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 Post subject: LCD Motion Blur Reduction Topic, and Shmups >60fps List
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:45 am 



Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 10
Hi guys. Since CRT's are slowly dying, and some people including me don't really like the motion blur that comes with an lcd when bullets in shmups are moving at high speed over the screen or when the background is scrolling fast....

Basically this thread is for raising awareness that there are some possibilities to mitigate motion blur on an lcd to get a tad nearer to a crt in terms of motion clarity
Also hopefully some devs see this and no longer hardlock the framerate to 60fps in shmups.

First I want to say thanks to blurbusters.com, for the huge amount of technical details, ressources and articles that gave me an in-depth understanding of the whole topic.
Most of the info in the summary below will be found in some form or another on this site, so I recommend everyone to take a look at their articles who want to further immerse in this topic.

So how does motion blur look, and what are the difference compared to a crt?
Image

Ok, so how do I reduce this this problem?

Basically with modern LCD's the major solution to this problem is:

- Higher Refresh Rate e.g 120hz,144hz...

But this does only work with newer games, that support this high refreshrates and which are not framelocked at 60fps.

So, how does a higher refresh rate reduce blur?

Lcd\Led Monitors are based on the sample and hold technique. Basically when you have 60fps, one frame has a duration of 1/60fps = ~16ms
The leds hold the frame for this amount of time, and then change to the next.
This is what generates the motion blur for the human eye.
When you have a higher refresh rate, e.g 120hz the perceived motion blur is cut in half since the sample and hold delay is now only 1/120fps = ~8ms

When you take a look at the graphic above, you'll see it improves quite a lot. But it is still not on crt level which has a picture persistence of just 1.4ms due to phosphor glow.
It flickers, but motion blur is kinda non-existent because of that flicker.

However you can still improve it a bit further, by using the following feature:

- Backlight Strobing

Backlight Strobing

It basically turns the backlight from the screen off for a certain amount of time for an ongoing frame, producing a crt like flicker.
This feature is called Lightboost, Blur Reduction, or Ultra Low Motion Blur(Nvidia cards only) depending on the monitor you have.
Most of the time this feature is only available at 120hz Refresh Rate or more, so you can't use it with older games or games that are framelocked at 60fps.
Some monitors allow for single strobing (Backlight strobing at 60hz), however this flickers more notably than a crt with 60hz
To get a list of supported monitors for this feature:
https://www.blurbusters.com/faq/120hz-monitors/
The shorter the strobe light flash, the more clearer the motion but the more screen brightness you will lose.

Black Frame Insertion

Good news on this one. It can be used for old games that are run on an emulator. Groovymame and retroarch support it perfectly.
Since the Framerate is locked on older Spritebase shmups and you can't really do anything about it, this is a nice solution to still get your blur reduction fix.
Basically your screen refresh rate is 120hz, but you'll spread out the 60fps while rendering, each 2nd frame is a completely black picture.
Screen brightness is reduced to 50%, however motion blur is also reduced quite significantly.
You can combine this feature with Backlight strobing for even more blur reduction.


The list

I'm trying to compile a list of shmups for PC to give an overview of which games are framelocked and which games natively support more than 60fps, so that screens with 120hz or more can be used for blur reduction.
Hopefully this list will grow a bit in the future with more shmups that are not tied to 60fps.



So, if you know any shmups on steam that are framelocked or not framelocked, please tell me, so I can add it to the list.
A good way to find out: Turn Vsync off in the control panel of your graphics card, activate a framecounter in steam or use something like fraps.
Set your screen Refreshrate to 120hz or more.
If the framecounter in the game still says 60fps after that, or the game is running at turbo speed, it is locked/tied to 60fps


Last edited by fluffymadness on Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:45 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: LCD Motion Blur Reduction Topic, and Shmups >60fps List
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:46 am 



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 Post subject: Re: LCD Motion Blur Reduction Topic, and Shmups >60fps List
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:44 am 



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Posts: 4
As most/all are locked to 60fps and the fact most monitors can't strobe at 60hz.
I think the best option would be to use some form of software based black frame insertion.

But as in a hook for DX9,10,11,OGL etc which outputs a black frame for every other frame.

