TV RGB mod thread

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cyborc
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by cyborc »

FinalBaton wrote: cyborc, the picture is friggin stunning on your newly-modded Sharp set :shock:

Look at that luminance accuracy...
Look at those rich but super well-balanced colors...

Great job!
Thanks! I was pretty impressed by how it turned out too.
I feel like Sharp CRTs tend to get lost in the crowd when people talk about consumer CRTs. They are the real deal!
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mikejmoffitt
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by mikejmoffitt »

nakedarthur wrote:
mikejmoffitt wrote:Can you check what type of tube is in your KV-27S42? I'm on the hunt for an M68KUZ10X and I have reason to believe it may have one.
That's the one in the PVM-2950Q right? I have one with a bad tube, and tried looking for one also haha :) The Service Manual lists the KV-27S42 as using a "CRT 29NX" or Sony Part number 8-733-873-05.
Yep, I've got a PVM-2950Q that looks like it's been dropped. After repairing the cracked A-board I powered it on and found that it works, except the purity is screwy in the corners. It's possible that the deguass coil just isn't firing since I have no evidence that it is.

It looks like you can take a tube from the KV-27XBR35 but that's all I can find. I got a KV-27V42 to harvest the tube but it has an A68****** tube in it. The socket is incompatible, otherwise I would have tried to make it work!
Last edited by mikejmoffitt on Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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nakedarthur
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by nakedarthur »

mikejmoffitt wrote:
nakedarthur wrote:
mikejmoffitt wrote:Can you check what type of tube is in your KV-27S42? I'm on the hunt for an M68KUZ10X and I have reason to believe it may have one.
That's the one in the PVM-2950Q right? I have one with a bad tube, and tried looking for one also haha :) The Service Manual lists the KV-27S42 as using a "CRT 29NX" or Sony Part number 8-733-873-05.
Yep, I've got a PVM-2950Q that looks like it's been dropped. After repairing the cracked A-board I powered it on and found that it works, except the aperture grille has permanently ruined purity.

It looks like you can take a tube from the KV-27XBR35 but that's all I can find. I got a KV-27V42 to harvest the tube but it has an A68****** tube in it. The socket is incompatible, otherwise I would have tried to make it work!
Man that sucks! I also saw the KVS-29SN1 apparently has it too, but I've never seen one before. Maybe its not a North American set? The tech that did my RGB mod recommended calling Video Display as that's where he used to get his replacement tubes, but they said they haven't had any for a long time. Seems to be about impossible to find now unfortunately. Please let me know if you ever run into a cache of them :)
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Syntax
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Syntax »

@mikejmoffitt Man you have a keen eye.
Id have to laugh if the tv my brother threw out because it only took composite was actually a PVM tube.

Understand I'm in no rush to remove the back of that set as the mod is done, but I will anyway.
Ill have to start taking notes for you guys hey
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Syntax
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Syntax »

mikejmoffitt wrote:Can you check what type of tube is in your KV-27S42? I'm on the hunt for an M68KUZ10X and I have reason to believe it may have one.

M68KZT71X
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mikejmoffitt
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by mikejmoffitt »

Wow! That may be compatible. The M68 at the start indicates it is from the pro series, not the consumer A series. I will have to try to track down a 27S42.
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BobWoggle
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by BobWoggle »

Ended up getting another tv, this one I know for a fact I can do. It's a sony kv27s10, its manual is here, along with several others'.

Now because the ccd is the one feeding analog rgb and sync into the jungle instead of the osd, I should be able to pop out the ccd chip, stick my new signals in where its output was, and everything'll be fine just like that, right?

I'm still not sure if I'm oversimplifying all this in my head because I'm too dumb to get it, or if it really is such a basic hack.
Last edited by BobWoggle on Sun Sep 17, 2017 1:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Syntax
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Syntax »

Ccd probably has 470ohm termination resistors and tiny clamping caps. Always best to check the original path.
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

BobWoggle wrote:Ended up getting another tv, this one I know for a fact I can do. It's a sony kv27s10, its manual is here, along with several others'.

