I have a JP Nintendo 64 modded for RGB and I get perfect picture on the same model directly from the console to the monitor.lewolfeur wrote:Buyed a ossc 1,6 and make some test.
Passing through the OSSC 240p signal to 1990R the n64 is now stable signal and neogeo is also normal, but still very small wave at top and less pronounced without csync.
https://imgur.com/a/HnGjx
Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
It's a bummer that you couldn't get that AFC circuitry to do the job, but at the end the result is what matters the most! Thanks for giving a proper closure to this very interesting threadSamIAm wrote:Since this is back from the dead, let it be known: An Extron 160xi with serration-pulse-removal enabled can take sync stripped directly from the PCE's composite video via LM1881 and output a signal that will result in a normal, accurate picture on an HTM-2050R2.
Also it won't matter now, but still let me link to a video of an actual VHS recording which confirms that the symptoms are the same to what plagues the PCE and other consoles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMA5aH_olAQ
Pesky analog tech!
Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
Nice will buy one for test.SamIAm wrote: 3. Get a very particular model of Extron and an LM1881.
In the end, I went with #3 because it was non-invasive and I was able to pick up two 160xi units for cheap. 160xi's even have a +5V power rail, so I was able to install the LM1881 internally and have an RCA cable running out of it to hook up the PCE's composite video.
You modified the j20/40 jumpers ?
https://i.imgur.com/wIxaf3D.png
Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
4. or test my solution with extron 580xi and my own Csync correction.SamIAm wrote: 1. Feed the internal H/V syncs into an Extron.
2. Build that Japanese fellow's circuit to re-shape and re-time the internal H/V syncs, combining them if your monitor doesn't have separate H/V sync inputs.
3. Get a very particular model of Extron and an LM1881.
you can see the prototype on this video:
https://youtu.be/9LhW_ZDLgw0
PCBs are incoming from china...
Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
Interesting, does this solution only work with Extron 580xi? It involves installing a PCB inside the Extron? Also will this be a universal solution for this problem, for example for people like me with the JVC DT-V monitors?mimix1004 wrote:4. or test my solution with extron 580xi and my own Csync correction.SamIAm wrote: 1. Feed the internal H/V syncs into an Extron.
2. Build that Japanese fellow's circuit to re-shape and re-time the internal H/V syncs, combining them if your monitor doesn't have separate H/V sync inputs.
3. Get a very particular model of Extron and an LM1881.
you can see the prototype on this video:
https://youtu.be/9LhW_ZDLgw0
PCBs are incoming from china...
Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
i don't know... i have made my test only for my monitor and my N64+pce
But lewolfeur will test with a neogeo on the same monitor.
PCBs are arrived and all is functionnal. but my 3d printer is fall in default this morning i can't do the housing for the moment...
But lewolfeur will test with a neogeo on the same monitor.
PCBs are arrived and all is functionnal. but my 3d printer is fall in default this morning i can't do the housing for the moment...
Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
Can you post photo of the whole chain? I'm looking forward to finding out more about this
Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
All is done ! now i'll send the 2nd prototype to Lewolfeur and he will test on his Neogeo !
Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
Can you explain a little what's happening there to the signal ?
Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
yes, look at this picture:
when you look at the little pulse up to the number three, this pulse is not present on pce and n64.
my prototype will synchronise a pulse generation on the sync signal for generate this pulse exactly with right timings for displaying a stabilized picture on my ikegami monitor.
but with this pulse, there is a little wave at the top of the screen. The extron will remove this wave with a completely changed sync signal, but this sync signal can only be generated with my correction with the extra pulse...
i'll made a video on youtube about that.
when you look at the little pulse up to the number three, this pulse is not present on pce and n64.
my prototype will synchronise a pulse generation on the sync signal for generate this pulse exactly with right timings for displaying a stabilized picture on my ikegami monitor.
but with this pulse, there is a little wave at the top of the screen. The extron will remove this wave with a completely changed sync signal, but this sync signal can only be generated with my correction with the extra pulse...
i'll made a video on youtube about that.
Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
the only problem wich i have always have with this prototype: sometime, when the screen is bright, the display jump.
it's caused by the extron but i don't understand why.
it's caused by the extron but i don't understand why.
Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
So, the Extron is sitting last before the monitor ? The Extron does output TTL sync and RGB levels. You can probably fix the sync drop by adding some resistors and/or caps between the Extron and the monitor.
Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
maybe... i shoould test this week end...
Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
Is it normal to have different voltages for Hsync and Vsync , say 4.3 and 4.9v respectively?
Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
With the Extron 580xi, does having the SERR switch turned on not fix the problem with the PCE on your Ikegami? That's all it takes with the 160xi. I can't remember what the settings of the other switches were, but I can check.
What exact model of Ikegami do you have?
If you would ever like to share it, I'd love to see your circuit-design. I was considering trying to make something that adds a pulse myself, but quit once I had the Extron solution.
Hiroworship, who posted earlier in this thread and owns an HTM-2050R2 as well, also got his PCE to display using an Extron 160xi. The discovery that this works is really his.
What exact model of Ikegami do you have?
If you would ever like to share it, I'd love to see your circuit-design. I was considering trying to make something that adds a pulse myself, but quit once I had the Extron solution.
Sorry that I missed this. I didn't touch any of the jumpers. If you like, I can check to see what they are.lewolfeur wrote:Nice will buy one for test.SamIAm wrote: 3. Get a very particular model of Extron and an LM1881.
In the end, I went with #3 because it was non-invasive and I was able to pick up two 160xi units for cheap. 160xi's even have a +5V power rail, so I was able to install the LM1881 internally and have an RCA cable running out of it to hook up the PCE's composite video.
You modified the j20/40 jumpers ?
https://i.imgur.com/wIxaf3D.png
Hiroworship, who posted earlier in this thread and owns an HTM-2050R2 as well, also got his PCE to display using an Extron 160xi. The discovery that this works is really his.
Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
As I'm not the most tech person I need to check a thing here, firstly does this only work if you connect the PCE to 160xi in one particular way? Or can I just run it through a SyncStrike (which is basically just a LM881), feed the output to Extron 160xi with SERR on and then it's fixed?!SamIAm wrote:3. Get a very particular model of Extron and an LM1881.
In the end, I went with #3 because it was non-invasive and I was able to pick up two 160xi units for cheap. 160xi's even have a +5V power rail, so I was able to install the LM1881 internally and have an RCA cable running out of it to hook up the PCE's composite video.
An 160xi is really cheap on eBay, I'm ordering one straight away if I know it'll work that way and without any modifications to my PCE. Otherwise mimix's solution also looks good. This is all quite exciting for me
Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
In my case, yes, this worked. My signal-chain is like this: PCE composite video to LM1881 input -> LM1881 output through 330 ohm resistor to 160xi Green input -> 160xi Csync output to monitor. Meanwhile, the PCE's RGB signals are going directly to the monitor.werk91 wrote: As I'm not the most tech person I need to check a thing here, firstly does this only work if you connect the PCE to 160xi in one particular way? Or can I just run it through a SyncStrike (which is basically just a LM881), feed the output to Extron 160xi with SERR on and then it's fixed?!
Three things to note:
- I put the LM1881 output into the Extron's Green input because IIRC the unit won't work unless it detects something coming into a video signal input. It strips the sync all the same.
- The Extron's Green input is terminated with 75 ohms and is rated for a video signal that's max 1.5Vp-p. Putting the LM1881's 5V output on Green directly would draw a lot of current from the LM1881 and possibly put excess voltage on the Green input. A 330 ohm resistor in series here brings the voltage down to about 0.9V. If you don't want to put in a resistor like this, I think you'd be fine putting the PCE's RGB signals through the Extron and the LM1881's output on the Extron's Hsync input.
- This solution has only been tried on an Ikegami HTM-2050R2. Other monitors that use different circuitry might not respond the same way. A tiny amount of distortion is still visible in the HBLANK area with this, so the 160xi is not necessarily rectifying the sync 100%.
Oh, and I have no idea if this works with an N64. My Ikegami doesn't have a composite video input, and I still need to RGB mod my N64
Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
all of my N64 are modded.SamIAm wrote:Oh, and I have no idea if this works with an N64. My Ikegami doesn't have a composite video input, and I still need to RGB mod my N64werk91 wrote: As I'm not the most tech person I need to check a thing here, firstly does this only work if you connect the PCE to 160xi in one particular way? Or can I just run it through a SyncStrike (which is basically just a LM881), feed the output to Extron 160xi with SERR on and then it's fixed?!
i have test all of mod wich exist , and all produce the same result than composite on my ikegami 1990R
Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
I got myself a Sony YR-421 S-Video to RGB converter, recapped it, and finally finished my adapter cable* so I could hook it up to my HTM-2050R2.