Maybe this can be done using reshade?
Something like, (note i have no idea how to write a reshade filter)
framecount=yes
if framenumber=odd; then output black frame etc

I'm not sure if this is possible or not with reshade, anyone?
You would need a 120hz monitor using this method in much the same way as retroarch.


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 Post subject: Re: LCD Motion Blur Reduction Topic, and Shmups >60fps List
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:31 pm 


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thanks for posting, good info..
A link to enable black frame insertion in Groovymame would be great to use with LCD monitors.

in another note - "Basically your screen refresh rate is 120hz, but you'll spread out the 60fps while rendering, each 2nd frame is a completely black picture" A fellow member mentioned setting 120hz on Groovymame to use with a Mitsubishi XM 27" CRT because the Mitsubishi XM 27" supports the 120hz refresh rate and this would decrease lag in gaming with GroovyMame. I am not sure if this is the same as Black Frame insertion but has anyone tried that? is this something that is recommended on CRTs that support 120hz?
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 Post subject: Re: LCD Motion Blur Reduction Topic, and Shmups >60fps List
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:54 pm 



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Posts: 10
SNK-NEO-GEO wrote:
thanks for posting, good info..
A link to enable black frame insertion in Groovymame would be great to use with LCD monitors.

in another note - "Basically your screen refresh rate is 120hz, but you'll spread out the 60fps while rendering, each 2nd frame is a completely black picture" A fellow member mentioned setting 120hz on Groovymame to use with a Mitsubishi XM 27" CRT because the Mitsubishi XM 27" supports the 120hz refresh rate and this would decrease lag in gaming with GroovyMame. I am not sure if this is the same as Black Frame insertion but has anyone tried that? is this something that is recommended on CRTs that support 120hz?


To use 120hz with groovymame and also blackframeinsertion with lcd

If you are using an lcd, make the following edits in the mame.ini.

Code:
lcd_range                 60-120
black_frame_insertion     1


and set your screen refresh rate to 120hz. Then it should work

For CRT....does the Mitsubishi CRT support 640x480 120hz ?
For every 31khz VGA CRT you can use 240p at 120hz if you have a compatible ati card and use crt emudriver

When you set 120hz you'll effectively double the rendering, render each image twice,but I'm not quite sure why it can decrease inputlag in mame.
However you'll have some kind of image doubling effect with 120hz if you don't activate blackframeinsertion in the mame.ini

If you want to reduce input lag effectively, i think it's better to use frame_delay in the groovymame ini.
Basically frame delay improves input lag by pushing the input polling and rendering closer to when the frame will actually be displayed.
However, you'll need quite a beefy cpu to handle the highest value in groovy mame which is frame_delay 9
About 4ghz Single core is recommended ^^

Also set video to d3d in the ini.
Code:
video d3d

This also reduces lag, because this way groovymame will use d3dex as backend.

Another thing is that some cheap encoders for arcadesticks also have some hardware lag, you can probably shave off some ms in that area too.


Last edited by fluffymadness on Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:17 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: LCD Motion Blur Reduction Topic, and Shmups >60fps List
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:00 pm 



Joined: 18 Aug 2016
Posts: 10
Anim8 wrote:
As most/all are locked to 60fps and the fact most monitors can't strobe at 60hz.
I think the best option would be to use some form of software based black frame insertion.

But as in a hook for DX9,10,11,OGL etc which outputs a black frame for every other frame.

Maybe this can be done using reshade?
Something like, (note i have no idea how to write a reshade filter)
framecount=yes
if framenumber=odd; then output black frame etc

I'm not sure if this is possible or not with reshade, anyone?
You would need a 120hz monitor using this method in much the same way as retroarch.


It would be awesome, if someone could get this going.


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 Post subject: Re: LCD Motion Blur Reduction Topic, and Shmups >60fps List
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:54 pm 



Joined: 24 Jan 2018
Posts: 4
fluffymadness wrote:
Anim8 wrote:
As most/all are locked to 60fps and the fact most monitors can't strobe at 60hz.
I think the best option would be to use some form of software based black frame insertion.

But as in a hook for DX9,10,11,OGL etc which outputs a black frame for every other frame.

Maybe this can be done using reshade?
Something like, (note i have no idea how to write a reshade filter)
framecount=yes
if framenumber=odd; then output black frame etc

I'm not sure if this is possible or not with reshade, anyone?
You would need a 120hz monitor using this method in much the same way as retroarch.


