Fudoh's ode to old display technology

The place for all discussion on gaming hardware
DejahThoris
Posts: 719
Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:26 pm
Location: Riverside, CA

Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by DejahThoris »

So lately I'm getting into old computer hardware. I got my x68000 up and running mostly finally. Found a cheap FM Towns 40H, a friend gave me an Amiga 1200 that's upgraded like crazy, and I built an old DOS machine running an AMD 5x86 133mhz CPU.

I play most of my games on a Mitsubishi XC2930c, and while it's multiscan and takes just about everything, it's WAY WAY too big for my desk, and I'd like something more reasonable for playing on the computers. 14-20" would be nice.

Are there any notable old PC monitor models that support all the resolutions I'm looking for? I'm not finding anything lower than SVGA locally, and while I don't mind looking on eBay or other places on-line, I don't know what to search for exactly.

The only monitor I've found that seems to tick all the boxes is a Commodore 1960, but I am not finding any for sale, and I'm sure there are dozens of other models of monitor out there that are just a capable (and perhaps may not carry the Commodore brand tax).

I'm in the USA for what that's worth.
NJRoadfan
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:01 am

Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by NJRoadfan »

DejahThoris wrote:The only monitor I've found that seems to tick all the boxes is a Commodore 1960, but I am not finding any for sale, and I'm sure there are dozens of other models of monitor out there that are just a capable (and perhaps may not carry the Commodore brand tax).

I'm in the USA for what that's worth.
NEC Multisync (JC-1401P3A)
NEC Multisync II (JC-1402HMA)
NEC Mulitsync 3D (JC-1404HMA)

All of the above sync from 15khz to over 30khz.
DejahThoris
Posts: 719
Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:26 pm
Location: Riverside, CA

Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by DejahThoris »

NJRoadfan wrote:
DejahThoris wrote:The only monitor I've found that seems to tick all the boxes is a Commodore 1960, but I am not finding any for sale, and I'm sure there are dozens of other models of monitor out there that are just a capable (and perhaps may not carry the Commodore brand tax).

I'm in the USA for what that's worth.
NEC Multisync (JC-1401P3A)
NEC Multisync II (JC-1402HMA)
NEC Mulitsync 3D (JC-1404HMA)

All of the above sync from 15khz to over 30khz.
NEC Multisync has been on my search list on eBay and locally for years in hopes of getting a misrepresented XM29. I don't think it's ever returned any CRT result at all (outside of the few used sedan priced XM/XP29's).
svensonson
Posts: 200
Joined: Sun May 04, 2014 9:49 am
Location: germany

Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by svensonson »

DejahThoris wrote:
NJRoadfan wrote:
DejahThoris wrote:The only monitor I've found that seems to tick all the boxes is a Commodore 1960, but I am not finding any for sale, and I'm sure there are dozens of other models of monitor out there that are just a capable (and perhaps may not carry the Commodore brand tax).

I'm in the USA for what that's worth.
NEC Multisync (JC-1401P3A)
NEC Multisync II (JC-1402HMA)
NEC Mulitsync 3D (JC-1404HMA)

All of the above sync from 15khz to over 30khz.
NEC Multisync has been on my search list on eBay and locally for years in hopes of getting a misrepresented XM29. I don't think it's ever returned any CRT result at all (outside of the few used sedan priced XM/XP29's).
add some of these on your search list. one might pop up, if you are really lucky, on ebay or craigslist

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthrea ... nitor-List
DejahThoris
Posts: 719
Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:26 pm
Location: Riverside, CA

Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by DejahThoris »

svensonson wrote:
add some of these on your search list. one might pop up, if you are really lucky, on ebay or craigslist

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthrea ... nitor-List
You're my hero right now. Thanks so much!
NJRoadfan
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:01 am

Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by NJRoadfan »

Yeah, the list of "true" multisync CRTs is quite small.
User avatar
lettuce
Posts: 1334
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:10 pm
Location: Bedfordshire, England.

Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by lettuce »

So on my JVC Broadcast monitor i have notice that the screen slants down slightly at the top right of the screen all other corners are straight its just this top right corner that slants down. There also seems to be an ever so slight discolouration in this corner when on a pure white screen, there are no speakers or the like near by and have tried moving the monitor into different positions and it doesn't remedy the issue.

