What does TATE really mean??
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doctorx0079
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What does TATE really mean??
Okay, so what do the words TATE and YOKO really mean?? Are they acronyms?? Should they be all-caps or not?? And how should those words be pronounced?? I mean is TATE pronounced like tah-tay or like Tater Tots??
Re: What does TATE really mean??
We've had a few threads about this, but: they're simply japanese words. "Tate" means "vertical" and "yoko" stands for "horizontal". I'm sure GaijinPunch or somebody else can come up with the kanji. Simple as that. Whether they're written in all-caps or not makes no difference. It's pronounced "tah-tay".doctorx0079 wrote:Okay, so what do the words TATE and YOKO really mean?? Are they acronyms?? Should they be all-caps or not?? And how should those words be pronounced?? I mean is TATE pronounced like tah-tay or like Tater Tots??
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BulletMagnet
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gameoverDude
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BulletMagnet, I found a name for this term:
Bullet Clearing
Bullet Clearing
It also happens whenever most screen-filling bombs are dropped, or when your ship is transitioning to another part of a stage, like, say, when you're firing your ships guns at full auto and the game stops you from firing to zoom off to the next stage, the bullets will do their "collision" animation when they collide with the ship or a solid object or just straight up disappear.What do you call it when all the bullets onscreen disappear for a few seconds after your ship is destroyed? This also seems to happen whenever you destroy a boss at the end of a stage.
The world would be a better place if there were less shooters and more dot-eaters.
Jesus' BE ATTITUDE FOR GAINS:
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3. Suffer for Righteous Desire
Jesus' BE ATTITUDE FOR GAINS:
1. Pure, Mournful, Humble Heart
2. Merciful Peacemaker
3. Suffer for Righteous Desire
I've been of the opinion for a few years now that TATE really means, "I'm too lazy to type or say 'vertical' plus I want to sound extra Japanesey (because Japan is better) for the internet and all of my 'sweet otaku friends' that think it's awesome to use a Japanese word when we have a perfectly good English one that means the same thing".
Maybe I'm jaded? I also don't use the term "shmup". Mostly because "shooter" (an actual word that adequately describes what takes place in that sort of game) has always been there for me.
Pa
Maybe I'm jaded? I also don't use the term "shmup". Mostly because "shooter" (an actual word that adequately describes what takes place in that sort of game) has always been there for me.
Pa
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Pa, if you were serious about not using the term shmup, then I agree with you. Plus, I hate to say, shmup sounds stupid. Besides, we need to reclaim the word shooter from all these American LAMERS (and probably everyone else) who keep calling FPSs "shooters." But that would probably be impossible.
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Pixel_Outlaw
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superhitachi4
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Haha so true. I sometimes say "tate" (I KNOW it's pronounced "tah-tay", and have known forever...but I purposely say "tayte" because that at least *sounds like "rotate"). Anyway yeah, I prefer "vertical", and "horizontal" myself, but eh. Tate, and Yoko seems to be the way of shooters. Something people have to deal with I guess.PaCrappa wrote:I've been of the opinion for a few years now that TATE really means, "I'm too lazy to type or say 'vertical' plus I want to sound extra Japanesey (because Japan is better) for the internet and all of my 'sweet otaku friends' that think it's awesome to use a Japanese word when we have a perfectly good English one that means the same thing".
Maybe I'm jaded? I also don't use the term "shmup". Mostly because "shooter" (an actual word that adequately describes what takes place in that sort of game) has always been there for me.
I doubt that has much at all to do with it. The terms are in common use because they're the terms that people see in the games' menus, by and large. "Tate" and "yoko" have always seemed like more exact terms to me, given the context, than "horizontal" and "vertical," besides. If you want to replace them with equally precise English terms, "portrait" and "landscape" are there for you. I wouldn't mind seeing the latter two come into more common use in this context, because it would leave a few less heads being scratched, but the Japanese terms are already common and well-understood.PaCrappa wrote:I've been of the opinion for a few years now that TATE really means, "I'm too lazy to type or say 'vertical' plus I want to sound extra Japanesey (because Japan is better) for the internet and all of my 'sweet otaku friends' that think it's awesome to use a Japanese word when we have a perfectly good English one that means the same thing".
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GaijinPunch
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mannerbot is right. Don't confuse tatsu/tatte with tate. tatsu (to stand).
Tate, which for some reason isn't in goo, simply means vertical, and is not game lingo. It's a normal word.
As for Pa's take on it, I've never thought vertical and tate were interchangeable. Gigawing 2, Tatsujin, Radiant Silvergun are all vertical games. They play on a yoko screen though.
Tate, which for some reason isn't in goo, simply means vertical, and is not game lingo. It's a normal word.
As for Pa's take on it, I've never thought vertical and tate were interchangeable. Gigawing 2, Tatsujin, Radiant Silvergun are all vertical games. They play on a yoko screen though.
