Cloning the Gamecube component cable

[RGBSource]

Anobody saw this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUks9-jW9xw

Yup, and the inevitable occurred: https://twitter.com/MetalJesusRocks/sta ... 5415879682

Looks like zeldaxpro will have a lot of trouble to deal with!

[Lawfer]

Anobody saw this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUks9-jW9xw

Yup, and the inevitable occurred: https://twitter.com/MetalJesusRocks/sta ... 5415879682

Looks like zeldaxpro will have a lot of trouble to deal with!

Damn, I am never using any of these things.

"Plug and play... BUT it could kill your gamecube!"

[arithmaldor]

Citrus,

Would you be willing to design an analog only board? With the board you have that goes over the digital and the analog connector, this would allow an analog solution that is solder in place with zero wires or case cutting. A jumper to select RGBS or YPbPr or some way to cable select it would be the only extra option needed.

I have one designed based on the GC-Video Lite hardware using the MachXO2-640.... but I will probably never test that design because the GCDual will accomplish this exact same thing but also have and OSD. Just don't hookup the HDMI extension board and there wont be any case cutting.

Well even if you don't get around to testing it I hope that you release the design at some point. It would be nice to try to bring the cost down, though I don't know if this would end up being much less expensive than the dual option. Very impressive work so far!

[RGBSource]

Anobody saw this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUks9-jW9xw

Yup, and the inevitable occurred: https://twitter.com/MetalJesusRocks/sta ... 5415879682

Looks like zeldaxpro will have a lot of trouble to deal with!

Damn, I am never using any of these things.

"Plug and play... BUT it could kill your gamecube!"

Apparently a v3.0 PnP with "no wiggle room" is in the works. Seems like the safest route right now is the KNJN with collingall 3d printed bracket (internal installation). I have the parts and will be attempting an installation in the near future.

[Ikaruga11]

Anobody saw this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUks9-jW9xw

Yup, and the inevitable occurred: https://twitter.com/MetalJesusRocks/sta ... 5415879682

Looks like zeldaxpro will have a lot of trouble to deal with!

Jeez

Metal Jesus Rocks probably killed demand for this thing as fast as he created demand for it, when it killed his GameCube.

[Lawfer]

Anobody saw this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUks9-jW9xw

Yup, and the inevitable occurred: https://twitter.com/MetalJesusRocks/sta ... 5415879682

Looks like zeldaxpro will have a lot of trouble to deal with!

Jeez

Metal Jesus Rocks probably killed demand for this thing as fast as he created demand for it, when it killed his GameCube.

I have the original component cable so this is not an issue for me as the picture quality is already very good, but I would have liked digital audio output, some games can really take advantage of it such as Baiten Kaitos which has dreadful stereo quality, but you can fix this by getting digital audio output at 5.1 setup at Dolby Pro Logic II mode.

[paulb_nl]

Isn't it likely that the Gamecubes could be fixed by replacing a fuse? My SNES has been saved by the fuse multiple times when 5 volt was accidentally shorted to ground.

[bobrocks95]

I have the original component cable so this is not an issue for me as the picture quality is already very good, but I would have liked digital audio output, some games can really take advantage of it such as Baiten Kaitos which has dreadful stereo quality, but you can fix this by getting digital audio output at 5.1 setup at Dolby Pro Logic II mode.

Pro Logic II works over analog, no need to get a digital audio mod for that.

Isn't it likely that the Gamecubes could be fixed by replacing a fuse? My SNES has been saved by the fuse multiple times when 5 volt was accidentally shorted to ground.

I would guess that it fries the video encoder or possibly even the GPU. There wouldn't be a fuse sitting on the data line that's next to the 12V output if that's what suddenly makes contact.

[Ikaruga11]

I have the original component cable so this is not an issue for me as the picture quality is already very good, but I would have liked digital audio output, some games can really take advantage of it such as Baiten Kaitos which has dreadful stereo quality, but you can fix this by getting digital audio output at 5.1 setup at Dolby Pro Logic II mode.

Same. I have two Official GameCube Component Cables. I'm not interested in this HDMI plug-n-play version, but I am interested in the dual board that is being developed by Citrus. HDMI (New Out) + RGBs (Analog Out) + Official Component (Digital Out) + TosLink Audio (New Out) for the ultimate GameCube.