Now because the ccd is the one feeding analog rgb and sync into the jungle instead of the osd, I should be able to pop out the ccd chip, stick my new signals in where its output was, and everything'll be fine just like that because the jungle has some sorta automatic rgb switching on the lines the ccd uses, yeah?

I'm still not sure if I'm oversimplifying all this in my head because I'm too dumb to get it, or if it really is such a basic hack.
If it's anything like Australian Teletext models you can attach 75ohm terminated RGB lines directly to the pins of the CCD under the chassis and also connect the 5V blanking there too.

Bare in mind that I have NOT thoroughly researched your set.
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BobWoggle
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by BobWoggle »

@Syntax I would have figured the schematics would show that, no?
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Syntax
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Syntax »

Probably, but who trusts that, easy to flip the screen and just take a look at the path, sometimes they have all types of stuff connected.

Like Markoz said our teletext units should pretty much be like CCD. And most teletext hacks i've done have 400 something ohm termination resistors that need replacing.

75ohm SMD resistors and 100n caps would be handy
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mikejmoffitt
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by mikejmoffitt »

Just going to put my idea to rest and then allow the thread to continue - for any poor soul searching for a M68KUZ10X tube replacement, the KV-27S42 and KV-27V42 are not suitable replacements.. The neck pinout is different and that's enough for me to lose interest. Neither have H-STAT adjustments so that'll really fuck with things if it's missing (probably).

The KV-27XBR35 should actually have the correct tube, so if I ever find one of those I'll jump for joy.

-------

On another note, I've got a KV-27V42 in excellent condition, so I'll probably go through the work of modding that and selling it in order to make up for the stupid sunk costs of this lemon PVM-2950Q.
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Syntax
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Syntax »

BobWoggle wrote:@Syntax I would have figured the schematics would show that, no?
KV-AR29M31
Teletext module with no real info on the CXA jungle ic.

Teletext module
Image



Blanking is YS/YM but I checked the teletext blanking line and it had a termination resistor and 1k current limiting one so I left them there and just hoped for 5v injection.

Removed the 470ohm terminations and 10n caps and replaced with 75ohm and 100n
Image

Stole the teletext units plug and wired to that, wired sync and sound to the dvd channel (luma)
Image


Hacked a hole in the back and fit the scart plug, put the case back on minus 1 screw and crossed my fingers. First set put back together without testing.
Image

Now on to the Quintrix..
Last edited by Syntax on Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

Syntax wrote:
BobWoggle wrote:@Syntax I would have figured the schematics would show that, no?
KV-AR29M31
Teletext module with no real info on the CXA jungle ic.

Teletext module
Image



Blanking is YS/YM but I checked the teletext blanking line and it had a termination resistor and 1k current limiting one so I left them there and just hoped for 5v injection.

Removed the 470ohm terminations and 10n caps and replaced with 75ohm and 100n
Image

Stole the teletext units plug and wired to that, wired sync and sound to the dvd channel (luma)
Image


Hacked a hole in the back and fit the scart plug, put the case back on minus 1 screw and crossed my fingers. First set put back together without testing.
Image

Now on to the Qunitrix..
Is that a BG-3R chassis?
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Syntax
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Syntax »

Service manual that was the only thing with any info says it is yes.

Actually a really nice picture. But too bright. Will probably put higher ohm terminations in because I loose the menu at 10% brightness.
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

Syntax wrote:Service manual that was the only thing with any info says it is yes.

Actually a really nice picture. But too bright. Will probably put higher ohm terminations in because I loose the menu at 10% brightness.
You did it in a lot more complicated way than I do a BG-3R. It is one you could've just soldered 75ohm terminated lines onto the pins of the teletext board where it is inserted in the chassis.

Anyway, you got the result.

I too noted the brightness issue with this model.

