Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

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Ikaruga11
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by Ikaruga11 »

Lawfer wrote:Does anyone have a list of NTSC N64 serial numbers that are RGB moddable to use as an example?
http://nintendo64.wikia.com/wiki/Consol ... _Guide#USA
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Lawfer
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by Lawfer »

GeneraLight wrote:
Lawfer wrote:Does anyone have a list of NTSC N64 serial numbers that are RGB moddable to use as an example?
http://nintendo64.wikia.com/wiki/Consol ... _Guide#USA
Thanks.
borti4938

Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by borti4938 »

ross wrote:Borti, would whites even be affected by employing the wrong gamma curve in the DAC?

Mid-tones might be affected but there doesn't seem to be any semblance of the truly white whites you'd see with composite/S-Video, someone else can confirm but pure white with RGB on the N64 seems to be more of a grey, which doesn't sound like a gamma problem.

Maybe adjusting resistors as you've said could fix this though.

Would that also work on the basic RGB amp mod?
A fully attenuated white (all 7 bits of each color set) remains unchanged with a gamma curve applied.

I've replaced the 270ohm load resistors at the end of the R2R-ladder by 280ohm resistors and it's defenitely worth trying it. It's hard to take a comparision shot - actually I wasn't able to manage it as I don't own a capture card.
I have also compared the R2R ladder (viletim equivalent) with a video DAC-IC (N64 Advanced in 240p mode such it acts like the CPLD implementation): the DAC seems to be the surperior choice over the R2R ladder to me.

I have a redesign of the CPLD-based version with the DAC-IC in backhand.

Still, the white is not in the same 'intensity' as the white from a HDMI output solution.
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andykara2003
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by andykara2003 »

Nice one Borti, really appreciate all the work you're doing. The N64's my favourite console & I'm very much looking forward to seeing how the RGB image can be improved further..
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Lawfer
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by Lawfer »

andykara2003 wrote:The N64's my favourite console & I'm very much looking forward to seeing how the RGB image can be improved further..
Nintendo 64 before borti's mod:

Image

Nintendo 64 after borti's mod:

Image
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andykara2003
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by andykara2003 »

?
CobraKing
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by CobraKing »

It's a satirical representation (I think) of the difference between the existing RGB mods & Borti's upcoming work.
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andykara2003
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by andykara2003 »

Ahh thanks :)
borti4938

Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by borti4938 »

I've never said that the R2R ladder is a big problem and causes brightness loss. Just said that my feeling is that there is some difference in the output.

What do you mean with "poorly-calibrated analog video levels"? Still, the CPLD solution is completely independent of any DAC conversion of the N64. And still, if you have a linear analoge output increase between digital '0000000' (0mV, black) and digital value '1111111' (714mV, white) there is not much you can further do as you use 714mVpp then.

You can just process brightness (add/sub something to the digital value with saturation), contrast (vary the linear slop) with saturation and gamma (exponential function) inside of the CPLD/FPGA but everything results into a virtual loss of DAC-resolution.
borti4938

Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by borti4938 »

borti4938 wrote:I have a redesign of the CPLD-based version with the DAC-IC in backhand.
Here it is: the N64RGBv2. Will puiblished soon on GitHub.

Image
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andykara2003
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by andykara2003 »

Very nice, amazing work & your effort is much appreciated! What are the real world differences between the 3? Is there a visible, clearly discernable difference between them in image quality on a CRT for example?

Apologise for my ignorance - is the advanced FPGA version better than the V2 board?
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Kez
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by Kez »

andykara2003 wrote:Apologise for my ignorance - is the advanced FPGA version better than the V2 board?
Afaik, the main advantages of the advanced board are the "advanced features" listed in the git:
  • output of RGsB or YPBPr on demand
    linedoubling of 240p/288p video to 480p/576p
    selectable scanline strength: 0% (i.e. sl off), 25%, 50% and 100%
    optional bob de-interlace of 480i/576i to 480p/576p
    VGA output
It allows the N64 to function more as a standalone unit without requiring an upscaler. You could for example hook it up to an HDTV via component and use 480p with scanlines, or connect it to a CRT PC monitor via VGA.
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andykara2003
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by andykara2003 »

Excellent thanks Kez :)

So my simplified question to Borti is:

Is there a discernible difference in quality when using a CRT between the DAC an R2R ladder variants? (i.e. N64RGBv1 vs N64RGBv2)

And would you be able to more specifically describe the different qualities of the image that makes v2 superior to v1? Apologies for the questions, I'm very curious as to which aspects of the image are improved..
borti4938

Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by borti4938 »

To be honest, I'm not sure at all.

I made a test with my wife next to me. I had:
- N64RGBv2 - OSSC lineX2 no scanlines - Toshiba LCD TV HDMI input 1
- N64Adv. lineX2 no scanlines - Toshiba LCD TV HDMI input 1
- N64 with UltraHDMI in 480p output - Toshiba LCD TV HDMI input 2

I only have two PSUs for the N64; so I changed the setup in-between and replaced the N64RGBv2 with the N64Adv.
TV settings were identical for HDMI input 1 and 2.

I ask my wife if she was able to figure out, which picture is more colorful; and I can’t do that, too. The consoles were running Super Mario 64. And guess what; she wasn't able to figure it out.
I'll try to find my camera tomorrow and try to make some pictures.

