Questions that do not deserve a thread

[werk91]

So you're saying that the 360 pad is better? Personally I tend to use analog sticks over Dpad for shmups (probably not a good thing I know). I resort to a Dpad in some tricky bullet hell moments but overall mainly analogue stick. As far as Dpads go I don't mind stiff clicky ones. The one on the Fat Nintendo DS is amazing for me. The flimsy bumpers are a common thing or something that's been fixed with better QC down the line?

[Ikaruga11]

On the subject of controllers, I have a few questions about them myself.

1.) Do wired PS3 controllers exist? I don't want any input lag, which is what wireless controllers introduce. Does the charging cable eliminate input lag if you hook the PS3 controller into it?
2.) What is better for playing NES games: the original controller or the dogbone controller?
3.) Scientifically speaking, is the thumb or index finger faster at pressing buttons? Which one would have finer control over an analog stick?

[Steamflogger Boss]

1. Yes but nothing official so the quality is fairly dubious and you might not have full functionality.
2. Personal preference. I think most people would say dog bone though.

[TransatlanticFoe]

So you're saying that the 360 pad is better? Personally I tend to use analog sticks over Dpad for shmups (probably not a good thing I know). I resort to a Dpad in some tricky bullet hell moments but overall mainly analogue stick. As far as Dpads go I don't mind stiff clicky ones. The one on the Fat Nintendo DS is amazing for me. The flimsy bumpers are a common thing or something that's been fixed with better QC down the line?

The clicky pad of the xbone feels awkward when you're constantly rolling your thumb around it - i.e. playing a shmup. It's more responsive than the 360 d-pad but it's less comfortable to use. For that reason I wouldn't recommend it for shmups.

Bumpers are held together by literally a couple of millimetres of plastic in a terrible design move - had one break on me and found out for myself (also they're a pain to replace should they break, you need to snap the case open and then undo security screws). Even the expensive Elite controller features the same flimsy design. They won't improve, sadly. It's a superb weighty controller but I can't recommend it over the 360 simply because it won't last.

To be honest the 360 pad is great for general gaming but neither it nor the xbone are much cop for shmups. Saturn (even the standard UK/US model) and Mega Drive pads have great d-pads and you can get cheap USB adapters for them. I'd go down that route rather than a cheap xbone pad.

[bobrocks95]

So you're saying that the 360 pad is better? Personally I tend to use analog sticks over Dpad for shmups (probably not a good thing I know). I resort to a Dpad in some tricky bullet hell moments but overall mainly analogue stick. As far as Dpads go I don't mind stiff clicky ones. The one on the Fat Nintendo DS is amazing for me. The flimsy bumpers are a common thing or something that's been fixed with better QC down the line?

I will say that every 360 controller I've ever owned had the left analog stick worn down to the point where they would drift and had no grip remaining. The Xbone controller didn't give me the impression that that would happen, the sticks seem much better. The D-Pad is perfectly fine if you aren't using it constantly. I used it for some of the older 8-directional games in Rare Replay and don't remember my thumb getting too sore.

Can't comment on the bumpers really. They didn't feel like they were very flimsy to me, but it's been a while. I'd look and see how common breakage is? I don't doubt TransatlanticFoe but I wonder how widespread the problem is.

On the subject of controllers, I have a few questions about them myself.

1.) Do wired PS3 controllers exist? I don't want any input lag, which is what wireless controllers introduce. Does the charging cable eliminate input lag if you hook the PS3 controller into it?
2.) What is better for playing NES games: the original controller or the dogbone controller?
3.) Scientifically speaking, is the thumb or index finger faster at pressing buttons? Which one would have finer control over an analog stick?

1. Plug in a Dualshock 3 controller to a PS3 and it uses USB for connection. That said most games of that era and on have tons of input lag to begin with, so it's not a huge deal. If you're using it on a PC I don't know if you can use it as a wired connection or not, but the Dualshock 3 is one of the worst PC controllers I could possibly imagine using so I don't know why you'd want to do that.

2. Personal preference, dogbone is kinda tiny.

3. That's a weird question. Do you really want to destroy your wrists by holding a controller in such a way that your index fingers can hit the buttons/sticks?

[Einzelherz]

3. That's a weird question.

metalol

[Ikaruga11]

That's a weird question. Do you really want to destroy your wrists by holding a controller in such a way that your index fingers can hit the buttons/sticks?

