Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

The place for all discussion on gaming hardware
User avatar
Syntax
Posts: 1774
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:10 am
Location: Australia

Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by Syntax »

@Borti when you get a chance can you upload the firmware changes separately so I can test which one fixes my issues.

I'm referring to



Post subject:
Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Ok, good to read I was recently tested two different firmware builds:
- one where I simply added another fitter assignment
- one where I where all registers are latched on the rising edge instead of the negative

Also if you can give me an area of a game that AUTO should be off it would help testing a lot.
borti4938

Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by borti4938 »

kel wrote:I've checked all three connections for continuity against the PCB layout diagram and also for any possible shorts right up to the FPGA pins and can't find anything wrong. I really don't have a clue at the moment why the board won't recognize any controller input.

EDIT: Just for clarification sake I'm reading 47ohms from the middle pin of controller port 1 all the way to FPGA pin 127 so I can't see how else this could be connection related.
Could you also check, if the 50MHz output of U8 has a proper connection to the FPGA.
If this is also not the problem, I have no further clue then. Then I would like to send you over a replacement board.
Syntax wrote:@Borti when you get a chance can you upload the firmware changes separately so I can test which one fixes my issues.
Both versions are on GitHub.
- one where I simply added another fitter assignment -> master branch (assignment hasn't an effect on the fw-build)
- one where I where all registers are latched on the rising edge instead of the negative -> dev_tests branch

borti4938 wrote:
Unseen wrote:
borti4938 wrote:Edit: I changed the register latching to positive edge. This is not in accordance to the initial DAC project but in the way as Unseen does it.
Please note that I'm cheating in the top-level module: "VClockI <= not VClock;"
Cheater :roll:
Haven't noticed that :? Thanks for mentioning.
Yesterday I took a look onto the relationship between VCLK and DSYNC and Data. It seems to me that everything is latched on the posedge of VCLK. After a rising edge it takes 5ns for DSYNC to change the value and 6ns for the data to change the value. This means the values change 5ns to 4ns before the falling edge of VCLK.
So I will probably go for the posedge implementation. I will also see how I can use that for proper input timing assignments.
kel
Posts: 227
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:11 pm

Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by kel »

I've checked all the connections from U8 to the FPGA pins and also Vcc and Gnd with a multimeter and they all have good connections although for some reason I can't see 50Mhz on FPGA pin 24 with the oscilloscope even though FPGA pin 28 is outputting 3.3v. Maybe a dud oscillator?
borti4938

Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by borti4938 »

Seems like. Unfortunately I don't have any left at home. :(
If you want me to replace it, please let me know and I will order a new one!

Meanwhile, if you can build the firmware by your own (just the hdl code), then you can test to change this line here into

Code: Select all

  .inclk0(VCLK),
In that way you don't use U8 anymore but I'm not sure if the timings for controller sniffing are correct but should be close.

Meanwhile I updated the fw-builds in the dev_tests branch with new timing constraints added. In my N64 it works quite well. Deblur estimation is more stable, which is a good sign to me :)
kel
Posts: 227
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:11 pm

Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by kel »

Nah, don't worry about it. I'll order some and replace it, can get them next working day and will need some sooner or later anyway. Thanks for the offer though, appreciate it.

Unfortunately my computer is a mess right now and I don't even have 15GB spare for the software. Need to reformat the whole thing, start from scratch and re-install everything that I need. Probably quicker to replace the crystal than tackle that job at the moment :) I'll keep this method in mind as an alternative though, cheers.

Great, I'll give the new build a try and let you know if deblur estimation works any better for me on Ocarina of time.
User avatar
Syntax
Posts: 1774
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:10 am
Location: Australia

Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by Syntax »

Flashed the latest 5M240ZT100C4.pof and its working fine :)
Ikaruga11
Posts: 1454
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:32 pm

Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by Ikaruga11 »

Borti, I'm really excited about this N64 RGB OSD Menu of yours. It'll give people who just want to play on a CRT all the same options of the Ultra HDMI with no plastic needing to be cut. :D Thank you.
magus90
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 4:15 pm

Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by magus90 »

Hey Everyone,

I am new to the whole Deblur scene, and i have been reading post after post trying to understand just how it all works and the current state of compatibility. I am going to be getting a Tim Worthington board and changing out my current RGB board just so i can use this deblur feature as it looks incredible. I play on a PVM so i really have no need for UltradHDMI.

I guess my main question if anyone would be kind enough to help me out. How is compatibility at the moment? Do most games work fine or do some have to be fiddled with? I know some are better without it so i am installing a switch.

I was trying to understand all the tech talk, but a lot of it seems to be going over my head.

Thanks in advance for anyone willing to help a deblur noob out. Pretty incredible how all these years later people are able to make break throughs like this to breath new life into these old systems.
leonk
Posts: 1080
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:29 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by leonk »

I have 20L2 PVM and you really have to struggle to see the deblur effect - PVMs are just great at "fixing" N64 crap output.

