Questions that do not deserve a thread

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Dochartaigh
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Dochartaigh »

It's definitely the Extron then. I would buy a new one. If you want one on the cheap there's always ones up for like $10-20 + shipping (only the 203ish models are usually $75-100). You can also open up the Extron and see if it has any bulging caps and check if somebody moved the jumpers (it's a PITA to open then up though).
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Kez
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Kez »

Thanks, I'm inclined to agree. I did open it up previously to check the jumpers, which were all default (and I agree it's a PITA). I'll have another look at the caps though.

Actually I just tried it out on my OSSC and the results were pretty weird.. to start off with the picture is really dark with waves of interference going through it and then when the game starts everything looks suddenly perfect! Here's a video:

https://youtu.be/gkOMBpfoPk0

Strange stuff. The wavy interference is making me think it's a power issue? I am no engineer though.
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Syntax
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Syntax »

That darkness and waves is a bad ground somewhere imo.
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Einzelherz
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Einzelherz »

AaronSR wrote:Anyone with a PSone LCD know how it deals with games that have resolution switching (Chrono Cross, Silent Hill etc.)?
Iirc it handles 480i content so I don't think it's an issue? I'm pretty sure I ran my DC and PS2 through it.
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Kez
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Kez »

Syntax wrote:That darkness and waves is a bad ground somewhere imo.
Do you suppose that is something diagnosable/fixable (bearing in mind my diagnostic arsenal consists of a multimeter), or should I just go on the hunt for a new Extron?
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Apache Thunder
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Apache Thunder »

I have a Sony KV13TR24 on it's way in the mail (yeah mail is a hazardous service for getting CRT TVs. But I had no choice. :P ). It's a 13incher made in 1990. Decided if I was going to drop some money on a old TV it's gonna be a Trinitron from before the flat CRT era. I've heard about some geometry issues flat tubes can have so that's something I'm not willing to deal with. Besides, I've seen the trinitron displays on the old Macintosh all in ones from the 90s and I can definitely say they are my favorite tube. :D


At some point I want to RGB mod this TV. (even though I only really have one or two consoles that can take advantage of it. But heck with a Component to RGB adapter I can hook more stuff up to it. :D ).

This TV has composite inputs on the back but nothing else besides the usual RF jack. I looked all over for the service manual but I can't find it. :(

I can only find a service manual for the KV13TR28. Is this model mostly the same internally besides the extra AV ports on the front which the one I'm getting doesn't have? If this one is anything to go by, it looks like it has a dedicated module for Closed Captions and it is indeed using RGB for that. Looks like I can just tap into that and use composite video for sync (unless there's a better route for sync for this tv? It doesn't have S-Video so no dedicated Luma line that I can see) Also I assume I can use the ground connection that the AV ports use? I can't find where the ground pin is for the CC module)

I expect I need to 75 ohm terminate my RGB connections and the 0.1 uf capacitors in series with the RGB lines? This will be my first RGB attempt. Got some practice by adding composite video to a few old B&W tvs. Not as complicated but was a good test run to make sure my soldering is good enough to do something a bit more serious. :P

But if someone owns this TV or knows where the service manual is for it, I would like to know if the CC module pin out is the same. That's my main concern since I can't find correct service manual. :(
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geiger9
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by geiger9 »

I picked up a Samsung SMC-150FN for free yesterday. I calibrated the colors using SMPTE bars but as you can see there is something going on in the top left corner of the screen. There is no remote with this unit and I can't find a service menu for it online. Does anyone know how to get into the service menu of Samsung CCTV? I tried opening the unit and looking around but there are no pots for adjusting things like pincushion and h position.
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Syntax
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Syntax »

Just finished a MD2 RGB bypass and was taking a look at color bars.
https://imgur.com/VDnGD1k

What the he'll is going on @ 7?? Is it the Rom or something?
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ASDR
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by ASDR »

Syntax wrote:Just finished a MD2 RGB bypass and was taking a look at color bars.
https://imgur.com/VDnGD1k

What the he'll is going on @ 7?? Is it the Rom or something?
Nah, my mostly-stock MD1 doesn't do that on the color bars in the test suite :(

What kind of bypass board did you install? Rolled your own? Would love to see a picture of the installation, maybe somebody more experienced could also give some feedback based on that.
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maxtherabbit
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by maxtherabbit »

why do the PS2, SNES, and Dreamcast all output thin black pillarboxing on the sides on the picture through the same component switch and input on my panny plasma but my xbox does not? bars appear on 240p/480i/480p on former consoles, do not happen on 480i/p on the bawx

(FTR the dreamcast is hooked up with CVBS->Y through the switch for testing purposes while I wait for HDRV to finish their DC cable)
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Syntax
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Syntax »

Found the problem.
In an effort to retain composite video to use as sync on consumer TV's, whilst installing my RGB bypass board id left the stock encoder wired up (because csync screws up so much stuff)
I just removed the stock amp from the chain and the picture is clear again.

