Shinybow 2840 vs Retrotek SCBV1P3

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RGB0b
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Re: Shinybow 2840 vs Retrotek SCBV1P3

Post by RGB0b »

If anyone gets a new Fusion, try to test it on a scope. Maybe he updated the design?: https://youtu.be/c_fiL-Z_Wig
Go-Kyo
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Re: Shinybow 2840 vs Retrotek SCBV1P3

Post by Go-Kyo »

So.. I’m re-arranging the retro room and finally testing out the Fusion I’m not sure if it’s the gscartsw Switch or the fusion that’s causing the problem link is below, but it seems it only happens on select games and now all that I notice.


https://youtu.be/82nAhrmOk8M

Anyone know how to fix the problem? Or can point me into the direction of the cause. Thanks
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bobrocks95
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Re: Shinybow 2840 vs Retrotek SCBV1P3

Post by bobrocks95 »

Go-Kyo wrote:So.. I’m re-arranging the retro room and finally testing out the Fusion I’m not sure if it’s the gscartsw Switch or the fusion that’s causing the problem link is below, but it seems it only happens on select games and now all that I notice.


https://youtu.be/82nAhrmOk8M

Anyone know how to fix the problem? Or can point me into the direction of the cause. Thanks
Well, if it consistently happens on that intro, it should be easy to figure out if it's the Fusion by skipping the gscartsw and plugging straight into the Fusion.
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Go-Kyo
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Re: Shinybow 2840 vs Retrotek SCBV1P3

Post by Go-Kyo »

Yeah, seems like it’s the Fusion even with the direct connection it does it, thing is it’s not a constant seems like only on transitions in screens on some games it occurs. Looks like I’ll have to pick up the Shinybow -.-
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bobrocks95
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Re: Shinybow 2840 vs Retrotek SCBV1P3

Post by bobrocks95 »

Go-Kyo wrote:Yeah, seems like it’s the Fusion even with the direct connection it does it, thing is it’s not a constant seems like only on transitions in screens on some games it occurs. Looks like I’ll have to pick up the Shinybow -.-
Since that transition flashes an all-white screen it makes me think that the Fusion isn't properly attenuating its sync signal, and the voltage is getting too high for the display. Do you notice it on any other white or very brightly-colored screens?
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Go-Kyo
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Re: Shinybow 2840 vs Retrotek SCBV1P3

Post by Go-Kyo »

bobrocks95 wrote:
Go-Kyo wrote:Yeah, seems like it’s the Fusion even with the direct connection it does it, thing is it’s not a constant seems like only on transitions in screens on some games it occurs. Looks like I’ll have to pick up the Shinybow -.-
Since that transition flashes an all-white screen it makes me think that the Fusion isn't properly attenuating its sync signal, and the voltage is getting too high for the display. Do you notice it on any other white or very brightly-colored screens?
Yep, white transitions that flash gives the same issue with other games I just tested Yoshi Island and same deal. I left the game on for a few and the areas that it will happen it’s not as pronounce as before but still slight distortion

Edit Update: So just received the Shinybow, and I’m still having those video glitches I’m not sure what it can be I launched RetroPi loaded the same game and there’s no issue. I tried different male to male RGB Scart cable that did not help. Now I’m thinking it’s the television set but I’m uncertain. On Yoshi island as I mention causes the same problem. https://youtu.be/p_g8B4rzNdo

I by passed my Scart Switch directly to the Shinybow and it still occurs, power on the Sega Genesis and popp’d In Vector man when I destroy the television sets there’s a effect that gives off a flash and I can see it there as well. Anyone know what can be the cause?
greasemonkey90s
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Re: Shinybow 2840 vs Retrotek SCBV1P3

Post by greasemonkey90s »

retrorgb wrote:
maxtherabbit wrote:just a thought, it would be a bit hacky and tricky, but the $50 ebay transcoder I linked should work perfectly with any resolution if you remove and bypass the sync stripper on board and only feed it CSYNC
If someone in the US has one, I can try to test it. LOL, I seem to have a history of borrowing stuff and reviewing it six months later though. I'm trying really hard to get better about that, but no promises... :)

I know this is old post but i took a chance and ordered said transcoder. After i have a go with it for a bit i dont mind shipping it out to you.
RGB0b
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Re: Shinybow 2840 vs Retrotek SCBV1P3

Post by RGB0b »

Well, if nothing else, maybe post pics of the inside?
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maxtherabbit
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Re: Shinybow 2840 vs Retrotek SCBV1P3

Post by maxtherabbit »

retrorgb wrote:Well, if nothing else, maybe post pics of the inside?
the inside is the outside lol - the ebay pics show the whole PCB

it's a variation of Ace's BA7230LS design
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Re: Shinybow 2840 vs Retrotek SCBV1P3

Post by greasemonkey90s »

retrorgb wrote:Well, if nothing else, maybe post pics of the inside?
I will post pics but yea simple board on a acrylic backplate. Lol looks like he kept the left and right rca ports from his scart version on mine. Anyway i will be testing mine tonight on my retroarch setup with crt emudriver.

