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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:48 am 


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Joined: 07 May 2018
Posts: 204
Rama - I did as you said. 1280x960 is now much more stable, although it did glitch on me once during a 15 minute period of playing (xbox original -> gbs component). Just a rief hiccup that lasted a moment. And it still shows 60khz refresh rate.

The other profiles are now all really off. 640x480 is like quartered on the screen with bottom right corner at top left, bottomed left at top right, etc. 1280x720 is cut in half with top half of image of image at bottom half of screen and bottom half of image at top half of screen.

Need more logs?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:09 am 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 511
Yeah, logs should tell me enough.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:22 pm 



Joined: 11 Aug 2018
Posts: 17
Location: Stockholm
This adapter board looks kind of nice to house your ESP8266 in :) A bit expensive though, $15-$23 / piece on AliExpress.

Spoiler: show
Image


Spoiler: show
Image


Spoiler: show
Image


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:53 am 


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Posts: 204
Hey rama,

Below is what the serial monitor reports with Dreamcast inputting into GBS-Control HD-15 input.

Spoiler: show
> 1856
SOG: 4
> 1856
> 1856
> 1856
SOG: 2
> 1856
> 1856
> 1856
SOG: 1
> 1856
> 1856
> 1856
RGBHV bypass
post preset done
SOG: 0
> 1856
<reset>
found: 4 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1 RGBS

found: 6 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1 RGBS

RGBHV
RGBHV bypass
post preset done
.!
> 1856
> 1856
SOG: 4
> 1856
> 1856
> 1856
SOG: 2
> 1856
> 1856
> 1856
SOG: 1
> 1856
> 1856
> 1856
SOG: 0
> 1856
<reset>
found: 4 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1 RGBS

found: 6 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1 RGBS

RGBHV
RGBHV bypass
post preset done
.!
> 1856
> 1856
SOG: 4
> 1856
> 1856
> 1856
SOG: 2
> 1856


I'm uploading a capture from Xbox original -> GBS-Control component input -> OSSC pass thru, but it's 1440p and is going to take a couple hours. Will post back with that in the morning. It looks very good, but glitches momentarily when doing supers, possibly due to a transition from extremely bright frames to normal brightness frames?


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:50 pm 


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Posts: 204
Rama - here's the video of Xbox original -> GBS component. Minor hiccups at 1:13 and 2:38. Let me know if it would be beneficial to test with a game with more motion, like Outrun 2006, or if there's any other genre that should be focused on for testing.

https://youtu.be/M9_vT6onirE

Below is what serial monitor reports for that one.

Spoiler: show
htotal: 1799
HS ST: 56
HS SP: 112
HB ST (display): 1799
HB SP (display): 469
HB ST (memory): 1762
HB SP (memory): 373
----
vtotal: 1000
VS ST: 987
VS SP: 990
VB ST (display): 986
VB SP (display): 26
VB ST (memory): 20
VB SP (memory): 22
Websocket Connected
/preset_ntsc.0 2739
/userprefs.txt 4
presetPreference = 0
FrameTime Lock = 0
presetGroup = 0
frameTimeLockMethod = 0


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:26 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 511
NoAffinity wrote:
Hey rama,

Below is what the serial monitor reports with Dreamcast inputting into GBS-Control HD-15 input.

I'm uploading a capture from Xbox original -> GBS-Control component input -> OSSC pass thru, but it's 1440p and is going to take a couple hours. Will post back with that in the morning. It looks very good, but glitches momentarily when doing supers, possibly due to a transition from extremely bright frames to normal brightness frames?


Hey,
Dreamcast RGBHV is obviously not working. It looses sync all the time and you see some attempts at recovery (wrongly trying to optimize SOG :p).
I'll debug it soon.

Component input (and RGBS using CV Sync) is prone to sync dropouts from black - white - black transitions.
I'm not sure I can ever get this fully stable. It's a little odd, because you don't see a regular TV doing it, and those should use the same kind of scaler.

The dropout from harsh transitions is a well known issue on any video processor.
Basically, the signal waveform gets compressed on whites and extends on blacks.
Within that waveform, the sync tip can momentarily not be detected anymore, until it falls within the sync slicer margin again.
That margin is programmable (you see this as SOG optimization attempts), but I obviously can't know when to expect a harsh transition beforehand.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:06 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 511
Oh by the way, mmmonkey has had this case design on his site for a while.
It looks pretty nice!
It comes as a .dwg file here: http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk/gbs-vga-scaler/
Image


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:33 pm 


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Posts: 204
Does anyone know where to get the female connector with leads, for the 5-pin header? I'm sure I'm being dense, but I've tried every imagineable search term that I can think of to try to track one done, and cannot find them.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:24 pm 


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Posts: 299
NoAffinity wrote:
Does anyone know where to get the female connector with leads, for the 5-pin header? I'm sure I'm being dense, but I've tried every imagineable search term that I can think of to try to track one done, and cannot find them.


