TV RGB mod thread

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Pikkon
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Pikkon »

KnuckleheadFlow wrote:
Pikkon wrote:Have all of my parts to mod my KV-32FS100 to output RGB.

Now do I need to take the blanking pin out of circuit,just want to make sure before I do any work on my crt.
Check the schematics and look for a diode somewhere on the blanking line between the micro outputting the OSD and the jungle IC's input. If it has one, you're ok in leaving the blanking connected. If doesn't have one, you can either add a diode yourself before the DC blanking you'll be adding or you can switch it along with the RGB signals.

And to toot my own horn, if you haven't seen it yet, take a look at the circuit board I've had made that makes this whole mod simpler, cleaner and easier (maybe even a little cheaper): http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=60330
Awesome,there's a diode so I'll leave the blanking pin in circuit and are you going to sell any of your boards,would definitely buy one.
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KnuckleheadFlow
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by KnuckleheadFlow »

I ordered 40, they sent me 80 lmao!
E: I'll keep like 10 for myself, another 25 or so are spoken for, so 45 are up for grabs.
MarkOZLAD
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

Please add my thread RGB OSD TV Mod - Sony KV-XF21M30 to the success list on the front page. I revisited this TV last night and made some changes and can confirm that it is running RGB via Scart.

Sony Trinitron's with BG-3S chassis are perfect targets for RGB modding because they can have the 75 Ohm terminated RGB and blanking signals fed in through the Teletext port CN307 (mine was unpopulated), 5V for blanking can easily be accessed at the 5V regulator (IC 604) output and the composite video can be fed into the AV port for Synch.

Pretty much anyone who can solder can perform this task. No snipping/board hacking/pin bending necessary.

Also, the OSD continues to work with this mod and just switching the 5V line off returns the TV to normal AV operation (composite input).

The convergence issue I am having with this set is unrelated. I'll sort it out.
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MarkOZLAD
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"Imagine toggle switch OSD modding a TV in 2019" - maxtherabbit
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keeper7
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by keeper7 »

Hello, everyone!
I'm about to attempt this mod but I have a problem.
My TV doesn't have composite input, only RF.
Is it possible to perform RGB modification?

Service manual:
https://unnisol.000webhostapp.com/pdf/TC2098.pdf

Jungle IC:
https://unnisol.000webhostapp.com/pdf/TDA8362.pdf

Thanks
syboxez
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by syboxez »

Can report a wonderful success on an Orion TV1933A using the method on the OP. It simply looks incredible. Yet another successful RGB mod.

http://imgur.com/a/cNJB9
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KnuckleheadFlow
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by KnuckleheadFlow »

MarkOZLAD wrote:Please add my thread RGB OSD TV Mod - Sony KV-XF21M30 to the success list on the front page. I revisited this TV last night and made some changes and can confirm that it is running RGB via Scart.

Sony Trinitron's with BG-3S chassis are perfect targets for RGB modding because they can have the 75 Ohm terminated RGB and blanking signals fed in through the Teletext port CN307 (mine was unpopulated), 5V for blanking can easily be accessed at the 5V regulator (IC 604) output and the composite video can be fed into the AV port for Synch.

Pretty much anyone who can solder can perform this task. No snipping/board hacking/pin bending necessary.

Also, the OSD continues to work with this mod and just switching the 5V line off returns the TV to normal AV operation (composite input).

The convergence issue I am having with this set is unrelated. I'll sort it out.
So simple. Are these TVs Australia/NZ only?
syboxez wrote:Can report a wonderful success on an Orion TV1933A using the method on the OP. It simply looks incredible. Yet another successful RGB mod.
Never heard of Orion so I don't know if it's a "good" brand or whatever, but if it isn't, just goes to show even plain, nothing special TVs can end up looking really good!
keeper7 wrote:Hello, everyone!
I'm about to attempt this mod but I have a problem.
My TV doesn't have composite input, only RF.
Is it possible to perform RGB modification?