If you don't know the answer, then you shouldn't have answered.

[Einzelherz]

That's a weird question. Do you really want to destroy your wrists by holding a controller in such a way that your index fingers can hit the buttons/sticks?

If you don't know the answer, then you shouldn't have answered.

No good deed goes unpunished.

[orange808]

I knew multiple people that played NES and Sega with the index and middle finger of each hand. The controller rested flat on the floor or lap.

Wired controllers may or may not reduce input lag. For instance, the Switch uses an odd polling cadence that makes the benefit questionable on the console.

On the PC, you want a proper adapter with 1ms polling combined with a real SNES, N64, or Genesis 6 button controller. That's how you get a real high quality d pad and low lag for emulation.

[RottenToTheGore]

Whelp, I really did it now. Lifted a pad clean off my Duo. Not going to mess with it any time soon before I get more practice on easier jobs, but anyone know what I can do to salvage it?

https://ibb.co/h5jDnG

[citrus3000psi]

Whelp, I really did it now. Lifted a pad clean off my Duo. Not going to mess with it any time soon before I get more practice on easier jobs, but anyone know what I can do to salvage it?

https://ibb.co/h5jDnG

It looks like there is still copper on the inner hole which is good. You might be able to just put some solder on the pin and let it flow down the hole, it may not hold over time though. What does the other side of the board look like?

[RottenToTheGore]

It looks like there is still copper on the inner hole which is good. You might be able to just put some solder on the pin and let it flow down the hole, it may not hold over time though. What does the other side of the board look like?

Not sure. It's a 5 pin DIN connector that I was removing, but once that pad lifted I stopped everything.

[Tigershark]

@Tigershark: Soft-modding your PS2 is (nearly) for free and probably the best solution to force 480p, but some games won't display properly. Here's a couple of links if you're interested:
http://psx-scene.com/forums/f291/gs-mod ... ack-61808/
http://www.ps2-home.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1248

Another solution would be replacing the HD Box with another upscaler with digital out. The Framemeister and DVDOs are the most popular but not cheap - if you don't want to spend much you can look into vga/component to dvi/hdmi upscalers from such brands as Gefen, Kramer, Extron, Creston, etc. 480i is the worst to deal with though, you will have added lag and a less than stellar result on a HDTV no matter what.

I missed this sorry and thanks. It's tempting to look at the more expensive options. I need a solution to play all my consoles into one TV with no lag issues. That includes my SS which atm is connected to a Sony Trinitron - so obviously no lag. It's all a bit messy in my games room. Could do with a tidy up!

[bobrocks95]

Quick question: why do I see a bunch of people on AVSForum complaining about motion handling on OLEDs?

My best guess is that the pixel response time is so fast, that it makes motion appear jittery instead of adding in some blur to smooth it out. But then why do they keep expecting it to be fixed, when the only solution would be frame interpolation?

[Fudoh]

Without any help motion resolution on OLEDs isn't great. Just a notch better than on LCDs (minus the blur of course).

For movies or TV material you will almost always utilize some kind of motion interpolation and here LG's algorithms really suck compared to Sony's.

[Xyga]

Quick question: why do I see a bunch of people on AVSForum complaining about motion handling on OLEDs?

My best guess is that the pixel response time is so fast, that it makes motion appear jittery instead of adding in some blur to smooth it out. But then why do they keep expecting it to be fixed, when the only solution would be frame interpolation?

My own guess;

It's probably something like that yes, also lots of home cinema amateurs were plasma or CCFL LCD users before that and I wouldn't be surprised if many almost entirely skipped the current generation of modern LED LCDs.
OLED motion is the same as PWM-free w/ sample-and-hold LCDs (which makes for about maybe a quarter of all sold LCD TVs at best and practically all LCD monitors), but with OLED and pixel blur finally out of the way maybe some can't help but realize that it is a waste to be stuck with this obsolete motion handling.