JST 5P-SVF-V

edit: This site sells them I think.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:46 pm 


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Kez wrote:
NoAffinity wrote:
Does anyone know where to get the female connector with leads, for the 5-pin header? I'm sure I'm being dense, but I've tried every imagineable search term that I can think of to try to track one done, and cannot find them.


JST 5P-SVF-V

edit: This site sells them I think.

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:52 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 511
So what image tag do you use? Yours scales the picture nicely, mine doesn't :p


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:03 pm 


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Posts: 299
rama wrote:
So what image tag do you use? Yours scales the picture nicely, mine doesn't :p


With imgur you can just add a letter after the image code to change the size of it, e.g. your image was https://i.imgur.com/wR1kWTF.jpg, if you link https://i.imgur.com/wR1kWTFl.jpg (lower case L on the end, i.e. large) you get this:

Image

Check out the thumbnails section at the bottom of this page for more info.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:36 am 


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Posts: 204
rama wrote:
So what image tag do you use? Yours scales the picture nicely, mine doesn't :p

I upload to klovimg.com. It's free, hosted by a member at KLOV. Once you upload, you get a bunch of options for the embed codes. I usually use "BBCode Medium Linked", and just copy and paste that into most forums and it works, plug n play. The image is medium size, but you can click through to see it in full size.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:04 am 


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Posts: 204
Rama - I just tried the native GBS operation with Xbox original-> component. It glitches too at those bright screens, although not consistently. It's probably 1 out of 5 or less on native GBS, compared to every time with GBS-Control. Maybe there's some clues in the native firmware for handling those transitions? Or, maybe it's not something of interest. Could just be an edge case with my particular setup.

Also, with native GBS operation, the transition screens between fights would do a random vertical roll, and there was significant interference visible (waviness in the image). Those things don't happen with GBS-C.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:08 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 511
Thanks for the image tips ;)

Sync robustness used to be better when I had the extra pulse removal going on, coupled with shorter coasting.
I removed that though, because it required managing a parameter all the time (sometimes not easy to get right), and because the ofw also didn't do that.
But anyway, I only know that the pulse ignore setting helped with interlaced - progressive changes.
It probably wouldn't affect this SOG problem.
(Sorry if that doesn't tell you anything :p)

I found some tricks for this issue in a sync stripper datasheet (LM1981), which I'll try.
Image


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:16 am 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 511
Dreamcast / VGA should be fixed on development now, along with many other tiny but annoying quirks ;)


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:36 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 511
I think I've found the YPbPr SOG input capacitor.
It looks like it's using the same value (probably 100nF) as the regular video input capacitor for the channel.
According to the TI datasheet, this capacitor should be many times smaller though.
I'll try getting it out of there and replace it.
That'll probably take care of the sync dropouts, but it's a delicate operation.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:01 pm 


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rama wrote:
I think I've found the YPbPr SOG input capacitor.
It looks like it's using the same value (probably 100nF) as the regular video input capacitor for the channel.
According to the TI datasheet, this capacitor should be many times smaller though.
I'll try getting it out of there and replace it.
That'll probably take care of the sync dropouts, but it's a delicate operation.

What location and what size should it be? I can give it a try too, if I've got a spare cap of appropriate size laying around.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:32 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 511
Pin 61, "SOG0".
The red one (jpg really messes with details, doesn't it).
The capacitor will be fiddly to remove. You might want to let me try first, before you wreck your board.
Unless you're confident with this size, of course ;p
Image


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:42 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 511
Removed the SMD capacitor and measured it at 125nF.
Even the TV5725 datasheet calls for 1nF here :/

Next, I'll replace it with 1nF.

Edit:
Well, that was unspectacular. Replacing with 1nF completely fixes the white to black transitions, as the TI datasheet suggested it would.
It doesn't magically cure the need to adjust the SOG slicer level, but gbscontrol does it automatically now anyway (on the development branch).

So now the problem is:
How should people in the field fix their boards? :p


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:05 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 511
Well, now I'm just a little bit annoyed really. I spent many hours debugging and optimizing the software. There was no way this advanced scaler chip couldn't properly decode very common signals after all!

It turns out it really has no issues. Sync is rock stable *if you follow the datasheet*!
Gee..


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:10 pm 


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rama wrote:
Well, now I'm just a little bit annoyed really. I spent many hours debugging and optimizing the software. There was no way this advanced scaler chip couldn't properly decode very common signals after all!

It turns out it really has no issues. Sync is rock stable *if you follow the datasheet*!
Gee..

Hey great, work! That's a big fix, in my book. :) And with no caps of that value in my stockpile, I ordered 50 for $4 when I only need one. I don't know...the price point of the GBS solution vs. the benefits isn't looking so attractive any more... :p

BTW, where's that dev build, so I can test out dreamcast/VGA? (or is it not available yet?) :)


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:40 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 511
You'll want to select the development branch on Github and then checkout / download zip as you usually do :p
https://github.com/ramapcsx2/gbs-contro ... evelopment

I went ahead and replaced the SOG1 capacitor (into pin64) as well. It measured at 130nF.
(I use the simple component tester, so both the caps are probably 100nF ones.)

And yep, it also fixes the RGBS situation with CV for sync.

