Castlevania Miscellanies

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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Jonny2x4
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Jonny2x4 »

I'm just glad that Simon's Visual Kei phase is over now. There was a time when the Chronicles version was the only one they were using for everything.
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Sumez
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Sumez »

What is "everything"? I don't remember seeing it since that game, but then again I really don't care about video game stuff outside of video games.
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Vanguard
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Vanguard »

Alright so I've got X68000 running now, with proper HP values (thanks!) and everything. Spent a long time trying to figure out how to avoid an unresponsive black screen with some music playing. Turns out it was a loading screen all along and I just had to wait. Anyway, now I've got a new problem: in level 2, most of the times when I whip the lion statue to start the raft ride, the raft vanishes causing an immediate and unavoidable death. Anyone run into that before? Any idea how to prevent that? I'm using this newfangled RetroArch business with the Sharp X68000 core and I have no idea what I'm doing with any of it.
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Re: more Castlevania Mischief

Post by NYN »

Sumez wrote: We are not playing the role of high brow video game critics trying to draw a full image of the quality of the game. Saying I prefer CV3 to CV1 is entirely a question of how much I enjoy playing each game, and when CV3 gives me an option of playing it in a way that I highly enjoy, I don't think the other path is relevant.
I get it.
It's just, coming up with The Neutered Generation through SEGA schoolmates, and befogged with The Symphony and her offsprings later, I made a conscious effort to seek out the Vania foundation. First Chronicles on release, then IV some 10 years ago. About 2 years back I finally played the original NES for the first time and from the very first stage I was awe-struck how effortlessy tight it feels ( beeing familiar with the first stage through New Gen which lifted the opening from it ). Omitting Simon's Quest till now I checked out III and... No. Not impressed. Altough I can now recognize how many ideas IV took from it.

That Smash X Castlevania hommage indeed is sweet. Bloody tears.

Has the hcg101 book on the series been discussed here? Any relevance to it?
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Sumez
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Sumez »

Ronyn wrote: I checked out III and... No. Not impressed. Altough I can now recognize how many ideas IV took from it.
That's a funny comparison. I mean yeah, they share the approach of "going to the castle" before actually playing stages that take place there, but I think that's an obvious direction to take the series after the first game, and almost every game except SOTN and its offspring had their own take on how to do that.

But the typical relation would be CV1. This is the first time I've seen anyone not treat CV1 and CV3 as basically two sides of the same coin. Most people prefer either one or the other, but it's usually inferred the if you like one, you'll like them both.
As we discussed, the issues CV3 has, come several stages in, and only if you take a specific route. Right from the beginning of the game over the first few stages, it's hard for me to see Castlevania 3 as anything other than "Fuck yeah, this is Castlevania all over again!". Everything CV1 did well, is repeated well in this part of the game.
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Post by NYN »

By took from it I mean things like that fuzzy enemy that moves around a platform, the two-headed hydra boss, the aqueduct, the crumbling bridge section, rotating platforms on contact, lotta scrolling-stairs sections. Straight from it. Playing that out of release-sequence gives me funny ideas about their connection. Like if III had all the stages in a row and no selecting, no A and B side, one whole chunk, would some bitch and moan over it as some do over IV? BIL made a fair point about the boiling point. Aah, never mind me. Just rumbling.

I can say something nice about III, too: further in, the keep I think, that purple block bit is aesthetically gorgeous. There you have it.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Obscura »

Vanguard wrote:Alright so I've got X68000 running now, with proper HP values (thanks!) and everything. Spent a long time trying to figure out how to avoid an unresponsive black screen with some music playing. Turns out it was a loading screen all along and I just had to wait. Anyway, now I've got a new problem: in level 2, most of the times when I whip the lion statue to start the raft ride, the raft vanishes causing an immediate and unavoidable death. Anyone run into that before? Any idea how to prevent that? I'm using this newfangled RetroArch business with the Sharp X68000 core and I have no idea what I'm doing with any of it.
Don't use RetroArch. That section has been buggy in lots of emulators for years, and it sounds like RetroArch is one of them.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Jonny2x4 »