On a side note, you should be able to get it to blank using the teletext button.
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

MarkOZLAD wrote:Syntax, you might be able to help with this one.

Helping another Brazillian chap do a mod.

He has a Phillips 21PT534A/78R. It has a TDA 8841 Jungle. It's another one of those that completely blanks the RGB lines at 4V, same as for Marcos.

Seeing really weird behaviour. Have connected the blanking pin to a 5V source (in fact we've tried two, the 5V regulator and the Fac Serv line for Serial Port) via a 10K pot. We can get blanking to happen but it only lasts for a short while and then the blanking stops again. TV Returns to showing only sync. As my Brazillian friend put it, it is like the blanking pin is hungry! Repeated turns of the potentiometer result in the same thing, blanking and then blanking stops after a short while.

I am a complete novice when it comes to the blanking. I've been lucky that the TVs I've modded have been dead simple to get blanking, just 5V or 5V with a pot/resistor. this one has me confounded. Any help would be appreciated.

Cheers,

Mark
Quick follow up on this one. The issue seems to have been caused by a faulty component somewhere in the chain. Still working it out, possibly a faulty pot.

It's difficult to mod a TV from half a world away through an intermediary. Fun though!

In the end, in order to get the blanking working I got them to install a AA battery. Negative to ground and positive to the blanking pin and voila, problem solved! (Blanking voltage is between 0.9V and 3.0V).

Will now try to determine what was wrong with initial setup.
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Syntax
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Syntax »

MarkOZLAD wrote:
Syntax wrote:Service manual that was the only thing with any info says it is yes.

Actually a really nice picture. But too bright. Will probably put higher ohm terminations in because I loose the menu at 10% brightness.
You did it in a lot more complicated way than I do a BG-3R. It is one you could've just soldered 75ohm terminated lines onto the pins of the teletext board where it is inserted in the chassis.

Anyway, you got the result.

I too noted the brightness issue with this model.

On a side note, you should be able to get it to blank using the teletext button.
Every Teletext unit ive worked on has had 470ohm termination resistors on the rgb line, if your adding 75 ohm ones to that your terminating by around 270 ohm. (add the resistor values and half it)
I have a feeling that these units want 470 ohm so I'm going to put them back and see what happens.

I know you can use teletext button to blank but who wants to go find a remote? I always blank the way scart should, via the console 5v line.
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

Syntax wrote:
MarkOZLAD wrote:
Syntax wrote:Service manual that was the only thing with any info says it is yes.

Actually a really nice picture. But too bright. Will probably put higher ohm terminations in because I loose the menu at 10% brightness.
You did it in a lot more complicated way than I do a BG-3R. It is one you could've just soldered 75ohm terminated lines onto the pins of the teletext board where it is inserted in the chassis.

Anyway, you got the result.

I too noted the brightness issue with this model.

On a side note, you should be able to get it to blank using the teletext button.
Every Teletext unit ive worked on has had 470ohm termination resistors on the rgb line, if your adding 75 ohm ones to that your terminating by around 270 ohm. (add the resistor values and half it)
I have a feeling that these units want 470 ohm so I'm going to put them back and see what happens.

I know you can use teletext button to blank but who wants to go find a remote? I always blank the way scart should, via the console 5v line.
My mods are working well but I'd be interested in your results. Mostly the teletext card is missing anyway and I use the empty port.

The note about the teletext blanking the screen was just meant to be a curious aside. I just install switches, take away the variables.
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Syntax
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Syntax »

Me telling people to increase the termination values to get a darker picture is wrong, you need to decrease it I'm pretty sure.

Anyway I tried decreasing it to 35 ohm but it seems the OSD menu is tied to the ext RGB lines somehow.
It caused the menu to be very dim and ghosted.
75 ohms menu was still dimmer than before I opened the set, 470 made the menu nice again and the SNES wasn't too bad but still too bright.

