost visual of her tight uniform. Staggering, I came a-round only to find her sitting on one of them horsies, going up and down in a leisure, scoffing about my quest to get up and personal with her. Hadn't known that for some 20 years. Made for some chill.
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BIL
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Re: Silent Hill

Post by BIL »

Ah yes, very cool! :smile: I distinctly remember discovering that taunt of hers, too.

Spoilers for SH3, pet theory time:
Spoiler
With Cybil's fate left ambiguous, I like to think the Carousel Death Duel Redux was hinting at a sad outcome, via the inscription nailed to the horse's side:

If you wish to escape,
There is but one way out.
To kill before you are killed


Doesn't match up 100% ("you will be saved by the 12th death"), but I put that down to more of KCET's smartly-applied unknowability.
Gawd, how I wish SH3 had been given the time and resources SH2 was... a proper return to the north side of town with those production values and that intensity would've been fuckin HAWT. Image
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Re: what do you mean "anyway"?

Post by NYN »

Uh.
Cemento Pill 3 hard riddle mode makes me feel dumb. Am I supposed to crack these nuts for some serious overtime, exclaim EUREKA!!, snort through my buck teeth, and then just jot it down for the next round? I'm not sure.
And the bosses make me feel fat. I don't expect all that much. But the hit 'n run strat by all of them lets me covet some of the former. The all-or-nothing of the original. Or the now-a-sub-boss-later-a-regular of 2. 4 jumps ahead and coronates ghostie people to rule 'em all. Spiffy.
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Re: Silent Hill

Post by BIL »

IIRC, there's some really lame stuff in SH3 hard riddle where you need prior, external knowledge to stand a chance. Shakespeare isn't too great a stretch I suppose (though the stretch is inherently unacceptable!) but the ornithology stuff can fuck right off. SH1's piano, now that's how you do Terror Horror™ birding!

The hospital keypad sequence was cool though, again IIRC (been a while!). Brutal stalker poem givin' me the fuckin willies!

I really like SH4's iframe-heavy charge n' blast combat - at least once you get hold of the Rusty Axe aka Oxidised Iron God Fist. The intro sequence's *BLAAAOW* headshot to the sniffer doggo piqued my interest and it did not disappoint! You can do some neat stuff with Teh Pickaxe of Despair (so metal!) too, but as murderously potent as its scything POW attack may be, it lacks the joie de vivre of RAX's homing hop/skip/BLAOW. Don't ignore the little hits either, they're important. Tap-tap-tap 'em while holding the button after each to build meter then let 'er rip!

Charge meter wasn't perfect for Terror Horror context, but it was a promising start. I used to fantasise at length over on TEH FAQS messageboards about an SH borrowing the sublime timing-based combat of AKI's N64 wrestling games. Tap the button for a quick snap, won't do real damage but useful for interrupting attackers / swatting zako. Hold the button for a proper swing, hurts bad and will stun the target, kill if they're weakened. Hold the button and its neighbour (EXAMINE) for an almighty murderous cleave that's easily interrupted, but will smash the target's face roooight the fuck in. Job done! Image Charge meter feels a bit R-Typey. :cool:

What am I saying. 90% of the motherfuckers in these games don't have faces! But you get my meaning!
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Re: Silent Hill

Post by EmperorIng »

One of my many complaints about SH4 - but by far the biggest - was its incredibly strict (and seemingly random) positioning required to put the Sword of Ouch into the ghosts. It's bad enough that they do area-of-effect damage just by being near you. It's bad enough that their sound-effect is irritating. However, it is nigh-unforgivable to have to fumble with the game's active inventory, hover long enough over the sword so that the inventory UI doesn't go inactive during the fight, thwack the ghosts enough times - AND start mashing the "use" button on the ghosts, hopefully in the right spot (but who are we kidding? you won't get it right) before they immediately res with their health back, forcing you to go through the whole process again.

It's worse with the 'boss' ghosts like Cynthia, Richard, and chocolate-milk-man, who hit hard, have lots of health, and have less than a second to get pinned with the Owie Stick, all while you are taking a beating trying to keep them down. I had to have fought Cynthia's ghost in the final Building World 9 or so times before, by the grace of God, I found the exact right x/y/z coordinates to activate the sword animation. There is no reason for the game to be so utterly strict - without the excuse of "horror is supposed to be tense!", this feels more like "half-programmed game" than "survival horror." It makes me not want to replay the game, despite liking many aspects of the game as Blinge mentions up above.