Sumez wrote:What is "everything"? I don't remember seeing it since that game, but then again I really don't care about video game stuff outside of video games.
I could've sworn Visual Kei Simon appeared in many games, but looking it up on the Castlevania Wiki, it seems he only returned in an obscure Smash Bros. clone featuring Hudson and Takara characters alongside Konami's, and some Track 'n Field sequel on the Nintendo DS. Not even Ayami Kojima herself drew Visual Kei Simon after Chronicles.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Sumez »

Well, there's Castlevania Judgment of course. I keep forgetting that exists.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by geosnow »

I really do not like the arcade version. I even prefer the N64 ones to that.

And I love CoM, OoE, 1-4, Bloodlines, X, actually all 2Ds. :mrgreen:
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Stevens »

Anyone play any of the CV rom hacks?
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Vanguard
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Vanguard »

I finished credit feeding through a round of the original ADX68K.

The most dangerous enemies in stages tend to be small pests (bats, medusa heads, fleamen, dolls). It probably has the biggest enemy roster of any classicvania, but the majority are irrelevant. Dracula's stage is the exception, being mostly about heavier enemies that block, dodge, and try to out-space you. It feels like it's from a different (and better) game.

It's also the most trap-heavy of the classicvanias. Some of it works well, some doesn't. It's not what I play these games for, but if you prefer platforming over combat you'll probably really like this one.

Boss fights are pretty solid. The first three bosses are pretty lame, but they usually are. Medusa is a spacing-based duel that works really well. The werewolf is great, she's explosively quick and feels very dangerous. Mirror Belmont is more of a puzzle than a conventional fight. I found that he wasn't able to copy the healing herb leading to a very easy win. Death mostly does the usual, but that's fine. Dracula is a worse version of his CV1 first form and a better version of the second form - a net loss but still not a bad fight.

Overall I'd rate it about as good as Dracula's Curse.
Sumez wrote:But the typical relation would be CV1. This is the first time I've seen anyone not treat CV1 and CV3 as basically two sides of the same coin. Most people prefer either one or the other, but it's usually inferred the if you like one, you'll like them both.
As we discussed, the issues CV3 has, come several stages in, and only if you take a specific route. Right from the beginning of the game over the first few stages, it's hard for me to see Castlevania 3 as anything other than "Fuck yeah, this is Castlevania all over again!". Everything CV1 did well, is repeated well in this part of the game.
For me the two areas where Dracula's Curse loses most to Castlevania are pacing and boss fights.

Castlevania is a very brisk game. It's short, dense, aggressive, and doesn't like to repeat itself. Dracula's Curse is much longer, has slow autoscroller sections, is far more willing to repeat the same idea (you fight the hammer cyclops like three times in the upper route and he wasn't a good boss to begin with) and I feel like the design is a bit more sparse in general. Also character switching takes way too damn long.

As for bosses, Death and Dracula are pretty good, the rest of the upper route is mediocre at best. Three out of six is much better than two out of what, a dozen? At least the sidekick characters give you new ways to speedkill them.
Obscura wrote:Don't use RetroArch. That section has been buggy in lots of emulators for years, and it sounds like RetroArch is one of them.
Any of y'all know a good alternative? I heard that X68K stuff is (was?) supported in MAME but haven't had any luck getting that to work.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

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Stevens wrote:Anyone play any of the CV rom hacks?
Only Dracula Densetsu II with the walk speed hack, if that counts. :wink: Which, unless you've a kink for a original code (edit: LIKE ME) is how everyone should play it really. Just about tolerable without, but quite enjoyable with, and the OST's bridging of the gravelly to the affectingly melodic is a gem among gems.