It would be awesome, if someone could get this going.


Came across this thread over at blurbusters

https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopi ... 223#p24542
Quote:
Ask and ye shall receive!

A BFI shader for MPC-HC.

Step 1) Save this HLSL code to BFI.hlsl:
--------------------------


Quote:
// BFI Shader for Blurbusters.com
// Author RLBURNSIDE
// Public domain - use as you wish

sampler s0 : register(s0);

float4 main(float2 tex : TEXCOORD0) : COLOR
{
// Set your 3D projector to SBS 3D mode and voila, the right half of the image side is black and the left side contains the entire frame, squeezed in
if (tex.x < 0.5)
{
tex.x *= 2.0;
float4 colour = tex2D(s0, tex);
return colour;
}
else
{
return float4(0,0,0,0);
}
}



--------------------------

Step 2) Drop it into : C:\Program Files (x86)\MPC-HC\Shaders (you will need admin rights)
Step 3) Add it to Post-resize shaders. (View->Options->Playback->Shaders)
Step 4) Watch a movie or tv show in MPC-HC fullscreen
Step 5) Activate SBS 3D mode on your projector

It should also work for any game as a post processing effect via SweetFX or similar. Might need some minor code tweaks depending on the interface.

Took me 2 minutes :)

ps make sure your 3D settings show the left eye first, otherwise you will incur an 8.33 ms latency hit. All projectors support swapping eyes or you can just change the sign on the shader inequality then subtract 0.5 (right before the *= 2.0 line)


Last edited by Anim8 on Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: LCD Motion Blur Reduction Topic, and Shmups >60fps List
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:05 pm 


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Being a console gamer, I'd rather have a hardware/built-in display motion blur reduction solution for 60Hz content (HD console games). It looks like there's just a handful of monitors that have this feature, all made by benq and now discountinued. Everyone also seems to complain about excessive flickering with 60Hz strobing, so I don't know if that was even a sensible way to go in the first place..

I wonder why there's no talk about a rolling-scan OLED. Combining CRT-like scanning with OLED's instant pixel transitions would make for great motion resolution at even 60Hz refresh and with little or no side-effects except a dimmed picture. At CES LG showed a gimmick-y rollable OLEDs prototype instead. :lol:

Anyway, good thread. As for the list, all 'classic' shmups that made it on Steam will be locked at 60Hz for sure..


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 Post subject: Re: LCD Motion Blur Reduction Topic, and Shmups >60fps List
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:39 pm 


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@fluffymadness - thanks for the info on the Groovymame LCD settings..I will give that a try. I have an LCD monitor that support Ultra Low Motion Blur and goes up top 144khz which is on the list.. I need to test things out and see how GroovyMAME works on that LCD:).


For my CRT setup - I do have GroovyMAME with a compatible ati card and use crt emu driver for 15khz\31khz gaming connected to the Mitsubishi XM plus..

"does the Mitsubishi CRT support 640x480 120hz ?" Not use..Never looked into that. But maybe the member was talking about a different subject but I do remember him mentioning to set groovymame to 120hz.. I will reach out to the member and find more info. thanks
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 Post subject: Re: LCD Motion Blur Reduction Topic, and Shmups >60fps List
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:26 pm 


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@X-X; there's a lot to desire but no existing blur reduction method is without its downsides. Still a long, long road. Especially when you consider all the unresolved issues + not everyone having the same expectations (remember retrogaming is the 5th wheel) + all the proprietary tech shit. ^^
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 Post subject: Re: LCD Motion Blur Reduction Topic, and Shmups >60fps List
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:52 am 



Joined: 24 Jan 2018
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Xer Xian wrote:
It looks like there's just a handful of monitors that have this feature, all made by benq and now discountinued.


