R-Type Final really sucks

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Bydobasher
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Re: R-Type Final really sucks

Post by Bydobasher »

FRO wrote:
tizerist wrote:Play with save states. Otherwise it’s stupidly hard.
I could respond in a snarky fashion, with "git gud" but I know what you mean. I'm working on the original R-Type now, and it can be brutal until you learn the paths. I would say the same for Super R-Type; it's more painful, because it means you'll have to learn a stage in its totality in order to reach the boss, then hone that stage skill while learning the boss pattern. It's not ideal, but it's doable. I'm finding out quickly that persistence pays off. For years, I hit a wall with Stage 3 in R-Type, and couldn't ever figure out how to get through the stage w/o being reckless. But I'm now consistently getting to the end of Stage 5 on 1 credit, after only 3 weeks of play, averaging *maybe* an hour a day. I suspect by the end of the month, I'll at least have the first loop figured out.
Oh, absolutely. I could never get much further than Stage 3 in the arcades either, and then when PSX R-Types was released, I could get into it seriously for the first time. I found both R-Types so punishing that I ended up selling the disc to someone I knew. Of course, I missed it so I bought another copy, and then I sold that disc too. I ended up buying it a third time, and finally got to grips with both games.

Maybe I will play Super with save states -- say, one per stage -- just to see and hear the game once again. Unlike the original game and first sequel, I don't aspire to be particularly good at Super.
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Re: R-Type Final really sucks

Post by Mortificator »

The bosses are the most likely things to cost you a life, with their unexpected attacks, so a save state before them would be good for practice. Since some bosses can be killed with a single fully-charged wave cannon shot at point-blank, you can minimize the risk with a good plan of attack. And if you know R-Type II, you know three of the seven stage bosses in Super already.
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Re: R-Type Final really sucks

Post by Bydobasher »

Mortificator wrote:The bosses are the most likely things to cost you a life, with their unexpected attacks, so a save state before them would be good for practice. Since some bosses can be killed with a single fully-charged wave cannon shot at point-blank, you can minimize the risk with a good plan of attack. And if you know R-Type II, you know three of the seven stage bosses in Super already.
Good suggestion Mortificator, I made a save state shortly before each boss and got through the game no problem. It's been a long time since I played the game and much of it was new to me.

I've always considered Super to be just a port of RT2, but it probably merits consideration as its own game. Three of seven stages are entirely new, and even stage 3 (which is obviously based on stage 2 of RT2) is rather different, with a unique boss and new music. Actually, the music is new even in stages which are familiar (specifically stages 5 and 7); only the music from stage 2 is an obvious rendition of RT2's stage 1. As with so many games on SNES, it makes fine use of the excellent SNES bass (and the compositions are nice too).

The Force control has been tweaked in a way I don't like though: when you send it out and call it back, I find it hard to get out of the way sometimes, and end up reattaching it to the same side it was on (instead of reversing its position). This doesn't happen in any other R-Type game. Besides that, the game is pretty slow sometimes (not that I mind much). The stages themselves are straightforward on the default difficulty -- probably too easy in fact -- though bosses can be tricky. Regardless, the lack of mid-stage checkpoints is a major flaw.

Game definitely has its good points though, and does enough differently to be considered on its own. My new list:

RT > RT2 > RTD > RTF > RT3 > RTL > SRT
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Re: R-Type Final really sucks

Post by Obiwanshinobi »

Thus, they put all that they wanted to do at the time into R-Type Final with the intent of that being the last game.
Reminds me of Sin & Punishment 2. I thought that was also Treasure's way of thinking whilst making it.
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Re: R-Type Final really sucks

Post by stryc9 »

I see there's not much love here for Final's soundtrack. Personally I think what was delivered suits the game perfectly, stage 2 for example - there's a dense, pulsating ambience that reflects the bizarre wildlife you encounter in the swamp-like environment of the default version. Then the following stage with the warship gives you a rousing, dutiful number before the cold and alien boss theme 'Mechanical System' kicks in just as you max the dose level of the Force Device and expose the warship core itself.

Stage 1 sounds eerily vacant, a bit like the stage itself, and a touch macabre - dirge-like as people say I guess.

I like the game itself. It's a bit style-over-substance compared to previous entries in the series, but it has more style than most modern STGs can claim to have IMO. It's solid enough to kick around with using a favourite ship once in a while to just soak up the atmosphere. It certainly doesn't 'really suck'.
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Re: R-Type Final really sucks

Post by ciox »

I would be very surprised if there won't be something done with the R-Type IP in the coming years. I guess the Switch boat has passed but maybe something for the next console/handheld generation?
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Re: R-Type Final really sucks

Post by RiderKick »

ciox wrote:
I would be very surprised if there won't be something done with the R-Type IP in the coming years. I guess the Switch boat has passed but maybe something for the next console/handheld generation?
The Switch boat has passed?