Trad CV control bumblers and their shitty memes. I'd dropkick them into a woodchipper. My hatred for their kind is eternal. Image Are you somewhere out there, Drum? If you weren't my homie I'd elbow drop your gravestone from the top rope for ever putting Alisia Dragoon's rickety ass over Bloodlines. Although to be fair Alisia does have a most alluring ass. She should put some Berumondo hotpants on though, with all the semi-dodgeable bullets flying around her game. Good thing she can take way more of a beating than most CV characters thanks to her big lifebar!
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by BrianC »

Stevens wrote:Anyone play any of the CV rom hacks?
I only played a hack to make Vs. Castlevania playable on NES and the GB CV speed hacks. I didn't like the hack of Castlevania Adventure as much as the one for Belmont's Revenge. The former doesn't adjust the jump length to compensate for the extra speed and makes it too easy to jump too far forward. It also changes some of the graphics for the worse, removing the cross that was present in the EU Konami GB Collection version of Castlevania Adventure and inferior looking graphics for chicken legs and money bags instead of hearts and coins.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Vanguard »

I ran through Castlevania 3 yesterday to refresh my memory and make sure I wasn't talking too much bullshit about it. The density problem is nowhere near as bad as I had remembered. The only level that's really bad about it on the upper path is the optional clock tower. Otherwise there are a few rooms that exist mostly for scenery but they only last a few seconds each and aren't a serious issue at all.

The bosses really are lame though. The skeleton knight is a nonentity. The hammer cyclops is boring but completely safe as long as you wait around a bit. The mummies are super easy. Against Medusa you mash attack and she dies. The demon is a big old damage sponge who harmlessly jumps around all day, and you have to fight the easy mummies and the easy cyclops right before him - what a waste of time. The water dragons are another waiting boss, only marginally more dangerous than the cyclops. Frankenstein's monster might be the third best boss on the upper path, but he's still pretty tame. Death is a much easier version of his CV1 fight followed up by a pointless second form. The doppelganger is dangerous, but winning is almost entirely a matter of knowing one of the AI exploits. I like Dracula well enough, none of his three forms are too dangerous on their own, but together they form a nice endurance run.

So yeah, two good bosses in the upper path and even then you have to lower your standards of "good" well below what Castlevania 1 offers.

This might be the stereotypical CVIII scrub complaint, but I really dislike what they did with the stairs. Castlevania 1 avoids sending you against anything dangerous while you're climbing staircases. They knew how awkward it is to try to fight there. Dracula's Curse does the opposite and puts some of its hardest obstacles on staircases.

I usually stop by the clock tower to pick up Grant, but this time I skipped him to see if cutting that stage helps the game's pacing - it really does. I think I had only used Sypha once before, and I seriously underestimated her. She's badass. Her melee attack is actually pretty useful with good speed and a generous hitbox balancing out its low power, a sort of halfway point between Trevor's whip and Grant's knife. The flame spell and ice spell are both really nice and the homing orbs are outright broken. She's really good for recovering from deaths since she doesn't need any weapon upgrades or IIs and IIIs. Just find a replacement subweapon and she's back online. I want to ditch Trevor and do a Grant + Sypha playthrough.

Alucard's the only loser among the support characters though I still consider him a necessity on the lower path since he can skip that godawful falling block section.

After finishing I decided to try credit feeding through the second loop. Overall it wasn't as big of a difficulty spike as I expected. Most enemy upgrades are minor, like zombies getting an extra hit point or spear knights gaining some more health and attack range. Most of the time the biggest difference comes from the faster bat respawns. The one really drastic change is that the medusa heads are replaced with hellish flying skulls. What a nightmare. I heard they were bad but had no idea they'd be that bad. Give me lyers any day over those things. The only saving grace is that they don't show up very often.

Anyway, it's definitely a good game but way too drawn-out and inconsistent to beat the original.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Strider77 »

Alisia Dragoon's rickety ass over Bloodlines.
Who put Alisia over Bloodlines?
Damn Tim, you know there are quite a few Americans out there who still lives in tents due to this shitty economy, and you're dropping loads on a single game which only last 20 min. Do you think it's fair? How much did you spend this time?
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Obscura »

Vanguard wrote:Any of y'all know a good alternative? I heard that X68K stuff is (was?) supported in MAME but haven't had any luck getting that to work.
XM6 TypeG. Some experimentation will be necessary since it's only available in Japanese, but it does run Castlevania X68K well.