My strategy actually hinged around pinning the major ghosts down so they didn't overwhelm me in the final area (where I could ignore the minor ghosts).
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I got a letter

Post by NYN »

Thanks for your comments.

I just found out that there is a PS2 collection released in '06. Containing 2/3/4. Never heard of it. Shattered Memories released for PS2 in 2010? Huh.
Never felt the tug to any other game which wasn't made by Team Silent. I think I fear the formula treatment, it's that dear to me. Part of me sides with the team who thought up some changes before becoming trite after finishing 2. As far as I adore Heather and her spunky temper, I abhor the standards after 2 iterations. Map, radio, flashlight; it's freaking tourism now. Don't dare to enter Silent Hill without it! So insipid, at least to me. That's why I don't trash The Room. I consider it an ending. The end of tourism.
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Re: Silent Hill

Post by Jameson Rook »

Just dropped by over here to say that as Team Silent fan, Shattered Memories was terrific, especially on Wii. It's truly one of those games where you really shouldn't overlook just because it's not made by the original team. It's a reimagining of the first game with completely new situation and circumstances and the plot is surprisingly moving.
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Re: Silent Hill

Post by Marc »

I just remember the chase sequences being annoying as fuck, and the actual game world not being anywhere near as tense as the originals. Still have it I think, may try again later.
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Re: Silent Hill

Post by kitten »

eugh, shattered memories is awful. very obviously developed by a completely forgettable western studio and missing so much of what made the original series interesting. the chase sequences are really bad and the game's big gimmick is that you're doing a rudimentary Which Dad Are You personality quiz worse than most quizzes that try to figure out which naruto character you are. i remember at the very last possible point in my playthrough i went from one harry to the "sleaze and sirens" one just for the ending and it was completely silly. ruined the narrative it had going on, which already wasn't a hot one.

taking the series' pretty nuanced consideration of the psychology of its characters & the human condition in general and putting you in the shoes of someone visiting a literal therapist and answering personality questions was way too hamfisted and, more importantly, way too obvious. silent hill is never a series concerned with spelling things out that blatantly or trying to sell you that hard on what it was.

some of what the questions try to pigeonhole you as show obvious stupidity and a narrow worldview on part of the developers, too. e.g. saying 'yes' to "i have enjoyed role play during sex" begins to suggest harry is some sort of banal american pervert. silent hill 2 represents james' sexual repression and stunted psychology through the metaphor of a weird scary monster man with a giant cleaver who rapes grotesque caricatures of the feminine body. while that's also kind of obvious, it's at least obscuring it a bit and making you jump through a few hoops to see that. silent hill shattered memories represents harry's sexual psychology by... giving him a hawaiian shirt and making him act like a dude who brings home ron jeremy vhs tapes to wank it to. christ. jesus. it's embarrassing.

i don't want to put the original series on some sort of pedestal of supreme storytelling genius, but shattered memories is stupid and offbase and shouldn't bear the name.
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I got a first aid

Post by NYN »

I seem to remember some interview where one of the Shattered Memories devs gushed about how he, as in personally, never enjoyed the parts of the 99 game where you fight. Hence it had to go for the re-imagination. :P
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Re: Silent Hill

Post by Marc »

Started 3 properly for the first time last night. Not sure what to make of it so far.
There's less background than the first two - I'm trapped in the mall because? I'm not keen that there are enemies literally everywhere, and the setting itself just isn't that interesting so far. Still, I did only play the first hour, so I'll give it another bash later.

One plus point is that, having only ever played an hour or so on the PS2 version many years ago, I can't quite tell how shit this version on the HD collection is. Did they redo the voices here? People don't sound like they're talking in stop-motion anymore like in the second.
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Re: Silent Hill

Post by BIL »

HD Collection is infamously shite. :[ Prepare for inexplicable crushing slowdown in the sewer area. And yeah, all the voices were redone in totes dramatic animu dub stylie. They suck, especially James's.