Not quite discontinued. If your still interested in the gaming branded BenQ monitors they do still sell them, just re-branded and sold under the Zowie Brand.
BenQ xl2720z is now sold as Zowie xl2720, which can single strobe at 60hz

http://www.benq.com.au/product/monitor/xl2720z/ (discontinued)
https://zowie.benq.com/en/product/monit ... l2720.html (Current)


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 Post subject: Re: LCD Motion Blur Reduction Topic, and Shmups >60fps List
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:38 am 


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Xyga wrote:
@X-X; there's a lot to desire but no existing blur reduction method is without its downsides. Still a long, long road. Especially when you consider all the unresolved issues + not everyone having the same expectations (remember retrogaming is the 5th wheel) + all the proprietary tech shit. ^^

Yes, but you will agree that out of all the methods available, rolling-scan on a fast emissive display is the best - apply that to an OLED and you sort of end up with a fixed-pixel CRT :o it might even help alleviating burn-in since pixels will stay off for the most part of the refresh.. as you said in some other thread, it's featured in Sony's OLED PVM/BVM monitors, it just needs to make its way onto consumer products (and no I don't mean the Oculus VR glasses).

Anim8 wrote:
Not quite discontinued. If your still interested in the gaming branded BenQ monitors they do still sell them, just re-branded and sold under the Zowie Brand.

I didn't know that, thanks! A bit of shame that BenQ didn't allow to set strobe lenght on the menus (I'd have no way of using Blurbusters' utility with consoles), but still this is definitely under my radar now (currently it's seriously overpriced in Europe.. 400+ euros everywhere vs 249 dolla in the US).


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 Post subject: Re: LCD Motion Blur Reduction Topic, and Shmups >60fps List
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:03 pm 


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@Xer Xian, yes and no, rolling scan @60hz flickers visibly too, and what about off-refresh rates etc. As for it to become a consumer sets thing, I just don't have faith it'll happen tomorrow nor the day after. I think manufacturers of consumer produtcs are afraid of investing too much r&d money into blur reduction for mainstream usage because they're well aware of the limits in that area. Just look, Sony sets have strobing, who uses it for gaming? ULMB is a thing on g-sync equipped monitors, who really uses it for gaming sessions? Going back to Sony and other manufacturers they offer great combinations of frame interpolation and insertion, some work great but can't be done without tons of lag, therefore nobody uses them for gaming.
Etc etc, not a single existing blur reduction technique can be considered good-enough for all types of game source material and prolonged use. higher frame rates (120+) is the current best method imho, but yet again not very flexible when it comes to retro gaming.
Sorry for the pessimism, but I like to think I'm a product realist, this is a very difficult area of practice/research after all.
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 Post subject: Re: LCD Motion Blur Reduction Topic, and Shmups >60fps List
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:46 pm 



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Xer Xian wrote:
I didn't know that, thanks! A bit of shame that BenQ didn't allow to set strobe lenght on the menus (I'd have no way of using Blurbusters' utility with consoles), but still this is definitely under my radar now (currently it's seriously overpriced in Europe.. 400+ euros everywhere vs 249 dolla in the US).


Well you will be happy to know everything you can set via the Blurbusters' utility can be done in monitors OSD, but its "hidden" in the service menu.

To access it on the xl2720, hold buttons 3 and 4 with power off for 5+ seconds, and then press the power button while continuing to hold the buttons down. This will unlock the factory menu, which looks like: https://i.imgur.com/0LwcqPJ.jpg

https://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopi ... =13&t=2467


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 Post subject: Re: LCD Motion Blur Reduction Topic, and Shmups >60fps List
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:03 pm 


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Anim8 wrote:
Well you will be happy to know everything you can set via the Blurbusters' utility can be done in monitors OSD

Yeah definitely! And thanks for the link too, that's a fairly long wall text, I will save it for later today.

@Xyga - I don't know about other people, I can't quite detect 60Hz CRT flickering so I'd be glad to have rolling-scan OLEDs. Maybe with adjustable persistence to find the sweet spot between flickering and blur reduction. I have no technical knowledge so I wouldn't know how or if it can be implemented at non-standard or even variable refresh rates, but as far as I know this applies to strobing and BFI as well. As for it not being likely to hit consumers' domain, who knows, maybe you're right, I'm not holding my breath for it in any case since 90% of my gaming time is spent on good ol' CRTs :)


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 Post subject: Re: LCD Motion Blur Reduction Topic, and Shmups >60fps List
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:08 am 



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Rolling scan would be a significant improvement even at 60Hz, but you can bet your ass it isn't coming. The sample-and-hold issue has driven me crazy as long as I've known about it, and in the same period of time it's become very clear there is just no incentive for manufacturers to do the R&D.