Am i right in thinking getting magnetic/convergence strips and placing them on the rear of the tube in this corner will fix this slanting issue as rotating the tube slightly wont fix the issue as this would then send the other 3 corner out of alignment?
Dochartaigh
Posts: 1520
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:53 pm

Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Dochartaigh »

lettuce wrote:So on my JVC Broadcast monitor i have notice that the screen slants down slightly at the top right of the screen all other corners are straight its just this top right corner that slants down. There also seems to be an ever so slight discolouration in this corner when on a pure white screen, there are no speakers or the like near by and have tried moving the monitor into different positions and it doesn't remedy the issue.

Am i right in thinking getting magnetic/convergence strips and placing them on the rear of the tube in this corner will fix this slanting issue as rotating the tube slightly wont fix the issue as this would then send the other 3 corner out of alignment?
Correct. Convergence strip(s) are the only way I know to fix this - try canabalizing them from broken CRT's (I'm still looking at a place to buy these at...can't find them anywhere even calling about 50 crt/electronics repair places around me).

The discoloration could be anything from not degaussing it enough, to the yoke moving slightly over time, to damage to the tube itself. A neodymium magnet strategically placed near this area (inside the case usually) can sometimes do wonders.
User avatar
lettuce
Posts: 1334
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:10 pm
Location: Bedfordshire, England.

Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by lettuce »

Dochartaigh wrote:
lettuce wrote:So on my JVC Broadcast monitor i have notice that the screen slants down slightly at the top right of the screen all other corners are straight its just this top right corner that slants down. There also seems to be an ever so slight discolouration in this corner when on a pure white screen, there are no speakers or the like near by and have tried moving the monitor into different positions and it doesn't remedy the issue.

Am i right in thinking getting magnetic/convergence strips and placing them on the rear of the tube in this corner will fix this slanting issue as rotating the tube slightly wont fix the issue as this would then send the other 3 corner out of alignment?
Correct. Convergence strip(s) are the only way I know to fix this - try canabalizing them from broken CRT's (I'm still looking at a place to buy these at...can't find them anywhere even calling about 50 crt/electronics repair places around me).

The discoloration could be anything from not degaussing it enough, to the yoke moving slightly over time, to damage to the tube itself. A neodymium magnet strategically placed near this area (inside the case usually) can sometimes do wonders.
What about those reals of magnetic tap you can get would they have the same effect?

Image
Dochartaigh
Posts: 1520
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:53 pm

Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Dochartaigh »

lettuce wrote:What about those reals of magnetic tap you can get would they have the same effect?
If you're talking about the color purity problem, the roll of magnet I tried wasn't strong enough.

If you're talking about using that instead of convergence strips, that didn't work for me either - too thick. The key is to slip the super-thin strip convergence strip down between the yoke and the tube itself (that's why there's commonly a ~3" piece of plastic lead attached to the convergence strip). Convergence strips as far as I know aren't magnets either – they're some sort of special ferrous metal or something like that (have the exact type written down somewhere...pretty expensive for a small sheet of it but I may at some point try to make some of my own with it). People have made them with pieces of a snap-off blade type utility knife I've heard... (again, never tried this myself, just researched after I couldn't find any for sale anywhere).
DejahThoris
Posts: 719
Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:26 pm
Location: Riverside, CA

Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by DejahThoris »

NJRoadfan wrote:
DejahThoris wrote:The only monitor I've found that seems to tick all the boxes is a Commodore 1960, but I am not finding any for sale, and I'm sure there are dozens of other models of monitor out there that are just a capable (and perhaps may not carry the Commodore brand tax).

I'm in the USA for what that's worth.
NEC Multisync (JC-1401P3A)
NEC Multisync II (JC-1402HMA)
NEC Mulitsync 3D (JC-1404HMA)

All of the above sync from 15khz to over 30khz.
So I actually found the Multisync II (JC-1402HMA) local to me. Will it take full-color signals, or only the 8/16/64 color C/E/VGA digital signals that are available through the switches on the rear? The bit I've found on the internet mentions an analog mode, but doesn't say much of anything about it as far as I can tell.
NJRoadfan
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:01 am

Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by NJRoadfan »

It takes analog RGB no problem. The monitor came with a HD-15 VGA to 9-pin adapter originally. It automatically switches between analog RGB and digital TTL RGB (CGA/EGA/MDA), no switches required normally.
DejahThoris
Posts: 719
Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:26 pm
Location: Riverside, CA

Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by DejahThoris »

NJRoadfan wrote:It takes analog RGB no problem. The monitor came with a HD-15 VGA to 9-pin adapter originally. It automatically switches between analog RGB and digital TTL RGB (CGA/EGA/MDA), no switches required normally.
This one doesn't have the adapter unfortunately. I'm assuming I can make one though!

