Dreamcast 480p output Framemeister

[Revolver Ocelot]

I was looking for Options to connect Dreamcast with the Framemeister and my TV for the best possible 480p ouput. initially I thought my search came already to an end when I learned about the Toro VGA Box from Beharbos. But then I learned here in the Forum about some other upcoming cable based Solutions.

Apparently there will be some non vga based Solutions. HD Retro Vision is working on a component cable and Retro gaming cables Uk are working on a 480p scart cable.

Could be interesting and maybe worth the waiting.

But now for my question: I am correct that the Toro is capable of outputting 480p over the Scart port of the Framemeister? And that there is no Need to bother with VGA cable to get VGA like Quality for all games on the Dreamcast?

VGA is a bit bothesome for me. Neither the Framemeister nor my TV have a direct VGA port, so VGA is not the best Option for me.

If I can use 480p over scart hat would be perfect. ???

In that case it would be just a matter of personal taste what Option to use. Either get thte Toro soon, or wait for the component and rgb Solutions.

Is everything correct what I said or did I miss a certain Point?

[nmalinoski]

Apparently there will be some non vga based Solutions. HD Retro Vision is working on a component cable and Retro gaming cables Uk are working on a 480p scart cable.
...
But now for my question: I am correct that the Toro is capable of outputting 480p over the Scart port of the Framemeister? And that there is no Need to bother with VGA cable to get VGA like Quality for all games on the Dreamcast?

The Toro is indeed capable of sending 480p RGBS over its SCART output. In order to do so, you need to set the output mode switch, between the SCART and VGA outputs, to RGBS mode (Needed for the SCART output, as SCART has no facility for separate horizontal and vertical sync signals), then make sure the Dreamcast mode switch (the one closest to the console) is set to RGBHV (VGA) mode.

As long as you have that Dreamcast mode switch set to RGBHV (VGA) on the Toro, it doesn't matter which output you use, as it's sending the same RGB video signals to both; the only difference being that it runs the separate horizontal and vertical sync signals through a sync combiner to get composite sync, which should not affect the image quality.

If I can use 480p over scart hat would be perfect. ???

In general, yes; but the Framemeister is known for having trouble with 480p. I would think you're best off connecting the Dreamcast directly to your display, or configuring the Framemeister to not process 480p (assuming that's possible).

[maxtherabbit]

I know this thread is about the FM, but @citrus3000psi has a very promising HDMI mod in the works for dreamcast - there's POC video on his youtube channel

[Revolver Ocelot]

I know this thread is about the FM, but @citrus3000psi has a very promising HDMI mod in the works for dreamcast - there's POC video on his youtube channel

thanks for mentioning it. It is really good news that another of my favourite gaming systems, The Dreamcast is getting a HDMI mod. The only Mod I know so far was a VGA mod but the HDMI mod is way more promising.


@nmalinoski Hm if the FM is really that troublesome with 480p it maybe would be better I get something like the akura direct to my TV. Or wait for the HD retro vision component cable. Or even Consider the HDMI mod.. My TV has no Scart so my only way to use Scart consoles is the FM.

At first I wanted to get Akura anway but then I read that it has some problems with the correct aspect ratio, so i focused on the Toro instead. But i did not consider the 480p problem the FM has. Not the first time I read about the 480p problem with the FM....

[opt2not]

I know this thread is about the FM, but @citrus3000psi has a very promising HDMI mod in the works for dreamcast - there's POC video on his youtube channel

thanks for mentioning it. It is really good news that another of my favourite gaming systems, The Dreamcast is getting a HDMI mod. The only Mod I know so far was a VGA mod but the HDMI mod is way more promising.

The beharbros aslo have an HDMI box called the Akura:

https://www.beharbros.com/akura

[Revolver Ocelot]

I know this thread is about the FM, but @citrus3000psi has a very promising HDMI mod in the works for dreamcast - there's POC video on his youtube channel

thanks for mentioning it. It is really good news that another of my favourite gaming systems, The Dreamcast is getting a HDMI mod. The only Mod I know so far was a VGA mod but the HDMI mod is way more promising.

The beharbros aslo have an HDMI box called the Akura:

https://www.beharbros.com/akura

Yes I know. As I said the akura was my first choice but then I heard about the aspect ratio problems it has, and then it was not so interested in it any more.

[citrus3000psi]

Things are still going nicely with the DCHDMI. We think we have the final board revision done.

