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 Post subject: Question about changing processors in PCs
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:08 pm 


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Joined: 12 Jul 2007
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Due to the wonderous news about Intel processors today, I'm thinking about changing mine after the patch.
Is it hard to do? Like, by yourself?

I have an Alienware R6.

Also, how much do processors cost?
AND, would I be able to not install the patch, and be able to do everything else? My gaming PC I only use for gaming. Security isn't super important with it. I could always buy the games on my other PC, and just download them on the R6.
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 Post subject: Re: Question about changing processors in PCs
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:18 pm 


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Joined: 30 Apr 2012
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Changing from what to what?

No need to be concerned about the new Intel bug. Modern processors have more potential states than there are atoms in the known universe- they're going to have thousands of bugs, we just haven't found them yet. Getting a new processor won't make you any more secure.


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 Post subject: Re: Question about changing processors in PCs
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:27 am 


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Ignoring security out of frustration is foolish.

This bug affects the Intel hardware virtualization. Most games and emulators won't use that. You shouldn't see a performance hit in games. No need to buy a new processor. Just wait and update your entire machine.

The bug is real and potentially dangerous. Windows will introduce a patch with it's own method for obfuscating the memory locations of virtualized processes. That should be good enough--ableit somewhat slower.

This will probably affect browsers, but most any gaming desktop is ridiculously overpowered for browsing--even with a resource hog like Chrome. You'll never notice.

The only practical situation that this could affect average users is using VirtualBox or XP mode.

Google and Amazon are the ones sweating this.

Also, if you want a real dose of paranoia, Google USB security bug. You can't patch that at all, so don't leave your devices unattended around black hat types.
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 Post subject: Re: Question about changing processors in PCs
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:33 am 



Joined: 22 Jul 2017
Posts: 65
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There is a lot of misinformation and speculation spreading around right now about this bug, mostly because detailed information is being withheld for security reasons until everything is patched. Wait until facts are on the table.
As for changing processors it's rather easy. I can recommend watching a video by JayztwoCents: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyxDddD ... outu.be&a=


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 Post subject: Re: Question about changing processors in PCs
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:25 pm 



Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 969
Location: Leeds
uh ... it absolutely depends.

Typically a significant processor change will require a new motherboard too. You will be taking apart your whole computer and plugging it all back in again. All your motherboard components will need driver updates.

A minor processor change might just require detaching cooling, levering out the old, levering in the new and re-attaching cooling.

Price is very dependent upon what you are aiming for. Highest end chips (especially intel) command high prices. Proportionally to their benefit the higher end chips of all manufacturers tend to always be more proportionally expensive to their benefit over lower tier processors in the same line - it's largely a supply and demand issue - the higher clock speed chips tend to be the physically better, smaller yields in a fabrication run, and/or the product of a new smaller fabrication line/step based on r&d.

Security wise amd, intel and arm all have flaws related to recent news that they are patching. Though to my understanding, despite the risk, there has yet to be specific exploits that have been developed to take advantage of these recently identified security flaws. *Edit - I stand corrected, intel are likely the worst off here, but I'd wait and see - they're all largely in the same oops-there's-a-risk-here situation ... and we do await what performance impacts we'll get on windows machines per vendor and per generation... and they *seem* to be suggesting they might be able to improve any performance impact over time with further patches...


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 Post subject: Re: Question about changing processors in PCs
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:42 pm 


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I guess we'll know more about it next week. I'm not going to update my gaming PC, until I hear some more info then.
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 Post subject: Re: Question about changing processors in PCs
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:13 pm 


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By the time processors arrive with both of these bugs completely fixed, it's likely they will need new motherboards too.
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 Post subject: Re: Question about changing processors in PCs
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:45 pm 



Joined: 25 Jul 2008
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Location: Leeds
It's very early but initial reports seem to be actually fairly minimal for most users based on win 10 tests with an i7-8700:

https://www.techspot.com/article/1554-m ... e-windows/

Personally, still a little wary of how it may effect further os + chip types - especially win7 + dual socket machines, but I'm going to be in the minority there... tbh it *seems* the hits are to be on data transfer and the management between servers/virtual computer setups... So the bad news seems to fairly limited for most people assuming you're not right up against some kind of hardware borderline for say streaming/recording high def video, or disk reads on high res assets for open world games.