Pro Logic II works over analog, no need to get a digital audio mod for that.

Yes, but digital is slightly better due to no information loss.

[Lawfer]

Pro Logic II works over analog, no need to get a digital audio mod for that.

Yeah but it's not the same quality...

RGBs (Analog Out)

Is that native RGBs output by the console itself or a conversion? From what I am reading is that the GameCube is set-up in such a matter that the digital output of the GameCube DOL-001 is actually natively YCbCr (Nintendo doesn't like enabling RGB for their consoles) and then it's feed to the display at YPbPr by the component cable. You can technically mod the component cable to output RGB, but it won't be an ideal soplution for a number of reasons.

Obviously for RGB, a GameCube that can output natively RGBs is better than one that outputs natively YCbCr.

Pro Logic II works over analog, no need to get a digital audio mod for that.

Yes, but digital is slightly better due to no information loss.

For Baiten Kaitos games it is a peculiar situation though, it seems as if the standard audio output goes through a high compression that basically destroys the audio quality (and it sounds terrible), while I know for a fact that within the disc is contained a higher quality version of the audio files that you can get advantage of if you have the specific setup to "unlock" the higher quality audio.

[bobrocks95]

Audio quality is extremely close and it's unlikely you could tell the difference. Lawfer's original sentence read like you needed digital output to get Pro Logic II, which is the only thing I was addressing anyway.

RGB is converted from YCbCr, yes. Internal RGB rendering is impossible for commercial software.

For Baiten Kaitos games it is a peculiar situation though, it seems as if the standard audio output goes through a high compression that basically destroys the audio quality (and it sounds terrible), while I know for a fact that within the disc is contained a higher quality version of the audio files that you can get advantage of if you have the specific setup.

Bypassing the console's audio DAC won't change the audio stream the game is using.

[Lawfer]

Bypassing the console's audio DAC won't change the audio stream the game is using.

Some games have in-game options, you'll be able to hear the difference if you have the hardware in Baiten Kaitos and a few other games.

Audio quality is extremely close and it's unlikely you could tell the difference.

What kind of audio setup do you have? You can definitly hear the difference between RCA White/Red Stereo Audio Output and Toslink/HDMI audio output...

[leonk]

This is how I do installs now for customers. Using the Pluto IIx board with 3D printed panel. No glue, no cuts.

I like the Pluto boards because they only cost a few $$ more than making your own but saves me hours of work (unless you are ordering huge batches to have any sort of discount from places like Digikey)

[Unseen]

The DAC has a reference resistor that could be lowered and in theory raise the voltage on the RGB output. Unseen more than likely would have a software way of doing this as well.

Playing with the reference resistor would also be my recommendation - in video terms, it should the white point for RGB and probably the white point as well as the saturation for YPbPr.

The software way is possible in theory, but there are some complications. For GCVideo Lite, the desired settings would need to be baked into the design at synthesis time - there is no UI, not enough resources (by far) to add one and even if there were one, the chip doesn't have hardware multipliers so multiplying the video data with a non-constant value (e.g. to change the brightness or saturation) would eat lots of logic resources. The FPGA used for GCVideo-DVI does have hardware multipliers, but currently 14 out of the 16 available ones are in use. I could free up some resources by removing the variable OSD transparency and color, but I don't know if there is still enough space in the chip for a full set of brightness/contrast/saturation "knobs" - 97% of the logic slices are already used.

[bobrocks95]

Bypassing the console's audio DAC won't change the audio stream the game is using.

Some games have in-game options, you'll be able to hear the difference if you have the hardware in Baiten Kaitos and a few other games.

You're still able to change the in-game option to surround whether you have analog or digital audio out.

Audio quality is extremely close and it's unlikely you could tell the difference.

What kind of audio setup do you have? You can definitly hear the difference between RCA White/Red Stereo Audio Output and Toslink/HDMI audio output...

I'll admit it's a fairly low-end Sony receiver, but for every game console digital mod I've read about or heard myself, the only discernible difference is that analog buzzing is eliminated (if it was there to begin with) to make it sound a bit cleaner. Speakers are analog anyway, you're just trading the console DAC for the receiver's DAC.