This is actually really good news of course.
With this nice performance, there is absolutely no need for a sync stripper!
Building the sync stripper, sourcing 5V, all the parts and finding a place for it, to me this is more difficult than simply replacing 2 caps.
But, of course, this stuff is far too tiny for most.
Eventually, this can also be done by cutting the traces and placing a 1nF series capacitor on it.
Now these 2 caps in series will be a total value of around 900pF or so, still perfectly fine.

Here is my mod job, replacing the 2 100nF caps with 1nF. This is all that's needed for perfect sync!
Image


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:52 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 511
Quote:
And with no caps of that value in my stockpile, I ordered 50 for $4 when I only need one. I don't know...the price point of the GBS solution vs. the benefits isn't looking so attractive any more... :p


You think so?
Imo, the price just went down a lot, since the BOM is reduced and manual labor went down an hour for the sync stripper.
The cases (should we ever build them) can be smaller and extra wiring reduced.

But, of course, one needs to have 1000pF / 1nF caps on hand ;p
I tend to order a bunch of SMD parts all at once. The 1000pF reel was 100ea I think, all nice X7R parts, for like 1€ :)

You can use other cap values, by the way. I suppose it has to be above 400pF and below maybe 30nF.
The lower, the better.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:15 pm 


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Posts: 204
Lovely! No, I was just kidding, this is a cool project, good cost effectiveness and for me at least, a little modding makes it more fun.

Well, good thing I got the tape of 50 since I now need 2. :D

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Last edited by NoAffinity on Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:41 pm 



Joined: 08 Mar 2017
Posts: 511
Tip:
If you can still add some more items (combined shipping), you should get big value SMD caps as well.
10uF, 22uF, 47uF. If the seller has any of those for a good price, you should pick them up.
These caps go extremely well with retro consoles, for reducing jailbars etc caused by ageing electrolytics (or, in case of Nintendo hardware, lack of electrolytics :p).


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:10 pm 



Joined: 09 Jun 2018
Posts: 21
@rama what do you mean about no sync stripper needed anymore ? So just replacing these 2 caps can now hold perfect sync ?

Btw. No problem with size, worked on smaller, even if i would kill the board it already needs replacing, cause i stripped mine so much from outrageous tests and stuff that it looks like it was found in field during ww2.

Jokes asside with chinese component ps2 cables i get a screen a little shaky and scrolling waves on screen (very hardly noticable) so now thinking, but could it be that im using 1amp psu and i'm already driving, gbs + sync stripper + mcu + vga to hdmi (+audio) converter ?


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:04 pm 


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:edit: nevermind, the baud rate somehow got changed. Chaning it back to 115200 worked great.


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:26 pm 


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VGA input not working for me. I have only a VGA input connected, no other inputs connected.

Below is what I'm getting. The serial report readout starts with the wemos in normal startup operation. I then selected the following via the gui, in order: 1280x960 (default), 1280x1024, 1280x720, 640x480, Source Pass Through

Spoiler: show
found: 4 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1 RGBS

found: 4 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1 RGBS

found: 4 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1 RGBS

found: 4 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1 RGBS

found: 4 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1 RGBS

found: 4 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1 RGBS

found: 4 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1 RGBS

found: 4 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1 RGBS

found: 4 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1 RGBS

found: 4 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1 RGBS

found: 4 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1 RGBS

found: 4 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1 RGBS

found: 4 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1 RGBS

found: 4 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1 RGBS

found: 4 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1 RGBS

found: 0 getVideoMode: 1 input: 0 YUV
.New Input
60Hz
post preset done
.reset MD
!
60Hz
post preset done
reset MD
<reset>
found: 4 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1 RGBS

found: 6 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1 RGBS

RGBHV
RGBHV bypass
post preset done
reset MD
!
RGBHV bypass
post preset done
reset MD
<reset>
found: 4 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1 RGBS

found: 6 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1 RGBS

RGBHV
RGBHV bypass
post preset done
reset MD
!
RGBHV bypass
post preset done
reset MD
<reset>
found: 4 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1 RGBS

found: 6 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1 RGBS

RGBHV
RGBHV bypass
post preset done
reset MD
!
RGBHV bypass
post preset done
reset MD
<reset>
found: 4 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1 RGBS

found: 6 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1 RGBS

RGBHV
RGBHV bypass
post preset done
pass-through on
post preset done
.reset MD
!
unlock clamp
SD? SOG: 4
HD? SD? HD? SOG: 2
SD? HD? SD? SOG: 1
HD? SD? HD? SOG: 0
SD? <reset>
found: 4 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1 RGBS

found: 6 getVideoMode: 0 input: 1 RGBS

RGBHV
RGBHV bypass
post preset done


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 Post subject: Re: GBS 8200/8220 CFW Project
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:05 pm 



Joined: 12 Jun 2017
Posts: 86
I have some 4.7nF and 750pF, would these do the job ?
Could stack 2 750pF to get 1.5nF too
otherwise I have through holes, can just cut legs very short for them to fit

Also, is the additional 100R to ground on sync still needed ?


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