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GaijinPunch
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mannerbot is right. Don't confuse tatsu/tatte with tate. tatsu (to stand).
Tate, which for some reason isn't in goo, simply means vertical, and is not game lingo. It's a normal word.
As for Pa's take on it, I've never thought vertical and tate were interchangeable. Gigawing 2, Tatsujin, Radiant Silvergun are all vertical games. They play on a yoko screen though
Tate, which for some reason isn't in goo, simply means vertical, and is not game lingo. It's a normal word.
As for Pa's take on it, I've never thought vertical and tate were interchangeable. Gigawing 2, Tatsujin, Radiant Silvergun are all vertical games. They play on a yoko screen though
RegalSin wrote:New PowerPuff Girls. They all have evil pornstart eyelashes.
I thought Tatsujin is tate, at least the arcade version is... Just the MD and PCE versions (and I'm guessing other versions too if they exist) got yoko-fied since tilting televisions wasn't as popular back then..GaijinPunch wrote:As for Pa's take on it, I've never thought vertical and tate were interchangeable. Gigawing 2, Tatsujin, Radiant Silvergun are all vertical games. They play on a yoko screen though
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GaijinPunch
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"originally".... who knows? That's a long time ago. A very common phrase is "yoko ni naru". (Become horizontal = lay down).Moogs wrote:I thought "tate" and "yoko" originally referred to writing Japanese either vertically or horizontally...
And yeah, forgot about the arcade version of Tatsujin as I've not played it much. You get the idea though.
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BulletMagnet
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Hmm, sounds plausible enough, I'll add it next update. Yeesh, I really need a new thread for that thing...Blade wrote:BulletMagnet, I found a name for this term:
Bullet Clearing
In my case that's pretty much it, "sounding Japanese" has nothing to do with it, it's just easier to type.PaCrappa wrote:I've been of the opinion for a few years now that TATE really means, "I'm too lazy to type or say 'vertical'...
Here's some comments from my perspective as a linguist:
It is clear that tate 'vertical' and tatu 'stand' are historically related, descending from the same root tat-, which originally had a meaning of 'rise' or 'stand'. For example, in Old Japanese poetry they wrote things like tat-o tuku rise-ATTRIBUTIVE moon "rising moon". The earliest attestation of tate in Japanese texts I could find (in a quick search through some of my Old Japanese dictionaries) is from the Manyou'shuu poem #1512 (circa 6th-7th century CE). In addition to a meaning of 'vertical space', it also meant 'distance'. yoko is also found early on in the Manyou'shuu (for example poem #4132), and interestingly is derived from the same yok- root as found in yokeru 'avoid'.
As for the argument that we already have a word for 'vertical' in English, and hence the term tate should be abolished, I think those who really believe this are overlooking some basic things. All languages borrow words (and ironically, English has borrowed more words than most languages), and there are different social motivations for these borrowings. Languages can borrow and replace a word as basic as 'stone' (cf. the Romans replacing their native lapis with the borrowed Greek word petra), so why is it so strange (or wrong) to have another word for a decidedly less basic word such as vertical, used only in a very specific sociocultural context with a specific meaning and usage (i.e. talking specifically about the screen orientation of shmups with those who play said games)? Obviously the initial motivation for the borrowing of the Japanese term tate into English stems from the fact that the vast number of vertically-oriented (as in your monitor/TV is vertical, not just the movement) shmups are from Japan, and this is the term used in Japanese to refer to vertically-oriented monitors. But the underlying motivation for the usage of the term in English (and the source of the term's prominence today) is that tate refers specifically to the orientation of the screen, not the movement on that screen. For example, when we say "I'm going to play in tate mode", or "yoko mode sucks", we can see that only the former refers to the vertical-orientation of the monitor, even though BOTH modes involve vertical movement. English lacks a word with this specific meaning, and before the importation of tate this idea could only be expressed in a clumsy phrase like "vertically-oriented monitor", or "vertically-rotated monitor". So, this gap in the English lexicon was wanting to be filled, and tate was the term which came along to fill it. The advantage of having tate and yoko in addition to vert and hori is further strengthened when we see shmups like RSG and Gigawing (vertical movement on a horizontally-oriented monitor), as it allows us to neatly and unambiguously classify these as distinct from traditional vertically-scrolling vertically-oriented monitor (see, isn't that clumsy?) shmups. So, we could have yoko verts (like RSG), tate verts (like Ibara, Ikaruga, and tons of others), and horis (like Border Down, Hyper Duel, and many others). A bit simpler, don't you think? And of course you can say you play tate verts in yoko and still maintain the same terminological clarity and economy. I don't believe there are any tate horis, so yoko hori would be redundant and could be reduced to just hori for simplicity. Just an idea. And finally, the integration of tate and yoko into the language of those who play these games is further strengthened by the grammaticalisation processes these words have undergone, for example taking on verbal forms via conversion, as in phrases I've read by posters on these forums such as "I'm going to tate my monitor tonight", and "the screen has become yoko-fied".