Also, at the same time OLED began to rise motion reduction techniques such as lightboost and ULMB were growing popular, a website like blurbusters helped popularizing the techniques and the awesomeness that rolling scan on TVs would be etc (motion interpolation sure sucks in comparison)

Thus the popular opinion shortcut: "motion is flawed on OLEDs" :/

I'll add as a note that on the LCD side there's been a lot of confusion about PWM-free w/ sample and hold as well, a lot of people still don't understand the difference it makes, nor why it's still better than PWM even if it can make pixel blur stand out more. Some even ended up confusing awful slow-ass PWM for a naturally blur-reducing' thing, prefering it over DC, which is of course wrong and a sacrilege.
Whether it's with LCDs or OLEDs what really happened these past few years with PWM and pixel blur being progressively defeated is: "now you really see it and you realize what's wrong and that it could be better" - and with display sizes going up too it's become quite apparent.
But I guess those issues and misunderstandings will never been resolved anyway because there will never be a perfect LCD, or by the time it is comically achieved the market will have fully embraced OLED and better motion standards (hopefully *cough*)

What bugs me today is when people talk about OLEDs using PWM too, I'm not sure what effect it has on motion because it's not exactly the same thing as PWM backlighting...

[Xer Xian]

OLEDs get rid of motion blur caused by pixel response time, but not of that caused by eye-tracking due to them being sample-and-hold displays and how human vision works (see here and here for more). CRTs are impulse-based and every phosphors row stays lit for around 1-2ms before decaying, which gets around the issue. Modern display can mimick that by inserting black frames in between or by backlight strobing (not sure if this one can be implemented on OLEDs though). There's also frame interpolation yes, but why would you ever use that (well, I wouldn't).

Also this is one of the reasons why a few selected CRTs, like the Sony FW-900 or the BVM F24 (brochure here), would still be the best way to watch movies up to two-three years ago with HDR and UHD, they can finally be put to rest in some museum..

[Xyga]

(not sure if this one can be implemented on OLEDs though).

Sony BVM OLED. Anything is possible, it's just a matter of tech cost and adpotion by the industry.

[Xer Xian]

Right Xyga, I forgot that one.. yeah. Hopefully it will trickle down to the masses

[Xyga]

It already has in a way, but it's VR

[bobrocks95]

Thanks all, very informative stuff.

So it sounds like the real solution is to get rid of sample-and-hold. Assuming that doesn't happen any time soon, there's also black frame insertion or strobing backlight/ULMB to help alleviate the problems.

Generally speaking though, an OLED would beat my Sony W7, right? People are just comparing against plasma and CRT which use completely different motion handling, and OLED still wins over LCD?

I don't like the BFI on the Sony, the flicker is really obvious to me and hurts my eyes, plus there's the brightness drop-off. PWM flicker on an old monitor also caused eye strain- is strobing backlight significantly different from that?

[orange808]

Kodi with DSplayer and madvr is a decent route to take if your display's internal processing struggles with judder. Blueray support is a pain, though.

It does decent frame interpolation/image processing and you can just drop your display into game/pc mode.

[Xyga]

Generally speaking though, an OLED would beat my Sony W7, right?

It will murder it, except for the upscaling of lower resolutions and deinterlacing, and it's got a tiny bit more lag you'll only detect if you are a Cylon or something.

and OLED still wins over LCD?

Of course, the only downside is that you have to pay attention to screen burn in, like with plasma before. And well...it's still damn expensive.
Honestly I'm waiting to see how HDMI 2.1 will do even if I don't have my hopes high, only 120Hz is interesting as I don't have faith that the included VRR will work with just anything.

I don't like the BFI on the Sony, the flicker is really obvious to me and hurts my eyes, plus there's the brightness drop-off.

It's a strobing mode (at least on my 42W6~7), not actual BFI, and at 60Hz of course it's far from ideal, I don't know anyone who likes/uses it. Upper Sony models do real BFI even mixed with interpolation in the most elaborate modes, it's great for some sources but not for games of course, it was not created to sync with those many odd refreshes and the lag is way too much.

PWM flicker on an old monitor also caused eye strain- is strobing backlight significantly different from that?

It's not fatigue-inducing for the same reasons, PWM has nothing to do with strobing and BFI anyway, it's just a backlight dimming method refreshing indenpendently from the video source.
Strobing flicker is noticeable and gives headaches when it's used with low refreshes, even the Sony BVM/PVM OLEDs have this problem, the higher frequency the less noticeable it becomes of course.
The challenge of blur reduction is in finding sweet spots that eliminate the perception of motion blur for the eyes while not giving migraines, also preserving smoothness, brightness, and low lag.
We're definitely not there yet as it exists only in niche products under specific conditions, it's not today nor tomorrow that accomplished blur reduction without major downsides for any source will become a maintream thing.

