Consumer CRT or PVM for light gun Games???

[Revolver Ocelot]

Until recently I have been more the LCD fanboy, I never thought I would consider going back. But recently I developed some interest for the old light gun games after playing them again at the arcade at my local cinema.

I did some research and the home consoles I own, (Ps2, Dreamcast and the Saturn) have plenty of nice lightgun games to offer Now I need a small CRT and a light gun to play them again.

Unfortunately, I have not much space left for the crt. So I would something in the .21. to 28 inch. Even a bit smaller would be preferable.


At this small scale, what type of display would offer the best image quality? A professional monitor or a small consumer CRT. I will use my future TV or monitor primerly for Lighgun Games but it is not imposible that I will use for other games as well. Just to get the full retor experience. So I am looking for a decent general purpose TV. Sutiable for all type of games not only the Lightgun Shooters.

Would be glad hearing some recommendations.

[maxtherabbit]

just my opinion, but light gun games on a small display aren't very fun

I just scooped a 32" trinitron and it's pretty great

[Dochartaigh]

I like them on my 27" consumer Sony CRT. 20" is just fine too. I think PS2 has the best selection of light gun games out of any system - although my favorite light gun game is House of the Dead 3 on the original Xbox (but it's literally the only true light gun game for that system since Silent Scope doesn't work unless the brightness is turned up so high the graphics are totally washed out).

[Revolver Ocelot]

just my opinion, but light gun games on a small display aren't very fun

I just scooped a 32" trinitron and it's pretty great

Actually I would not mind getting a bigger one, but unfortunately I have no space for it. So I need to stick to a smaller one for the time being.


@Dochartaigh Did not know that there a Xbox Version of House of the the Dead 3. Although I had a Xbox, I had never heard about that game before. Too bad.


I will try to hunt down a Sony Trinitron or get a Sony or Panasonic Profesional Monitor. What other brands of CRT would you recommend? The Danish company B&Q also has a good reputation concerining Consumer TV in the retro gaming circles.

[Hoagtech]

I would recommend a 20" PVM over a 32" consumer set.

I love my big screens though. If you could find one, NEC and Mitsubishi make 37" Monitors that seem to hold up over time.

Look for XM XP and XC after the model for the pro ones.

It is a search that gets tougher every year. Heres a list of pro monitors shared by another Shmups user :
http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthrea ... nitor-List

Based on your size request I would look EVERYWHERE for these models :

33 Mitsubishi MegaView 33 (XC-3315C) 800x600 60 Hz 15-38 Khz .83 40-120 Hz
33 Mitsubishi Diamond Scan 33 1024x768 15-38 Khz .83 40-120 Hz
29 Mitsubishi MegaView Pro 29 (XC-2930C) 1280x1024 75 Hz 15-82 Khz .79 40-120 Hz
29 Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 29 1280x1024 15-82 Khz .79 40-120 Hz
29 Mitsubishi MegaView 29 (AM-2725A) 640x480 66 Hz 15-39 Khz .76 45-100 Hz
29 NEC MultiSync XM29 (XM2950) 1024x768 15-50 Khz .75 40-100 Hz

It's not easy but its doable.

Ebay has local pickups typically and would take the buyer some convincing allow you to pay and arrange freight.

State surplus have monitor batches listed that can be had. I would google your local surplus auction sites.

PC and TV recycling centers often strip copper from them and can be convinced to call you when they see a particular model.

Also Goodwill outlets (with the tubs) still sell giant CRT's for next to nothing and have Professional monitors sometimes.

[mvsfan]

keep in mind though that a 4:3 tv always has bigger picture, than playing 4:3 games on an equivalent size 16:9 Tv.

for example, in order to get about 32" screen on a 4:3 game, you need about a 40" 16:9 flatscreen tv.

[Revolver Ocelot]

Hoagtech Thanks a lot for the detailed post and the list. I will try to find one of the mentioned sets.

@msvfan Thanks for the info. That's vital information for a person new to CRT gaming like me.

@all Ar consumer televisions or professional sets picky with the different sync levels or can they work with any snyc type? The reason I am asking is that, for my cr gaming efforts, I need to get a new rgb scart cable for my saturn, ps2, and also for the Dreamcast. The old cable for the saturn broke, for the ps2 I intended to use component initially and the Dreamcast was just used via VGA. So in order to use these consoles on my future Crt I set I need some new cables and a bnc adapter for Euro scart in case I get a PVM and not a consumer CRT.

[DoomsDave]

I have a PVM 20L5 and that has issues with accuracy in light gun games that doesn't show up on consumer sets. It's accurate around the center of the screen but off target when you shoot in any of the corners. Might be some weird problem that's isolated to me but that's just my experience. I also have a BVM 20G1 and PVM 20N6 so I'll test on those to see if I get the same issue.