Isn't it still going on and having various games coming to it, it also seems to be getting quite a few ports of shmups so i wouldn't say the boat has passed yet.
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Re: R-Type Final really sucks

Post by kid aphex »

One of my favorite shooters.
Wow... I hope that the interest generated leads to some footage showing up.
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Re: R-Type Final really sucks

Post by kid aphex »

Obiwanshinobi wrote:
Thus, they put all that they wanted to do at the time into R-Type Final with the intent of that being the last game.
Reminds me of Sin & Punishment 2. I thought that was also Treasure's way of thinking whilst making it.
I always felt this way about Treasure/SP2 as well...
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Re: R-Type Final really sucks

Post by Despatche »

Should have made that its own topic.

The Switch has been out for about two years. It'll be a thing for at least another two or three years, if not more.
Kujo also talked about a bit of the development of R-Type Final. According to him, he felt sorry for titling it thus, but at the time, demand for side-view shmups was declining, and the team thought they wouldn’t be able to continue to make more games. Thus, they put all that they wanted to do at the time into R-Type Final with the intent of that being the last game. Kujo ended off his thoughts by saying that he will start thinking of what he can do for the series from now on.
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Re: R-Type Final really sucks

Post by BrainΦΠΦTemple »

r-type final is fine far as i'm concerned although i'll see if my view changes whenever i get around to doing a no miss clear of the default F-A route on r-typer difficulty
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Re: R-Type Final really sucks

Post by zaphod »

Super r-type is pretty stupid honestly. The lack of mid level checkpoints is evil, and it ramps up way too fast.

original r-type is still the best.

It is very much a game that you learn to play. if you really get stuck, just watch a playthrough of it.

Within five games i was reaching level six. within a few more i was reaching level seven. still haven't gotten the hang of level seven yet, that one is hard.

a lot of it is because i watched others play it in the arcade, and learned the easy tricks. (for example the level 4 boss quick kill, which when done right removes ALL it's challenge)

R-Type III is really cheap in the later levels (OMG, that maze!), just because it's a console game and thus it's considered OK to throw stuff at you with no warning whatsoever because you can just remember next time and no quarters needed. Original arcade was a lot more fair about such things, giving you plenty of clues that certain spots may become dangerous without warning later.
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Re: R-Type Final really sucks

Post by Craft_XIII »

RiderKick wrote:
ciox wrote:
I would be very surprised if there won't be something done with the R-Type IP in the coming years. I guess the Switch boat has passed but maybe something for the next console/handheld generation?
The Switch boat has passed?

Isn't it still going on and having various games coming to it, it also seems to be getting quite a few ports of shmups so i wouldn't say the boat has passed yet.
Not to mention that the First two R-Type games(R-Type Dimensions EX) just released on the Switch e-shop a couple months ago. If enough people bought/buy it, I'm sure future R-Type releases will be considered.
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Re: R-Type Final really sucks

Post by Angry Hina »

Hm... many people liked the game but everytime someone posts something there is this thread title which screams out loud that it really sucks... this really sucks ^^

Anyway, I own this game since some years but after just a few hours back then I lost the interest. The combination of the low speed, the sometimes empty stages, the memorizing concept and the checkpoint system reduced my motivation quickly to zero. Especially the 10 minutes long third level where a hit can let you play up to 4 minutes anew.

But after Final 2 has been announced I eventually got hype and I thought, now is the time to finally get into final 1. And I did. I somewhat fast managed to get routine in the first five levels in human difficulty but had problems with Lv 5 Boss onwards. The great thing in Final is, that you can in score attack play every stage again and again to practice but I wanted to achieve some milestones fast so I turned down the difficulty and tried to get some kind of 1cc. And so I got my first R-Type 1CCs in baby ( https://youtu.be/baSTdhpBKiQ ) and kids ( https://youtu.be/3efBKclKFKk ) difficulty with the RX-10 Albatross (not quite a starte ship isnt it?). And because of course nothing below normal/human really counts I got this 1CC one or two weeks later: https://youtu.be/gaAf5-nFp-o :D

So I had enough fun to play it about 20 hours so far.
And yes, the sometimes too empty stages are not so great. if you would simply cut it out of especially the stages 1, 3 and 5 I think Final would be much better. In the stages 4 and F-A they work ok, I guess. Its ok, that the soundtrack is in this ambient style but some of them (Lv. 5) work not so great even if you want a kind of sad/dark/farewell athmosphere.

