TV RGB mod thread

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MarkOZLAD
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

boogiemanspud wrote:
MarkOZLAD wrote:
That's a great help. I'm goint to look over that service manual and start making a shopping list for the components I'll need that I don't already have. When I saw Cr Cb Y on the board, it made me quite happy. Hopefully between this new service manual and looking what's on the board I'll be able to figure out the components. This is the most major electronics thing I've done yet, a lot of fun but I'm sure I'll be scratching my head while piecing it together. :D
I completed my YCbCr and SVideo mod yesterday. It’s definitely doable. Does require multiple changes to the service menu as well as the component changes.

Drop me a PM if you have questions.
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Seikenfreak
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Seikenfreak »

Alright well, unfortunately, the 1600/270 resistor combo didn't appear to do anything. Good news is I figured I'd dip into the service menu and see if I could adjust the color brightness without blowing out the whole image, which is what all the normal brightness and Screen adjustments were doing. Came across "RGB Cont", whatever that is because the service manual doesn't define it and I can't find anything via google, but I was able to roughly double it from 23 to 42 and that appears to have worked. I think maybe I'm seeing some slight odd color stuff around the OSD graphics but it's fine.

So this is basically the Toshiba 20AF41 circuit as it stands. It should be the same for the 24AF42. I didn't change the RGB resistor values because it didn't appear to have any effect, so I'll assume it would've been fine with the 4700/910 combination. Also through my experimentation with the diode and resistor issue on the Blanking line, I found that not having the diode does indeed cause some slightly weird or delayed OSD graphics. Not sure how to explain what it looks like it's doing, but just know having the diode there serves the two purposes. Obviously, it looks like crap via pictures. I don't know how I could take better ones.

Now if only I could get the 24" TV to power on, I'd be able to do some comparisons. Before RGB mod, then without the 1.5uF caps, then with them. Thanks for the help MarkOZLAD and others. Now that this one is settled I think I can finally wire it and close it up for good. I'll put some additional pics in a spoiler of the wiring job if anyone needs ideas.

Image

Image
Spoiler
First pic is the SCART to TV connector setup. I did not use shielded cable anywhere inside the TV. I didn't before and didn't have an noticeable issues, so I didn't this time and it gave me a chance to try out using ribbon cable.
I actually used the three ground pins on the SCART connector intended for wire shielding for grounding the RGB 75 ohm termination resistors and then tied those three pins to the main grounding pin. I opted to use these "J-Tag" ribbon cable connectors, these are 10 pin, but you only need 8 pins for this setup. I suppose you have two additional spots for wires if you needed something more.

Image

This is the back of the little prototyping board. It contains all three RGB inline resistors (910 ohm on the diagram) and the diode on the blanking line.

Image

Bottom of the main TV board. This pic shouldn't necessarily be used as reference for soldering locations! This is a bit more messy than it needs to be, due to things going poorly during the previous mod work. So ignore the two small heatshrinked wires jumping across. Only issue I had this time were removing the jumper wires to insert the OSD RGB diodes. They hook the wires around which made it very difficult to get all the solder out. I only had one of the pads lift on me, but in retrospect this probably could've been avoided by using my hot air station or approaching the problem with the iron in a different way, which is how I believe I got the others out without lifting pads.

But yea, ribbon cable keeps it pretty straight forward and clean. There is very little room between the bottom of the board and the bottom plastic of the TV case which is another reason the ribbon cable worked well. Haven't noticed any interference issues yet.

Image

Finally, the board sitting in the TV. Because the board slides into a tray thing at the bottom, squeezing the ribbon cable through that hole is sort of a must, unless you were to route it in a complete opposite direction towards the power supply side of the board.

Image

This is the pic I took of the TV back when I originally did the mod with the OSD switch. With the muxing setup, that RGB/OSD switch is no longer there.

Image
Roboplodicus
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Roboplodicus »

I've begun considering RGB modding a Sony KV 20FS120 but I'm a total scrub at this. here is the service manual https://www.manualslib.com/manual/68348 ... fs120.html but I'm kind of confused about the whole thing, I think the jungle chips circuit diagram is on page 39 but I only see RGB out and no sync out but I don't know if that's even where I'd tap in with the RGB mod. Any help is deeply appreciated.
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Pikkon
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Pikkon »

That tv is a no go as it lacks the rgb inputs.
Roboplodicus
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Roboplodicus »

Pikkon wrote:That tv is a no go as it lacks the rgb inputs.
Well I suppose that it makes me feel slightly better for not having found them in the schematics that they weren't there that's a bummer though. What about the KV 13FS110? https://www.manualslib.com/manual/15961 ... fs100.html Its a pretty similar model that would be a bummer because those are my only two 15khz CRTs haha I looked at the schematics and I couldn't find anything for that one either its definitely possible that I missed something though.