The main goal of this project is to make it work perfectly in all situations. Video and Audio quality is of the highest importance. All other features are secondary.

[opt2not]

Yes I know. As I said the akura was my first choice but then I heard about the aspect ratio problems it has, and then it was not so interested in it any more.

Ah, gotcha. Sorry, I didn't read your response to max.

I haven't heard of the problems with aspect ratios on the Akura. A friend of mine has it and he says it's great, but I'm not sure if he noticed any aspect ratio issues, or if he cares about it TBH. For 3D games it's not that big of a deal, but 2D is a different story.

Personally I use the Toro through my FM and OSSC. 480p through SCART upscaled looks great on my Benq Zowie, works for my SCART-dependent set-up. Here are a few potato pictures, which really doesn't do it justice, in person it looks absolutely fabulous!

[nmalinoski]

@nmalinoski Hm if the FM is really that troublesome with 480p it maybe would be better I get something like the akura direct to my TV. Or wait for the HD retro vision component cable. Or even Consider the HDMI mod.. My TV has no Scart so my only way to use Scart consoles is the FM.

At first I wanted to get Akura anway but then I read that it has some problems with the correct aspect ratio, so i focused on the Toro instead. But i did not consider the 480p problem the FM has. Not the first time I read about the 480p problem with the FM....

I passed on the Akura because it seemed too limiting to me. I had already invested in an OSSC (my displays don't have SCART either), so it made the most sense to me to get a Toro and connect it to the OSSC via SCART; plus, the Toro has that mode switch that lets me trick most 480i-only games into playing in 480p, whereas the Akura doesn't have any compatibility with 480i-only games. (Yes, there are ways around it; no, I don't want to deal with any of them.)

I think I would go for the HDMI mod, if only because it would make using the console in the future easier, as analogue video processing equipment and CRTs are just going to get rarer and more expensive. It won't be the same as playing it on a CRT, but good luck finding one in good shape and someone to properly calibrate it.

[opt2not]

plus, the Toro has that mode switch that lets me trick most 480i-only games into playing in 480p, whereas the Akura doesn't have any compatibility with 480i-only games

@citrus3000psi will there be any tricks or support on the DCHDMI for games that doesn't support 480p as well?

[Revolver Ocelot]

Things are still going nicely with the DCHDMI. We think we have the final board revision done.

The main goal of this project is to make it work perfectly in all situations. Video and Audio quality is of the highest importance. All other features are secondary.

That sounds really promising. Thanks for the update of the project.

@opt2not I am not sure either if I would notice the aspect ratio problem the Akura has to suppose to have or not. Some people are really happy with it while others criticize the Aspect Ratio. Your Set up looks really nice the way.


@nmalinoski i really like my Framemeister but I am also thinking to upgrade as many of my retro consoles to HDMI as possible. I will upgrade my Gamecube, my N64 und maybe the Dreamcast.

I can wait till I have a 480p solution for the DC. For now though I cannot say anything wrong about my current 480i RGB solution. The FM does the scaling really nice.

[citrus3000psi]

@citrus3000psi will there be any tricks or support on the DCHDMI for games that doesn't support 480p as well?

I don't see why its not possible. The FPGA will be controlling Pin6/Pin7. So there could be an automatic sequence at startup of when to initialize 480p mode.

[Revolver Ocelot]

@citrus3000psi will there be any tricks or support on the DCHDMI for games that doesn't support 480p as well?

I don't see why its not possible. The FPGA will be controlling Pin6/Pin7. So there could be an automatic sequence at startup of when to initialize 480p mode.

that sounds promising. Most of the Dreamcast Games i am intersted in have 480p support it is good that games without the 480p support are playable as well.

I am really intersted in the HDMI solution. The upcoming component cables from hd retro vision are nice too, but it seems that component will be phased out in he near future; many new upcoming TVs do not have it anymore. So a HDMI solution would be the most future proof set up.

[citrus3000psi]

It will also do 480p line doubling to 960p and 960p in a 1080p frame, just in case your tv is picky

[Revolver Ocelot]

It will also do 480p line doubling to 960p and 960p in a 1080p frame, just in case your tv is picky

thats also a nice feature in case my Pansonic is picky to take low res signals via HDMI.


I am sure now I will wait for the mod to have a decent 480 solution for my DC. Until it is available I will stick to the standard RGB Scart cable for use on the FM. and then upgrade directly to HDMI.