[Revolver Ocelot]

I have a PVM 20L5 and that has issues with accuracy in light gun games that doesn't show up on consumer sets. It's accurate around the center of the screen but off target when you shoot in any of the corners. Might be some weird problem that's isolated to me but that's just my experience. I also have a BVM 20G1 and PVM 20N6 so I'll test on those to see if I get the same issue.

That sounds intersting. Please post your test results here if your other monitors have the same problems with lightgun games. I will also try to research in that matter as much as I can. If the problem is prevalent I will focus my search on consumer sets instead.

[Dochartaigh]

I have a PVM 20L5 and that has issues with accuracy in light gun games that doesn't show up on consumer sets. It's accurate around the center of the screen but off target when you shoot in any of the corners. Might be some weird problem that's isolated to me but that's just my experience. I also have a BVM 20G1 and PVM 20N6 so I'll test on those to see if I get the same issue.

I've beat HoTD III (and a good chunk of HoTD II unlockable), and Time Crisis 2 and 3 recently and I commonly switch between a 20L5 and D20F1U (and a couple others). I mean, I still probably suck at these games horribly, but I haven't noticed any accuracy drop-off on the edges of the screen (most of the shots are more centered though of course, but there's still stuff to shoot toward the edges of course at times). I mean, I still suck at the games I'm sure, but when I actually take my time and aim I hit what I want to - even when it's not in the center of the screen.

[Einzelherz]

I have a PVM 20L5 and that has issues with accuracy in light gun games that doesn't show up on consumer sets. It's accurate around the center of the screen but off target when you shoot in any of the corners. Might be some weird problem that's isolated to me but that's just my experience. I also have a BVM 20G1 and PVM 20N6 so I'll test on those to see if I get the same issue.

Same with my 20L2.

My 27" Phillips doesn't have problems and it's a great size for light gun games.

[Revolver Ocelot]

Thanks a lot for the furthe replies. So the opinions about PVM and Lighgun Games seem to differ.


What brand of .27. Consumer CRT would you recommend? Are B&O TV Sets any get? I could a B&O Mx 4000 near me. Are they any good? Or shall i wait till some Sony Trinitron will pop up. I have read that the sony tv are among the best consumer sets for retro Gamer. Ist that correct?

[Gara]

Try and get one with component and Svideo input. You may not need the Svideo if you are using HD retrovision cables or a rgb scart to ypbpr transcoder. The various Sony models are by far the most popular. The fv310 is Holy grail but it is really uncommon and sought after. If you find one grab it.

Old thread talking about that tv
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=43861
Really cool looking but more style over function. I think you would be much happier with a trinitron.

I'll have to do some testing on my 20L5 on light guns. I didn't notice any issues with accuracy last time I played but I didn't do much. The my life in gaming folk use a 20l5 for light gun games and seem to like it.

[Austin]

At this small scale, what type of display would offer the best image quality? A professional monitor or a small consumer CRT.

A professional monitor will naturally give the best picture quality. They generally have a greater line count than consumer televisions and that alone will make things look more crisp, and that's before even taking into account the signal type (composite, s-video, RGB, whatever).

If you are stuck in a spot where you can only have a small display, you might as well spring for the best. If you ever have the space though, a larger consumer CRT is better for light gun games. That extra screen space is welcome for these types of games.

[Hoagtech]

Here is a video of my son learning Duck Hunt on my Mitsubishi XC3725C with an OSSC.

It works great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-i8ePVcHXI

[Revolver Ocelot]

@all Thanks a lot for the further replies they were really helpful.

If you are stuck in a spot where you can only have a small display, you might as well spring for the best. If you ever have the space though, a larger consumer CRT is better for light gun games. That extra screen space is welcome for these types of games.

For now I have not much space thats why I was asking for a small comsume crt or a Monitor that can be stored on my desk. But later in the future, when I rearrange my room I maybe have space for a bigger CRT Set. I am somehow temped getting one of These big sony trintron in the future.

But as starting Point a Monitor might be the best choice. After getting a bnc breakout Adapter I can use all my consoles with rgb on the Monitor and that should give a great Picture.

[Revolver Ocelot]

i finished checking some local offers in my hometown and it seems that I can get a commodore monitor (no further details about the model) and a Panasonic BT-M1420PY 14.

What do you guys think about the Commodore and Panasonic Monitors? Does anybody have experience which one them?

And on the consumer CRT front, I could find a Sony Trinitrion KV21FT1E. Did anybody hear of the particular Sony already?