Well for anyone annoyed with all that shit and refusing to hunt down good CRTs, there's still the option of looking for the best possible used full-hd plasmas...but it's no easy quest either.

[SamIAm]

Has anyone ever tried building an S-Video to RGB converter with an RGB decoder IC like the CXA1621S? It seems like it could be very useful for consoles without RGB outputs on displays without S-Video inputs.

...

Looking closely at the datasheet, it seems that that particular IC isn't made so much for direct input of S-Video so much as YC-separated composite video. The signal levels it's expecting are odd. Still, it might be fun to play with.

In case anyone is interested, I found a schematic used in a DIY kit that was once available in Japan. An enterprising individual might import a few dozen CXA1621S's and build some converters to sell. To my surprise, the Y/C signal levels are attenuated by a simple voltage divider.

http://akizukidenshi.com/download/kairo ... %82%BF.pdf

This same company sells a newer kit pre-assembled for 2000 yen, but the IC at the heart of it doesn't have any support for S-Video, only composite.

http://akizukidenshi.com/catalog/g/gK-00023/

[werk91]

What's an alternative to the SyncStrike? I have one but it's far from me atm and I need to plug a Scart console into an Extron for a test.

[RottenToTheGore]

https://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=con ... ntroller_3

Says here it uses 10k ohm resistors, if I was using axial-lead ones for a project, anyone know what kind of wattage/tolerance I'd need? I'm not too familiar with this.

[Xer Xian]

Right Xyga, I forgot that one.. yeah. Hopefully it will trickle down to the masses

Speak of the devil...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naf1nlD93vw

Yeah saw it It's not clear whether it will be available with Game mode on though. Also back then I was actually referring to strobing rather than BFI (although I haven't researched if either has an advantage over the other).

This is also nice for gamers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19g9peb_IXU <- VRR support on upcoming QLED TV

[bobrocks95]

Right Xyga, I forgot that one.. yeah. Hopefully it will trickle down to the masses

Speak of the devil...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naf1nlD93vw

Yeah saw it It's not clear whether it will be available with Game mode on though. Also back then I was actually referring to strobing rather than BFI (although I haven't researched if either has an advantage over the other).

This is also nice for gamers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19g9peb_IXU <- VRR support on upcoming QLED TV

Oh wow... I was cynical about VRR ever being implemented, and now it's already here before HDMI 2.1 is even out. Super pleasantly surprised, let's hope other companies follow Samsung's example.

[729]

Your problem will be to find an upscaling solution compatible with the Avermedia capture box. The OSSC's output timings, especially from PCBs) are rather off-spec, so you're limited here. What you need is an upscaler that is able to unlock its output refresh rate, so you can get a standarized 720p/1080p60 signal into your LGP unit. On the higher end you can use a Framemeister to accomplish this, in the mid range there are the DVDO scalers and on the lower end there those $40 Scart to HDMI converters. All of these process RGB and all of these will convert to a perfectly timed 59.94Hz output.

Just a follow up on this response.

I went along and bought the $40 SCART to HDMI converter. The first thing I did to test it out was plug my HAS SCART into the converter directly; everything works, from video to sound.

The next thing I wanted to try out was recording/streaming using this same converter. I bought a set of these cables and made sure the cable was set to "Output"; plugged the BNC into the Output of my Sony PVM 14M2U, and plugged the SCART end directly into the Input side of the converter. From the Output side I ran my HDMI cable into my Live Gamer Portable and plugged my speakers into the Audio output as well.

Audio can be heard loud and clear, and the converter detects there's something in the Input SCART, however I'm not seeing anything whatsoever on my screen. I opened up OBS Classic and under the configuration, it sees that device has a signal, but it can't seem to output it; all I see on the preview screen is a red box and I can't really do much configuration beyond that. Then I opened up OBS Studio and there was a moment where the device was capturing the audio, but the video wasn't being detected; there was some configuration I could do, but the audio went away and there's just a black screen.

The last thing I did was mess with the HAS itself with the jumpers and switches that were available but no cigar.

Any suggestions on where to go from there?

Thanks.

[Fudoh]

You might need to supply a switching voltage to pin 16 of the scart header to enable RGB detection on the upscaling box. You can check your HAS RGB cable to see if that's provided here. On your breakout cable it currently isn't.