Yes, I'm very late to this thread. Looks like I've got some catching up to do.
Guspaz wrote:Only slightly less insanely overpriced, and still uses the silly vertical orientation.
Horizontal orientation could be worse without an enclosure that prevents you from levering the connection. Protruding straight out the back without support is dangerous. Remember the Zeldaxpro GC Video Plug & Play debacle? I get the impression that this is a slightly customized generic enclosure and that may have been asking too much. GameTechUS even called it a “project box.” Of course, a fully custom enclosure out the back would be safer. If it seems terribly unsafe I'll just 3D print my own design.
I’m more worried about the controller port on PCE/Turbo. Those scared me years before seeing my concerns validated by others breaking theirs.
It doesn’t help that they often protrude off of your entertainment center and the connection got even smaller between TG16 and the Duo.
cr4zymanz0r wrote:I don't care about a console specific video scaler at all, but they should make a much cheaper stand-alone CD-ROM2 SD loader.
It isn’t a scaler scaler though. It has more in common with Hi-Def NES except it’s Plug’n’Play. Like Hi-Def NES, it never samples the original graphics. It replicates the graphics chip to generate perfect digital video as if it was native, then it just line-triples.
Without the potential for mishandling 240p, there’s no reason not to let your TV scale instead of something like a Framemeister. Also, nothing is stopping us from turning off the monitor’s scaling to play a bordered 720p (many can do this). I’d prefer a 5x vertical by 6x horizontal cropped multiple for 1080p/1200p displays, but I’m OK with 720p vertical. Even Hi-Def NES had to go with 4x vertical and 5x horizontal to look right on 1080p (bordered on all sides).
Guspaz wrote:Who cares what the original cost?
Uhh... you do? You asked (“previous version was $700 IIRC?”) and he answered.
Guspaz wrote:I misremembered what Jason said in his video, and didn't spot it in the Japanese text when I looked at the page.
Yeah, and you even said “IIRC” while inviting a response, which prompted the correction you asked for. Totally bizarre response after you explicitly invited the correction for your cornerstone criticism.
Guspaz wrote:If anything, that's even worse...
You thought UGX-01 was “insanely overpriced” when you thought it was $700, but $343.59 (¥38,664) is “even worse?” Uhh...
Guspaz wrote:..., that he took an incredibly overpriced product and managed to [strike]substantially increase the price even higher[/strike][disproportionately increase the value with more functionality]!
FTFY.
It went up $56 and has gained just about everything another product that didn’t exist at the time sells for $275: Terra Onion Super SD System 3. There is almost no overlap with UGX-01's functionality. Both functions are pretty big deals.
“Guspaz” wrote:The original pricepoint is still incredibly overpriced considering it can't even do 1080p, although even then it'd still be far too expensive.
It was always intended to become a P’n’P ODE with a FW update. Yes, the original ultimately delivered less value than they intended. I don’t think it’s fair to hold that against UGX-02 when determining its value.
That said, 1080p didn’t seem to be such a sticking point for you when you weighed in on the SSDSys3 after that was announced. Of course, you did take another dig at UGX-02:
Guspaz wrote:Compared to the Upergrafx 2, this thing:
- Is $120 cheaper
- Is apparently shipping (Upergrafx 2 was delayed due to quality issues)
- Has all the CD system card functionality built-in (Upergrafx requires the original cards)
- Can act as a flashcart for hucard games too
- Works on the SuprGrafx
However, this thing doesn't upscale, so you'd need to pair it with an OSSC or Framemeister to get a similar effect in terms of 720p DVI video.
You acknowledged some of the extra expense for getting comparable video quality but it didn’t end up being so comparable in the end. You need two surgeries: one to fix the video and audio on the SSDSys3 and one to remove jailbars from the console.
We didn’t know at the time, but it’s amusing that the SSDSys3’s was also suspended/delayed mid-launch due to “quality issues” (many unresolved) and the UGX-02 has now has added every single function you listed there with one minor caveat. Of course, no one expects you to know the future, but your point about SuperGrafx was wrong even for the time.
Their shared functions (flash cart, sys card, ODE) work perfectly fine on SuperGrafx with UGX-02, so it isn’t that SSDSys3 works and UGX-02 doesn’t. The only concern with SuperGrafx is that it has two VDCs and the port where UGX gets digital signals only interfaces with one. This means you’ll be missing the extra sprites from SuperGrafx-enhanced games unless you use analog output... like the SSDSys3. No one is forcing you to use digital and you’ll actually have BETTER RGB than SSDSys3 if you mod that yourself. Might as well do the jailbar fix while you’re at it.
So, the only function that doesn’t work perfectly with the enhancements for a few SuperGrafx titles is the big one that SSDSys3 doesn’t have in the first place, so it’s not some big win for team Terra Onion. The workaround is to use it like you would an SSDSys3 (analog). It’s almost as minor as the SSDSys3 shell which doesn’t quite fit the TG16.
If you must have premium analog output with it and you don’t want to RGB mod your original console, I don’t think there’s anything stopping us from getting a cheap and fast HDMI to VGA converter to use with a PVM or OSSC just like people do with RetroTink 2X. It will definitely be cheaper than sending it off to Voultar to get the audio and video fixes applied to your SSDSys3. Just don’t cheap out with a RetroTink 2X when 1080p is supposedly so important!