I traced the board out and there's nothing else connected, so it must be an internal thing.
** EDIT** Turns out they ARE tied together

Thinking they were internally linked in the jungle I removed the termination resistors from the external RGB inputs to avoid a division.
Menu is black and white, blue screen is washed out completely, But the snes brightness levels are unchanged.


If your adding 75 ohm resistors as termination for these teletext sets that already have 470 ohm ones in place
470+75 =545 /2=272/ 2=136 = Bright Menu and console.
Console wants 75, menu wants 470. :(
Last edited by Syntax on Sat Sep 16, 2017 9:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Syntax »

OK I understand what Sony have done now with these sets.

They have the OSD and the Teletext hooked up to the EXT RGB lines, They both meet at the 470 ohm terminations.
Missed it because of some white paint on the board.
Only 1 could be active at a time so it wasn't a worry a I guess. Look at it as one big OSD.

The INT RGB lines are used for the Y r-Y b-Y.

So what seems like a simple teletext hack turns into an OSD hack...

Theres no other way to run 75ohm terminations for your lines without screwing with the menu.

Time to get the switches out ffs.

Not sure how many other teletext units are like this but I do have one with a dim menu and I think I know why now.
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by BobWoggle »

Parts come in Monday and I'm bored, so I went and checked the lines between the ccd rgb and jungle rgb. There's 4.7k resistors and 10u polarized caps on each line, and I can't find any terminating resistors, which may be a little odd? Also found some vias between the caps and the resistors I should be able to stick my signals in without pulling anything, so that's neat.

Also, would anybody happen to know where I can find the rca jacks I'm after? I figured just using existing but unused holes would make life easier, but the a/v in board sits parallel to the back case so right angle won't do, and half the jacks are some sorta 3 pin deal but only one is for ground. I can only find that arrangement in right angle.
Last edited by BobWoggle on Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:36 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

Syntax wrote:OK I understand what Sony have done now with these sets.

They have the OSD and the Teletext hooked up to the EXT RGB lines, They both meet at the 470 ohm terminations.
Missed it because of some white paint on the board.
Only 1 could be active at a time so it wasn't a worry a I guess. Look at it as one big OSD.

The INT RGB lines are used for the Y r-Y b-Y.

So what seems like a simple teletext hack turns into an OSD hack...

Theres no other way to run 75ohm terminations for your lines without screwing with the menu.

Time to get the switches out ffs.

Not sure how many other teletext units are like this but I do have one with a dim menu and I think I know why now.
You're becoming a bit hard to follow. You're allowed to give yourself a small break every now and then!

I found that the people could put up with a faded OSD and moved on with life.

How many more sets left to do? Did you look at the Qunitrix? Cool name.
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Syntax »

MarkOZLAD wrote:
I found that the people could put up with a faded OSD and moved on with life.

How many more sets left to do? Did you look at the Qunitrix? Cool name.

The EXT RGB lines are used for teletext AND OSD.
The INT RGB line are rigged up for component.

All and I mean all the Sony Teletext units I have worked on have 470ohm terminations on the EXT RGB lines

When you add another 75ohm termination resistor to a line that already has a 470ohm termination the total resistance is 136ohm.
Go twist a 470 and 75 together and check it on the multimeter. Wait I just did and its way lower, its 64 ohm, Resistors are confusing.
470+75= 64ohm
470+90=75ohms, Maybe we could make a simple termination switch that links 90 ohm resistors to the RGB lines ??

So your menu is way to dim/drained because it its being grounded to heavily, It wants to sit at 470 but your putting it at 64.
The console wants 75 but it gets 64 and is grounded too much but should really be darker...

So I modded another one of those chassis thismornning, had a look at the board and its pretty much identical.

KV-xa29m31

With my new understanding of these chassis in place I ripped out the teletext module, wired a scart to its RGB-BL header and sync+audio to the component board. 5v supplied from console.
Did not change the 470ohm terminations or the coupling caps. Just wired to plugs
Put the lid on and fired it up, works as expected.
Solid menu till your running an RGB feed, and the RGB feed is too bright but can be fixed with menu set to almost 0

Feels dodgy but its the only way I can see to do these sets without an OSD switch. A proper 75ohm termination for the console would be nice.