But after all I think Final is really good. Delta can keep the title as the pinnacle of the R-Type series (or of all "strategic" horizontal shooters) and Final gives you some kind of R-Type-playground and a much more cineastic and detailed view on the world of R-Type and the Bydo, which is perfect to be the last entry of the series for so long. After Delta every new title whold have looked a bit bad. (even if Level 2.x, 6 and F-B are quite awesome)

At the moment I try to beat it with the R9 because the RX-10 seems to be much easier / more defensly playable and in comparison it feels a bit cheaper with the shock weapon (some boss and level strategies can simpy be skipped with it) and the huge satellite which is also quite intelligent if detached. You also get much less slowdown with the R9 which is a bit of a problem when fighting the dopkeratops and want to get through Lv 6. Sadly the ultra fast attacks of Boss 4 in its second form gives me too much problems to beet the game in bydo difficulty without one of the one-shot-kill ships... so I guess I stick to human or play the next shooter ^^
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Re: R-Type Final really sucks

Post by Austin »

I seem to flip-flop on this game, completely dependent on how well I do on the tripped-out space level.

Current R-Type Final mood: *$&% the tripped-out space level, so *$&% this game.
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Re: R-Type Final really sucks

Post by EmperorIng »

always fun to see this topic revived. I am sure you know this, but the lower your speed the less visual distortion there is on stage 5. I find speed 2 pretty manageable getting through it.

Been meaning to give this a few more runs lately...
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Re: R-Type Final really sucks

Post by Angry Hina »

Within the last three days Ive completed the game two further times.
The first one with the R12 cross the rubicon to get into the 3.5 stage with its epic boss fight. The R12 played different enough from the RX-10 to give a quite new experience and it is not so much stronger I thought it is the first time Ive seen a video with it.
https://youtu.be/9GL8TIwkVSQ

To get a good (possibly last) milestone with Final Ive wanted to get sure to not have "cheated" with a too strong Ship and so Ive last night got my 1cc with the R9-A.
https://youtu.be/VqR-jA199J4

It was really a bit harder for me but possibly just because I was too accustomed to play a defensive style with the huge Forces of the RX-10 and the R12. So I had to lern some new routs, which was pretty fun to not be able to trust so much on the forces, especially in stage 6. Sadly the sun crosses in F-A forced me to use a dose -.-

I guess I like the stages in Final a bit more then the ones in 1-3 because there are no too memorization heavy ones like stage 6 in the first R-Type, stage 4 in III or stage 5 in II.
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Re: R-Type Final really sucks

Post by copy-paster »

R-9A definitely will keep your toes. I feel like this game was designed with this ship in mind.
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Re: R-Type Final really sucks

Post by evil_ash_xero »

EmperorIng wrote:always fun to see this topic revived.
I always get a smile on my face, when it does. :D
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Re: R-Type Final really sucks

Post by Gamer707b »

kid aphex wrote:
Obiwanshinobi wrote:
Thus, they put all that they wanted to do at the time into R-Type Final with the intent of that being the last game.
Reminds me of Sin & Punishment 2. I thought that was also Treasure's way of thinking whilst making it.
I always felt this way about Treasure/SP2 as well...
Nintendo owns the IP though. Im surprised they haven't commissioned Treasure to do another one. Just to throw the fans a bone. If anyone can afford to do that, its Nintendo.
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Re: R-Type Final really sucks

Post by Angry Hina »

So, about the balancing: Ive played a few rounds with the Ragnarok 1 wich, I think, is not so powerful as I thought and sometimes has been written. He has not some kind of piercing charge shot to kill the bosses with one single shot. Some bosses are even a bit more chellenging as with the standard beam. The Strike Bomber and of course the Ragnarok 2 ist far stronger I think. At the moment I have more trouble with the Ragnarok 1 as with the Arrow Head. With the Ragnarok 1 there are some parts, were the firepower of the red or blue weapon is surprisingly low. Thats because the stages 6 and FA and even 3 are a bit more difficult. I Think it is a good balanced ship. The hyper beam is sometimes really strong but occasionally the downtime causes more trouble.

Possibly many ships are more or less balanced as long as their force is small and not intelligent, the beam is not piercing and has no area of effect. What do you think?
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Re: R-Type Final really sucks

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EmperorIng wrote:always fun to see this topic revived. I am sure you know this, but the lower your speed the less visual distortion there is on stage 5. I find speed 2 pretty manageable getting through it.
I did not know that, actually. I play most of the game at the third speed setting, so maybe that's why I'm having trouble here. I'll give it another try soon.
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Re: R-Type Final really sucks

Post by copy-paster »

Austin wrote:
EmperorIng wrote:always fun to see this topic revived. I am sure you know this, but the lower your speed the less visual distortion there is on stage 5. I find speed 2 pretty manageable getting through it.
I did not know that, actually. I play most of the game at the third speed setting, so maybe that's why I'm having trouble here. I'll give it another try soon.
It was nice little detail tbh. I mostly go for speed 2 in here, switch to 3 whenever I want to speedkill or dangerous parts. Nowadays I'd prefer to use custom ship with Leo Force DX + Giga Wave Cannon, the satisfaction of destroy the huge disgusting Bydo train in 4.0 is real. :twisted:
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Re: R-Type Final really sucks