I'm going to do some more experimenting with it as I swear I had it working well at one point.

With my bypass amp it has been designed to have the stock ones sync subcarrier and rgb lines pulled.

Recently whilst trying to rid jailbars I ripped the entire rgb traces up and went to the amps via shielded coax.
But this time around I removed the stock amps termination resistors as I was worried they were effecting the bypass amp and I think that's the issue, composite video was not working correctly either.

Ill replace the terminations resistors and see if it clears up with both amps still connected
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Einzelherz
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Einzelherz »

maxtherabbit wrote:why do the PS2, SNES, and Dreamcast all output thin black pillarboxing on the sides on the picture through the same component switch and input on my panny plasma but my xbox does not? bars appear on 240p/480i/480p on former consoles, do not happen on 480i/p on the bawx

(FTR the dreamcast is hooked up with CVBS->Y through the switch for testing purposes while I wait for HDRV to finish their DC cable)
For the SNES it could be game dependent as many had their screen res cropped a bit to make sure they ran smooth. This is common on Square games, for instance.
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maxtherabbit
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by maxtherabbit »

Einzelherz wrote:
maxtherabbit wrote:why do the PS2, SNES, and Dreamcast all output thin black pillarboxing on the sides on the picture through the same component switch and input on my panny plasma but my xbox does not? bars appear on 240p/480i/480p on former consoles, do not happen on 480i/p on the bawx

(FTR the dreamcast is hooked up with CVBS->Y through the switch for testing purposes while I wait for HDRV to finish their DC cable)
For the SNES it could be game dependent as many had their screen res cropped a bit to make sure they ran smooth. This is common on Square games, for instance.
every game I've played so far has had them: super mario world, super street fighter 2, donkey kong country, inspector gadget, weaponlord

I've read several threads discussing the issue on the dreamcast, but I thought it was odd that the other "old" consoles seem to be doing the exact same thing - the bars appear to be the same width and everything. But when I switch over to the "modern" lol original xbox it fills the 4:3 area perfectly.
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ASDR
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by ASDR »

maxtherabbit wrote: I've read several threads discussing the issue on the dreamcast, but I thought it was odd that the other "old" consoles seem to be doing the exact same thing - the bars appear to be the same width and everything. But when I switch over to the "modern" lol original xbox it fills the 4:3 area perfectly.
Saturn and Mega Drive have borders as well. Neo Geo also has them, maybe a bit smaller. Some 2D Saturn games have very little borders. For DonPachi you can set an 'RGB Monitor' option and the it actually uses the entire frame. How fancy of them to basically include a 'PVM mode'. The only old console that has virtually no unused space is strangely enough the PC Engine.
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maxtherabbit
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by maxtherabbit »

ASDR wrote:
maxtherabbit wrote: I've read several threads discussing the issue on the dreamcast, but I thought it was odd that the other "old" consoles seem to be doing the exact same thing - the bars appear to be the same width and everything. But when I switch over to the "modern" lol original xbox it fills the 4:3 area perfectly.
Saturn and Mega Drive have borders as well. Neo Geo also has them, maybe a bit smaller. Some 2D Saturn games have very little borders. For DonPachi you can set an 'RGB Monitor' option and the it actually uses the entire frame. How fancy of them to basically include a 'PVM mode'. The only old console that has virtually no unused space is strangely enough the PC Engine.
interesting - so it's basically a built-in overscan compensation for consumer CRTs I guess
Dochartaigh
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Dochartaigh »

maxtherabbit wrote:I've read several threads discussing the issue on the dreamcast, but I thought it was odd that the other "old" consoles seem to be doing the exact same thing - the bars appear to be the same width and everything. But when I switch over to the "modern" lol original xbox it fills the 4:3 area perfectly.
Every console is going to have a slightly different width and height of it's picture - it's all about the hardware handles the video signal slightly differently from another console.

