TV RGB mod thread

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FinalBaton
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by FinalBaton »

viletim wrote: It's too old for this method. In needs to be mid '90s or later to have a RGB OSD input. This is when it became a standard jungle chip feature. It's less likely there's an unused RGB input on earlier sets as somebody would have had to pay for it.
Dammmmmn that's disapointing :( I love the KV-XXTS range, and was really hoping it was possible to rgb-mod them.... They got all the picture enhancement circuitry that the top-of -the-line KV-xxXBR has(and some early PVMs too) and same tube too. I frequently see KV-20TS30 sets(with s-video) round here and was thinking of grabbing one.

I'll echo what Zhoul was asking : is there a consensus of the best curved Trinitron set that can be rgb moded? And do people know which is the earliest curved model that can be modded?
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K0rN b4LL
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by K0rN b4LL »

Can someone tell me if there are mods available for a Sony Trinitron KV-27V35? I tried looking up the service manual for a diagram of the parts to see if there is an extra rgb but I have no idea how to read these things-
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/48107 ... =34#manual
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Syntax
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Syntax »

If you can't read or figure out where to start with this mod then you should probably go back through this thread and research some more.
Its an easy one.

https://prnt.sc/kussxv
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

Syntax wrote:If you can't read or figure out where to start with this mod then you should probably go back through this thread and research some more.
Its an easy one.

https://prnt.sc/kussxv
This is a good opportunity to document an OSD/External RGB Mux method for the BA-4 chassis.

Should be able to do the RGB mux by removing surface mount resistors R086, R087 and R088. Then tie The RGB lines to the legs of resistors R025, R026 and R027 that are farthest from IC001. The RGB lines will need 910R inline and the usual 75R terminations to ground. I guess could solder the 910R resistors to the R025/26/27.
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boogiemanspud
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by boogiemanspud »

K0rN b4LL wrote:Can someone tell me if there are mods available for a Sony Trinitron KV-27V35? I tried looking up the service manual for a diagram of the parts to see if there is an extra rgb but I have no idea how to read these things-
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/48107 ... =34#manual
Syntax already answered but it's definitely possible.
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boogiemanspud
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by boogiemanspud »

Bratwurst wrote:
boogiemanspud wrote:I recently curb picked an RCA 20F424T which is a nice 20" flatscreen shadowmask with component. It was raining and after a week of dry time with a fan I tried it. Wonderful picture and nice form factor. I found the service manual here: https://www.electronica-pt.com/esquema/ ... 106-17894/ .

Can anyone confirm that this set is not RGB moddable? The jungle chip has the obvious RGB outs but pin 19, 20, 21 appear to be CB, Y, CR in. I believe it's not a simple snip the osd pins and inject if it were possible, but I'd really appreciate if someone could confirm my suspicions. This set looks very nice picture wise so I'm hoping I overlooked something.

Thanks!
I tried looking up TA8892 and only found datasheets for semi-related jungle chips by Toshiba like TA8891, etc. Doesn't look like it has RGB inputs though. You could inject the signals straight to the guns, interrupting the RGB out lines just after the resistors?
Thanks for the confirmation. I didn't think it was. Damn, this is three in a row that aren't rgb moddable. I'll probably put it on facebook for free and see if anyone wants it. I should look them up before carting them home, but it's kind of difficult to be picky when curb shopping lol. :lol:
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arithmaldor
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by arithmaldor »

MarkOZLAD wrote:
arithmaldor wrote: The RGB lines from the micro had 1k ohm resistors in series and 200 ohm resistors to ground, then 0.1uf caps in series. I just injected after the 1k and replaced the 200's with 75 and it was good. I have some pics and I'll do a write up once I get everything put back together.
You’re only 3x100 ohm resistors from a perfect OSD/External RGB mux.
Yes I know, ordered a resistor kit since I've been meaning to stock up, going to use your and Syntax's schematic. :D Is this still accurate?
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

arithmaldor wrote:
MarkOZLAD wrote:
arithmaldor wrote: The RGB lines from the micro had 1k ohm resistors in series and 200 ohm resistors to ground, then 0.1uf caps in series. I just injected after the 1k and replaced the 200's with 75 and it was good. I have some pics and I'll do a write up once I get everything put back together.
You’re only 3x100 ohm resistors from a perfect OSD/External RGB mux.
Yes I know, ordered a resistor kit since I've been meaning to stock up, going to use your and Syntax's schematic. :D Is this still accurate?

This is my latest.