Alternatively, get ePSXe and Castlevania Chronicles. Not a perfect port, but "good enough", and won't make you hassle with Japanese-only emulators.
As for bosses, Death and Dracula are pretty good, the rest of the upper route is mediocre at best. Three out of six is much better than two out of what, a dozen? At least the sidekick characters give you new ways to speedkill them.
No way, the twin water serpents are great!
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Sumez »

Vanguard wrote: So yeah, two good bosses in the upper path and even then you have to lower your standards of "good" well below what Castlevania 1 offers.
I love CV1, but do you really think its boss fights are that much more memorable? I never considered them its strongest suit, by a long shot.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Vanguard »

Obscura wrote:XM6 TypeG. Some experimentation will be necessary since it's only available in Japanese, but it does run Castlevania X68K well.

Alternatively, get ePSXe and Castlevania Chronicles. Not a perfect port, but "good enough", and won't make you hassle with Japanese-only emulators.
Thanks! I'll see if I can figure that out.
Obscura wrote:No way, the twin water serpents are great!
They're alright. If you approach them defensively they can't touch you unless both heads do low shots on the same platform at the same time. Depending on your loadout you might also spend a lot of the fight waiting for a good chance to attack. One of CV3's better fights but nothing special.
Sumez wrote:I love CV1, but do you really think its boss fights are that much more memorable? I never considered them its strongest suit, by a long shot.
Sure. The giant bat, medusa, and the mummies are all freebies, but Frankenstein's monster, Death, and Dracula are some of the most memorable bosses on the NES. Frankenstein and Death can be cheesed with holy water or crosses, which is a legitimate flaw, but it's not like you can't do things that are just as bad to the CV3 bosses. Frankenstein and Death's fights are both juggling acts, but they feel totally distinct from each other and (subweapon cheese aside) victory never feels like a sure thing. I don't think stage 5 would really work if Death wasn't dangerous. The enemies there shouldn't be strong enough to take you down on their own. The whole stage, keeping your health up, finding the right subweapon, conserving your hearts, all of that is only worth taking seriously because Death is waiting at the end. Dracula's first form is a pure reflex test, but he's plenty dangerous and that's compounded by the fact that it's easy to lose a bunch of health to the fleamen and eagles from earlier. Demon Dracula's pretty easy and wouldn't be able to stand as his own boss, but he's a good enough threat for when you're running on fumes. I do like that Demon Dracula forces you to choose between using the cross for an easier first form and using holy water to shut the second form down entirely.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Sir Ilpalazzo »

Wholeheartedly agree on the first Castlevania having excellent bosses (if you overlook the unfortunate holy water imbalance). The vampire bat is fine enough for a first boss, and the last three are all fantastic - I think only Medusa and the mummies are totally uninteresting. I might go so far as to say that this is a hallmark of the series; I can't name many action-platformers that have as consistently good bosses as the first Castlevania, the X68000 game, and Rondo of Blood. Out of the notably good Castlevania games, the only one with weaker bosses than CV3 is 4, which is a little damning.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by BIL »

On the subject of CVIII's multiple characters, I think special mention should go to Grant NES versus FC. His FC incarnation is commonly regarded as overpowered, but he just makes me overtired. Throwing knife is utter tedium. Safe, slow, non-piercing and non-upgradeable. A weapon for wieners. Only subweapon is Axe, capped at x2. I just use Sypha in that version and melt fuckers' faces off / bop them with my wooden spoon.