[Dochartaigh]

i finished checking some local offers in my hometown and it seems that I can get a commodore monitor (no further details about the model) and a Panasonic BT-M1420PY 14.

What do you guys think about the Commodore and Panasonic Monitors? Does anybody have experience which one them?

And on the consumer CRT front, I could find a Sony Trinitrion KV21FT1E. Did anybody hear of the particular Sony already?

if there's no further details about the Commodore, i would skip it because there's so many different models (and I'm not even sure if any of them takes RGBS like we know and talk about PVM-type monitors having). The Panasonic, although not a model I'm familiar with in the states, seems to have 625 TV Lines, and have RGB inputs which is a great thing. You can find the manual here:

https://elektrotanya.com/panasonic_bt-m ... nload.html

That's the one I would grab if the price is right and it's in good condition. I LOVED my 750 TV Line Panasonics, although the ones I had seem to be the next generation newer (if not 2 generations) than this 1420 model.

[maxtherabbit]

I've had great experience with panasonic displays generally, never tried that specific model though

[Revolver Ocelot]

Dochartaigh Ok thanks for sharin the manual. Yeah I am going to check out the panasonic for sure. if the condtion is good and the price is ok I will take it. It should serve me really well.

I also like the fact that is an s video input too, so I can use n64 on it as well and not only the consoles that can ouput rgb.

[gray117]

Here is a video of my son learning Duck Hunt on my Mitsubishi XC3725C with an OSSC.

It works great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-i8ePVcHXI

As if this wasn't enough just to be adorable - it's also educational! Typing of the dead next year

[Revolver Ocelot]

I found another PVM near me now. The Sony PVM-9041QM . It is a bit cheaper then the above mentioned Pansonic. The only drawback is, that I cannot check it out with me own eyes before buying. Because it is located quite far away and the only way to get is via shipping. the Pansonic on the either hand i could pick up and check it out.

Would it be decent option to chose a Sony PVM over a Pansonic or is the Pansonic maybe better?

what is your experience with the Sony PVM in general.

[Einzelherz]

I'm not 100% on this but I believe that's a 9", and very old pvm.

[Dochartaigh]

I'm not 100% on this but I believe that's a 9", and very old pvm.

It may be newer than that Panasonic he's looking at actually (that ones seems to be a really old model). But besides that 9" is, IMO, WAY too small to play light gun games on (which I assume he wants this for if he posted in a topic about light gun games).

[Revolver Ocelot]

Yes thats right. The main reason I want to got a PVM or a consumer CRT are lightgun games. If this monitor is really just a 9 size it is way to small for sure. so I will keep looking.

Thanks for the information.

[Revolver Ocelot]

What are your thoughs on the sony pvm 2730 qm? I would have the chance to get one at a good Price. It is rather far away from my home, so I would have to drive for a long distance.

So I want to make certain it is worth it. what do you guys think about the model?

[Dochartaigh]

What are your thoughs on the sony pvm 2730 qm? I would have the chance to get one at a good Price. It is rather far away from my home, so I would have to drive for a long distance.

So I want to make certain it is worth it. what do you guys think about the model?

It all depends on the condition it's in - these older CRT's can vary wildly depending on how they've been used. That being said, I absolutely love my PVM-3230 (larger than yours, higher line count, but same series).

The 2730 seems to only be 420 TV Lines, so to be honest a nice quality (and most likely newer) consumer TV could look extremely similar to that PVM.

[Revolver Ocelot]

What are your thoughs on the sony pvm 2730 qm? I would have the chance to get one at a good Price. It is rather far away from my home, so I would have to drive for a long distance.

So I want to make certain it is worth it. what do you guys think about the model?

It all depends on the condition it's in - these older CRT's can vary wildly depending on how they've been used. That being said, I absolutely love my PVM-3230 (larger than yours, higher line count, but same series).

The 2730 seems to only be 420 TV Lines, so to be honest a nice quality (and most likely newer) consumer TV could look extremely similar to that PVM.

Thanks for the info. I cannot say anything about the condition yet Need to see it with my own eyes before I can tell anything.

I am considering getting a newer consumer CRT as well .

I could get a big CRT the Sony Trinitron KV-32LS60E for almost nothing. The technical data sounds promising but unfortunately it has 100 Hz which could lead to Problems with light guns. It also 16:9 which is not perfect too.

I want to use my upcoming ps1, the Saturn and Dreamcast on it. The games on this machines are only 4:3 as far as I know. Maybe I will try out my gamecube too an the crt, and for the few gamecube games with 16:9 to sony would be good I think.

I am also still looking for a older 4:3 Trinitron. But If i cannot find one soon, I am really tempted to get the big (for crt Terms only of Course) Sony...


Space is there so no Problem to get a bigger one