Image
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arithmaldor
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by arithmaldor »

Do you have a link to the calculator spreadsheet? I'm guessing its 100 ohm for mine as you said but I'd like to have it for reference. Thanks for the hard work!
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

arithmaldor wrote:Do you have a link to the calculator spreadsheet? I'm guessing its 100 ohm for mine as you said but I'd like to have it for reference. Thanks for the hard work!

Here's the spreadsheet link again...

Turns out I was wrong, a quick check of the spreadsheet shows your set needs 3x130R in place (not using diodes)

Image
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Syntax
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Syntax »

This is my preferred values when doing a full replacement of passive components.

Image
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FinalBaton
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by FinalBaton »

TylerL wrote:I wanted to say thank you for all the tips learned while lurking this thread, and show off my mod :D
After I was gifted a Sony KV20TR23, I looked up schematics for it online and was surprised to find that it has a (seemingly) rare daughterboard to handle closed captioning. This meant it has an awfully convenient socket on the main board with every necessary pin for analog RGB, fed directly to the Jungle chip. No soldering or board removal necessary!
Image

I spent a good amount of time on eBay and other sites looking for inexpensive SCART parts and accessories for my Genesis, SNES, Wii, and for VGA PC output. It seemed like EuroSCART was the best standard connector to work with.

This surface-mount SCART connector's pins look like they were meant for breadboard connectors...
Here, I've connected RGB along with their separate grounds, as well as the SCART shield ground itself.
Image

Pardon the breadboard mess. I plan to design and solder a nice compact module soon. Then again, I'm very lazy.
Image

Plugged right into the pins on the TV! Couldn't possibly be more convenient (unless, of course, this was a PAL60 TV in the first place...)
I've also tapped into YS and 5V to connect to my breadboard for activating blanking, and chassis ground as well connected to SCART shield ground.
Image

I found a SCART in-line "breakout" adapter that lets me tap into the Composite and Audio signals, which I feed into the traditional inputs on the back of the TV for Sync and Audio. (ignore the cable colors)
Image

Success! And somehow on the first try! Here's a video showing the complete setup, where I toggle the blanking pin high to provide a realtime example of the difference in quality on Sonic 2 through a model 1 Genesis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yQHp0pbHMI

Later, I perfected a Linux-based KMS RetroArch install, which feeds a 3840x240 15KHz signal over VGA. Gorgeous and lag-free. For the first time in over a decade, I can play my favorite old fast-twitch and precision platformer games without an emulation delay driving me nuts. Seriously, I've barely been able to enjoy retro gaming before this setup. In fact, the latency is so low, I don't even feel the need for real hardware in most cases!
Image
I've never been an fan of emulator CRT shaders, but the image quality on these ancient games somehow looks high-def on a good Trinitron.

My only issue with the VGA connection is a strange white fringing around high-contrast lines. The checkerboard pattern in the 240p Test SNES ROM looks nearly solid white, for example. Strangely enough, if I pass the VGA single through my Extron (no processing, just passthrough!), the resulting image is perfect. Am I missing something additional that needs to be done (resistors, etc) to the signal? I'd rather cut the Extron our of the chain, obviously...especially since it doesn't really DO anything.

Again, thanks for the insight! If you have any questions or comments, please let me know!
Hey man. so you're saying modding this tv is a lot easier than most, right? Due to that socket on the mainboard?

There's one near me and I figure this might be the best crack I'll ever have at RGB-modding a TV.

How hard would you say this mod is for a n00b (I've never opened a crt before, and never really read schematics nor did any electronic project. Hotest thing I've done is to make a 34-pin to SCART cable for my RGB Trinitron. And all the steps/infos for it were already documented. Lol).

Am I gonna be in over my head here?
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Diopter Doctor
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Diopter Doctor »

New to the thread (and to shmups) but have been following along for a few weeks.

I'm have a PVM-20M2U & a 14L5 and now I'm lookng into modding a 29" Sony trinitron to RGB.
I've never modded a crt to RGB but I've been following along here and a few youtubers.
I'm also going through the Khan Academy: Electrical Engineering section to actually understand what's happening in these mod suggestions.
I also have a some smaller crt's from 14-20" but also a 36" sony is availbile if I want to pick it up.
Does anyone have any suggestions for what size is recommended when modding these?
Meaning, is a bigger crt easier or better or vice-versa?

