gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thread

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the Goat
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Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre

Post by the Goat »

superg wrote:
amontre wrote:I'm trying to connect gscartsw to Extron 203 RXi but i got this horizontal scrolling. The cable (scart male to vga with audio breakout) are made by my friend, could this be a cable problem ? As you can see the 2nd display without extron are perfectly fine.
VGA expects separate HV sync, gscartsw_lite outputs combined sync. I don't see how that can work if both HV syncs aren't provided on VGA output. Or does extron supports combined sync on VGA? Sorry not familiar with extron.
The Extron 204 RXi accepts RGBS on its VGA inputs (also RGBHV, RGsB, and RsGsBs). But I cannot quickly find documentation regarding which pin they use for composite sync.
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Gara
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Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre

Post by Gara »

amontre wrote:I'm trying to connect gscartsw to Extron 203 RXi but i got this horizontal scrolling. The cable (scart male to vga with audio breakout) are made by my friend, could this be a cable problem ? As you can see the 2nd display without extron are perfectly fine.
I had to get a cable built with a LM1881N sync stripper in it to pair the gscartsw to my RGB Rxi 203. I was using a female scart to BNC (from Wookieewin) with a LM1881N in to a BNC to DB15 adapter. It works fine on all systems but my Genesis. I recently replaced that setup with a Sync Strike. It's a more elegant solution but did not fix my Genesis problem.

Since I had cables to spare after the Sync Strike experiment I got around my PVM only having one input by doing the following

gscartsw>Sync Strike>Extron RGB 203>Extron SW2 RGBHV 2x1 switch>PVM

The other input on the Extron 2x1 is the secondary output of the gscartsw with my old scart to BNC cable. This way I have a clean output for the troublesome Genesis and one for everything to go through the Extron 203. The horizontal and vertical knobs are a godsend for multiple systems on a PVM. I'm not crazy about a switch for my switch but it doesn't seem to be causing me any trouble like this.
nmalinoski
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Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre

Post by nmalinoski »

the Goat wrote:
superg wrote:
amontre wrote:I'm trying to connect gscartsw to Extron 203 RXi but i got this horizontal scrolling. The cable (scart male to vga with audio breakout) are made by my friend, could this be a cable problem ? As you can see the 2nd display without extron are perfectly fine.
VGA expects separate HV sync, gscartsw_lite outputs combined sync. I don't see how that can work if both HV syncs aren't provided on VGA output. Or does extron supports combined sync on VGA? Sorry not familiar with extron.
The Extron 204 RXi accepts RGBS on its VGA inputs (also RGBHV, RGsB, and RsGsBs). But I cannot quickly find documentation regarding which pin they use for composite sync.
Could it be that the 203 rxi requires clean composite sync, and it's being fed luma or composite video as sync instead; or perhaps the 203 rxi requires TTL-level sync, where the consoles and gscartsw are providing 75Ohm?
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amontre
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Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre

Post by amontre »

Gara wrote:
amontre wrote:I'm trying to connect gscartsw to Extron 203 RXi but i got this horizontal scrolling. The cable (scart male to vga with audio breakout) are made by my friend, could this be a cable problem ? As you can see the 2nd display without extron are perfectly fine.
I had to get a cable built with a LM1881N sync stripper in it to pair the gscartsw to my RGB Rxi 203. I was using a female scart to BNC (from Wookieewin) with a LM1881N in to a BNC to DB15 adapter. It works fine on all systems but my Genesis. I recently replaced that setup with a Sync Strike. It's a more elegant solution but did not fix my Genesis problem.