As for those who don't use 'shmup' because we already have 'shooter', well the obvious advantage of 'shmup' is that it is more specific than 'shooter' (which can have many meanings depending on the context).
In the end, one of them will win out, and right now 'shmup' is clearly in the lead. It always amazes me how resistant people are to new words.
As if a language exists in a vacuum and never changes!
It is clear that tate 'vertical' and tatu 'stand' are historically related, descending from the same root tat-, which originally had a meaning of 'rise' or 'stand'. For example, in Old Japanese poetry they wrote things like tat-o tuku rise-ATTRIBUTIVE moon "rising moon". The earliest attestation of tate in Japanese texts I could find (in a quick search through some of my Old Japanese dictionaries) is from the Manyou'shuu poem #1512 (circa 6th-7th century CE). In addition to a meaning of 'vertical space', it also meant 'distance'. yoko is also found early on in the Manyou'shuu (for example poem #4132), and interestingly is derived from the same yok- root as found in yokeru 'avoid'.
As for the argument that we already have a word for 'vertical' in English, and hence the term tate should be abolished, I think those who really believe this are overlooking some basic things. All languages borrow words (and ironically, English has borrowed more words than most languages), and there are different social motivations for these borrowings. Languages can borrow and replace a word as basic as 'stone' (cf. the Romans replacing their native lapis with the borrowed Greek word petra), so why is it so strange (or wrong) to have another word for a decidedly less basic word such as vertical, used only in a very specific sociocultural context with a specific meaning and usage (i.e. talking specifically about the screen orientation of shmups with those who play said games)? Obviously the initial motivation for the borrowing of the Japanese term tate into English stems from the fact that the vast number of vertically-oriented (as in your monitor/TV is vertical, not just the movement) shmups are from Japan, and this is the term used in Japanese to refer to vertically-oriented monitors. But the underlying motivation for the usage of the term in English (and the source of the term's prominence today) is that tate refers specifically to the orientation of the screen, not the movement on that screen. For example, when we say "I'm going to play in tate mode", or "yoko mode sucks", we can see that only the former refers to the vertical-orientation of the monitor, even though BOTH modes involve vertical movement. English lacks a word with this specific meaning, and before the importation of tate this idea could only be expressed in a clumsy phrase like "vertically-oriented monitor", or "vertically-rotated monitor". So, this gap in the English lexicon was wanting to be filled, and tate was the term which came along to fill it. The advantage of having tate and yoko in addition to vert and hori is further strengthened when we see shmups like RSG and Gigawing (vertical movement on a horizontally-oriented monitor), as it allows us to neatly and unambiguously classify these as distinct from traditional vertically-scrolling vertically-oriented monitor (see, isn't that clumsy?) shmups. So, we could have yoko verts (like RSG), tate verts (like Ibara, Ikaruga, and tons of others), and horis (like Border Down, Hyper Duel, and many others). A bit simpler, don't you think? And of course you can say you play tate verts in yoko and still maintain the same terminological clarity and economy. I don't believe there are any tate horis, so yoko hori would be redundant and could be reduced to just hori for simplicity. Just an idea. And finally, the integration of tate and yoko into the language of those who play these games is further strengthened by the grammaticalisation processes these words have undergone, for example taking on verbal forms via conversion, as in phrases I've read by posters on these forums such as "I'm going to tate my monitor tonight", and "the screen has become yoko-fied".
As for those who don't use 'shmup' because we already have 'shooter', well the obvious advantage of 'shmup' is that it is more specific than 'shooter' (which can have many meanings depending on the context).
In the end, one of them will win out, and right now 'shmup' is clearly in the lead. It always amazes me how resistant people are to new words.
As if a language exists in a vacuum and never changes!
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Zach Keene
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Such sentiments make me neurotic and superstitious...I mean you can't even say happy holidays these days without it being a political thing. What the FUCK does it matter which words we actually use, as long as the meaning is the same (given the meaning of the substitute is widely understood?). Uh-oh, I said 'fuck' instead of 'frigging,' some people are going to hate me now.PaCrappa wrote:I've been of the opinion for a few years now that TATE really means, "I'm too lazy to type or say 'vertical' plus I want to sound extra Japanesey (because Japan is better) for the internet and all of my 'sweet otaku friends' that think it's awesome to use a Japanese word when we have a perfectly good English one that means the same thing".
Maybe I'm jaded? I also don't use the term "shmup". Mostly because "shooter" (an actual word that adequately describes what takes place in that sort of game) has always been there for me.
Pa
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howmuchkeefe
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captain ahar
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haha, and also there's Scramble (and Super Cobra, as long as i've already gone there)Kiken wrote:The unplayable cell phone version of Progear.twe wrote:I don't believe there are any tate horis...
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