Unfortunately I haven't done such a test with the N64RGBv1 and I replaced the v1 with the v2.
Last edited by borti4938 on Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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andykara2003
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by andykara2003 »

Thanks v. much for that Borti - much appreciated:)
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Thomas83lin
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by Thomas83lin »

Does anyone know if borti's n64rgb_viletim_igr.pof uses tim worthington's 1.2 source changes? Just curious?

"8/11/2017- Added software v1.2. Changed clock settings in the assignment editor. This may solve the colour error problem (most noticeable on gradients) that some people have reported since v1.1 was released."
borti4938

Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by borti4938 »

I recognized it appr. a month ago and integrated it: link to the commit.
I wish he would have contacted me, but he didn't. I saw that by accident.
I also have improved some other incritical timings a few days ago.

Firmware for vieltims board has also moved to another folder of the repository such that I can share resources with my N64RGB mod: programming files for viletims are now located in generalRGBmod/firmware/output_files/viletim

@andykara2003: Pictures are still pending on my todo list.
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Thomas83lin
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by Thomas83lin »

@borti4938 - Thanks! yeah I noticed the different location for the viletim board firmwre.
paulb_nl
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by paulb_nl »

Some people have said that S-Video has a higher brightness compared to RGB so I have done some comparing. I connected luma from an RGB cable to the component input of the OSSC and made some captures. The N64 is an early model so it has the basic RGB mod.

Here are the brightness curves from the grayramp in the 240p suite:
Image

Mario 64 S-Video luma:
Spoiler
Image
Mario 64 RGB converted to grayscale:
Spoiler
Image
Here are some bonus captures generic vs optimized OSSC:
Spoiler
Image
Optimized 320x240:
Spoiler
Image
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Syntax
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by Syntax »

Lost alot of content on that optimized shot.
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bobrocks95
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by bobrocks95 »

Syntax wrote:Lost alot of content on that optimized shot.
The camera's just moved forward, though at first glance with the doorways it does look like the sides are being cut off.
PS1 Disc-Based Game ID BIOS patch for MemCard Pro and SD2PSX automatic VMC switching.
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Syntax
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by Syntax »

It's not the camera, as the edges have bars in both pics.

There's alot of missing content either side and some top and bottom, and the aspect ratio is incorrect?
Not sure how someone can call that optimized.
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bobrocks95
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by bobrocks95 »

Syntax wrote:It's not the camera, as the edges have bars in both pics.

There's alot of missing content either side and some top and bottom, and the aspect ratio is incorrect?
Not sure how someone can call that optimized.
The in-game camera...
PS1 Disc-Based Game ID BIOS patch for MemCard Pro and SD2PSX automatic VMC switching.
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Syntax
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by Syntax »

Oh! Lol. Makes sense now. Top and bottom bars put the aspect off for me.
Not an ideal menu to use for comparison shots tho.

Nice and sharp compared to AWA I'm playing on at my sister's for Christmas, even x4 looks horrid.
tacoguy64
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by tacoguy64 »

Hey Borti, are you still taking orders for modding systems with your new board?
leonk
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by leonk »

Hey Borti, your latest IGR deblur firmware for Tim's board has this crazy left/right movement in Paper Mario.

When I turn deblur off, it goes away.
borti4938

Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by borti4938 »

@tacoguy64: No, not at the moment.

@leonk: I haven't changed anything on the debtor algorithm. But I will take a look into it. You may want to take a look into the dev_tests branch, where I simplified the algorithm a bit.
viletim
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by viletim »

borti4938 wrote:I recognized it appr. a month ago and integrated it: link to the commit.
I wish he would have contacted me, but he didn't. I saw that by accident.
I also have improved some other incritical timings a few days ago.
The change made it work on a new production batch of N64RGB boards. Without setting the nDSYNC as a global clock I had colour errors. I didn't investigate further to work out why it was necessary.
paulb_nl wrote:Some people have said that S-Video has a higher brightness compared to RGB so I have done some comparing. I connected luma from an RGB cable to the component input of the OSSC and made some captures. The N64 is an early model so it has the basic RGB mod.
It's too bright when you use a S-Video (or composite) cable from a NTSC console on a PAL console. And too dark the other way around.
paulb_nl
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by paulb_nl »

Yeah maybe some people are using the wrong cables which results in a darker image or their display is processing S-Video differently than RGB. As can be seen in the captures I posted the brightness output is exactly the same between S-Video and RGB.

I don't have an UltraHDMI but I have looked at various captures and videos of the UltraHDMI and it seems that it looks so bright because even with gamma boost off its brightening up the picture so much that its crushing the brighter colors together.

Here is a capture of the UltraHDMI by RetroRGB. The sand looks very washed out.
Image

OSSC capture with basic RGB mod. OSSC gain set very high to crush colors. The same can be achieved if you increase contrast, brightness and saturation on your TV. It looks very similar to the UltraHDMI capture.
Image

OSSC capture with gain set so white is 255 without crushing. There is more detail of the sand texture visible.
Image
networkingyuppy
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Re: Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

Post by networkingyuppy »

Something is funky with the IGR atm. I have a 240 max v chip and flashed the firmware on it with the controller signal wired up to pin 16 and reset wired up to pin 28. It seems like the controller is not recognized in game, and I can't activate the in game reset or deblur function with the controller when both of these wired are connected to Ctrl and rst on the board. I've also tried connecting CTRL from board it to the middle of the controller, and I still get the same issue.
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