What is the best current, affordable solution to prevent crushed blacks over HDMI to an HDTV for the Xbox? I'm having this issue with my Portta component to HDMI converter. I ordered the Pound HD Link and OSSC to test different setups. The Chimeric Systems one but it's sold out right now but the creator has said it's essentially a better version of the Pound cable, not sure if the ASICs are the same. I'm expecting the OSSC to be the best solution because it allows lots of tinkering with settings. None of the basic converters that handle 480p let you do that, and the higher end stuff is very expensive.
Anyway, here is a list of devices I will or want to try. I will add minor updates over time and in the future add link(s) to other posts:
Converters:
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Updated: Portta Component to HDMI converter (non scaler version): Picture looks good but black crush on my Sharp HDTV. Could be compatibility issue with my TV. Desktop monitor accepts the signal but displays full 720x480 image in 3:2 ratio instead of 4:3, colors are correct and no black crush.
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Updated: OSSC 1.6, component to HDMI (I know the ADC latency is super low on this thing): The OSSC is great. The picture is super clean, nearing the quality of a native digital signal, and there are lots of options for tuning in different sync and filter settings for getting the picture as clean as possible. Most people can use stock sample settings but you might need to lower sample rate to 780 depending on your display. Some games, like Ninja Gaiden, will actually fill slightly more of the screen width (and that slightly should be about 1.363 ratio instead of normal 1.333, so a very small increase), and this is something you can take advantage of that most CRT screens couldn't. Just make sure games aren't actually running at a 1.5 ratio on your monitor, in which case things really are too wide. Also, some games might benefit from a higher pre-ADC gain like THPS4 which looks too dark (and was mastered brighter on the PS2/GC and darker on the Xbox) while most games look correct at 8 or 9 pre-ADC gain. I settled on a pre-ADC gain of 9 with a slightly lowered offset of 123 to achieve correct black levels along with correct peak brightness in Ninja Gaiden, but you may not need to lower offset for some games. I really recommend trying line2x mode with upsample2x, but if you're using another high quality upscaler with the OSSC you may benefit less from those options. With everything else tuned in, line2x+upsample2x looks virtually no more "blocky" than passthrough, and a heck of a lot sharper. There's a couple things I wish were easier with the OSSC but in the end I love it and really think it's worth the money. It gives you a sharp, clean image with near-zero input lag.
I am using a modded Xbox 360 component cable from a guy who does the mod on ebay, and what I do is I send the video to the OSSC, which sends HDMI to a DVI adapter at my DVI switch mounted to my desk that then goes to my DVI 1080p monitor (OSSC must be in DVI output mode), or I can send direct HDMI to my TV. Then for audio, I use an RCA to 3.5mm cable to the second 3.5mm port on my Bose computer speakers, which has two input ports which get mixed simultaneously! For my TV I would just connect the audio to the OSSC input instead and then send the digitized audio through HDMI with the video. I usually prefer just going with my monitor for the lower input lag.
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Updated: Pound HD Link: Picture looks good but black crush on my Sharp HDTV. Again, probably compatibility issue with Sharp TV due to EDID misread, may not affect all HDTVs. My desktop monitor doesn't accept the signal over DVI, not sure why.
-Chimeric Systems converter (when it's in stock, and only if the Pound doesn't work out and I want to re-sell the OSSC)
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Updated: Native digital HDMI mod that won't be available until probably next year. This is the end-game. (it's now available at
https://makemhz.com/products/xboxhdmi?v ... 4682543181 , lookout for the citrus3000psi version too)
Upscalers:
-Marseille mClassic (pretty insane device that upscales and applies great AA in sub-1ms. I'm most excited for this to arrive)
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Updated: DSC 301 HD: Color space output can be configured. The 480->1080p scaling on this thing is very impressive and visibly exceeds the quality of my HDTV. Objects on screen look more present and crisp. Input lag feels slightly better on the DSC 301 too; at the least is no slower than the HDTV's upscaler. During this test I learned the way my HDTV detects color range is not always accurate, and it seems like resolution detection as VGA/PC type vs HDV type influences this automatic detection, but in the end the DSC 301 settings should be able to handle that. One minor issue is the upscaled output image can have inconsistent borders, like in the case of a 4:3 picture in 1080p output frame, I get a clean left border but blurred right border.