NES Grant, however, exemplifies the high-risk/high-yield precision treachery I enjoy. Dagger of Shanking is the shortest-ranged but swiftest melee killer in the game - flurry brings heavies crashing down, while piercing clean through their projectiles. Rush down Axe Armour and jam it in his spine. Knife sword-wielding Boney-kun while he's in startup. Hop over Dullahan's riposte and... tbh that's not very efficient since he outranges you and dies in one shot anyway. If the character switching wasn't an utter slog I'd just whip out (bahaha!) Trevor. HOWEVER this lack of reach makes Grant's x3 axe and dagger compelling backups for destruction at a distance. I don't mean sniping, I mean shredding to ribbons in a hail of fire. Fly in the ointment is, of course, he'll get swatted like a fucking mosquito if you're not careful, but that is what his extra-low crouch, Contra air control and wall/ceiling run are for.

The game could've starred him alone and I'd be fine with it. Like Bloodlines, an interesting case of the series applying subtle temperings ala Ninja Gaiden without losing a hint of its identity.
Vanguard wrote:Give me lyers any day over those things.
Gigahardcore NES sidescroller hell reference. :mrgreen:

Spoiler
Image


I would indeed sooner see those scheissevogels with their relentless but stable sine+ attack, than the nightmarishly erratic "crackhead EKG" Loop 2 skulls. Which I head(bwaaa!)canon to be Medusas tortured of all sanity, or groove, or skin. Image Prepare the patient's scalp / To peel away :shock:
Strider77 wrote:Who put Alisia over Bloodlines?
Absent friend, long since chastened for the outrage via internet dance battle. Image
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by FinalBaton »

I too think CV1's last 3 bosses are great.

Vanguard wrote:The whole stage, keeping your health up, finding the right subweapon, conserving your hearts, all of that is only worth taking seriously because Death is waiting at the end. Dracula's first form is a pure reflex test, but he's plenty dangerous and that's compounded by the fact that it's easy to lose a bunch of health to the fleamen and eagles from earlier. Demon Dracula's pretty easy and wouldn't be able to stand as his own boss, but he's a good enough threat for when you're running on fumes. I do like that Demon Dracula forces you to choose between using the cross for an easier first form and using holy water to shut the second form down entirely.
Very well said Vanguard
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by BIL »

Franky and Death are classic tests of control and strategy - some of the most organic, volatile showdowns I've enjoyed across the whole R2RKMF genre. Particularly if they're fought with x1 HW/Cross/Axe (or x3 dagger, which feels a bit overmatched at x1 due to all the flak from Igor/sickles). They can be nuked far too easily with x3 HW/Cross, and without much more difficulty by x3 Axe, but I know exactly what it is I'm dodging when I resort to that.

Sometimes I wonder if the x3 boss cheese should've been hardcoded out. I wouldn't mind either way. It's one thing to reward good play with a stronger hand, but not an outright skip. Still, I'm happy enough to self-regulate.

DORAKYURA-SAMA mk1 body check is classic (especially his brutal crossup game). The ultimate kick in the nads to the "clumsy control" cunts. If the response was anything less than instant (sup Alisia Dragoon), it'd be an utter lottery. Instead, it's a lack of reaction speed and focus that'll kill scrubs dead. Sharpen up. :cool:

As for mk2... sometimes I wish the following had happened instead. Image
Spoiler
Move Dracula mk2 to st5 (omg! it is GIGABAT, the result of the lab's dark research!), then install a holy water combo-proof Death as the last boss. ¦3

Dorakyura's head: "FUUUCK"

Berumondo: "At last, tis truly over. O Death, where is thy sting?"

Death: "GOT IT RIGHT HERE YOU HOTPANTS MOTHERFUCKER"

*REAPER W/ BURNING RED EYES EXPLODES THROUGH WINDOW AS THE KEEP DERANGES UNDER DIMENSION-WARPING POWER, CONVENIENTLY REPLICATING ST5's BOSS ROOM*

Berumondo: "What!!!"

Death: "hw cheese banned btw"

Berumondo: "shit is for pussies anyway tbh"

Death & Bermumondo: "LMAO!"
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by FinalBaton »

BIL wrote:If the response was anything less than instant (sup Alisia Dragoon), it'd be an utter lottery. Instead, it's a lack of reaction speed and focus that'll kill scrubs dead. Sharpen up. :cool:
word 8)
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Obscura »

Sir Ilpalazzo wrote: Out of the notably good Castlevania games, the only one with weaker bosses than CV3 is 4, which is a little damning.
Bloodlines. Bloodlines's bosses are mostly terrible; when a weaker version of CV3's Frankie is one of the top two bosses in the game, you know something is wrong.