Edit: The schematics of the Jungle chip is the relevant info right? I'd be seeing RGB going into it? Would I also see sync going into it next to the RGB pins?
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Pikkon
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Pikkon »

Unfortunately the KV-13FS110 shares the same jungle with the KV-20FS120.

You could get a scart to component and that would look great or just be on the look out for another crt.
Roboplodicus
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Roboplodicus »

Pikkon wrote:Unfortunately the KV-13FS110 shares the same jungle with the KV-20FS120.

You could get a scart to component and that would look great or just be on the look out for another crt.
Ok I thought it looked like the same chip. I actually tried out the ShinyBow Scart to Component but I didn't like the color balance it outputted, though it was nice and bright and sharp, I know there are a couple more scart to component options available, I might try another one.
xodaraP
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by xodaraP »

If you can find a good one let me know. I've tried building several of the converters I've found online that work for other people, but haven't successfully got one to work yet :( and the off the shelf options are generally fairly average.
Roboplodicus
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Roboplodicus »

xodaraP wrote:If you can find a good one let me know. I've tried building several of the converters I've found online that work for other people, but haven't successfully got one to work yet :( and the off the shelf options are generally fairly average.
I just ordered the Retrotek scart to component converter on ebay ill report back how i like it its aupposed to arrive this monday. I had heard good things about the shinybow and its probably a decent option for someone not picky about color balanc. It has audio breakout and the case is metal with holes for easy mounting. Which converters have you tried btw?
Roboplodicus
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Roboplodicus »

A KV 27FS200 would in fact by RGB moddable correct? https://www.manualslib.com/download/696 ... fs100.html
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Pikkon
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Pikkon »

That one will work great,the sony I modded is a kv-32fs100 so it will have a very nice picture once the mod is complete.

Pin 40 is blanking.
Lebeauluc
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Lebeauluc »

In December 2017, I rgb modded my Toshiba 20AF41C. Everything was performing great but lately, I am having color issue. If I power on the TV, it seems like that a yellow filter is being applied to the screen. In order to resolve the issue I have to let the TV warm for 10 to 15 minutes before It vanished and switch back to its normal color. If I am using the stock YPbPr or Composite video, there is no problem. It is only related to RGB.

Anyone ever encounter that problem? I am being honest I am too lazy to read all the thread hoping that someone already mention that issue. Could It be related to phosphor dying in the tube? A failing capacitor? I double checked all my solder joints to discard any bad soldering issue.
Seikenfreak
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Seikenfreak »

Lebeauluc wrote:In December 2017, I rgb modded my Toshiba 20AF41C. Everything was performing great but lately, I am having color issue. If I power on the TV, it seems like that a yellow filter is being applied to the screen. In order to resolve the issue I have to let the TV warm for 10 to 15 minutes before It vanished and switch back to its normal color. If I am using the stock YPbPr or Composite video, there is no problem. It is only related to RGB.

Anyone ever encounter that problem? I am being honest I am too lazy to read all the thread hoping that someone already mention that issue. Could It be related to phosphor dying in the tube? A failing capacitor? I double checked all my solder joints to discard any bad soldering issue.
Hmm. Same TV I'm running and I can't say I've seen anything like that. Are you using it a lot? Moving it around? Did you do the 5v switch or the muxing setup? Did you mess around in the service menu settings prior to this showing up?
Lebeauluc
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Lebeauluc »

Seikenfreak wrote:
Lebeauluc wrote:In December 2017, I rgb modded my Toshiba 20AF41C. Everything was performing great but lately, I am having color issue. If I power on the TV, it seems like that a yellow filter is being applied to the screen. In order to resolve the issue I have to let the TV warm for 10 to 15 minutes before It vanished and switch back to its normal color. If I am using the stock YPbPr or Composite video, there is no problem. It is only related to RGB.

