Questions that do not deserve a thread

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bobrocks95
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by bobrocks95 »

Dochartaigh wrote:How important is to burn CD-R's at 4x or 8x? I was told you ALWAYS have to burn these (Dreamcast, GameCube, Saturn, etc. discs) at those lower speeds.

I'm trying to burn Dreamcast CDI's with my burner and the slowest speed it'll do on ImgBurn (which I have to use since it's the only program I know of which can properly burn CDI's - with the extra drivers/DLL's or whatever added of course) is 10x speed. When I verify the games I get errors, but they still seem to play fine? (haven't played all the way through a game or anything...)

For the verification errors, could that perhaps be because it can't properly verify a CDI disc? I haven't tried to verify another systems disc as I've already burned all those, and am just working on a couple Dreamcast games right now.
I read somewhere that modern CD burners perform best when writing at higher speeds because that's what manufacturers expect people to do. I've found this to be true, though with fairly unscientific testing- audio CDs burned at 8x speed skip constantly in my car, whereas the same tracks burned at 32x speed work perfectly. Your mileage may vary, but I think there's going to be a sweet spot with your burner and discs that won't necessarily just be the lowest speed.
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Kez
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Kez »

I've read a bunch of mixed information about this. The consensus seems to be that slower does not always mean better. Both drives and media are rated for a given speed, and should perform better when used at that speed. This page discusses it in some detail, and another here.

I am not really sure myself, many people swear by old (and now rather expensive) Plextor drives at a low speed coupled with high quality Taiyo Yuden discs. You'll struggle to find any modern CD writer that will go lower than 16x though.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Dochartaigh »

I think I've been spoiled with my ancient 2009 Mac pro which I could burn down to 1x (on these same exact cheap Verbatim - which are coming back as "Ritek, Co" discs in ImgBurn log). And it's also worrisome that I'm getting verification errors when I verify the disk....but they still seem to play just fine even when burned at 10x so who friggin knows...
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Star1 »

For what it's worth, I've burnt a lot of games for Saturn, DC, mega cd etc, with a cheap external writer(at 10X), using fairly cheap verbatim discs. No issues on any of the systems so far.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by SavagePencil »

Can anyone explain what it is that a slower burn is supposed to do? I get that it should be a digital copy, but do slower burns allow the burned areas to be "deeper" or some other way easier for older drives to read?
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Greenalink »

Has anyone managed to add a (switchless) region free mod to the Sega Genesis 2 VA1 boards (basically model 2 but big motherboards, not the 3/4 motherboards found in VA3 and above)?
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arithmaldor
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by arithmaldor »

SavagePencil wrote:Can anyone explain what it is that a slower burn is supposed to do? I get that it should be a digital copy, but do slower burns allow the burned areas to be "deeper" or some other way easier for older drives to read?
Less chance for errors to occur in the burning process. If the lasers on the old drives are starting to go, their error correction is not as good anymore, so the more accurate of a burn you get the better.
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SavagePencil
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by SavagePencil »

arithmaldor wrote:Less chance for errors to occur in the burning process. If the lasers on the old drives are starting to go, their error correction is not as good anymore, so the more accurate of a burn you get the better.
Are those types of errors not caught if you do a verification pass? I mean, if it's a digital copy, it should be a byte-for-byte copy.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Mantis128 »

Can anyone recommend a good 1080P projector for gaming; mainly retro gaming through the OSSC or Framemeister? Preferably one with good solid color, that doesn't look too washed out.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by nmalinoski »

Mantis128 wrote:Can anyone recommend a good 1080P projector for gaming; mainly retro gaming through the OSSC or Framemeister? Preferably one with good solid color, that doesn't look too washed out.
The Sony G90 should do everything from 240p to 1080p and be light gun compatible, but good luck mounting it. :P
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by DejahThoris »

While we're on the subject of projector recommendations: How about one that will do a 4:3 40" image inside 36-48" ?