Now who's doing it the hard way? :P
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

Syntax wrote:
MarkOZLAD wrote:
I found that the people could put up with a faded OSD and moved on with life.

How many more sets left to do? Did you look at the Qunitrix? Cool name.

The EXT RGB lines are used for teletext AND OSD.
The INT RGB line are rigged up for component.

All and I mean all the Sony Teletext units I have worked on have 470ohm terminations on the EXT RGB lines

When you add another 75ohm termination resistor to a line that already has a 470ohm termination the total resistance is 136ohm.
Go twist a 470 and 75 together and check it on the multimeter. Wait I just did and its way lower, its 64 ohm, Resistors are confusing.
470+75= 64ohm
470+90=75ohms, Maybe we could make a simple termination switch that links 90 ohm resistors to the RGB lines ??

So your menu is way to dim/drained because it its being grounded to heavily, It wants to sit at 470 but your putting it at 64.
The console wants 75 but it gets 64 and is grounded too much but should really be darker...

So I modded another one of those chassis thismornning, had a look at the board and its pretty much identical.

KV-xa29m31

With my new understanding of these chassis in place I ripped out the teletext module, wired a scart to its RGB-BL header and sync+audio to the component board. 5v supplied from console.
Did not change the 470ohm terminations or the coupling caps. Just wired to plugs
Put the lid on and fired it up, works as expected.
Solid menu till your running an RGB feed, and the RGB feed is too bright but can be fixed with menu set to almost 0

Feels dodgy but its the only way I can see to do these sets without an OSD switch. A proper 75ohm termination for the console would be nice.

Now who's doing it the hard way? :P
That sounds pretty similar to what I said all along.

XA model has S-Video too. Good pick up. Once it's RGB modded it has pretty much every input you could ask for.
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Syntax »

I will not be beat lol!

I figured out a good way to have the best of both worlds.

Leave the 470ohm resistors in the set, put 90 ohm resistors on your rgb lines and connect their tails together, wire them to a switch that grounds them.

When you flick the switch your OSD RGB lines go from 470 ohm termination to around 76ohm :D

The difference is night and day.

I was confused about you saying dim bright ect because you were always talking about your menu, your picture is probably nice and dark because your running at 60ish ohms.

For now I just have that switch wired into the snes scart header but its a solid solution to the brightness issue here. And its wayyyyy easier than doing an osd hack.
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

Syntax wrote:I will not be beat lol!

I figured out a good way to have the best of both worlds.

Leave the 470ohm resistors in the set, put 90 ohm resistors on your rgb lines and connect their tails together, wire them to a switch that grounds them.

When you flick the switch your OSD RGB lines go from 470 ohm termination to around 76ohm :D

The difference is night and day.

I was confused about you saying dim bright ect because you were always talking about your menu, your picture is probably nice and dark because your running at 60ish ohms.

For now I just have that switch wired into the snes scart header but its a solid solution to the brightness issue here. And its wayyyyy easier than doing an osd hack.
Sounds good. If I ever do a BG-3R or BG3S again I'll try and understand what you're saying :-)

I had bright picture, dim OSD. Just had to squint.
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Syntax »

Ill record a short video tonight of the switch and upload it.
All it does is switch between correct terminations for OSD and console by division.
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by BobWoggle »

Well the parts came in and I done did the thing. The hardest part was finding some volts to stick in the blanking pin; it took me an hour to decide 9 would be fine.

https://imgur.com/a/XWtDt if that's not what I call "pretty much okay," then I don't know what is. Were it not for the convergence issues this could very well have been a religious experience.
Last edited by BobWoggle on Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by buttersoft »

When you add another 75ohm termination resistor to a line that already has a 470ohm termination the total resistance is 136ohm.
wut?
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