The results: N64, PC-FX, and 3DO all work fine with the sync going directly to the monitor, at least at a glance. I'll have to test a few more games that cover more video modes just to be sure. N64 looked like it had flagging at one point during a black transition screen after a game loaded on my Everdrive.
*If you're thinking of picking one of these up, know that the wires in the JP RGB21 connector are crimped into the connector, not soldered. You'll have to build an adapter or cut the connector off and wire something else in if you have anything other than a JP RGB21 input.
The results: N64, PC-FX, and 3DO all work fine with the sync going directly to the monitor, at least at a glance. I'll have to test a few more games that cover more video modes just to be sure. N64 looked like it had flagging at one point during a black transition screen after a game loaded on my Everdrive.
*If you're thinking of picking one of these up, know that the wires in the JP RGB21 connector are crimped into the connector, not soldered. You'll have to build an adapter or cut the connector off and wire something else in if you have anything other than a JP RGB21 input.
Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
By request, here are a few pics.
The jumpers inside my 160xi. I didn't change any of them myself:
A wider shot of the inside. The electrical tape sarcophagus is hiding an LM1881 on a small PCB, which is wired in the totally standard way other than a 330 ohm resistor in series with the output. Notice the wires going to the 160xi's power supply, which outputs +5V (and -5V, so be careful), and the other wires going to where Green would normally come in from the D-sub 15 port. I used these to connect to the PCB pins. Finally, you can see a wire going out of the side heat vent of the case, which is where I bring in the composite video signal. The connector on the other end is a cheap RCA plug. By the way, the SERR switch is the only one in the "on" position on the other side of the unit.
Finally, the result - a nice, straight image with the SuperGrafx game Aldynes. Since some systems actually don't play nice with the 160xi, I keep connectors handy to quickly re-attach things so that composite video can go directly to the monitor.
The jumpers inside my 160xi. I didn't change any of them myself:
A wider shot of the inside. The electrical tape sarcophagus is hiding an LM1881 on a small PCB, which is wired in the totally standard way other than a 330 ohm resistor in series with the output. Notice the wires going to the 160xi's power supply, which outputs +5V (and -5V, so be careful), and the other wires going to where Green would normally come in from the D-sub 15 port. I used these to connect to the PCB pins. Finally, you can see a wire going out of the side heat vent of the case, which is where I bring in the composite video signal. The connector on the other end is a cheap RCA plug. By the way, the SERR switch is the only one in the "on" position on the other side of the unit.
Finally, the result - a nice, straight image with the SuperGrafx game Aldynes. Since some systems actually don't play nice with the 160xi, I keep connectors handy to quickly re-attach things so that composite video can go directly to the monitor.
Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
Thx for the photo and explain.
My power board are not the same one. ( the 5v and ground are red and black from the 4 pin connector ?)
I see two cable from lm1881 a black and grey/white one to d-sub15 , there on green and ground ?
At the back the only bnc is on H ?
My power board are not the same one. ( the 5v and ground are red and black from the 4 pin connector ?)
I see two cable from lm1881 a black and grey/white one to d-sub15 , there on green and ground ?
At the back the only bnc is on H ?
Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
Nice to see this thread, as I recently picked up one of these monitors myself last week (in particular, the Ikegami HTM-2005R) and also was experiencing the upper 1/3 of the screen's wavy image that SamIAm posted on the last page, mainly on PCB's. Since I had the day off today, figured I'd play around with it and was able to achieve the same results using 2 Extron processors. I might be able to cut down to one, but I'm still messing around with it. I used an SC210 for just the sync processing dip, then I hooked it into a 201 Rxi w/ ADSP (all I activated was the SERR on switch as per this thread, thanks for the tips guys). Cleaned it up perfectly.
Apologies for the crappy phone pics.
Apologies for the crappy phone pics.
Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
This thread is definitely giving me hope. My 160xi is arriving tomorrow and I can not wait to try it It'll be the best start to the weekend if it does the job ! Thanks for all the detailed photos and explanations everyone
Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
@STG: if you don't mind me asking: what does the SC210 up front accomplish that the 201 after it can't do ?
Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
Ah, I had it in the chain as I originally was trying splitting the sync, but just left it in when I decided to try the 201 Rxi. I've had mixed results using the 201 (and 202 and 203) Rxi in the past, mainly that it would introduce noise into the picture on the XM29 & BVM when I had the DDSP dip off. Interestingly enough, that wasn't the case at all with the Ikegami CRT.
But after I wrote that post I took the SC210 out of the chain and realized it was redundant... probably should have edited that now that you mention it. So in the end, yep, all you need to use is the 201 Rxi.
But after I wrote that post I took the SC210 out of the chain and realized it was redundant... probably should have edited that now that you mention it. So in the end, yep, all you need to use is the 201 Rxi.
Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
@STG: that Mushi pic is so nice but also makes me wonder - do Cave CV1000 boards run at 60Hz squarely?
(sorry for going ot)
(sorry for going ot)
Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
I can happily confirm that the Extron 160xi is perfect for the JVC DT-V monitor and PC Engine! Basically all the skew is gone and what's left is not noticeable during the game, next will be to try out a Neo Geo CMVS...fingers crossed! Once I adapt the setup around the Extron that should be it all done Here's a photo of the result.
Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
Has anyone tried this on a Sony BVM-A?
Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
you can found my own solution there:
http://www.nicekits.fr/perso/SYNCH-CORR ... -1990R.zip
you'll find source files with programs, schematic and pcb for eagle cad soft, a pinout and functionnal diagram and two example of use with BNC or SCART.
my solution works for me but all of components are used at there maximum of speed.
and sometime, on white screen one PCE you can have jumps of screen on the PCE, but that depend of the extron or the reactivity of NAND includes inside.
YOU MUST use really really fast NAND. and YOU MUST use X2 capacitor for the LM1881.
if someone want to test, i have 8 blank PCB in stock
http://www.nicekits.fr/perso/SYNCH-CORR ... -1990R.zip
you'll find source files with programs, schematic and pcb for eagle cad soft, a pinout and functionnal diagram and two example of use with BNC or SCART.
my solution works for me but all of components are used at there maximum of speed.
and sometime, on white screen one PCE you can have jumps of screen on the PCE, but that depend of the extron or the reactivity of NAND includes inside.
YOU MUST use really really fast NAND. and YOU MUST use X2 capacitor for the LM1881.
if someone want to test, i have 8 blank PCB in stock
Re: Wonky sync, AFC, and an Ikegami HTM-2050R2: Help wanted
Hi all, sorry to resurrect the thread, but I'm having basically the same issue as people here, just with a different source: VGA out from PC. I'm using an Ikegami HTM-2005r, and I am using an Nvidia 980Ti with Windows 10. My setup is:
VGA out from the DVI-I port, to an Extron RGB 192V. The 192V is setup with serration edges on and DSSP on. From there, I am using BNC cables to a Crosspoint, and from the Crosspoint to the Ikegami. The crosspoint is set to 75ohm for this input.
I used CRU to create a custom resolution for 240P. When it comes to this part, I have no idea what I'm doing, but here's a screenshot of the custom resolution:
Whether using RGsB or RGBS, I have the same problem with 240P - the picture is nice and stable, but the top edge is "wavy." Here's a picture:
On my other TV, a M20M2U, which is also being fed by the same chain, the picture does not have this problem.
As an aside- at 720P and up, using this same setup, I get the colors coming through fine, with one glaring problem - some of the things that should be black, are turning up purple! Again, this is with RGsB or RGBS. Anyone have any insight into this problem too?
Thanks all for any help, I greatly appreciate it!
VGA out from the DVI-I port, to an Extron RGB 192V. The 192V is setup with serration edges on and DSSP on. From there, I am using BNC cables to a Crosspoint, and from the Crosspoint to the Ikegami. The crosspoint is set to 75ohm for this input.
I used CRU to create a custom resolution for 240P. When it comes to this part, I have no idea what I'm doing, but here's a screenshot of the custom resolution:
Whether using RGsB or RGBS, I have the same problem with 240P - the picture is nice and stable, but the top edge is "wavy." Here's a picture:
On my other TV, a M20M2U, which is also being fed by the same chain, the picture does not have this problem.
As an aside- at 720P and up, using this same setup, I get the colors coming through fine, with one glaring problem - some of the things that should be black, are turning up purple! Again, this is with RGsB or RGBS. Anyone have any insight into this problem too?
Thanks all for any help, I greatly appreciate it!