It is definitely possible to add 1440x1080 or any other resolution to the Extron PCS software. Grab the EDID from your TV, put it in an EDID editor like AW EDID editor or if you have it the Extron EDID manager 2.0, change the resolution using the auto timing calculator included in the editor, save as a new EDID, then add it to your PCS software's EDID folder and add it in PCS's EDID Minder. Then assign that EDID to your current input in EDID minder and the resolution will be added to your Custom 1 resolution. I did try using SIS commands over USB with Extron DataViewer but it didn't seem able to put the custom EDID into the slots, only the EDID detected by the current display. Much more on all of this software and other discussion in the main
DSC 301 thread.
Component from an Xbox works fine into a VGA to BNC adapter to the DSC 301 (Either BNC to VGA with RCA adapters or RCA to VGA should work. I got a 10-pack of BNC to RCA adapters on ebay for $8 and they work great; no signal issues with this setup including my modded Xbox 360 component cable. The adapter impedance type shouldn't matter.). The DSC 301's analog input signal control (active lines, pixels, clock, etc) and picture positioning control are really good to have and the lag seems better than straight over component to my HDTV.
Current tests (may need to be re-done as my Time Sleuth was shipped with wrong/weird firmware) show that the DSC 301 tends to add between 13ms-17ms of lag when scaling the input. It did appear possible to do a near lag-less "passthrough" of the input signal, but it can be finicky getting it to work and I can't explain why. I thought it had something to do with frame lock but I couldn't figure out what steps were required to guarantee the near lag-less passthrough.
Displays:
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Updated: Sharp 1080p LC-39LE551U HDTV from 2014: Depending on the incoming resolution, usually assumes Limited color range input signal and therefore crushing most Full color range signals. Source compatibility and EDID detection play a large role in whether the TV shows correct color range.
Tested with a Time Sleuth at 1080p output measuring the top-most flashing bar, the Sharp has a rolling lag that starts at 22ms and steadily increases to 38ms over a ten second time span, then cycling back to 22ms. To my surprise, the lag difference between picture modes (dynamic, movie, game, sport, etc) or processing modes (noise reduction, color enhancement, active contrast, etc) is negligible. This means that whether the TV is set to game mode with all processing off, or set to movie mode with all processing on, the lag is still about 22ms-38ms with no more than 1ms variance between configurations. Setting input label didn't make a difference.
I'm still trying to figure out if it's something wrong with my Time Sleuth which was shipped with the wrong firmware or my TV, but current measurements show about a 40ms increase in lag when going from the Time Sleuth through the DSC 301 HD downscaled to 480p into the HDTV. I know the DSC 301 also adds about 13ms of lag at the least, so minus that and then the lag caused by the TV's internal upscaling is about 20ms-25ms. Measurements will be updated when necessary after I update the Time Sleuth to proper firmware.
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Updated: Samsung 1080p 2494SW monitor from 2009: Full color range interpreter like all monitors.
Also tested with a Time Sleuth at 1080p measuring the top-most flashing bar, the Samsung measures between 2ms and 3ms lag depending on monitor settings. Surprisingly, brightness and contrast have an effect on input lag. Lag is most stable at 2.6ms when brightness is set to maximum (100) and contrast set above about 70 out of 100, while setting either below these thresholds will cause lag to slightly increase and to roll between a minimum and maximum. The settings I use, 90 brightness and 75 contrast, result in a rolling lag cycle between 2.6ms and 3.0ms over a one second time span. However, decreasing brightness and contrast to very low values results in much larger lag increases. I wonder if this has to do with PWM dimming or an issue with the Time Sleuth and there isn't really a change in lag.