Image
Fusion916
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Re: Shinybow 2840 vs Retrotek SCBV1P3

Post by Fusion916 »

Just saw this thread. I'm the creator of both the VGACTV1 and the SCBV1P3. The VGA version does 240p to 1080i and the SCART Version is 240p/480i only but I'm working (very slowly) on an upgrade to both and a new product that will allow either version to do 240p to 1080i and accept any kind of sync including sync-on green. Already have a protype and testing.

There is no technical faults with either product, although retrorgb disagrees with oscilloscope capture he claims but I don't see any problems on the scope. We can agree to disagree. Literally 100's of people have bought my products, almost zero returns. 100's of good reviews. But I honestly don't really care what people buy or what people think is better, I make almost no money off my products and it's more of a side hobby.
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Re: Shinybow 2840 vs Retrotek SCBV1P3

Post by nmalinoski »

Fusion916 wrote:Just saw this thread. I'm the creator of both the VGACTV1 and the SCBV1P3. The VGA version does 240p to 1080i and the SCART Version is 240p/480i only but I'm working (very slowly) on an upgrade to both and a new product that will allow either version to do 240p to 1080i and accept any kind of sync including sync-on green. Already have a protype and testing.
Is 1080i a limitation of the hardware you're using?
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Re: Shinybow 2840 vs Retrotek SCBV1P3

Post by Fusion916 »

nmalinoski wrote:
Fusion916 wrote:Just saw this thread. I'm the creator of both the VGACTV1 and the SCBV1P3. The VGA version does 240p to 1080i and the SCART Version is 240p/480i only but I'm working (very slowly) on an upgrade to both and a new product that will allow either version to do 240p to 1080i and accept any kind of sync including sync-on green. Already have a protype and testing.
Is 1080i a limitation of the hardware you're using?
Technically there is enough analog bandwidth in the path to support 1080p, but I don't want to "claim" 1080p support because 1080p over component is not widely supported (im not sure this was ever industry standard), there is also a cable limitation, and I can't properly test it. But for sure 720p/1080i is fine though.
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Re: Shinybow 2840 vs Retrotek SCBV1P3

Post by nmalinoski »

Fusion916 wrote:
nmalinoski wrote:
Fusion916 wrote:Just saw this thread. I'm the creator of both the VGACTV1 and the SCBV1P3. The VGA version does 240p to 1080i and the SCART Version is 240p/480i only but I'm working (very slowly) on an upgrade to both and a new product that will allow either version to do 240p to 1080i and accept any kind of sync including sync-on green. Already have a protype and testing.
Is 1080i a limitation of the hardware you're using?
Technically there is enough analog bandwidth in the path to support 1080p, but I don't want to "claim" 1080p support because 1080p over component is not widely supported (im not sure this was ever industry standard), there is also a cable limitation, and I can't properly test it. But for sure 720p/1080i is fine though.
Neat! I only ask because I recently hooked up an old first-gen Xbox 360 and was surprised to see that it would do 1080p over YPbPr component, and that my equipment supports it.
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Re: Shinybow 2840 vs Retrotek SCBV1P3

Post by MarkOZLAD »

Hoagtech wrote:I would really like to find a component RGB transcoder that outputs at 480p.

The only problem I ran into with my CSY is that it outputs at 240p and wont allow to me use scanline generators.

LCD sets have bad luck interpreting 240p as 480 i and support 480p properly.
Would a GBS8200 or GBS8220 do the trick?
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RGB0b
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Re: Shinybow 2840 vs Retrotek SCBV1P3

Post by RGB0b »

Fusion916 wrote:Just saw this thread. I'm the creator of both the VGACTV1 and the SCBV1P3. The VGA version does 240p to 1080i and the SCART Version is 240p/480i only but I'm working (very slowly) on an upgrade to both and a new product that will allow either version to do 240p to 1080i and accept any kind of sync including sync-on green. Already have a protype and testing.