Would you consider yourself an audiophile? Maybe you have a much better ear than I or people who've written about digital mods do?

[Ikaruga11]

Is that native RGBs output by the console itself or a conversion? From what I am reading is that the GameCube is set-up in such a matter that the digital output of the GameCube DOL-001 is actually natively YCbCr (Nintendo doesn't like enabling RGB for their consoles) and then it's feed to the display at YPbPr by the component cable.

I don't think it's native, but rather created by the board. PAL GameCubes output Sync-on-Composite RGB, which I heard is less than stellar and can show checkerboard patterns.

And yeah, it's pretty weird.

You can technically mod the component cable to output RGB, but it won't be an ideal solution for a number of reasons.

Yeah, someone's done it.

https://youtu.be/PmhezQOY69M

While it looks nice, it doesn't look any better than Component and in fact may even be worse due to the color space conversion and using the incorrect color space.

Obviously for RGB, a GameCube that can output natively RGBs is better than one that outputs natively YCbCr.

All RGB signals are derived from the YCbCr signal inside the GameCube. From what I've heard, it's impossible to get a pure RGB signal straight from the video chip.

[citrus3000psi]

Apparently a v3.0 PnP with "no wiggle room" is in the works. Seems like the safest route right now is the KNJN with collingall 3d printed bracket (internal installation). I have the parts and will be attempting an installation in the near future.

Not sure what you mean by safest route. My GCHDMI is very safe, and is easier to install than the KNJN. But thats not including the assembly of the PCB.

I have designed another board (HDMI ONLY) One that will connect up to collingall's 3D printed digital out. I still need to design a 3d printed case though. But I it will stick out the back 3cm. Hdmi port will come straight out the back. Is this to deep?

[Lawfer]

Would you consider yourself an audiophile?

You don't need to be an audiophile to notice that difference between RCA White/Red Audio output result and HDMI/Toslink audio which sound much better than RCA White/Red output, it's not rocket science.

Get a 5.1 setup (Receiver+5.1 Speakers+subwoofer setup)

Try PS2 stereo RCA White/Red audio output then compare it to Toslink audio output. Toslink sound alot better.

Beside this, some very few games have such bad audio that even using Toslink won't deliver a good result, I noticed that with Disgaea: Hour of Darkness on PS2 (blue disc).

I have also noticed that on the Original Xbox for some reason, games developed exclusively for the Xbox had great sound with Toslink (Original Xbox can output Dolby Digital with Toslink), while games that were instead ported (rather than developed) for the Xbox also outputed Dolby Digital too but they sounded alot more flat and low volume than the Xbox exclusives.

[bobrocks95]

For the PS2 I remember TOSlink being much louder than analog, but louder doesn't mean better. I didn't take a lot of time out to do a back-and-forth comparison and just stuck with the digital audio. Back-and-forth with GCVideo's HDMI output I couldn't tell a difference either (again there was a volume difference though).

On another digital audio mod, to quote BuckoA51 from his own site where he even sells an upgrade board and installation service:

Pairing the SNES with a good analogue and digital audio system that processes stereo material well, we thought the sound from the digital output was a little better, but honestly we would struggle to tell the difference in a double-blind style test. Where this upgrade does excel is cutting out analogue interference.

Some volume-equalized recordings would be nice to hear for comparison's sake though, if it helps to convince anyone that they should get these mods.

[leonk]

Not sure what you mean by safest route. My GCHDMI is very safe, and is easier to install than the KNJN. But thats not including the assembly of the PCB.

That is a *HUGE* but! I strongly suggest you offer your solution as an assembled kit. If a person can't desolder a 22 pin connector and solder 18 wires, they sure as heck won't be able to assemble your new design.

I find the KNJN to be an easy install. About the same level as an NESRGB (with less cutting)

[FinalBaton]

For PS2 : while the console has an okay DAC, it pales in comparison to that of an early PS1. That's why I recommend using the PS2's optical out and sending that into a quality standalone DAC (or an amp/receiver/HT that has a quality DAC). This sounds noticeably better than using the PS2's analog audio out (well, to a crazy audiophile like me anyway. There's nothing fundamently wrong with the PS2 analog outs. they just happen to sound tiny)

[Lawfer]

For PS2 : while the console has an okay DAC, it pales in comparison to that of an early PS1. That's why I recommend using the PS2's optical out and sending that into a quality standalone DAC (or an amp/receiver/HT that has a quality DAC).