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 Post subject: Re: LCD Motion Blur Reduction Topic, and Shmups >60fps List
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:54 pm 



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Yeah, motion clarity is awful on LCDs compared to CRTs. I could easily tell when playing Twilight Princess HD on my IPS monitor.


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 Post subject: Re: LCD Motion Blur Reduction Topic, and Shmups >60fps List
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:13 pm 


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On a 'normal' sample and hold lcd 60Hz can't show great motion and it's especially apparent with fast scrolling and quick polygonal 3D games yeah.

BUT, and it's a big BUT(t) it varies quite a bit depending on several factors specs and performance, like response and RTC/overdrive, PWM (or not), resolution and source colors etc

A panel (assuming LED backlit) without crappy PWM and good balanced pixel overdrive makes a quite visible difference vs one that lacks both.

OLEDs are the second best for 60Hz motion after plasmas because they're like LCDs with all the sources of blur - all but sample and hold - eliminated.
I'm wating a couple of years to see what they'll do of hdmi 2.1 and possible strobing/bfi, but even if those end up disappointing I'll still get an OLED for all my console and arcade stuff.
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 Post subject: Re: LCD Motion Blur Reduction Topic, and Shmups >60fps List
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:01 am 



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Yeah, I have a "good" LCD and there are no issues at all with certain types of motion: i.e. most of your modern 3D type games look freakin' great no matter what's going on onscreen. Unfortunately, it seems like flat-plane 2D scrolling is where sample-and-hold becomes a problem. It really fucks with any retrogaming, and field scrolling while watching live sports has the same smeary quality to it.


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 Post subject: Re: LCD Motion Blur Reduction Topic, and Shmups >60fps List
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:49 am 


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[rant warning: replying and taking the opportunity to develop my previous post point, but still on-topic :p]

Well I thought it was usually the opposite lol, less annoying with 2D than 3D (what's your model out of curiosity?)
Maybe it's got to do with our habits and resolution output and clarity, often the 3D stuff we play comes from PC or HD console and matches the panel's native resolution = clarity. While retro stuff is often uspscaled, softened and 'scanlined'.

What I do with retro sources on LCD now is using the sharpest output with only a tiny bit of whatever means of softening available. No frills.
Emulation-wise that means using integer scaling, no heavy shaders or blurry filters, no crt simulation.
Same with the OSSC, I use x2 and x3 less often than x4 and x5, the more shakey and movey a game the better it looks in motion with higher multiples and no fake lines (especially if they're going against the scrolling direction!).
The softening is done by the panel's natural pixel ghosting while in motion, and it looks considerably better that way.

NOTE: this is why good response balance with well-adjusted overdrive and no inverse ghosting, also no PWM backlighting, is absolutely crucial. People focus too much on features like HDR and blur reduction nowadays where they expect miracles, but the basic specs and performance of the panel and backlight are more important for all of our 60Hz locked stuff, and affect everything beyond anyway, be it higher refreshes or strobing etc.

For the more 'quiet' games I still use x2 and x3 sometimes even with an additional touch of softening either from my monitor's own sharpness settings or from a secondary processor like a DVDO (less often now since my current monitor does well by itself)


TL;DR of course a direct comparison with a CRT always hurts but avoiding bad quality and performance LCD monitors and turning off too blurry filters/shaders and fake scanlines when they oppose motion direction also greatly helps with overall motion clarity and perception, even at 60Hz sample-and-hold.


EDIT: forgot to mention the 360 shmups ports, in particular those lacking high-res redrawn graphics only offering crappy filters, well the same rules apply, they look so much better in motion while minding to keep the integers and turning the filters off. Of course a display that can overscan by itself or a DVDO is necessary for those who can't stand big borders.
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 Post subject: Re: LCD Motion Blur Reduction Topic, and Shmups >60fps List
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:58 pm 



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I have the famous Sony 800B - didn't find it as great for gaming as was hyped. Yes, it was among the best for input lag at the time, but motion isn't great at all.

I don't actually run filters for the most part - just the original 2D bitmaps coming through as intended, and they smear. If I had to guess, filters might actually help: the image being softer to begin with would downplay the blur effect once it began to move.