Since I had cables to spare after the Sync Strike experiment I got around my PVM only having one input by doing the following

gscartsw>Sync Strike>Extron RGB 203>Extron SW2 RGBHV 2x1 switch>PVM

The other input on the Extron 2x1 is the secondary output of the gscartsw with my old scart to BNC cable. This way I have a clean output for the troublesome Genesis and one for everything to go through the Extron 203. The horizontal and vertical knobs are a godsend for multiple systems on a PVM. I'm not crazy about a switch for my switch but it doesn't seem to be causing me any trouble like this.
i'm going to pull the trigger on sync strike. Let see how if this will solve the scrolling issue.
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superg
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Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre

Post by superg »

amontre wrote: i'm going to pull the trigger on sync strike. Let see how if this will solve the scrolling issue.
You can also get XSYNC from Framemeister creator but it's Jp21 so adapter is needed.
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Gara
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Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre

Post by Gara »

amontre wrote:
Gara wrote:
amontre wrote:I'm trying to connect gscartsw to Extron 203 RXi but i got this horizontal scrolling. The cable (scart male to vga with audio breakout) are made by my friend, could this be a cable problem ? As you can see the 2nd display without extron are perfectly fine.
I had to get a cable built with a LM1881N sync stripper in it to pair the gscartsw to my RGB Rxi 203. I was using a female scart to BNC (from Wookieewin) with a LM1881N in to a BNC to DB15 adapter. It works fine on all systems but my Genesis. I recently replaced that setup with a Sync Strike. It's a more elegant solution but did not fix my Genesis problem.

Since I had cables to spare after the Sync Strike experiment I got around my PVM only having one input by doing the following

gscartsw>Sync Strike>Extron RGB 203>Extron SW2 RGBHV 2x1 switch>PVM

The other input on the Extron 2x1 is the secondary output of the gscartsw with my old scart to BNC cable. This way I have a clean output for the troublesome Genesis and one for everything to go through the Extron 203. The horizontal and vertical knobs are a godsend for multiple systems on a PVM. I'm not crazy about a switch for my switch but it doesn't seem to be causing me any trouble like this.
i'm going to pull the trigger on sync strike. Let see how if this will solve the scrolling issue.
Should fix you up. I had the same sync issue. I started out really wanting this

https://www.videogameperfection.com/201 ... le-review/

I couldn't get retro UK or even retro access to make me one. It was what clued me in that I needed the sync stripper.

You should consider the sync slayer. About the same price as the sync strike. As far as I can tell it doesn't add any functionality our setups will benefit from but it's a pretty. Plus you support an emerging developer in the retro community

https://www.8bitgasm.com/products/syncslayer
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amontre
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Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre

Post by amontre »

Gara wrote:

Should fix you up. I had the same sync issue. I started out really wanting this

https://www.videogameperfection.com/201 ... le-review/

I couldn't get retro UK or even retro access to make me one. It was what clued me in that I needed the sync stripper.

You should consider the sync slayer. About the same price as the sync strike. As far as I can tell it doesn't add any functionality our setups will benefit from but it's a pretty. Plus you support an emerging developer in the retro community

https://www.8bitgasm.com/products/syncslayer
Thanks for syncslayer suggestion. Also, i kept wondering why retrogamingcable UK and others stop selling such cable.
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c0nn0r
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Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre

Post by c0nn0r »

Sorry if this has been answered before, but where/how can I pre-order a gscartsw_lite? First post says pre-orders are open, but the link says sold out. Help! Very interested to order this product!
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superg
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Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre

Post by superg »

Have just finished ordering case parts. Ordered enough to fulfill all the current pre-orders + estimated extras if somebody will pre-order until I order a big PCB batch part.
hoosiershadow
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Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre

Post by hoosiershadow »

superg wrote:Have just finished ordering case parts. Ordered enough to fulfill all the current pre-orders + estimated extras if somebody will pre-order until I order a big PCB batch part.

How long do you plan on leaving the pre-orders open? I get paid on the 14th and hope to order 2 switches then if it’s still open. Thanks
slerch666
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Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre

Post by slerch666 »

c0nn0r wrote:Sorry if this has been answered before, but where/how can I pre-order a gscartsw_lite? First post says pre-orders are open, but the link says sold out. Help! Very interested to order this product!
Superg went back to the original gscartsw name. No more lite.


