Hagane wrote:And the input reading enemies comment is just a laugh at the claim that FF has any kind of advanced or interesting AI when it's full of input reads.
Pretty much all beat 'em ups have some sort of input reading as they rely on the interaction between you and the enemies, otherwise it'd be really boring if the enemies just hit the air randomly all the time, it's not even bad in FF compared to stuff like some SoR games in harder difficulties. Besides saying that all enemies behave the same in FF just because there is some input reading is wrong.
Hagane wrote:With high damage I mean the enemies do high damage but you don't. If you don't use infinites some enemies take forever to kill, and enemies can wreck you in seconds. Again, difficulty through limitations.
Only Guy has low damage, Cody damage is good and Haggar is actually a beast.
Hagane wrote:It is sluggish, you have no runs, dashes or any other option besides walking and backjumping all day cause walking is super slow.
I'm against the idea that run/dashes immediately equate a more fluid/faster game, Captain Commando despite having it is a lot more sluggish than Final Fight because they removed extremely useful moves like cancel-throw and the fast back-jump (the back jump in CapCom is useless and hard to pull-off) that were more useful to approach crowd, infinites are also easier to execute and more imperant than in Final Fight. I never felt like the walking in FF was slow either, hell walking as Haggar feels swifter than walking as Axel in SoR2 for example, let alone in relative terms with the enemies.
Hagane wrote:Schaefer plays extremely differently to the Predators. The tackle complements his throw game perfectly well to safely get to SPD range, and do crowd control with grab invincibility. With him you want to be close at all times, and his slide also helps this. His damage output is much higher than everyone else and his range is also much better, with the ability to use pipes and not losing them.
The lack in mobility in Schaefer is why he's castrated, and I don't see him as a "grappler character" at all, he has somewhat better throws than the others but the throw boxes in the game are so small that it still feels like an anecdotal mechanic. Getting into a power-bomb chain is good and all but it's rare compared to how naturalized the grapples are in characters like Haggar or Max. As for damage output and range he's marginally better than Hunter's arsenal. As for Guy/Cody while fundamentally they aren't much different they still feel different in more than just damage, the mobility speed is quite noticeable, the immediate kicks of Guy are quite useful, the longer combos can stop bigger crowds at a time, the wall kick is a quite useful crowd control mechanic if handled well etc.
Hagane wrote:Finally, having tons of options and approaches is not suboptimal, it's having a richly designed game and not a limited memorizer that restricts any kind of freedom due to how limited and sluggish it is.
Having options that are harder to execute than the most used ones and unneeded/unimportant in the long run isn't optimal in my book. And completely disagree about FF being a "memorizer", just because you have to learn the general idea of how enemies behave it doesn't make it a memorizer. If there is something I like about beat 'em ups is that while you obviously have to memorize stuff (like literally every game out there), there is always room for improvisation, and FF is no exception.
Squire Grooktook wrote:Matter of preference, I suppose. I am notoriously intolerant of games with slow movespeeds (Raiden III, Dimahoo as Solobang/grimalkin, Dracula XX, etc.)
I guess that's a good way to put it, I never see certain mechanics of a game as a standalone but rather in relative way to the other aspects of the game .