Anyone ever encounter that problem? I am being honest I am too lazy to read all the thread hoping that someone already mention that issue. Could It be related to phosphor dying in the tube? A failing capacitor? I double checked all my solder joints to discard any bad soldering issue.
Hmm. Same TV I'm running and I can't say I've seen anything like that. Are you using it a lot? Moving it around? Did you do the 5v switch or the muxing setup? Did you mess around in the service menu settings prior to this showing up?
Perhaps no more than one or twice a week. No moving, It hasn't been move since. The simple 5V switch, muxing setup was pretty unheard of back then. The only adjustment I did in the service menu was correcting the horizontal swiching It was suffering from.
Seikenfreak
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Seikenfreak »

Lebeauluc wrote: Perhaps no more than one or twice a week. No moving, It hasn't been move since. The simple 5V switch, muxing setup was pretty unheard of back then. The only adjustment I did in the service menu was correcting the horizontal swiching It was suffering from.
If you have the switch on the OSD side and use one of the factory inputs with the cold TV, do just the OSD graphics themselves appear yellow, is it the whole image, or does everything look fine before warming up except when you switch to RGB?
MarkOZLAD
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

Roboplodicus wrote:A KV 27FS200 would in fact by RGB moddable correct? https://www.manualslib.com/download/696 ... fs100.html
Someone else asked me about modding a BA5D Chassis. I am part way through formulating a procedure to mod this set with the mux method in as simple as possible method. Being in Australia I have no access to this set so it would be great if someone could take detailed photos and check connectivity for me. In return I’ll come up with a standard procedure for OSD/Ext Rgb Mux on this chassis.
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MarkOZLAD
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

I’m currently interested to find out if these points are a set of jumpers on the RGB lines from the micom to jungle.

Image
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Einzelherz
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Einzelherz »

Roboplodicus wrote:
Pikkon wrote:Unfortunately the KV-13FS110 shares the same jungle with the KV-20FS120.

You could get a scart to component and that would look great or just be on the look out for another crt.
Ok I thought it looked like the same chip. I actually tried out the ShinyBow Scart to Component but I didn't like the color balance it outputted, though it was nice and bright and sharp, I know there are a couple more scart to component options available, I might try another one.
I've compared my shinybow as directly as possible and saw almost no difference from the converted RGB to original component with a colorimeter. If you don't like the color balance, it's probably the TV.
Seikenfreak
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Seikenfreak »

Got a question about something slightly off the beaten path here.

My goal: Split the output from a console into two outputs. This isn't a new idea, various other people have already been asking about it for the same reason I am. Streaming. The difference here is that I want to build it into the TV.

So I've been looking up SCART/RGB splitters and it's a bit of a mess. Mainly, I'm not looking to have a bank of SCART sockets, a Matrix switch, or anything crazy like that. Just split one output into two. The original idea in my head was to have a SCART output on the TV like an RGB passthrough. It sounds like a number of PVMs have this.

If one were to design a circuit, something that could be put on a small board inside the TV, what would that look like? Surely, it can't be that complicated right? Famous last words. But it sounds like it's just a simple amplification thing no? I don't know anything about designing circuits.
Roboplodicus
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Roboplodicus »

Seikenfreak wrote:Got a question about something slightly off the beaten path here.

My goal: Split the output from a console into two outputs. This isn't a new idea, various other people have already been asking about it for the same reason I am. Streaming. The difference here is that I want to build it into the TV.
Most CRT broadcast monitors have outputs for the signal they are receiving already built into them. They are also generally great looking screens, and they are built to last a lifetime of constant use. What is your budget for this project? Because atleast in my area I can get a sony 20m2u (a really decent 20" screen) for between 100 and 200 dollars right off the bat or if you are a little patient you could probably get one for 50 dollars or maybe even less if you are willing to email around to different video production studios alot of them are just looking to get rid of them at this point.
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Roboplodicus »

I also had a question does anybody know if the Sony KV-20V80 is RGB moddable I coudn't find a service manual for it, I'm wondering if it used the same jungle chip as some of the models in the same line? My friend owns one of these and it looks fantastic and I just saw one posted in my area on CL.
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buttersoft
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by buttersoft »

Seikenfreak wrote: If one were to design a circuit, something that could be put on a small board inside the TV, what would that look like? Surely, it can't be that complicated right? Famous last words. But it sounds like it's just a simple amplification thing no? I don't know anything about designing circuits.
Google the datasheets for the THS7314 and THS7316. They show a two-way splitter circuit in the example schematics. Just remember that you might need to remove the filter caps between the power rail and ground, if you get noise issues. You could either solder something simply, or even just breadboard out a circuit to test.
MarkOZLAD
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