Normally, on an old-school CRT TV, you would never see any of this black area on the sides because the image was actually LARGER than what you were able to view on screen - so some small areas on all sides was in reality being cut off, and that slight area on the sides is called overscan (and built into most games) to compensate for this. This let most sources displayed on your old CRT look good.

On your plasma (I'm assuming this is a professional model of some sort from a while ago if you're running low-res SD content on it), and other professional grade CRT monitors like Sony PVM and BVM's we MUCH more commonly see the very edges of the picture (what was normally hidden by that overscan area) and we get pillarboxing (black bars, usually on the sides). The easy solution is to simply adjust the image of your monitor/TV/Plasma so it stretches the image all the way left to right so the screen is completely filled...

...the problem with this, as I first mentioned, is not all consoles are created equal - so what is a nice full-screen image on one console can leave a little bit of black on the left, or the right, or both on another console. You then adjust your monitor for that console and the other console can have important things like life bars and such cut off...you'll have to find a decent medium which works for all, and yes, it is a PITA.
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ASDR
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by ASDR »

Do I need lead-free solder if I do modwork on recent consoles etc.? I have a few different kinds of leaded solder, the usual 60/40 stuff, with flux, some have a bit of copper / silver in there as well. Don't really know much about the differences, seems to produce good joints just fine. More recent, non-retro consoles will use lead-free solder. I've heard you shouldn't mix solder chemistries. So if I were to do a repair job, replace some components, attach wires to terminals/pads, reflow a cracked connector etc., would I have problems if I use my usual types of leaded solder? Do I absolutely need to either use lead-free solder or thoroughly clean pads & terminals before I use leaded solder on these PCBs?
nmalinoski
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by nmalinoski »

ASDR wrote:Do I need lead-free solder if I do modwork on recent consoles etc.? I have a few different kinds of leaded solder, the usual 60/40 stuff, with flux, some have a bit of copper / silver in there as well. Don't really know much about the differences, seems to produce good joints just fine. More recent, non-retro consoles will use lead-free solder. I've heard you shouldn't mix solder chemistries. So if I were to do a repair job, replace some components, attach wires to terminals/pads, reflow a cracked connector etc., would I have problems if I use my usual types of leaded solder? Do I absolutely need to either use lead-free solder or thoroughly clean pads & terminals before I use leaded solder on these PCBs?
voultar mentions precisely this in his latest YouTube video (NESRGB install). Basically, no, you should not mix chemistries, in that you should not be adding leaded to unleaded, or vice versa, to install a component; however, there's no problem mixing if the goal is to clean and completely redo the joint. Once you clean the existing solder out of the joint, you can use whatever kind you want.
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maxtherabbit
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by maxtherabbit »

nmalinoski wrote:
ASDR wrote:Do I need lead-free solder if I do modwork on recent consoles etc.? I have a few different kinds of leaded solder, the usual 60/40 stuff, with flux, some have a bit of copper / silver in there as well. Don't really know much about the differences, seems to produce good joints just fine. More recent, non-retro consoles will use lead-free solder. I've heard you shouldn't mix solder chemistries. So if I were to do a repair job, replace some components, attach wires to terminals/pads, reflow a cracked connector etc., would I have problems if I use my usual types of leaded solder? Do I absolutely need to either use lead-free solder or thoroughly clean pads & terminals before I use leaded solder on these PCBs?
voultar mentions precisely this in his latest YouTube video (NESRGB install). Basically, no, you should not mix chemistries, in that you should not be adding leaded to unleaded, or vice versa, to install a component; however, there's no problem mixing if the goal is to clean and completely redo the joint. Once you clean the existing solder out of the joint, you can use whatever kind you want.
I strongly recommend just sucking all the existing solder out of lead-free joints and using leaded solder in it's place - lead-free sucks nuts to work with
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ASDR
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by ASDR »

All right, that's what I thought. I'd of course prefer to work with leaded solder, all the videos & pictures I've seen of lead-free makes me not want to touch it. One more Q, though. Often when you desolder, you start by adding fresh solder to a joint. Or when you want to remove two-terminal SMD components you add plenty of solder so you can quickly heat both terminals and get the component off the board. I guess I'd need some lead-free solder for that, before I wick up everything and start fresh with leaded solder?
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maxtherabbit
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by maxtherabbit »