Post by tiberionx »

Heyyy! this game is allright, I like the collection aspect of it , even if it is very grindy

Decided to try to complete all the ships as I've never managed to before and because of Rtype final 2 coming soon

I don't remember getting Leo last time, but this ship is very strong , Red beam just destroys everything , you can even stand in front of 4th boss easy
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Re: R-Type Final really sucks

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(all mentioned 1CCs without life loss and use of the dose (superweapon))
Two weeks ago I managed a run with the Ragnarok 1:
https://youtu.be/RYJBq0PH8LI
which I found to be the least strong ship from the ones Ive made a 1cc so far. including even the R9-A Arrowhead. No comparison to the ultrastrong Ragnarok II. I think its Wavecannons leads to no real advantages compared to even the most regular two stock wavecannon of for instance the R9 A. Its more that it is really a disadvantage and you have to plan its use more precisely.

In addition its sometimes hard to get good hits with the red beam to get kills in time so I changed in level 3 to the yellow one to get down the bomb cannons more persistant. In level 5 I used it to not hit the sidepods of the boss accidentally which the red one tends to do, because of the slower speed of the rays. The blue one is complete useless I think.

After that Ive made a run with the Ragnarok 2:
https://youtu.be/zy3OjukXZck
This one is really strong. Alone because of the piercing mustistock chargecannon so you dont have to think of bosses or midbosses anymore. But a more regular Ship as the R9-S Strike Bomber can do this as well. But the Ragnarok 2 has in addition a great melee Force in detatched mode and 3 supergood beams. From which the blue ist the strongest. After the Ragnarok 1 run this one was really easy. A bit sad, that this one is so cheaty because its style is really nice.

Before putting Final back to my other games I wanted to do also a run with the cool Delta ship R13 Cerberus with its anchor force:
https://youtu.be/Ofbl0FOoQx8
It was of course harder as with the Ragnarok 2 but easier as with the Ragnarok 1.
A kinda versatile fighter with an interesting charge beam and useful "Anchor Force" but with its three beam types more on the weaker side. But not as weak as the ones of the shooting star for instance.
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Re: R-Type Final really sucks

Post by Kobayashi »

Angry Hina wrote:(all mentioned 1CCs without life loss and use of the dose (superweapon))
Two weeks ago I managed a run with the Ragnarok 1:
https://youtu.be/RYJBq0PH8LI
which I found to be the least strong ship from the ones Ive made a 1cc so far. including even the R9-A Arrowhead. No comparison to the ultrastrong Ragnarok II. I think its Wavecannons leads to no real advantages compared to even the most regular two stock wavecannon of for instance the R9 A. Its more that it is really a disadvantage and you have to plan its use more precisely.

In addition its sometimes hard to get good hits with the red beam to get kills in time so I changed in level 3 to the yellow one to get down the bomb cannons more persistant. In level 5 I used it to not hit the sidepods of the boss accidentally which the red one tends to do, because of the slower speed of the rays. The blue one is complete useless I think.

After that Ive made a run with the Ragnarok 2:
https://youtu.be/zy3OjukXZck
This one is really strong. Alone because of the piercing mustistock chargecannon so you dont have to think of bosses or midbosses anymore. But a more regular Ship as the R9-S Strike Bomber can do this as well. But the Ragnarok 2 has in addition a great melee Force in detatched mode and 3 supergood beams. From which the blue ist the strongest. After the Ragnarok 1 run this one was really easy. A bit sad, that this one is so cheaty because its style is really nice.

Before putting Final back to my other games I wanted to do also a run with the cool Delta ship R13 Cerberus with its anchor force:
https://youtu.be/Ofbl0FOoQx8
It was of course harder as with the Ragnarok 2 but easier as with the Ragnarok 1.
A kinda versatile fighter with an interesting charge beam and useful "Anchor Force" but with its three beam types more on the weaker side. But not as weak as the ones of the shooting star for instance.
Great run, man!
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Re: R-Type Final really sucks

Post by Angry Hina »

Many thanks ^^
Which one have you seen?
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Re: R-Type Final really sucks

Post by Kobayashi »

Angry Hina wrote:Many thanks ^^
Which one have you seen?
You're welcome!
All of them + thumbs up.
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Re: R-Type Final really sucks

Post by BrainΦΠΦTemple »

idk why people say this suCks. this game is pretty fukken fun on r-typer difficulty. especially with tHat r-9S striker bomber ship with the super blAster
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