Thanks!
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Sammickk »

Been Lurking on this site for quite a while and after failing to find a decent priced PVM i've become interested in trying to do this. I've read allot on this forum and also read some beginner guides to building circuits. I still don't know allot of the lingo on some of the things you guys say, but I've been trying to research Whenever I get a spare moment. I think i can tell which TV's can be modded now by either looking at the service manual or looking up the data on the IC's I find in the tvs. Sorry for the Huge post but I want to give you as much information as possible to make this easier.

I live in a rural small town in WV, so my pickings on crt tvs are very slim. I've found a Akai CFT2490. I can't find the manual on this TV. I Even tried emailing the manufacturer for one which the North American location has been shut down, it seems most of their presence is in Europe. BUT I did find the data on all 3 main ICs on the mainboard. Based on all my lurking and researching this subject I wanna see if I'm correct in thinking that this TV can be modded. I Also took pictures of the chips on the main board because there is allot of info printed on the board, . Below are the chips and links to the data.

VDP 3112B C3 (i believe this in the Jungle Chip) Curious as to why there are 2sets of RGB In and F blanking? Look at pages 49-51
http://html.alldatasheet.com/html-pdf/1 ... 3112B.html

SDA 5525C A021 (Contains OSD) below is the best I can find on it. look at page 9.
https://datasheetspdf.com/pdf/555303/Mi ... /SDA55xx/1

MSP 34400 B6 (appears to handle the audio) I leave the audio lines alone correct?
http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-p ... 3440G.html

Scart pin layout
Spoiler
Image
OSD IC SDA..
Spoiler
Image
layout next to the jungle chip, this confuses me a little
Spoiler
Image
I can also see a scart layout that they have installed the regular video in lines on. I tried to trace the RGB pins off the jungle with my multimeter, (i barely know what I'm doing when it comes to this.) and the rgb in 2 seems to lead to that scart layout i mentioned. The other RGB in must go to the chip that contains the OSD correct?
I want to learn to do this as it seems like a fun challenge to me.
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Syntax
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Syntax »

Looks like you have done your research and are on the correct path :)

Your right in thinking that if you trace back the populated RGB input on the jungle it will lead to the OSD.
The spare inputs on the jungle are the ones you want.

Super easy mod.
4x75r resistors and 3x100n caps is all you need.
(Super common parts, you can salvage them from some other electronics)
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Alex
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Alex »

Hello

I am new to this forum, so a warm hello to everyone!

Monitor: KV-21X5R or the KV-21X5(x), (x)=any of the derivatives

I am in Europe and for obvious reasons, I just picked up a European Sony Trinitron CRT for one reason, to connect my first generation PS2.

From what I understand some of the EU and JP consumer TVs were already setup to do RGB-in via SCART? Is this correct? The KV-21X5R that I received was not even plugged in, I immediately took it totally apart for a nice restoration and clean up and it is sitting waiting for a re-assembly.

does the Sony KV-21X5R monitor already have RGB-in via SCART?

I included the Service Manual, page 25 has a block diagram but it doesn't appear to use RGB in for SCART. Could someone confirm this for me? Page 27 shows IC301, which is a CXA2060AS Y/C Jungle with what appear to be 2 RGB and BLK inputs for what I believe correspond to the dual SCARTs on the back of the set.

I am not very good at reading schematics and block diagrams but if someone with a well trained eye could fill in the blank it would help me learn if I need to research how to do the RGB mod for my set.

I shared the service manual for anyone who might want to help me get this first question answered.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=10DSOT ... UVx5I1bTSK


I am really excited to be here and I appreciate your help in advance. Cheers!
—Alex
Last edited by Alex on Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
MarkOZLAD
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

FinalBaton wrote:Am I gonna be in over my head here?
If you can't mod this one give up.
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

Sammickk wrote:I live in a rural small town in WV, so my pickings on crt tvs are very slim. I've found a Akai CFT2490. I can't find the manual on this TV.
If you are looking to desolder the AV port and install Scart there you will need to work out a mini schematic yourself based on inspection of the chassis. It's normally a good idea to try and get good photos of the top and bottom of the chassis and also to probe with a multimeter to find out exactly where traces go.

The LG MC-99AA chassis uses the same jungle chip and its schematic may be helpful. Note you can ignore the TEA5114 chip (IC202) because it is bypassed with jumpers J56/57/58 and 59.

Some likely things you will need to implement. There will be places on the chassis waiting for you.