Upshot: Although there are situations where drastic losses around 30% are evident, most practical desktop user performance hits *seem* around just 1% or so.


BuckoA51 wrote:
By the time processors arrive with both of these bugs completely fixed, it's likely they will need new motherboards too.

Whilst meltdown maybe fixed with hardware re-designs (I wouldn't expect that within a year from intel... but who knows if they've been on this for 6 months now), I don't think anyone is going to change OS + hardware architecture to combat spectre within the foreseeable future; I think you'll just see an uptick in business for those patching against possible exploits. Although who knows this could speed up a real shakeup in what we understand as 'pc' architecture in the next couple of years; especially anything that shares a lineage at either end of the scale - [rapidly iterated] mobile processing or [now looking for other options, with a few large scale models already available] server processing.... but still ... I wouldn't hold my breath on this front...


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 Post subject: Re: Question about changing processors in PCs
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:09 pm 


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You know the people at Intel are shitting their pants.

I know one of the higher ups sold his stock.
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 Post subject: Re: Question about changing processors in PCs
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:35 pm 



Joined: 25 Jul 2008
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Location: Leeds
It'll be the server side this will really hit intel: we'll see how it relates to amd's epyc offerings which were really going to challenge intel's strangle hold on that side of the market before this - assuming they've ironed everything out. We'll have to see how the patches effect epyc performance... I believe people were playing with them at the end of last year but unless I've missed it (?) not seen a general outpouring of epyc based servers/workstations yet, let alone how they're effected by recent patches.

Krzanich the intel CEO ditched all the shares he could in a de-investment plan ... normally fair play ... only thing was it was filed after they were informed of the vulnerability, but before it was public. I'm no expert, but I'm not sure how this isn't insider trading and possibly the dumbest part of this whole drama...

*edit: There's some trepidation awaiting skylake vs epyc playoffs, but ... 11 billion off intel share price vs. amd's total sales of 6bn sales last year ... would suggest a lovely hole for amd to fill if performance holds true post patches...


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 Post subject: Re: Question about changing processors in PCs
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:18 pm 



Joined: 12 May 2013
Posts: 406
Hardware fixes won't come around for at least another generation so changing CPUs won't change anything for the moment.


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 Post subject: Re: Question about changing processors in PCs
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:11 pm 


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This affects ARM as well. No doubt, most Android users will never see any patches.

iPhone exploits from this would be very valuable. Apple is too cheap to outbid the market, so new attack possiblites are also worrying. Apple claims to have a patch rolling; so, that's probably the last we'll hear of it. We can only guess if the problem was ever really fixed.

The good news is Intel, Microsoft, and Linux responses will be subject to more public review.

Also, if you follow the homebrew scene, there is some excitement and optimism out there for current gen console softmods. So, it's not all bad news.

We'll see what comes of it.
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 Post subject: Re: Question about changing processors in PCs
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:44 pm 


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From what I've read there are several architectures that don't use speculative execution or implement it in a different way.

I know several pi boards are not really affected by this.


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 Post subject: Re: Question about changing processors in PCs
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:12 am 


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Here a DF vid about it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC1WuKdPVCQ

I have about 4 PCs, and I'm updating them all except for the gaming PC. I hope it doesn't sneak in somehow. I have turned off automatic Windows Update, so I hope that will hold things off.
I still download from Steam, but that's about all I do with the PC.

It's purely for gaming, and nothing else.
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 Post subject: Re: Question about changing processors in PCs
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:59 pm 


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Anyone have any issues after downloading this update?
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 Post subject: Re: Question about changing processors in PCs
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:57 pm 



Joined: 25 Jul 2008
Posts: 969
Location: Leeds
No, tbh a handful of laptops we have have been fine totally fine win10/7+8.1. But I don't really care about them :)

... I've not yet even attempted to update any of my main boxes on win7 since that update still seems to be a bit of a mess... If win 7/8(.1) is your only pc it's a little difficult to advise what to do just yet, and would actually caution against updating just yet, especially if you have an older amd - although it's still a bit unclear what's going on here with bluescreens.... and it's probably just behind any efforts focused on win10...

There seem to be specific issues concerning older amd chips on win10, but I *think* the latest is that they're automatically now not allowing the update to install on chips they now know have an issue, and more specific patches will eventually follow. In general the win10 patch seems to be working well for most users, and is probably recommended especially if this is your main/single pc online.


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