You can order here

http://www.gretrostuff.com/store/gscartsw/
slerch666
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Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre

Post by slerch666 »

hoosiershadow wrote:
superg wrote:Have just finished ordering case parts. Ordered enough to fulfill all the current pre-orders + estimated extras if somebody will pre-order until I order a big PCB batch part.

How long do you plan on leaving the pre-orders open? I get paid on the 14th and hope to order 2 switches then if it’s still open. Thanks
He's leaving orders open. It's a rolling preorder. As folks preorder, when he has enough to justify the order to the supplier he then orders.

Process will take almost 2.5 months so be prepared to pay, and then wait patiently.
Dopefish
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Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre

Post by Dopefish »

superg wrote:Have just finished ordering case parts. Ordered enough to fulfill all the current pre-orders + estimated extras if somebody will pre-order until I order a big PCB batch part.
Just placed an order now. Hopefully I made it in for the extras in this batch. Keep up the good work!
comp1demon
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Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre

Post by comp1demon »

Superg - Did I read incorrectly on launch day that you said you had a few complete units on hand for the very first buyers? Or was that worded differently. Seems the order page text has drastically changed since launch day.
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superg
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Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre

Post by superg »

comp1demon wrote:Superg - Did I read incorrectly on launch day that you said you had a few complete units on hand for the very first buyers? Or was that worded differently. Seems the order page text has drastically changed since launch day.
Not a single thing changed on the order page. Maybe you've read gscartsw_lite page instead of gscartsw?
I said that I'm going to split the current batch into two, small one to recheck everything and large one which will cover everybody else. Smal batch was ordered a week ago.
Arvid
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Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre

Post by Arvid »

I ordered one of these switches about a week ago and now I´m about to order some scart cables from Retro gaming cables UK. Does it matter if I use CSYNC or sync on luma cables? I already have CSYNC cables for some of my consoles connected directly to my PVM and was thinking of ordering some more of those if that will work?
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superg
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Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre

Post by superg »

Arvid wrote:I ordered one of these switches about a week ago and now I´m about to order some scart cables from Retro gaming cables UK. Does it matter if I use CSYNC or sync on luma cables? I already have CSYNC cables for some of my consoles connected directly to my PVM and was thinking of ordering some more of those if that will work?
Any CSYNC or sync on luma cable will work if it's properly attenuated. RGC cables are usually fine.
nmalinoski
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Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre

Post by nmalinoski »

Arvid wrote:I ordered one of these switches about a week ago and now I´m about to order some scart cables from Retro gaming cables UK. Does it matter if I use CSYNC or sync on luma cables? I already have CSYNC cables for some of my consoles connected directly to my PVM and was thinking of ordering some more of those if that will work?
Assuming the gscartsw 5.x doesn't behave any differently than the 4.x/lite when using cables with built-in sync strippers, you may run into issues when using those cables with the gscartsw's sync regeneration enabled.

With that in mind, if you were to mix cables with and without sync-strippers, I imagine you'd have to toggle sync regeneration on or off depending on the console you want to play--it won't be as simple as turning one console off and turning the next one on.

If you intend to use the RGsB->RGBS functionality, I assume that requires sync regeneration to be enabled, so you'll probably need a sync-on-luma SCART cable instead of one with a sync stripper in order to use ED/HD modes in RGB on an unmodified PS2. Or, if you're up for it, mod your PS2 to always output CSync to avoid the RGsB problem altogether.


For me, I intend to steer clear of cables with sync strippers, instead opting for native CSync (like the SNES), sync-on-luma, or sync-on-composite cables, in that order; and, if I ever find I need to connect any of them to something that requires clean CSync, I'll use either the sync regeneration on the gscartsw, or I'll try to track down or build an inline sync stripper.
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Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre

Post by Lux »

Small question : I have a PS2 Slim with a Retro Gaming Cables RGB cable. Is sync on green something different / better ? Is it something that requires a special cable or simply an option on the gscartsw ? Thanks!
nmalinoski
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Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre

Post by nmalinoski »

Lux wrote:Small question : I have a PS2 Slim with a Retro Gaming Cables RGB cable. Is sync on green something different / better ? Is it something that requires a special cable or simply an option on the gscartsw ? Thanks!
Sync-on-Green just means that composite sync is muxed on the Green line rather than on its own wire(s). It's still the same RGB, but it's unusable for SCART applications precisely because it lacks a discrete line for composite sync.