Other:
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Updated: Time Sleuth: My unit came with a firmware that only allowed 1080p output at all knob positions and doesn't show the words Time Sleuth at the top right of the screen. It also outputs DVI 59.99Hz according to my DSC 301 input information. While I will update the firmware, I do wonder if my tests showing rolling lag with the Sharp HDTV have anything to do with the wrong firmware on the Time Sleuth.
Update 2: So I was able to update the Time Sleuth firmware with an altera blaster and get other resolutions working. It is now known that some TVs have random input lag depending on how the device pairs with the TV, and this can change at every power cycle over a 16ms range for 60Hz displays. And the lag drift is caused by frame rate mismatch and frame buffering as a result (
https://alantechreview.blogspot.com/202 ... -dont.html ) for displays that do not allow frame rates other than 59.94Hz. My TV is a bit slower on 480p/i signals, and lag decreases the higher the resolution up until 1080p. My monitor is less affected by 480p but does still show around a half frame more input lag at lower resolutions.
I plan on ultimately using the OSSC 1.6->mClassic. This should only be an extra 1 or 2ms extra input latency, but I might need to mess with OSSC color settings if the output is still for whatever reason being sent as Full range to the HDTV. I would be fine with the Pound HD Link->mClassic and reselling the OSSC if the Pound gives me the correct signal and decent latency. Welcome any advice on this subject.
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2021 Update: Despite all of the equipment I had with the intention of using I now use a modded Xbox 360 component cable to the OSSC directly to my monitor in line2x+upsample2x mode (for Xbox games). While I appreciate the mClassic as a product, I'm not a fan of how the AA method makes things look a little pastel-like or cartoony. The upscaling is certainly decent and low lag but the AA and sharpening just make it not something for me, and it's very unfortunate Marseille continues to choose not to offer firmware updates.
I still have and like my DSC 301 HD but choose not to use it in my setup at this time. The DSC 301 HD has great upscaling quality to 1080p and a variety of tuning options that make it powerful for getting your upscale looking correct, but I can do essentially what I want to with the OSSC with lower lag. For my monitor I need to set a h. sample rate to 780 (most can keep at stock settings where the display auto formats the 858 picture), active area of 720x480 (to see the full width of games that use more than the 4:3 space), and tune a couple of the other timing settings like h. backporch and h. synclength for centeredness (sometimes you need to switch up and down another setting like sample rate to get the OSSC to kick in and actually show the change on screen, so it will take a bit of trial and error and manual measuring of the black sides of the picture on your display to get the picture centered correctly. But after measuring I can attest to a 780 sample rate with 720x480 active area showing the correct 1.363 ratio for games that use the full 720x480 area and 1.333 for other games). In line2x+upscample2x mode games look incredibly clean, if only just a tad blocky from the line doubling, which is improved by upscample2x. But I would gladly take the slight blockyness over the blurry 480p to 1080p upscaling in my monitor or TV. The DSC 301 is still very good looking, but the 960p from the OSSC upscaled by the monitor to 1080p has a sharp and clean look to it with less noise than the DSC 301 that I can easily get into and play for hours on with little complaints. The OSSC's low-noise conversion makes the Xbox's component output look like a native digital signal.
I was strongly considering a native HDMI mod, either by MakeMHz or citrus3000psi, but I have to say I really like the picture I'm getting with the component cable and OSSC and don't feel a huge need to install the HDMI mod. It would have been better to be able to get something like PS2s GSM and upscale directly at the source but as far as I know this isn't possible without another mod chip, so in the end you'd still just be getting a 720x480 output from the MakeMHz HDMI mod. It would certainly be a perfect picture but after looking at MVG's video, I am actually impressed by how good component looks compared to the native digital signal. They are basically the same except a slight clarity loss for component. I'll probably check this out in the future.