Thanks for the confirmation!
Classicgamer
Posts: 873
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:37 pm

Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Classicgamer »

DejahThoris wrote:So lately I'm getting into old computer hardware. I got my x68000 up and running mostly finally. Found a cheap FM Towns 40H, a friend gave me an Amiga 1200 that's upgraded like crazy, and I built an old DOS machine running an AMD 5x86 133mhz CPU.

I play most of my games on a Mitsubishi XC2930c, and while it's multiscan and takes just about everything, it's WAY WAY too big for my desk, and I'd like something more reasonable for playing on the computers. 14-20" would be nice.

Are there any notable old PC monitor models that support all the resolutions I'm looking for? I'm not finding anything lower than SVGA locally, and while I don't mind looking on eBay or other places on-line, I don't know what to search for exactly.

The only monitor I've found that seems to tick all the boxes is a Commodore 1960, but I am not finding any for sale, and I'm sure there are dozens of other models of monitor out there that are just a capable (and perhaps may not carry the Commodore brand tax).

I'm in the USA for what that's worth.
Why not try a tri-sync arcade monitor? They are still easily available both new and used and you can connect a PC directly through a db15 cable.
DejahThoris
Posts: 719
Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:26 pm
Location: Riverside, CA

Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by DejahThoris »

Classicgamer wrote:Why not try a tri-sync arcade monitor? They are still easily available both new and used and you can connect a PC directly through a db15 cable.
Lots of reasons, really.

Not enclosed, no compatibility with 8/16/64 color digital signals, not compatible with monochrome text signals (are those called TTL?)

All the readily available ones are not desk sized (29 seems to be the most common, and the cheapest, and I already have 8 or 9 in my storage.)

If it were just for the Sharp and Amiga I'd consider it as they can display just analog RGB out, but running EGA out of the DOS machine would be lost, as would the monochrome mode (which I'm excited to muck about with with the new virtual tap).

I'm comfortable spending a little more to get something that will simply work with all of my old computers and just sit on the desk on top of the Amiga.
NJRoadfan
Posts: 154
Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:01 am

Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by NJRoadfan »

DejahThoris wrote: This one doesn't have the adapter unfortunately. I'm assuming I can make one though!

Thanks for the confirmation!
Here are the pinouts for the 9-pin on the monitor.

Code: Select all

Analog Mode:
Pin 1: Red Video
Pin 2: Green Video
Pin 3: Blue Video
Pin 4: H. Sync OR Composite Sync
Pin 5: V. Sync (leave disconnected if using a machine with composite sync)
Pin 6: Red Ground
Pin 7: Green Ground
Pin 8: Blue Ground
Pin 9: Ground
Note: The monitor also supports sync-on-green.

CGA/EGA/MDA TTL video uses a straight thru DB-9 cable, the pin assignments are the same as on the video card.
DejahThoris
Posts: 719
Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:26 pm
Location: Riverside, CA

Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by DejahThoris »

Thank you so much for that, NJRoadfan.
DejahThoris
Posts: 719
Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:26 pm
Location: Riverside, CA

Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by DejahThoris »

Just wanted to say I picked up the Multisync II the other day, and made DB9->DB15 adapter today. This thing is brilliant. Thank you to everyone who helped.
User avatar
FinalBaton
Posts: 4461
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:38 pm
Location: Québec City

Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by FinalBaton »

Posted this in the misc forum regarding game tips, but I might as well post it here :

this is from my consumer Trinitron

Image

not the greatest pic, but oh well. it does at least give an idea of how pitcure looks on yhat set
-FM Synth & Black Metal-
User avatar
Hoagtech
Posts: 939
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:53 am
Location: Bellingham, WA

Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Hoagtech »

Is that the native RGB on that tv?
Copyright 1987
User avatar
FinalBaton
Posts: 4461
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:38 pm
Location: Québec City

Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by FinalBaton »

Yep!