Where RGsB/SoG becomes a problem is when you're trying to output ED/HD video modes, in RGB, on a PS2. For SD video modes, the PS2 provides sync via the composite video line, or luma if you have a boutique aftermarket cable, and that works fine with SCART; however, when the console switches to ED/HD modes, both composite video and luma get shut off, leaving SCART without its sync signal, and thus your display without an image.

There are a few workarounds, like switching to YPbPr component, or performing a hardware modification to force the console to always output RGBS, neither of which is always feasible or desirable. With the new gscartsw, however, we now have a solution to the PS2's ED/HD in RGB problem that doesn't require any modifications (Just a ~$240 investment).
fernan1234
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Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre

Post by fernan1234 »

Has anyone compiled a list of ED/HD PS2 games that would benefit from the RGB sync-on-green advantage offered by the gscartsw?
nmalinoski
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Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre

Post by nmalinoski »

fernan1234 wrote:Has anyone compiled a list of ED/HD PS2 games that would benefit from the RGB sync-on-green advantage offered by the gscartsw?
It doesn't list 720p compatibility (Which I'm pretty sure Gran Turismo 4 has), but 240p, 480p, and 1080i are stats tracked on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_P ... play_modes
Arvid
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Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre

Post by Arvid »

nmalinoski wrote: Assuming the gscartsw 5.x doesn't behave any differently than the 4.x/lite when using cables with built-in sync strippers, you may run into issues when using those cables with the gscartsw's sync regeneration enabled.

With that in mind, if you were to mix cables with and without sync-strippers, I imagine you'd have to toggle sync regeneration on or off depending on the console you want to play--it won't be as simple as turning one console off and turning the next one on.

If you intend to use the RGsB->RGBS functionality, I assume that requires sync regeneration to be enabled, so you'll probably need a sync-on-luma SCART cable instead of one with a sync stripper in order to use ED/HD modes in RGB on an unmodified PS2. Or, if you're up for it, mod your PS2 to always output CSync to avoid the RGsB problem altogether.


For me, I intend to steer clear of cables with sync strippers, instead opting for native CSync (like the SNES), sync-on-luma, or sync-on-composite cables, in that order; and, if I ever find I need to connect any of them to something that requires clean CSync, I'll use either the sync regeneration on the gscartsw, or I'll try to track down or build an inline sync stripper.
First off, thanks for taking the time to help me. I´m a bit of a noob at this still so I´m not quite following you on all this sync stuff.
In what cases would using the RGsB->RGBS functionality be something I would want to do?
For the PS2, the only time using a CSYNC cable would be a problem is when using ED/HD modes (anything 480P and higher?) ?

My setup consists of Sony 20L5 PVM and right now I have a PS1 connected to it with a CSYNC RGB cable which is working just fine.
The other consoles I will be connecting are a Sega Master System 1, a Sega Mega Drive, a Super Nintendo and a PS2.
Would it be best if all of these were connected with the same type of cable CSYNC/Luma or is it not going to a big deal in practice?
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superg
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Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre

Post by superg »

Arvid wrote: In what cases would using the RGsB->RGBS functionality be something I would want to do?
For the PS2, the only time using a CSYNC cable would be a problem is when using ED/HD modes (anything 480P and higher?) ?