That's exactly what I am doing and that's what I am saying, PS2+Toslink+Hardware sound alot better than PS2+Analogue RCA+Hardware.

And yep, some PS1 had a high quality audio output, unfortunally PS1 did not have any toslink audio output capabilities, though you could mod it in on some models.

[RGBSource]

Apparently a v3.0 PnP with "no wiggle room" is in the works. Seems like the safest route right now is the KNJN with collingall 3d printed bracket (internal installation). I have the parts and will be attempting an installation in the near future.

Not sure what you mean by safest route. My GCHDMI is very safe, and is easier to install than the KNJN. But thats not including the assembly of the PCB.

My post wasn't directed at your GCVideo PCB designs. That said, having a preassembled kit to install is really convenient!

I have designed another board (HDMI ONLY) One that will connect up to collingall's 3D printed digital out.

Cool. Have you shared this on OSHPark?

[AetherSmyth]

Welp, I've escalated my claim with BadAssConsoles to PayPal. Ordered a bare analog board back in February without seeing some of the concerns voiced here, but I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt even after I learned more about how things had been going. No way was I going to let it pass the PayPal protection period, though, and he had completely ignored my email requesting an amicable refund. I know people have spoken well of him in the past, but the fact is that the advertising on his website alone could be considered fraudulent, given that it doesn't give any indication that his GCVideo products are anything less then ready to ship.

Ah, well, time to figure out a new solution. I know a lot of options are available now with the DVI version, but I'd prefer to stick with the lite, as analog video fits into my retro gaming setup more easily. I didn't see anything in a scan of the thread, but is anyone else offering any kind of preassembled GCVideo lite board anywhere?

Otherwise, what exists in the way of GCVideo lite board designs to print myelf? There's Unseen's 0.9 design, but he warns of a few issues with that. Is the hybrid DVI/lite version going to be publicly available? Has anyone else put together any other lite versions?

Finally, really cool to see the 3D-printed digital header. My city's library offers 3D-printing services, so I might take a stab at doing an external version if possible. Does anyone know the correct term for the type of pins used in the header (mentioned on the Thingiverse page as having been cannibalized from a PCI slot, but said to also be available for sale online)? I tried searching eBay with a few guesses but didn't turn up anything useful.

[citrus3000psi]

Is the hybrid DVI/lite version going to be publicly available? Has anyone else put together any other lite versions?

Finally, really cool to see the 3D-printed digital header. My city's library offers 3D-printing services, so I might take a stab at doing an external version if possible. Does anyone know the correct term for the type of pins used in the header (mentioned on the Thingiverse page as having been cannibalized from a PCI slot, but said to also be available for sale online)? I tried searching eBay with a few guesses but didn't turn up anything useful.

Yes I plan on releasing files. I also hope to sell preassembled kits as well.

The pins were pulled from pcie slots. Do a search on eBay for pcie connector slots. I'm not sure where to get other than reaching out to factories in China. I was told the pins remove easily.

Cool. Have you shared this on OSHPark?

No but I plan too. I will more than likely build one first to verify everything works and fits together as it should. One issue is that the vertical pin spacing is around 6mm apart. So I've designed 2 boards that are soldered to the pins and than sandwich the main pcb. The boards will all need to be 2mm thickness.



Different note, hdmi portion of gcdual works. Just need to wire up some jacks and test the rgb

[Ikaruga11]

Different note, hdmi portion of gcdual works. Just need to wire up some jacks and test the rgb

Awesome

[gordon-creAtive]

In case used Gamecube component cables weren't expensive enough you can now get one sealed for just under 700USD.

[Blair]

does anybody actually pay those prices? because I could definitely part with some original NGC component cables for that much cash.

[gordon-creAtive]

Well I can't imagine why you'd buy a sealed component cable for 700USD. It's not like you can display that on you shelf like a gaming console in the same condition. It's meant to be used and it works exactly as the 200USD used ones. And simply unsealing the cable for usage costs you about 500USD. This is insane.

[Lawfer]

Ah, well, time to figure out a new solution. I know a lot of options are available now with the DVI version

Where can you see info on this DVI version?