Remember when we mocked CV4 Dracula for giving out free health in-between phases? Bloodlines's Death does that, but no one seems to complain...
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by BIL »

Death gives one health restore, while emceeing a boss rush (one on JP expert, the stage's only - zero in US). It's even a pretty amusing one, a veritable explosion of wallmeats. Then you fight him and the only thing he's looking to carve you is a brand new asshole. If he were busting out platters of cold cuts mid-fight there'd be a comparison with Kount Fried Chicken, who never kicked his debilitating poultry addiction even in the second loop. And incidentally, who I am an avid fanartist of!
Spoiler
Image
Spoiler
Image
The only bad Bloodlines boss comparable to CVIII's ambling clunkers is Bartley/Bathory/BATORI with her irritating hard damage limit. Even the lamest of the rest can be annihilated with such woodchipper violence (provided you have POW) it becomes hilarious (Franky is one of them). Quite a few are alright. I wouldn't call it a collection of great bosses, but then neither is the similarly rampant Ninja Gaiden (NES).

You can blow away lame CVIII bosses too if you know what you're doing and have the right character/weapons, ofc, but I find it more irksome in a relatively conservative game. There isn't the same rush of acing a fast-paced, POW-stealing stage with an exclamation point of a boss explosion.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Austin »

Obscura wrote:Remember when we mocked CV4 Dracula for giving out free health in-between phases? Bloodlines's Death does that, but no one seems to complain...
Not on Expert.

I mean, I'm just putting that out there for anyone that thinks the health refill at that fight is a massive sticking point.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Vanguard »

I got a one life clear in Castlevania 3. I'm surprised at how easy it was - I had thought of it as one of the hardest games in the series, and I had only played maybe five rounds of it up until a few days ago. The original gave me way more trouble than that. I've warmed up to it quite a bit after spending some time with it but there's still no way it can match Rondo, Bloodlines, or CV1.

I severely abused Sypha's homing orbs and it's still a bit of a rough run, but if anyone's interested I uploaded a replay here.
Obscura wrote:Bloodlines. Bloodlines's bosses are mostly terrible; when a weaker version of CV3's Frankie is one of the top two bosses in the game, you know something is wrong.
Huh, I always thought of Bloodlines's boss fights as mostly good, but looking through them one by one, there really are more misses than hits. Countess Bathory in particular might be the worst boss in the series. I'd still put them well above CV3's bosses based solely on the fact that Bloodlines boss battles tend to end quickly no matter what character or weapon you use.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by Squire Grooktook »

Bloodlines bosses are great, but due to their context:

You won't find the lethally dynamic rng footsies games in Bloodlines climaxes that you would in CV1 or x68k, but what you will find is a bunch of motherfuckers who are insanely fun to demolish and speedkill using your suite of POW enhanced weaponry, i-frame charge attacks, and battle specific tricks (corner trapping queen moth :kreygasm:). There are very, very few games where speedkilling bosses is half as fun as Bloodlines.

Yeah yeah shame about Bathory but the rest are just joyful to murder.
Sumez wrote: I love CV1, but do you really think its boss fights are that much more memorable? I never considered them its strongest suit, by a long shot.
Echoing Vanguard but taking it a step further: Frank, Death, and Dracula are literally among the greatest boss battles ever programmed in a video game.
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Re: Castlevania Miscellanies

Post by SuperDeadite »

I would advise using XM6 to emulate X68K Drac over the PS1 port. The PS1 port was a solid effort, but it's a recreation and has some issues. Hit-boxes are larger then they should be, and the original game runs in 31khz meaning the resolution had to be halved. It's playable with practice, but it's way harder then the original game. I can loop the real deal all day, but getting just a first loop clear on PS1 gets me sweating.
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