You're right that most of the 3D I run is input directly at 1080p, but then again my retro stuff is technically the same, even if it's upscaled first by the outputting console.

Dunno. I do think that different TVs have different blur characteristics, both due to panel type and particular companies' processing methods. And overall, it's safe to say that as far as LCD may have come, it's ultimately all still "lipstick on a pig".


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 Post subject: Re: LCD Motion Blur Reduction Topic, and Shmups >60fps List
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:41 am 


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bigbadboaz wrote:
I have the famous Sony 800B - didn't find it as great for gaming as was hyped. Yes, it was among the best for input lag at the time, but motion isn't great at all.

You'll always see smearing on LCDs but typically more on TVs as the panels of those are commonly driven slower than monitors and don't offer any adjustable RTC/overdrive.
No mistake the W800B is 'good' for gaming but there's so much an LCD TV can do with 60Hz sources, they're no OLEDs or plasmas, not even pc monitors.
It's important to know what to expect.

For instance I have a 42W650A very similar to the W800B since it's a Sony VA of the same era, and some full-hd monitors to compare; a 32" Samsung VA that's clearly more responsive than the W6, two 32" IPS (LG and ViewSonic) even more responsive, and one 27" HP IPS beating all of the previous, and I'm still talking basic 60Hz sample and hold PWM-free so the conditions are the same for all mentioned displays.
All the same resolution, refresh and backlight, and between the Sony and the HP the difference in motion blur/perception is almost shocking.
Yet in terms of average pixel response between the two and in general the Sony vs all these monitors, we're probably talking of a difference of about 5~8ms, at worst. Enough to leave one in the realm of TVs and the others in that of monitors.
Personally I don't sit very close to my TV so its blur level is no big deal, it would be if I sat as close as I do with my monitors though.
Lots of people now use big TVs almost like they're monitors, sure technically they're the same, but TV manufacturers don't think like us, they don't feel they need to provide TV panels driven as fast as monitor's.

bigbadboaz wrote:
I don't actually run filters for the most part - just the original 2D bitmaps coming through as intended, and they smear. If I had to guess, filters might actually help: the image being softer to begin with would downplay the blur effect once it began to move.

You're right that most of the 3D I run is input directly at 1080p, but then again my retro stuff is technically the same, even if it's upscaled first by the outputting console

Sorry I'm a bit confused, not sure I understand what you use, what source, what games, what machine settings, what settings on the TV when playing the retro stuff, it gives me a feeling you're not in an optimal configuration.
Again filters can't downplay the blur, they do exactly the opposite because they reduce the details, colors and contrast of the source, scaling with interpolation does the same (I know shaders mindful to not hurt colors and details output exist but I rarely see mention of those)

Mmh..I don't know how to better explain what I mean, maybe: you can't change the blur of you display, but it will appear worse if you use an already blurred and faded picture.
Formulated differently; blurring the details and fading colors and contrast away is what smearing basically does, so by adding a smoothing filter you actually increase/double the picture degradation when it's in motion.
On LCDs smoothing filters and more or less fancy shaders, imitating crt/scanlines or not, look good when still, but most make everything worse in motion.
Vibrant and sharp is what you want on a 60hz LCD (or only very gentle smoothing)

bigbadboaz wrote:
Dunno. I do think that different TVs have different blur characteristics, both due to panel type and particular companies' processing methods

All TVs have different specs and performance directly related to blur/motion, indeed and of course. But if playing in 'game mode' as intended then processing shouldn't play any role, except in regards to the TV's own scaling, which is better to bypass by using native output or closest if possible.
bigbadboaz wrote:
And overall, it's safe to say that as far as LCD may have come, it's ultimately all still "lipstick on a pig".

In regards to blur and processing? Yes, I agree. Some LCD TVs and monitors have pushed the performance of each panel type to what I believe are their limits (response, colors, motion, lag etc), but they're still not good enough, same for HDR etc, in the end only OLED or even better future panel tech will be able to offer the performance required for all of those advanced features.
The only good thing about LCDs now is that in particular with monitors; decent ones free from the historical main issues of the technology are now very affordable.

On-Topic: Sorry readers we're posting about peasant 60Hz stuff here when it should be about everything else better, but because we're actually stuck with mostly 60Hz-or-so games, well, it's not so off-topic. :p
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