Roboplodicus wrote:I also had a question does anybody know if the Sony KV-20V80 is RGB moddable I coudn't find a service manual for it, I'm wondering if it used the same jungle chip as some of the models in the same line? My friend owns one of these and it looks fantastic and I just saw one posted in my area on CL.
Elektrotanya have the service manual. Can be easily modded using the OSD/External RGB Mux method.
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Seikenfreak
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Seikenfreak »

buttersoft wrote:Google the datasheets for the THS7314 and THS7316. They show a two-way splitter circuit in the example schematics. Just remember that you might need to remove the filter caps between the power rail and ground, if you get noise issues. You could either solder something simply, or even just breadboard out a circuit to test.
Awesome. Seemed a little confusing at first til I realized it was handling AC on that two output diagram. Aside from that though, I've basically got no idea what I'm doing in terms of building a circuit so the more I look at the chip and try to comprehend how this would work, I'm left with nothing but questions. It's over my head so I guess I won't bother with it for now. Appreciate the info though and I'm going to save the datasheet.
Roboplodicus wrote:Most CRT broadcast monitors have outputs for the signal they are receiving already built into them. They are also generally great looking screens, and they are built to last a lifetime of constant use. What is your budget for this project? Because atleast in my area I can get a sony 20m2u (a really decent 20" screen) for between 100 and 200 dollars right off the bat or if you are a little patient you could probably get one for 50 dollars or maybe even less if you are willing to email around to different video production studios alot of them are just looking to get rid of them at this point.
Eh it's complicated. I said it back when I originally found this whole TV RGB mod thing, but this 20" Toshiba is the TV I had back in 2001 ish. My first "nice" TV and I remember going to Best Buy and getting it (damaged, bringing it down to $200.) I still love the way it looks compared to most other CRT chassis. Second, the project aspect of it and doing something a little more unique is half the enjoyment I get out of it. It gives me a chance to learn and hone my electrical and fabrication skills. I had some slightly more ambitious ideas for the 24" but that was put on hold when it died for no apparent reason before I could work on it. Third, PVM/BVMs seem absurdly expensive. My friend has a 20" PVM that he got like 10 years ago for $50.. Nowadays? Seems you're lucky to find anything less than $300 that isn't junk. I also don't mess around, and if I were to try and get one, it would probably have to be pretty good and have features I'd want, which most likely puts it in the $500+ range if you could even find one. People are starting to put regular, unmodified CRTs on craigslist for $100+ with "Retro Gaming" in the title etc. That same friend with the PVM seems like he wants me to put together an RGB modded set for him. And I guess fourth, while the screens seem nice on PVMs, they don't look hundreds-of-dollars-over-a-regular-CRT nice IMO. To me the real value add in a PVM or BVM is in its robust feature set, servicing, and compatibility.

Also, I have no idea how or where to even begin about contacting production studios to get CRTs. Hard to imagine they aren't all gone already (especially around here in NJ/NY), and I assume you'd have to ask for something specific? In which case, why wouldn't they say "Hmmm.. this person is asking for X model.. Let me see if its worth somethi.. Holy crap its $1000 on ebay! *ahem* Nope we don't have any of those laying around. Sorry." and proceed to sell them themselves. If you don't ask for something specific.. do you just ask if you can go rummage through their junk storage? I don't know. Seems impossible to me. I'm open to hearing how exactly people do it though. Maybe I'd try it myself.

Oh and I don't have the money to buy an expensive PVM now anyway.
Roboplodicus
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Roboplodicus »

Einzelherz wrote:
Roboplodicus wrote:I've compared my shinybow as directly as possible and saw almost no difference from the converted RGB to original component with a colorimeter. If you don't like the color balance, it's probably the TV.
I actually liked the color balance I was getting from my composite cable on my tv more than the color balance the tv displayed from the shinybow buuttttttttt...so I just got the retrotek scart to component converter in today and tried it out, this time I tried out another set of component cables and I think the issue I was having earlier with the shinybow was I was using low quality component cables *facepalm* because the retrotek looked pretty bad with those same cables but actually pretty decent with this other set I have...but now I'm curious how the decent component cables I have would look with the shinybow, because there was a definite difference between the pictures I got using the crappy cables with each transcoder. As in both transcoders looked bad with the shitty cables but bad in different ways. So here I am now contemplating whether I ought to reorder the shinybow...
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by viletim »

Seikenfreak wrote:Got a question about something slightly off the beaten path here.

My goal: Split the output from a console into two outputs. This isn't a new idea, various other people have already been asking about it for the same reason I am. Streaming. The difference here is that I want to build it into the TV.