I have a Megalo 410 on the way whose original projector is lost. I'm considering throwing a PS4 in there and running widescreen with bars on the top and bottom, but if I can find a projector that'll do 31k 4:3 in the distance/size needed, maybe I'll go to running real hardware in it instead.
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Einzelherz
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Einzelherz »

FinalBaton wrote:Can someone recommend an excellent older DVD player (with component jacks)? It doesn't need to have great upscaling or deinterlacing(if at all), although it's a bonus. Just need for it to output a super solid 480i picture. It's for use on a standard def CRT, to watch 4:3 anime and movies

I've been looking for a cheap Oppo DV-983H for a while now and still haven't found one. So I'm looking for other player recommendations. Not needing great upscaling, that should add more player options
I mean, I use PS2s and my 360. Cause they're hooked up anyway.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by FinalBaton »

Einzelherz wrote:I mean, I use PS2s and my 360. Cause they're hooked up anyway.
I did consider that but I specifically remember Fudoh saying that a ps2 doesn't deliver a great picture for dvd video/film. In fact I think he even hinted at it being more on the mediocre side (compared to a reference player)
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Dochartaigh
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Dochartaigh »

arithmaldor wrote:
SavagePencil wrote:Can anyone explain what it is that a slower burn is supposed to do? I get that it should be a digital copy, but do slower burns allow the burned areas to be "deeper" or some other way easier for older drives to read?
Less chance for errors to occur in the burning process. If the lasers on the old drives are starting to go, their error correction is not as good anymore, so the more accurate of a burn you get the better.
So what's weird is I've tried TWO brand new external burners now so they should have no problem with burning even at a faster speed. Both externals will ONLY do 10x minimum burn. BOTH failed at burning 3-4 different og Xbox utility/tools discs - the discs wouldn't load. Put in the same exact DVD-R's into the ancient 2009 Mac, where I can burn at 4x, and they burn the discs and they load perfect...

Anybody know of an external USB burner which can do 4x? I checked all the name-brand ones on Amazon and all seem to be 10x only. Didn't want to go with some weird brand I've never heard of... I can stick with the Mac, but it's honestly a pain (it's literally in my unheated/uncooled garage, with no monitor on it so I have to screen share in, and I have to run Windows 10 bootcamp from it to boot...).
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bobrocks95
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by bobrocks95 »

Dochartaigh wrote:
arithmaldor wrote:
SavagePencil wrote:Can anyone explain what it is that a slower burn is supposed to do? I get that it should be a digital copy, but do slower burns allow the burned areas to be "deeper" or some other way easier for older drives to read?
Less chance for errors to occur in the burning process. If the lasers on the old drives are starting to go, their error correction is not as good anymore, so the more accurate of a burn you get the better.
So what's weird is I've tried TWO brand new external burners now so they should have no problem with burning even at a faster speed. Both externals will ONLY do 10x minimum burn. BOTH failed at burning 3-4 different og Xbox utility/tools discs - the discs wouldn't load. Put in the same exact DVD-R's into the ancient 2009 Mac, where I can burn at 4x, and they burn the discs and they load perfect...

Anybody know of an external USB burner which can do 4x? I checked all the name-brand ones on Amazon and all seem to be 10x only. Didn't want to go with some weird brand I've never heard of... I can stick with the Mac, but it's honestly a pain (it's literally in my unheated/uncooled garage, with no monitor on it so I have to screen share in, and I have to run Windows 10 bootcamp from it to boot...).
Did you do those 3-4 burns all at 10x? What speed were the discs rated for? Those new external burners may perform much better at 16x.
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Dochartaigh
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Dochartaigh »

bobrocks95 wrote:Did you do those 3-4 burns all at 10x? What speed were the discs rated for? Those new external burners may perform much better at 16x.
Burned all of them at 10x, just burned the most used tools disc at 16x (discs rated for 16x), and it DID work! ...I'll try that next time, thanks. Still makes no logical sense to me but whatever - as long as I can get it to work that's great.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Unseen »