1) The 75R terminations on the RGB lines and Fast Blanking line. 75R to ground.
2) The voltage divider for scart pin 8 (often 33KR/24KR or 15KR/6.8KR) that reduces 12V to 5V
3) There will quite often be a small inline resistor on the Fast Blanking, maybe 100R.
4) Capacitors on the RGB lines, probably 0.01uf/0.015uF/0.1uF
5) There may be missing jumpers on any of these lines

You may also need to get into a service menu and enable scart in the options.
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by arithmaldor »

Thanks for the help guys. Since I already had the resistors removed I just replaced them all with the values on Syntax's schematic. I took plenty of pictures so I'll be doing a detailed write-up soon.

Results Video
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FinalBaton
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by FinalBaton »

MarkOZLAD wrote:If you can't mod this one give up.
ooooooookay...

I guess that was a really cold way of saying "this is as easy as it get" :lol:


I'll ask TylerL what's the circuit he build on that breadboard, if I ever decide to tackle this endeavor.
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

FinalBaton wrote:I'll ask TylerL what's the circuit he build on that breadboard, if I ever decide to tackle this endeavor.
Like this?

Image
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FinalBaton
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by FinalBaton »

Excellent! Thank you for this diagram. Now I'm ready to do this
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Syntax
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Syntax »

I'd put a 180R inline + 75R termination on that YS blanking line to bring it down to 1.4v.
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

Syntax wrote:I'd put a 180R inline + 75R termination on that YS blanking line to bring it down to 1.4v.
I’m a 2K4R/1KR man myself. I’m quirky like that.
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Sammickk »

MarkOZLAD wrote:
If you are looking to desolder the AV port and install Scart there you will need to work out a mini schematic yourself based on inspection of the chassis. It's normally a good idea to try and get good photos of the top and bottom of the chassis and also to probe with a multimeter to find out exactly where traces go.

The LG MC-99AA chassis uses the same jungle chip and its schematic may be helpful. Note you can ignore the TEA5114 chip (IC202) because it is bypassed with jumpers J56/57/58 and 59.

Some likely things you will need to implement. There will be places on the chassis waiting for you.

1) The 75R terminations on the RGB lines and Fast Blanking line. 75R to ground.
2) The voltage divider for scart pin 8 (often 33KR/24KR or 15KR/6.8KR) that reduces 12V to 5V
3) There will quite often be a small inline resistor on the Fast Blanking, maybe 100R.
4) Capacitors on the RGB lines, probably 0.01uf/0.015uF/0.1uF
5) There may be missing jumpers on any of these lines

You may also need to get into a service menu and enable scart in the options.
Would I need to desolder the AV ports? Could I just Tie in from the bottom and mount a scart plug on the back of the TV? there is plenty of room.
Ok I manually traced the RGBIN2 and F/B2 points from the the scart port on the board all the way to the Jungle see pic below for my crude diagram.
Spoiler
Image
As far As I can tell from my novice experience, from the scart port on the board, RGB and F/B all go through the resistors listed on my drawing, then the RGB lines from there go to a capacitor (that looks like a resistor lol ) then to the jungle pins. the F/B just appears to go through the resistor and straight to its pin. ALL the Ground lines go through the resistor and then to pin 55, which is linked to many things, i guess this is a ground point shared by multiple lines correct?

1)these go inline from my female scart plug's RGB and F/B to the jungle and I find a spot on he board to ground to? I'm a little confused on how all these pieces fit in.
2)just throw in the resistor combo from the pin 8 on the board inline to scart pin 8 correct?
3)i didn't see one.. I would have had to jump across it while tracing on the back of the board wouldn't I?
4)again inline to the jungle from my scart plug?
5) if there was a missing jumper I wouldn't have made it all they way across the board correct?

So i see you didn't mention a switch or anything about the OSD, or a switch, are you thinking I can just enable scart from the service menu or if its already enabled (unlikely) I can just turn on my Nes and it switches to that source?.

here are 2 other board shots that show front and back of the board and the resistors and capacitors I encountered along the route.
Spoiler
Image
Spoiler
Image
Again please be patient with me 先生's (sensei's lol) as I'm still learning and struggling to make sense of all this. and Thanks for the help so far! i feel like I made some big steps last night tracing with the multimeter, and I don't really just want someone to tell me answer I want to understand it and what I'm doing if that makes sense.
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

Sammickk wrote: Would I need to desolder the AV ports? Could I just Tie in from the bottom and mount a scart plug on the back of the TV? there is plenty of room.
Yes, you can definitely do that. I just think it's neater to get rid of the AV port and put the Scart plug straight in but completely a matter of opinion. Remember if you don't remove the AV port and solder in a Scart port you will need to run wires from the Scart port for sync and audio to the AV ports. (or use a AV/LR Audio breakout adaptor). If you do install a Scart port and later want to input composite AV/Audio you can get an adaptor or possibly run to side/front inputs.