You're better off playing SH2 and SH3 on PC, particularly if you don't mind YARRing it up a little Image (fan mods for both put the official HD versions to shame)
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Re: Silent Hill

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Marc wrote:There's less background than the first two - I'm trapped in the mall because?
Have you played the first two games? If so, stick with it. There's a lot of background but the game deliberately witholds it at the start because a large part of the plot is discovering exactly what's going on. You're a teenager and some really weird people are suddenly very interested in you and getting you wrapped up in shit you do not want to be wrapped up in. Just roll with it for now. :)

The combat is generally improved over the second game thanks to the blocking mechanic (which technically is in SH2 as well but the controls for it are horrendous and unintuitive compared to SH3) and ditching the use of the pressure sensitive face buttons of the Dualshock 2 for melee. But the new voices in the HD collection are not comparable to the originals, sadly...
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Re: Silent Hill

Post by MJR »

Silent Hill 1 & 2 are probably my favourite horror games of all time. I bought the soundtrack cd's by Akira Yamaoka for the first two also back in the day - wonder what they're worth now..

Silent Hill 2 something is especially something that was never topped imho, in bleak and oppressive atmosphere. Soundtrack is also the best one in the series.

Team Silent also pulled some impressive technical tricks for their time - the director's cut of SH2 "Born from a wish" was probably one of the very first cases on a game console where I saw ambient occlusion baked on the textures, rather masterfully too I must say. And while Silent Hill 3 didn't quite reach the same heights, I never forget the "living walls" textures on the nightmare world, not to mention the "dark mirror image" room.. that was some serious nightmare fuel.

Silent Hill 4.. it was okay, worth playing once and some memorable scenes. Silent Hill Origins I couldn't bother to finish, Silent Hill: Homecoming was kinda bland, okayish but nowhere near the same quality.. and Silent Hill: Downpour I could not bother to play really very far.

Not sure if I am going to care about any future installments, the best anyone could do is probably just to copy what original Team Silent did.
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Re: Silent Hill

Post by BIL »

I hear SH1's chief creator Keiichiro Toyama is working on a new horror project - I'm quite interested in that, even though Hiroyuki Owaku's SH2 is my most loved.

It was the dev cycles that doomed Japanese SH. :sad: SH3 needed its own side of town for the story to really land in, a fully-realised North Side. And SH4 should've been an opportunity to really let rip, with pure dream cycle phantasmagoria - I still remember the sinking feeling when I realised it was gonna recycle its environments at the midway point. But with the vanishing wait time between sequels, I'm just impressed those games did as well as they did. Shingo Yuri's CG character designs, Yamaoka's soundtracking, and Ito's monster designs were all as sharp if not sharper on SH3, and while SH4 noticeably suffered for the last's absence, it contributed a uniquely dark story and some dryly foul ambience of its own.

It was SH2's anthology approach that attracted me BITD. In hindsight, I still think it was this series' greatest asset. In big budget sequel terms, it takes some balls to chuck out your original game's story and characters wholesale, starting from scratch - but that's a venerable storytelling approach dating back to at least The Twilight Zone, undoubtedly far earlier. New story in a familiar setting. SH2 also paid its dues to the wider series, contributing lots of lore on the town and its history, as well as functioning as a natural counterpoint to SH1's "world of nightmarish delusions come to life." The Otherside was glimpsed from third-person via Harry, naturally a terrifying enigma. It's seen from the first-person via James, more explicable, but menacing on an intimate level that completely changed the tone. Where you're a despised trespasser to the end, in SH1 - "Drop dead. Go home. Thief." - SH2 slowly cranks up its insidious pull, even as the journey grows more surreal and violent. "Mr. James Sunderland..."

Among gaming's finest-ever double acts. I'd love to see that same nous applied to a return. At the same time, it may well be isolated projects like Toyama's upcoming game are where it's at for that.
Searchlike
Posts: 168
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:17 pm

Re: Silent Hill

Post by Searchlike »

SH1 Spoilers:
Spoiler
Learned a few weeks back that the Japanese word for 4, "shi", also means death and that hospitals and hotels don't have a fourth floor as the number is believed to bring bad luck. Immediately thought of Silent Hill 1. :o
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