But OSSC / XRGB - night and day between deblur on and off.
kel
Posts: 227
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:11 pm

Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by kel »

magus90 wrote:I guess my main question if anyone would be kind enough to help me out. How is compatibility at the moment? Do most games work fine or do some have to be fiddled with? I know some are better without it so i am installing a switch.
No need to install a switch in case you find a game that you would rather turn it off for. Just add 2 wires from the N64 PIF chip to the RGB board and you can turn it on or off anytime using the controller.
GojiFan90
Posts: 92
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:28 am

Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by GojiFan90 »

Is there anyone in the United States offering installation services for the Tim Worthington mod?
User avatar
citrus3000psi
Posts: 668
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2013 11:56 pm
Location: Indiana

Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by citrus3000psi »

GojiFan90 wrote:Is there anyone in the United States offering installation services for the Tim Worthington mod?
I do. But I'm swamped with current customers and personal projects. If you can't find anybody else you can hit me up and I can try to work you in.
magus90
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2016 4:15 pm

Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by magus90 »

kel wrote:
magus90 wrote:I guess my main question if anyone would be kind enough to help me out. How is compatibility at the moment? Do most games work fine or do some have to be fiddled with? I know some are better without it so i am installing a switch.
No need to install a switch in case you find a game that you would rather turn it off for. Just add 2 wires from the N64 PIF chip to the RGB board and you can turn it on or off anytime using the controller.
Interesting, had no idea. Is there a certain button combo or something to turn it on/off? Thanks a bunch
leonk wrote:I have 20L2 PVM and you really have to struggle to see the deblur effect - PVMs are just great at "fixing" N64 crap output.

But OSSC / XRGB - night and day between deblur on and off.
I had a 20L5 but i just traded down for a 20L2, PVM's really are amazing when it comes to retro systems with RGB. Good to know it isn't really necessary.
User avatar
mikejmoffitt
Posts: 629
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 7:26 am
Location: Tokyo, Japan

Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by mikejmoffitt »

It was even very visible on my KV-27S42 consumer trinitron. Your 20L2 might need to be focused or converged if you can not see the difference.
Image
User avatar
andykara2003
Posts: 1338
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:26 pm

Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by andykara2003 »

I agree - you can easily see it on my consumer Trinitron too. Much prefer it off though.
leonk
Posts: 1080
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:29 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by leonk »

mikejmoffitt wrote:It was even very visible on my KV-27S42 consumer trinitron. Your 20L2 might need to be focused or converged if you can not see the difference.
My 20L2 was NIB. Convergence and focus is perfect on it. Fully tested / calibrated with external professional signal generator.

The only place where I see slight difference is text. It's really splitting hairs at this point.
User avatar
andykara2003
Posts: 1338
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:26 pm

Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by andykara2003 »

That's odd - it's definitely visible on my CRTs. New in box!! how on earth did you pick that one up? I'm guessing you're in the US? You'd never find something like that here in the UK.
User avatar
Syntax
Posts: 1774
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:10 am
Location: Australia

Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by Syntax »

The only significant change when viewing on a crt for me is the pixel shift.
If not for that I probably wouldn't notice it.
leonk
Posts: 1080
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:29 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by leonk »

andykara2003 wrote:That's odd - it's definitely visible on my CRTs. New in box!! how on earth did you pick that one up? I'm guessing you're in the US? You'd never find something like that here in the UK.
I'm in Canada. Got it from an editing studio. They purchased 2 (1 as backup!!) I got the backup. PVM box still had the original shipping labels from Japan.
User avatar
andykara2003
Posts: 1338
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:26 pm

Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by andykara2003 »

leonk wrote:I'm in Canada. Got it from an editing studio. They purchased 2 (1 as backup!!) I got the backup. PVM box still had the original shipping labels from Japan.
Damn - great find!
strayan
Posts: 671
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:33 pm

Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by strayan »

I've got the cash to buy an N64 with ultrahdmi mod to play The New Tetris but I'm not sure whether I need a NTSC or PAL console.

I want to run the game at 720p (with integer scaling) but I read that some PAL games are 288p while the NTSC versions are 240p and I assume the former doesn't scale as well as the latter.

Given I don't know whether the PAL version of The New Tetris runs at 240p or 288p am I right to think it would be wiser to opt for an NTSC console so I get a clean integer scale?
kel
Posts: 227
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:11 pm

Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by kel »

magus90 wrote:
kel wrote:
magus90 wrote:I guess my main question if anyone would be kind enough to help me out. How is compatibility at the moment? Do most games work fine or do some have to be fiddled with? I know some are better without it so i am installing a switch.
No need to install a switch in case you find a game that you would rather turn it off for. Just add 2 wires from the N64 PIF chip to the RGB board and you can turn it on or off anytime using the controller.
Interesting, had no idea. Is there a certain button combo or something to turn it on/off? Thanks a bunch
The button combinations are documented here on borti's github: https://github.com/borti4938/n64rgb/blo ... N64RGB.pdf

You can even change them to something else and build the firmware yourself or if you do not wish to build the firmware yourself for any reason you can make a request to borti as described here: https://github.com/borti4938/n64rgb/blo ... .README.md
strayan wrote:I've got the cash to buy an N64 with ultrahdmi mod to play The New Tetris but I'm not sure whether I need a NTSC or PAL console.