There is no technical faults with either product, although retrorgb disagrees with oscilloscope capture he claims but I don't see any problems on the scope. We can agree to disagree. Literally 100's of people have bought my products, almost zero returns. 100's of good reviews. But I honestly don't really care what people buy or what people think is better, I make almost no money off my products and it's more of a side hobby.
I emailed you about this and you never responded. I have a video coming up that compares all of these converters. I tried working with you to help improve yours, but you don't seem to think there's anything wrong with it, so I'll just include all the info in the video so people can see for themselves. This is not an "opinion". There is no "agree to disagree". Video specs are clear, as are testing methods and yous was by far the worst of all the converters we tested.

To anyone that has already purchased one: Fusion's device will NOT cause damage to your equipment. The problems will only effect the quality of the signal, or cause it to not work at all. This is not a safety issue, just a quality one. Unless these problems are fixed, I strongly recommend people buy one that's built to specs, but if you already own one and aren't having any problems, there's nothing to worry about.
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maxtherabbit
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Re: Shinybow 2840 vs Retrotek SCBV1P3

Post by maxtherabbit »

the "linuxbot" ones on ebay really seem like the best value going right now - granted I've never used one :lol:

I do think they look like a reasonably good implementation based on the PCB pics and I know ace's design is solid (though I don't know how closely linuxbot followed the original design)
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Re: Shinybow 2840 vs Retrotek SCBV1P3

Post by DJ Kevgeez »

Tempest_2084 wrote:Ok, it's obvious to me now that my crappy CSY-2100 clone isn't going to cut it with my new TV so now I'm in the market for a new RGB to YUV converter. I see that the best two choices at the moment are the Shinybow 2840 and the Retrotek SCBV1P3. From what I read Shinybow was the gold standard for a long time and the Retrotek model had a green tint issue on early versions (which I assume has been fixed by now). So assuming price isn't an issue (they're close enough anyway), which one is the best as of this moment?
Wait, i'm new but i thought the OSSC was the best component converter?
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Re: Shinybow 2840 vs Retrotek SCBV1P3

Post by nmalinoski »

DJ Kevgeez wrote:
Tempest_2084 wrote:Ok, it's obvious to me now that my crappy CSY-2100 clone isn't going to cut it with my new TV so now I'm in the market for a new RGB to YUV converter. I see that the best two choices at the moment are the Shinybow 2840 and the Retrotek SCBV1P3. From what I read Shinybow was the gold standard for a long time and the Retrotek model had a green tint issue on early versions (which I assume has been fixed by now). So assuming price isn't an issue (they're close enough anyway), which one is the best as of this moment?
Wait, i'm new but i thought the OSSC was the best component converter?
The OSSC is not strictly a colorspace converter like these devices; the purpose of the OSSC is to digitize analogue video and perform line multiplication to get low-resolution video modes like 240p, 288p, 384p, 400p, etc. working properly on contemporary flat-panel TVs.
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Re: Shinybow 2840 vs Retrotek SCBV1P3

Post by Taiyaki »

I have experience with Retrotek transcoders but not the YUV encoder. I used to use their VGA transcoder model, and have compared it to the audio authority one. The result was not favorable to the Retrotek, but it's still a nice device imo. The Retrotek gives me slightly wrong colors and more interference. When I changed to the Audio Authority the menu colors in the Attractmode theme I was using turned from dark purple to dark brown (proper colors as shown on my other computer). The kind of noise I was getting on the Retrotek was more like a very very faint near invisible snow, you wouldn't notice it if you weren't looking for it, but it was present.

To compare the CSY clone to the Shinybow: picture stability was stronger in my experience with the Shinybow, and again colors were more accurate (but I read you can and probably should adjust the pots inside the CSY, so maybe that would minimize the difference in that respect). I had no noise problem with the CSY, but the Shinybow is pretty much a noiseless device as far as I can tell. The CSY clone heated up way too much for my liking too by the way. The Shinybow stays overall much cooler, although it does heat up a little.
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Re: Shinybow 2840 vs Retrotek SCBV1P3

Post by bobrocks95 »

maxtherabbit wrote:the "linuxbot" ones on ebay really seem like the best value going right now - granted I've never used one :lol:

I do think they look like a reasonably good implementation based on the PCB pics and I know ace's design is solid (though I don't know how closely linuxbot followed the original design)
When I tried Linuxbot's VGA to component transcoder, I got some purple horizontal streaking on certain stark color contrasts. I would just go with a Shinybow since it's readily available and well-vetted, with an adapter cable from retro-access if you need to get output from a VGA device to it.
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Re: Shinybow 2840 vs Retrotek SCBV1P3

Post by Dochartaigh »

bobrocks95 wrote:When I tried Linuxbot's VGA to component transcoder, I got some purple horizontal streaking on certain stark color contrasts. I would just go with a Shinybow since it's readily available and well-vetted, with an adapter cable from retro-access if you need to get output from a VGA device to it.
That stinks - have you let him know? This is the same guy who builds the JVC CRT input cards, right? People were hailing these as a technical masterpiece I thought....