Sammickk wrote:Ok I manually traced the RGBIN2 and F/B2 points from the the scart port on the board all the way to the Jungle see pic below for my crude diagram.
Spoiler
Image
As far As I can tell from my novice experience, from the scart port on the board, RGB and F/B all go through the resistors listed on my drawing, then the RGB lines from there go to a capacitor (that looks like a resistor lol ) then to the jungle pins. the F/B just appears to go through the resistor and straight to its pin. ALL the Ground lines go through the resistor and then to pin 55, which is linked to many things, i guess this is a ground point shared by multiple lines correct?

1)these go inline from my female scart plug's RGB and F/B to the jungle and I find a spot on he board to ground to? I'm a little confused on how all these pieces fit in.
2)just throw in the resistor combo from the pin 8 on the board inline to scart pin 8 correct?
3)i didn't see one.. I would have had to jump across it while tracing on the back of the board wouldn't I?
4)again inline to the jungle from my scart plug?
5) if there was a missing jumper I wouldn't have made it all they way across the board correct?

So i see you didn't mention a switch or anything about the OSD, or a switch, are you thinking I can just enable scart from the service menu or if its already enabled (unlikely) I can just turn on my Nes and it switches to that source?.

here are 2 other board shots that show front and back of the board and the resistors and capacitors I encountered along the route.
Spoiler
Image
Spoiler
Image
Again please be patient with me 先生's (sensei's lol) as I'm still learning and struggling to make sense of all this. and Thanks for the help so far! i feel like I made some big steps last night tracing with the multimeter, and I don't really just want someone to tell me answer I want to understand it and what I'm doing if that makes sense.
Ok, this all looks pretty much ready to rock. The Violet/Green/Black/Gold resistors are your 75R to ground. These provide the 75 Ohm terminations on your RGB and Blanking lines.

The Brown/Black/Brown/Gold are 100R, I believe these are essentially current limiting (I could be totally wrong) and their presence is normal and good.

Most everything appears to be in place from the factory. Got to love that!

Can you please trace out the Scart pin 8 circuit?

As for the switch, RGB is enabled via the scart pin 16 sending 1-3V through to the Fast Blanking Pin of the Jungle chip. Pin 8 of scart provides a 5-12V signal which is designed to automatically switch the TV to the Scart input (doesn't always work when modding).

Please review the Wikipedia article about Scart. It is always a great place to start. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCART

So you should not need a switch. When you turn on a console that is attached to the TV via the Scart port the voltages on pins 8 and 16 tell the TV to go into AV mode and enable RGB respectively. In the case where pin 8 doesn't automatically switch to AV mode you may need to manually change the TV to AV mode.

People install switches to enable RGB mode on TVs because it's an easy and reliable way to force the RGB mode (and sometimes they're is no scart Pin 16 voltage available) . It's not necessary when you have an unpopulated Scart port on the chassis.

As for the OSD, it goes to a different RGB input on the Jungle and should continue to work as per normal.
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Radiantsvgun »

I have a Tosh 27 pure flat that I'm wondering if it can be RGB modded. I think I have the correct part of the service manual, but I'm at a loss of where to go from here. It is a component TV if that matters.

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/69969 ... =20#manual
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

Radiantsvgun wrote:I have a Tosh 27 pure flat that I'm wondering if it can be RGB modded. I think I have the correct part of the service manual, but I'm at a loss of where to go from here. It is a component TV if that matters.

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/69969 ... =20#manual
It appears highly likely that this TV can be RGB modded. It will be worthwhile you doing the research into how it is done.

Hint: OSD/External RGB mix (nee mux) method....
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MarkOZLAD
OSD/External RGB Mux Diagram
OSD/External RGB Mux Resistor Value Table 0.7Vp-p : 0.5Vp-p

"Imagine toggle switch OSD modding a TV in 2019" - maxtherabbit
ALBERTO TEC
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:06 pm

Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by ALBERTO TEC »

Hello, this is the card I made to replace the IF-C01COMG for my TM-H1950
Image
Classicgamer
Posts: 873
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:37 pm

Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Classicgamer »

I knew I had seen this other type of RGB mod somewhere. This guy connected an RGB signal directly to the neck board as he found wires labeled R G and B.

https://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=2755.0


This might be an alternative to the Jungle IC hack on older TVs (and maybe some newer ones too) if you can find where red blue and green is fed to the guns. The RGB port on my arcade monitor (which has no OSD or digital features) seems to connect to the neck board.
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