I want to run the game at 720p (with integer scaling) but I read that some PAL games are 288p while the NTSC versions are 240p and I assume the former doesn't scale as well as the latter.

Given I don't know whether the PAL version of The New Tetris runs at 240p or 288p am I right to think it would be wiser to opt for an NTSC console so I get a clean integer scale?
The UltraHDMI has a PAL stretch/fix feature so the only difference between that and a 240p NTSC version of a game should be the refresh rate as far as I know although if the game has been converted to 288p without borders then it's possible that the scaling could be different from the NTSC version also, IDK. Saying that though, I can't say much about the integer scaling option as I haven't really used it much but in the normal scaling mode the scanlines in 50hz are uneven, more so in 720p than 1080p. which is not the case in 60hz so probably best to go for a NTSC console just for this reason unless it's fixed soon with an update.
User avatar
andykara2003
Posts: 1338
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:26 pm

Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by andykara2003 »

strayan wrote:I'm not sure whether I need a NTSC or PAL console.
I expect you already know this but just in case, lot of N64 games including some of the best run slowly in PAL - e.g. PAL Mario 64, Mario kart 64 & Ocarina of time all feel like you're playing through treacle in comparison to NTSC. Even the ones that have had the speed optimised (i.e. Rare's games) tend to run at a lower frame rate - the drop from 30fps to 25fps is quite a big hit at these numbers.
User avatar
unmaker
Posts: 139
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2016 7:27 am
Contact:

Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by unmaker »

Spoiler
Image
This is the first time I've come across such a pad. I'll have no issue hand soldering the leads but I haven't got a clue what I'm supposed to do with this center section. Could anyone give me some general guidance as to how I'm supposed to solder this area? Does this require a hot air station?
borti4938

Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by borti4938 »

This is for the FPGAs exposed pad and has to be connected to GND. Easiest way to solder that is with hot air. With a normal soldering iron you can apply solder to this footprint pad, give some flux on it, place the FPGA and reflow it from bottom. This works, too.
This board went never into public and was a prototype. Newer versions have no solder mask at the bottom side of the vias so that reflowing from bottom is easier.
User avatar
unmaker
Posts: 139
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2016 7:27 am
Contact:

Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by unmaker »

borti4938 wrote:This is for the FPGAs exposed pad and has to be connected to GND. Easiest way to solder that is with hot air. With a normal soldering iron you can apply solder to this footprint pad, give some flux on it, place the FPGA and reflow it from bottom. This works, too.
This board went never into public and was a prototype. Newer versions have no solder mask at the bottom side of the vias so that reflowing from bottom is easier.
Thank you very much borti! I can't wait to try out your board, you're amazing!
mybook4
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:35 pm

Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by mybook4 »

Thanks again Borti for the great work with the N64 Advanced board. I'm very happy with the board and am interested in updating the firmware to the February 18th commit (i.e. in n64rgb/advancedRGBmod/firmware/output_files/10cl010ye144/n64a_10cl010ye144.jic).

Although I have flashed AVR microcontrollers many times, I am new to FPGA programming/flashing. I have an Altera USB Blaster clone (one linked to earlier in the thread), have installed Quartus Prime Programmer, downloaded the JIC file for the 10CL010YE144, and have followed the programming instructions (in pages 28-29) of Guide_N64A_n_N64RGB.pdf.

When clicking "start" in Quartus, I am receiving the error "209040 Can't access JTAG chain". I have tried programming both in Windows and Linux (as root). I have re-seated the programmer ribbon cable on both the N64 Advanced board as well as the programmer. I have tried programming with the N64 power on and with the N64 power off. My N64 advanced board is connected to both the 3.3v and 5v rails of the N64.

Any ideas?
User avatar
Syntax
Posts: 1774
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:10 am
Location: Australia

Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by Syntax »

If you cant access the Jtag chain then your blaster cable is not installed to the N64 board correctly.

I found this out when I got impatient last week and cut down a HDD IDE cable to use. Had a loose wire.

If you get stuck out follow FBX's guide
http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html
User avatar
Kez
Posts: 818
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:09 am

Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by Kez »

Hi Borti - quick question - if I flash the N64A test firmware, do the jumpers get ignored completely or do they need to be in a specific state (e.g. all open)? Thanks!

Also, has anyone ever tried the Hori pad mini with N64A? For some reason, the commands for turning de-blur on and off almost never work with that pad. I am not sure if it is an issue with my pad specifically, or the pad is different in some other way. It works perfectly in games. Sometimes if I keep pressing all the relevant buttons the blur will change, but it is very rare.
borti4938

Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by borti4938 »

Use the jumpers as like as in the non-test branch. Your jumper setting acts like a default if the config word in the flash is not valid. You can also load from your jumper set via the menu.

Just test with the menu. In the menu you'll have the controller reading word on the main page. ATM it's my test output but you can use that to see if the output reading is stable with your Hori pad. You may also compare that to a normal one. Personally, I don't have such a pad.
Post Reply