Dochartaigh wrote:Burned all of them at 10x, just burned the most used tools disc at 16x (discs rated for 16x), and it DID work! ...I'll try that next time, thanks. Still makes no logical sense to me but whatever - as long as I can get it to work that's great.
The drive uses different internal parameters for each speed it can write at, e.g. laser power, the exact time used to write pits of different length, servo settings for following the pregroove etc. Since most users only want to write at the maximum speed, the most work goes into optimizing the parametrs for that and the lower speeds are not as well-optimized or might even be a set of generic parameters instead of a set that is optimized for the particular disc manufacturer.

The "burn as slow as possible" advice has not been true for more than a decade, there is usually a sweet spot in the middle of the range or slightly below the maximum where the recorded disc has the lowest error rate. I wouldn't even be surprised if there are recorder+disc combinations out there where the maximum speed results in the best-quality disc since the technology is basically mature these days and the pressure of cost optimization could mean that the maximum speed is the only one where the parameters are optimized at all.
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Einzelherz
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Einzelherz »

FinalBaton wrote:
Einzelherz wrote:I mean, I use PS2s and my 360. Cause they're hooked up anyway.
I did consider that but I specifically remember Fudoh saying that a ps2 doesn't deliver a great picture for dvd video/film. In fact I think he even hinted at it being more on the mediocre side (compared to a reference player)
Could be? I don't think I've watched any on my 850tvl monitors but on my consumer CRT, my Mad About You DVDs all look fine to me.

Technically you can also use an early Wii if it's modded.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Fudoh »

I actually took several attempts to answer FinalBaton's question for a solid DVD player, but it has actually gotten quite more difficult to source something good. In general: if you like to use stock component output, get an ex-high-end player. Something that was $1000+ back then. Sony ES series, Pioneer top of the line. These all had great component outputs from the beginning, ESPECIALLY if you don't require progressive scan playback. These aren't expensive - it's just not easy to pick one.

If you have the right monitor on hand, you could go SDI instead. There were a great number of solid mid range player that offered perfect SDI quality once modded.

A third option would be a 1st or 2nd gen Blu-Ray player, when these still carried component ouputs.

And a fourth option would be to just grab ANY modern Blu-Ray player - maybe a Sony at $75, set its HDMI output to 480i and use a HDMI to SDI or HDMI to component converter with it. The HDMI 480i output quality is REALLY good on these and if you find a converter that performs OK then that's a cheap and modern way to get your SD DVD fix.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by FinalBaton »

Thanks a ton for the answer Fudoh!

Yeah I get what you're saying re:sourcing a particular component for this task. Must not be easy to find

Hey I hadn't thought of using my little Sony blu ray player at 480i over HDMI, and then converting! I might just get a transcoder and try that.

I'll also be on the look out for an ex-high-end player!
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by energizerfellow‌ »

Fudoh wrote: And a fourth option would be to just grab ANY modern Blu-Ray player - maybe a Sony at $75, set its HDMI output to 480i and use a HDMI to SDI or HDMI to component converter with it. The HDMI 480i output quality is REALLY good on these and if you find a converter that performs OK then that's a cheap and modern way to get your SD DVD fix.
Honestly, that's what I'd do.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by bobrocks95 »

Since a lot of DVD material is "natively" 480p with infoflags and whatnot- how do HDMI players perform at 480p? And are there any concerns about combing artifacts for telecined sources (showing my ignorance since I have no clue if a player could detect a telecined source or if any players offer a true reverse telecine)?