It's even more vibrant in person tho, my camera is not very good


Here are a couple more attempts

Image
Image
-FM Synth & Black Metal-
User avatar
Einzelherz
Posts: 1279
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:09 am

Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Einzelherz »

What model set is it?
User avatar
Steamflogger Boss
Posts: 3075
Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2017 3:29 pm
Location: Eating the Rich

Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Steamflogger Boss »

Picked up a Dell Ultrascan P1110 for $10. Unfortunately it's got a bit of a red tint. It can be compensated for in the menu, but who knows how long it has left now. Otherwise quite a nice monitor. I'll use it until it goes.
User avatar
FinalBaton
Posts: 4461
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:38 pm
Location: Québec City

Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by FinalBaton »

Einzelherz wrote:What model set is it?
a KV-25XBR
-FM Synth & Black Metal-
Namingway_PL
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:14 am

Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Namingway_PL »

Hello everyone!

Yesterday i bought a Pioneer PDP v402E with 26k hours on the counter. There is no burn-in, the colours are nice and I realy like this beiutiful monitor, but it has got a issue. When I turn on the OSD, the letters are shimmering on the edges:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0jrudv77q88rs ... 2.mp4?dl=0

I think this could be a problem with the power suply, because it is making a buzzing sound. Any ideas?
DejahThoris
Posts: 719
Joined: Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:26 pm
Location: Riverside, CA

Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by DejahThoris »

Namingway_PL wrote:Hello everyone!

Yesterday i bought a Pioneer PDP v402E with 26k hours on the counter. There is no burn-in, the colours are nice and I realy like this beiutiful monitor, but it has got a issue. When I turn on the OSD, the letters are shimmering on the edges:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0jrudv77q88rs ... 2.mp4?dl=0

I think this could be a problem with the power suply, because it is making a buzzing sound. Any ideas?
I don't have an answer for you, but how does one check the hours? I'd like to on mine.
Namingway_PL
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:14 am

Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Namingway_PL »

When the monitor is in standby mode, You have to press menu and turn on the monitor, and a sub menu will appear.

I realy hope that my issue is caused by the power suply, and it can be fixed...
User avatar
bobrocks95
Posts: 3461
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:27 am
Location: Kentucky

Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by bobrocks95 »

Namingway_PL wrote:Hello everyone!

Yesterday i bought a Pioneer PDP v402E with 26k hours on the counter. There is no burn-in, the colours are nice and I realy like this beiutiful monitor, but it has got a issue. When I turn on the OSD, the letters are shimmering on the edges:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0jrudv77q88rs ... 2.mp4?dl=0

I think this could be a problem with the power suply, because it is making a buzzing sound. Any ideas?
I can't watch your video on my phone, but that buzzing you're hearing is probably good old fashioned plasma buzzing. I also thought something was wrong when I first got an old plasma.
The buzzing changes pitch/volume based on what's on-screen right?
PS1 Disc-Based Game ID BIOS patch for MemCard Pro and SD2PSX automatic VMC switching.
User avatar
Tempest_2084
Posts: 593
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:05 pm

Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Tempest_2084 »

Hopefully this is the appropriate thread for this, if not feel free to zap it. I didn't think starting a whole new thread was appropriate.

I have a Panasonic CT-27D11E that I'm using for my consoles. I'm using a Shinybow SCART to Component adapter with it and it seems to work really nice. My only problem is that the picture is tilted a bit and I can't figure out how to fix it. If you look at these pictures you'll see that the left side has a bit of a tilt, but it's not just a normal tilt as the right side shows a different kind of tilt. I entered the Serviceman menu but I didn't see anything to do with geometry controls other than V-Size and centering. I'm no stranger to cracking open the back of the TV (I have it open now actually) but just twisting the yoke a bit isn't going to fix this I think. What kind of adjustment do I need to get this back to a reasonable state? IS there anything I can do?

There's also a problem with some bowing inward in the center on the bottom (see the last picture) that I can't figure out how to fix either. Any ideas/

Image
Image
Image
Dochartaigh
Posts: 1520
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:53 pm

Re: Fudoh's ode to old display technology

Post by Dochartaigh »

I find this is pretty normal (I would say more often than not and I have a pretty huge number of PVM's which have gone through me) in 20"+ PVM's.

In BVM's, no. 14" PVM's, usually no. Maybe not to quite this degree of your pics (unless it's clearly evident the monitor has seen a LOT of use), but it's pretty common to have it there on the sides to some degree (the white slightly shifting over into the red). No fool proof way to fix it (want to say I've played with the rings before, and some older larger sets have a pot which will adjust only one area of the screen at a time), but I'll stay tuned if anybody has suggestions which I can try next time (have ~6x 20" right now I can mess with in fact).
Post Reply