The “minor caveat” I mentioned above is that UGX-02’s internal System Card function doesn’t completely replicate an Arcade Card, though it does replicate an internal Super System Card which lets you use a cheaper Arcade Card Duo on systems that normally required an expensive Arcade Card Pro.
UGX-02 has more similarly-minor features that SSDSys3 does not. They added HuCard/TurboChip dumping and even the original could save digital screenshots to SD and overlay a grid. The grid is particularly useful for shmups games, which I think this forum might care about more than most.
While the SSDSys3 user experience is undeniably more refined, UGX-02 has done a bit to close the gap. They recently added a menu listing titles on the SD card. Competition is a good thing... as are options.
Guspaz wrote:I'm not arguing that the all-digital solution isn't technically superior, I'm arguing that the price is far too high to justify any advantages that the superior solution might produce.
You kinda were...
Guspaz wrote:Buy a Framemeister (or an OSSC) and an Engine Block instead, you'll get the same quality and much more flexibility. Or, if you really want to use the CD functionality, buy a Framemeister or OSSC and pay Voultar to RGB mod your console.
I have an OSSC too, but that’s primarily for consoles without options like this. I still want direct digital video, especially when I can get it on original hardware. That’s why I have Hi-Def NES, Super Nt, UltraHDMI, and GCVideo right next to it with Mega Sg on the way. It’s definitely not an either-or thing.
The OSSC still gets plenty of use for Genesis 32X, Neo Geo AES, Neo Geo CD, Saturn, PlayStation, Master System, Dreamcast, TG-CD, etc. The list will shrink if I can add UGX-02 and Mega Sg cart adapters.
That doesn’t mean I’ll never use it for the platforms with better options. UltraHDMI does not deinterlace 480i games which potentially look better with OSSC. I used it last night after I finished up mod work on two consoles:
Turbo Duo recap + Voultar RGB board + jailbar fix*
SNS-101 (1chip mini) salvage** + Voultar’s C11 ghosting fix + RetroFixes RGB/S-Video board
*Jailbars are worse through OSSC; huge advantage for a digital/UGX-02
**successfully removed, straightened, reinstalled mangled CPU/PPU
I’m not even sure what you meant by “...if you really want to use the CD functionality, buy a Framemeister or OSSC and pay Voultar to RGB mod your console.” The suggested alternative does not give comparable quality, functionality, or expense. The OSSC is not cheap and the Framemeister is even more expensive. I also had to use an $85 Turbo Everdrive. You know what else I was missing? The ODE function. The SSDSys3 wasn’t even announced so I must be missing something here.
You’ll also have the same “flexibility” if you weren’t getting your analog RGB from the expansion connector. Just do the same multi-out mod you always had to do. UGX-02 should work fine with it.
Without doing any other mods digitizing analog RGB with warts and all would be a decidedly inferior option. You will be scaling jailbars and other interference which are usually even worse once digitized. With the Duo and OSSC they look pretty distracting even after the "fix."
Staying all-digital ensures flawless video quality. Incomparable.
Guspaz wrote:We're talking about a device that costs three and a half times as much the Hi-Def NES and seven times as much as GCVideo despite both of those products having more sophisticated FPGAs.
Hi-Def NES didn’t have a built-in FDS and Everdrive and also couldn’t properly handle 1080p (no 5x vertical). It also isn’t Plug’n’Play with the original hardware, which is where much of the value lies:
I routinely sell Hi-Def NES for $500. Heck, you can even hear me discussing one such sale with the police in a viral video of mine.
I think this is a disingenuous comparison. You didn't even consider niche vs. mainstream.
Steamflogger Boss wrote:The price is a joke. I can't imagine they will sell many of these. The CDROM drive replacement part is awesome, and hopefully gets implemented in another, cheaper product.
If SSDSys3 didn't do it for ya, several others have paid lip service to the idea. Contact one of these guys and let them know you’re still interested:
ElectronAsh (was very far along; canceled after SSDSys3)
KonamiGood (HuDebug for CD-ROM² games on a TurboExpress)
Deunan (mentioned possibility of a future ODE on his GDEMU site)
Hoagtech wrote:Overpriced. And why would you code something to upscale without including multiple 240p sources.
This seems like an existing Malaysian upscaler being bought for 12 bucks and sunk into a plastic frame that sold for 410 bucks.
And who the F uses 720p?
It does not sample/capture and upscale so there wouldn’t be a place to connect other consoles. The thread title only says “upscaler” because properly handles 240p. I think it was a mistake to present it that way, since I don’t see anyone wondering why Hi-Def NES and Nt Mini don’t capture and upscale their other consoles (...and Super Nt, Mega Sg, etc but they weren’t announced at the time). 720p is a perfect 3x integer scale of 240p. 4K is a perfect integer scale of 720p. For 1080p displays the only reason to pre-scale is to do 5x cropped or 4x windowed/bordered. Plenty of 1080p displays can do windowed 720p to maintain the integer scaling.