EDIT: Maybe displays will just handle 480i much better and can do the 3:2 pulldown themselves? It would mean having to switch between 480i and 480p depending on what you're watching though, I'd imagine.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Fudoh »

Since a lot of DVD material is "natively" 480p with infoflags and whatnot- how do HDMI players perform at 480p? And are there any concerns about combing artifacts for telecined sources (showing my ignorance since I have no clue if a player could detect a telecined source or if any players offer a true reverse telecine)?
only a very small number of most no-name chinese players were able to output "native" 480p from a DVD. The problem lies with the DVD specs and the fact that the MPEG2 decoder is only able (and allowed) to output 480i. In other words: yes, movie DVDs starting from around 2002 were actually native 480p24 and simply flagged for 480i60 output, but 480i60 was a neccessary stage during the video decoding. ANY progressive scan or upscaling player would have to work based on this 480i60 signal. That's why it was so difficult to get this right. The best upscaling players were the ones using an internal ABT/DVDO solution.

Movie IVTC got quite good over the years. The cheap Sony BD players have a good progressive DVD output, but it's still based on a reprocessed 480i signal. With a good disc that won't make any difference to true 480p of course. Performance with video material is something disappointing though. Of course 480p output is always locked to 60Hz, so even after performing a perfect IVTC the players would still add back a 3:2 pulldown to achieve a 480p60 output.
EDIT: Maybe displays will just handle 480i much better and can do the 3:2 pulldown themselves? It would mean having to switch between 480i and 480p depending on what you're watching though, I'd imagine.
heavily depends on the display. Actually cadence conversion got a lot worse over the past years. Manufacturers are focusing on native signal (1080p24 etc) and even cadence detection and pulldown removal from 1080p60 signals is becoming rare. Sony TVs are pretty good in removing the cadence plus they have good upscaling, so a 480p signal is in good hands. Deinterlacing on flat screen TVs tends to add in blur, so even a properly deinterlaced 480i will usually lack the definition of a 480p signal.

PS: if you want to play back the native 480p signal on DVD, you have to rip the disc (not convert in any way though) and play it back using a media player like the DUNE HD series. This way you won't have to go the 480p -> 480i -> 480p -> 1080p way, but you get 480p -> 1080p directly.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by maxtherabbit »

so in theory would it be possible for someone to write a homebrew progressive scan DVD player app for original xbox or ps2 that did output native 480p?
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by energizerfellow‌ »

Fudoh wrote:
EDIT: Maybe displays will just handle 480i much better and can do the 3:2 pulldown themselves? It would mean having to switch between 480i and 480p depending on what you're watching though, I'd imagine.
heavily depends on the display. Actually cadence conversion got a lot worse over the past years. Manufacturers are focusing on native signal (1080p24 etc) and even cadence detection and pulldown removal from 1080p60 signals is becoming rare. Sony TVs are pretty good in removing the cadence plus they have good upscaling, so a 480p signal is in good hands. Deinterlacing on flat screen TVs tends to add in blur, so even a properly deinterlaced 480i will usually lack the definition of a 480p signal.
Rtings makes sure to check for judder-free 24p/60i/60p native and reverse telecine support, so check them out on hardware reviews.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Dochartaigh »

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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Tigershark »

I have a Japanese Sega Saturn connected to a Euro Sony Trinitron TV via scart. Recently the image has begun to "shimmy" horizontally ever so slightly. The scart connection on the TV moves slightly but has always done so. Is my lovely old TV giving up the ghost?
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by GojiFan90 »

Is it safe to use a North American N64 power supply on a Japanese console?
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by ApolloBoy »

GojiFan90 wrote:Is it safe to use a North American N64 power supply on a Japanese console?
Perfectly fine.
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by iceman_0 »

Unfortunately my old pal dreamcast broke and I need to get a new one. This time I want to get a japanese dreamcast, as I am very interested in the japanese exclusive games. I am also a owner of the DC X disc so there won't be any problems unsing my pal games on the new machine. Is the NTSC J Dreamcast region free concering the cables? Is it possible to use my euro scart cable on the dreamcast with the framemeister, or is it necessary to get jp 21 cable and the adapter for the framemeister to use RGB ?
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