ASDR wrote:All right, that's what I thought. I'd of course prefer to work with leaded solder, all the videos & pictures I've seen of lead-free makes me not want to touch it. One more Q, though. Often when you desolder, you start by adding fresh solder to a joint. Or when you want to remove two-terminal SMD components you add plenty of solder so you can quickly heat both terminals and get the component off the board. I guess I'd need some lead-free solder for that, before I wick up everything and start fresh with leaded solder?
no, you can mix them temporarily - it doesn't matter if you're going to clean the joint after removing the component
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maxtherabbit
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by maxtherabbit »

should I expect to see jailbars on a genesis 2 (VA3) + 32x + YPrPb cable?
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geiger9
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by geiger9 »

I got a PVM 14L5 today for free from my local CBC station. After two weeks of waiting to see what the nice lady who works in engineering could find, that's what she got. She said it powers on but warned me she didn't know how long it would last. Well when I got it home and powered it on, I saw no picture. None of the buttons I press on the front, save for degauss, make anything appear on the screen. I hooked up my SNES with composite and s-video (it's all I have at the moment) and I can hear audio but that's it. I don't consider myself a newbie when it comes to CRTs but I certainly know that I don't have the knowledge of most people on this board so humour me in my next question: is this something that can be fixed by adjusting the flyback? I popped off the case and I can see where the pots are on it.

Really hoping someone can help with this. I was so pumped for this but now I'm so disappointed.
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Einzelherz
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Einzelherz »

Step one, don't touch stuff inside.

Step two, take photos of everything. Take more.

Step three, get lucky with someone here being able to help.

I had a monitor come DOA and I went through the same range of emotions (except I'd paid $200). It turned out that as they shipped it upside down, the flyback's weight cracked the board around it so no power was getting out. I soldered jumper wires around and I got a screen.

When you power it on do you hear a pop/sizzle sound of a CRT starting up? You said pressing degauss makes the screen move, that implies you're getting power to the screen at least.
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geiger9
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by geiger9 »

Einzelherz wrote:Step one, don't touch stuff inside.

Step two, take photos of everything. Take more.

Step three, get lucky with someone here being able to help.

I had a monitor come DOA and I went through the same range of emotions (except I'd paid $200). It turned out that as they shipped it upside down, the flyback's weight cracked the board around it so no power was getting out. I soldered jumper wires around and I got a screen.

When you power it on do you hear a pop/sizzle sound of a CRT starting up? You said pressing degauss makes the screen move, that implies you're getting power to the screen at least.
If I had paid $200 and it didn't work, I'm be irritable for months.

When I power it on, I do hear the sound you're describing. I guess the degauss sound is part of that. When said the degauss button works, I mean it makes the sound. I don't see anything happening on the tube.

I haven't google'd this as of this typing but could I buy a probe to measure large amounts of voltage and confirm that voltage is reaching the correct places?
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Syntax
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Syntax »

Can you hear the classic high voltage noise a flyback makes?
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Einzelherz
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Einzelherz »

Off the top of my head it sounds like the tube is not getting power. Does any static form on the front of the screen?

If you have the case off you can do a visual check at the back of the tube to see if you notice any glow near the guns.
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geiger9
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by geiger9 »

Syntax wrote:Can you hear the classic high voltage noise a flyback makes?
I'm not sure. Is it a low buzzing sound? If so, then yes.
Einzelherz wrote:Off the top of my head it sounds like the tube is not getting power. Does any static form on the front of the screen?

If you have the case off you can do a visual check at the back of the tube to see if you notice any glow near the guns.
Yes, there is static on the front. I never noticed any glow around the guns but a user on the subreddit r/crtgaming says that with the Sony models, it is not very apparent. I haven't yet had the time to put it in a dark room and turn the set on.

I was really keen on buying a probe to pinpoint where the problem was but holy heck, a Fluke brand 40kV probe is $240! WOW! And I thought getting the best picture quality out of a game console was expensive - troubleshooting CRTs are another problem!
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Einzelherz
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by Einzelherz »

A $15 voltmeter from literally anywhere will suffice.

That you're getting static on the front of the tube is a good sign.
ryuuji
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Re: Questions that do not deserve a thread

Post by ryuuji »

I was thinking to clean (whiten) my yellowed crt pc monitor (eizo f77s https://www.quantelectronic.de/Monitore ... _16730.htm ) but I have never took the the whole casing off a crt tv/monitor. Ofc the back side is easy but what about the front bezel + buttons (they are big so they need to be whitened also). Is it very difficult to remove the front bezel?

Thanks in advance!
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