So I've been looking up SCART/RGB splitters and it's a bit of a mess. Mainly, I'm not looking to have a bank of SCART sockets, a Matrix switch, or anything crazy like that. Just split one output into two. The original idea in my head was to have a SCART output on the TV like an RGB passthrough. It sounds like a number of PVMs have this.

If one were to design a circuit, something that could be put on a small board inside the TV, what would that look like? Surely, it can't be that complicated right? Famous last words. But it sounds like it's just a simple amplification thing no? I don't know anything about designing circuits.
The simplest way to achieve this is to connect the RGB signals to both of your TVs/scalers/whatever in a daisy chain fashion and disconnect the 75 ohm termination resistors from the device in the middle. This is how a lot of broadcast monitors did it for composite video. It should work OK for RGB too provided your cables are good quality and not too long.
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cargo
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by cargo »

Hi guys. I finally took the plunge and attempted the switch mod on my Sony KV-27S22 with mixed results. This is a Trinitron without the S-Video port. Uses a CXA2025AS jungle chip. Here are some pictures (click for bigger size):

Image Image Image

Image Image

This is the diagram I made to help me sort out the cabling (work in progess) and board schematics from the service manual:
Image Image


Instead of lifting pins I removed SMD capacitors C363, C364 and C365 and soldered wires on the appropriate empty solder pads for my RGB signals. These lines have a 0.1uf capacitor each (which you can see in one of the photos set on a square breadboard). For the blanking pin I removed SMD resistor R1354 and soldered it to pin 17 on the jungle chip.

On the OSD chip I take the RGB and blanking signals from that side but I also use pins 47 and 49 for 5V and ground. I don't have pictures for it but next to my scart adapter I use two resistors to lower the 5V to the 3V signal the jungle chip is expecting. I use pin 49 for ground in my circuit. The photos don't quite show it but I am getting a darker image with a buzzing sound on the audio. Probably a ground issue? I am also terminating the RGB signal coming from the consoles with 75ohm resistors. Even with the color issues the image itself looks really sharp and neat.

Any recommendations? Does it matter if I place the 0.1uf caps closer to the jungle chip or the scart connector?
Last edited by cargo on Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:45 pm, edited 42 times in total.
MarkOZLAD
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

Can you put up a test pattern, perhaps the colour bars from the 240P test suite? It is possible you are just missing one of the colours (most likely green) due to a short or bad connection.

A shame you chose to do an OSD snip on this TV, it would've been an interesting one to attempt the mux method on.
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cargo
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by cargo »

Thanks for the reply MarkOZLAD. I didn't do the mux approach because it looked too complicated for me. I would have needed a lot of help and didn't want to impose. I could still try it though.

Here are some pics from the 240p test suite:
Image Image
Image Image Image
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Bratwurst
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Bratwurst »

cyborc wrote:Grabbed a TV from my parents. Toshiba 32A33. Looks really good with component but I want to try RGB on it.

The Jungle ( TA1310N ) has both an OSD rgb AND an RGB input! The RGB input on the tv is "disabled" with a capacitor to ground.

I assume I can just remove those caps and insert my rgb signal there, and send the proper voltage to pin6 for blanking, but will the OSD show up?

Has anyone successfully modded a tv with this jungle?
I happen to have this exact same TV and was able to RGB mod it while retaining OSD function today. Remove RR07, CR01, CR02 and CR03, these are tying pins 3 through 6 to ground.

You will want to interrupt the jumper wire that connects pin 6 of the TA1310N jungle to pin 21 of the QA01 microprocessor, making sure there is nothing else on the line going to pin 6. I wired it so the original circuit going to QA01 could be restored with a SPDT switch, including a 1k ohm resistor to ground (which was RR07.) The other end of the switch you want to be 3 volts, I got it by tapping the 7805 and feeding 5V through 20k ohm and 30k ohm resistors in series to ground, and getting 3V in the middle of the resistors. If you refer to page 92 of the TA1310N datasheet there is an example circuit that shows a similar configuration for a three-way switch between RGB (2.1V and up), half-tone (partially transparent OSD? that triggers below 2V) and totally grounded for the other inputs like composite/s-vid/component.

Feed your RGB lines to pins 3-5, making sure you have each line tied to ground with 75 ohms and going through a 104 cap before entering the jungle. Then you just feed 3 volts to pin 6 and that's it. OSD still works. I'm /very/ happy with this set. I'll post pictures later.
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