Would it be best if all of these were connected with the same type of cable CSYNC/Luma or is it not going to a big deal in practice?
For a number of PS2 games you can choose a better video mode (higher resolution / progressive) but when it's selected, the PS2 will stop outputting standard RGBS signal and switch to sync on green. Sync on green is supported mostly by Sony equipment and OSSC. You will benefit from RGsB->RGBS conversion only if you want to play games with better video on standard RGBS equipment.
(but if you're upgrading from gscartsw_lite it also makes sense because SoG will be forwarded just fine with this switch version comparing to lite)
Arvid
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Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre

Post by Arvid »

superg wrote: For a number of PS2 games you can choose a better video mode (higher resolution / progressive) but when it's selected, the PS2 will stop outputting standard RGBS signal and switch to sync on green. Sync on green is supported mostly by Sony equipment and OSSC. You will benefit from RGsB->RGBS conversion only if you want to play games with better video on standard RGBS equipment.
(but if you're upgrading from gscartsw_lite it also makes sense because SoG will be forwarded just fine with this switch version comparing to lite)
So for the purposes of using these better video modes: would it matter if the PS2 was connected to the gscartsw with either a Sync on Luma or a CSYNC cable, would there be a difference ?
nmalinoski
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Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre

Post by nmalinoski »

Arvid wrote:
superg wrote: For a number of PS2 games you can choose a better video mode (higher resolution / progressive) but when it's selected, the PS2 will stop outputting standard RGBS signal and switch to sync on green. Sync on green is supported mostly by Sony equipment and OSSC. You will benefit from RGsB->RGBS conversion only if you want to play games with better video on standard RGBS equipment.
(but if you're upgrading from gscartsw_lite it also makes sense because SoG will be forwarded just fine with this switch version comparing to lite)
So for the purposes of using these better video modes: would it matter if the PS2 was connected to the gscartsw with either a Sync on Luma or a CSYNC cable, would there be a difference ?
No, neither cable would make a difference, because they both require luma or composite video for sync; and, since both luma and composite video get shut off when the PS2 switches to those better modes, both cables will equally not work without the new gscartsw's RGsB->RGBS conversion enabled. :)

Like I said before, the only problem you might run into would be when using a CSync cable with the gscartsw's sync regeneration turned on, which I think might be required in order to use RGsB->RGBS conversion.
Arvid
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Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre

Post by Arvid »

nmalinoski wrote: Like I said before, the only problem you might run into would be when using a CSync cable with the gscartsw's sync regeneration turned on, which I think might be required in order to use RGsB->RGBS conversion.
I see, thanks for the explanation :)

I see that my PVM 20L5 supports sync on green so that means I might not need to use the RGsB -> RGBS conversion anyway?
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Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre

Post by nmalinoski »

Arvid wrote:
nmalinoski wrote: Like I said before, the only problem you might run into would be when using a CSync cable with the gscartsw's sync regeneration turned on, which I think might be required in order to use RGsB->RGBS conversion.
I see, thanks for the explanation :)

I see that my PVM 20L5 supports sync on green so that means I might not need to use the RGsB -> RGBS conversion anyway?
Correct; however, you'll need the new gscartsw's RGsB passthrough to use it, otherwise the input won't be detected.

If your PVM doesn't automatically switch between internal and external sync, you might just want to set the gscartsw to convert RGsB to RGBS so you don't have to toggle anything on your PVM every time you switch to or from your PS2.
Arvid
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Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre

Post by Arvid »

nmalinoski wrote: Correct; however, you'll need the new gscartsw's RGsB passthrough to use it, otherwise the input won't be detected.

If your PVM doesn't automatically switch between internal and external sync, you might just want to set the gscartsw to convert RGsB to RGBS so you don't have to toggle anything on your PVM every time you switch to or from your PS2.
There´s no automatic switching but there´s a dedicated button for it on the front so no big deal if I have to do it manually.

Anyway, I don´t have a scart switch now but really looking forward to getting the new version when it arrives. I´ll just have to experiment with the different settings when that time comes I guess :)
TheLordGuardian
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Re: gscartsw / gscartsw_lite / gcompsw switches support thre

Post by TheLordGuardian »

Hello, I tried to post before but it did not seem to work.

I tried to preorder a gscartsw but on the paypal site the price is listed as 9999 USD (with shipping to Luxemburg)
Is there something I can do to place apreorder with the correct price? Thanks!

with best regards,
JC
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