Again, I honestly don't even know why there's a 2-page topic on this, just get the Shinybow!
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Re: Shinybow 2840 vs Retrotek SCBV1P3

Post by nmalinoski »

Dochartaigh wrote:Again, I honestly don't even know why there's a 2-page topic on this, just get the Shinybow!
The SB-2840 maxes out at 480p, doesn't it?
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Re: Shinybow 2840 vs Retrotek SCBV1P3

Post by orange808 »

nmalinoski wrote:
Dochartaigh wrote:Again, I honestly don't even know why there's a 2-page topic on this, just get the Shinybow!
The SB-2840 maxes out at 480p, doesn't it?
Try a Kramer FC-14 or FC-4.
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Re: Shinybow 2840 vs Retrotek SCBV1P3

Post by Dochartaigh »

nmalinoski wrote:The SB-2840 maxes out at 480p, doesn't it?
Is the OP looking for above 480p? And I honestly don't know - haven't tried it. Besides an extremely small number of OG Xbox games which go above 480p (mine's always set to 480p), nearly everything 'retro gaming' is 480p max. I guess I can try it with my Xbox 360 with VGA cable and see if it'll go higher to one of my multiformat CRTs.


orange808 wrote:Try a Kramer FC-14 or FC-4.
Are those 240p compatible as well?
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bobrocks95
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Re: Shinybow 2840 vs Retrotek SCBV1P3

Post by bobrocks95 »

Dochartaigh wrote:
nmalinoski wrote:The SB-2840 maxes out at 480p, doesn't it?
Is the OP looking for above 480p? And I honestly don't know - haven't tried it. Besides an extremely small number of OG Xbox games which go above 480p (mine's always set to 480p), nearly everything 'retro gaming' is 480p max. I guess I can try it with my Xbox 360 with VGA cable and see if it'll go higher to one of my multiformat CRTs.
If video bandwidth (165MHz) corresponds in any way to resolution support, I would think the Shinybow could support 720p/1080i.
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Re: Shinybow 2840 vs Retrotek SCBV1P3

Post by maxtherabbit »

bobrocks95 wrote:
Dochartaigh wrote:
nmalinoski wrote:The SB-2840 maxes out at 480p, doesn't it?
Is the OP looking for above 480p? And I honestly don't know - haven't tried it. Besides an extremely small number of OG Xbox games which go above 480p (mine's always set to 480p), nearly everything 'retro gaming' is 480p max. I guess I can try it with my Xbox 360 with VGA cable and see if it'll go higher to one of my multiformat CRTs.
If video bandwidth (165MHz) corresponds in any way to resolution support, I would think the Shinybow could support 720p/1080i.
it does absolutely correspond for the actual transcoding element, however the real problem is that HD resolutions use tri-level sync which might bugger the sync processing circuit
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orange808
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Re: Shinybow 2840 vs Retrotek SCBV1P3

Post by orange808 »

Dochartaigh wrote:
Are those 240p compatible as well?
Sure.

They are all analog devices. They do not perform a DAC and ADC. That allows for robust compatibility.
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Re: Shinybow 2840 vs Retrotek SCBV1P3

Post by energizerfellow‌ »

bobrocks95 wrote:
Dochartaigh wrote:
nmalinoski wrote:The SB-2840 maxes out at 480p, doesn't it?
Is the OP looking for above 480p? And I honestly don't know - haven't tried it. Besides an extremely small number of OG Xbox games which go above 480p (mine's always set to 480p), nearly everything 'retro gaming' is 480p max. I guess I can try it with my Xbox 360 with VGA cable and see if it'll go higher to one of my multiformat CRTs.
If video bandwidth (165MHz) corresponds in any way to resolution support, I would think the Shinybow could support 720p/1080i.
Anybody taken a SB-2840 apart to see what chips are inside it?
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