Service manual:
https://unnisol.000webhostapp.com/pdf/TC2098.pdf

Jungle IC:
https://unnisol.000webhostapp.com/pdf/TDA8362.pdf

Thanks
I'm sure it can, but I've never tried. Pin 15 is external composite video, the schematic shows it's not connected, the datasheet says the TDA8360 has external composite disconnected. So much for that. Perhaps internal CVBS (composite) on pin 13 could be used? Read up on the "internal CVBS" stuff in the datasheet and look at the circuit in the schematic. Seems promising but I've never tried something like this.

If that doesn't lead anywhere, I'm pretty sure I saw someone's mod (in this thread?) where they connected sync directly.
Last edited by KnuckleheadFlow on Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
syboxez
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by syboxez »

Orion is a budget TV brand here in the US. They made very low quality CRTs. For instance, the particular one I modded has absolutely zero shielding, hence the color distortion (when I move it around, the areas with the distortion changes).

I'm thinking of lining the inside with copper tape and grounding it, but I'm probably not going to be using it that much. My main TV is still my 32" Sony with an RGB to component transcoder (can't RGB mod it sadly).
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Pikkon
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Pikkon »

Pretty much done modding my KV-32FS100,will post some pics in a few days.
MarkOZLAD
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

KnuckleheadFlow wrote:So simple. Are these TVs Australia/NZ only?
I don't know but the thought did cross my mind that these TVs would be limited to certain regions.

Here is a list of all TVs with that chassis.

The BG-3R is very similar. Here is a list for it.

TylerL had a very similar mod, even easier to do because his had a 5V in the Closed Captioning socket and the socket was there so he didn't even need to solder. His was with the BA1 chassis which appears to have had widespread North American distribution. Here is a list of models.
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Seikenfreak
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Seikenfreak »

So I think I'm picking up a Toshiba 20AF41 tomorrow that appears to be in excellent shape. I picked this model in particular because I bought one new over a decade ago, eventually upgrading and passing the Toshiba along to a friend, and then onto his siblings, finally dying etc. It was an excellent TV.

I had no idea this whole CRT RGB mod was a thing until searched earlier today and Knuckle's post came up about this particular TV.

Anyway, I am very curious about doing this mod on mine. I've dabbled a little in electronics, I'm no stranger to taking things apart, and I have experience with soldering wires and surface mount stuff. What I DON'T have experience with, and might as well be hieroglyphics to me, are schematics and stuff lol

So the original post on the 20AF41 is a little confusing after the initial resistor removal and wire jump. I'm still not exactly sure what the switch is for? Toggling inputs? Not exactly sure what I'm looking at for the paragraph with the switch. Also just the one pictures and it's hard to see everything.

Is there any way that this can be broken down and made more straight forward? Potentially for anyone else in the future wishing to do the same thing on this TV? I have a feeling this is going to be a popular mod for nice consumer CRTs. So, that being said..

1. What components do I need to buy and where? (Switch, plugs, capacitors etc)
2. A simple color coded MSpaint picture of the PCB marking what wires go from point A to point B.

That's about all I need really. I'd be happy to make some guide pics or a parts list myself if I can successfully complete the project.

I'd appreciate any help I can get. I'm going to keep reading through this thread trying to learn what I can.
Last edited by Seikenfreak on Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bratwurst
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Bratwurst »

syboxez wrote:Can report a wonderful success on an Orion TV1933A using the method on the OP. It simply looks incredible. Yet another successful RGB mod.

http://imgur.com/a/cNJB9
Coincidentally, I just got RGB input working on an Orion TV1334A (13") last night. I had to wire a few resistors to bring down VCC to 4.7V on the blanking pin of M61250BFP before it would display, I interpreted the datasheet as implying that it wanted a signal between 4 and 5 volts for external RGB input because 5V just blacked everything out. All video lines went into pre-established capacitors just before the input pins. Composite sync went to TV/Y IN (pin 41) because EXT C IN (pin 38 composite input) won't work while blanking is active. Certainly a great upgrade on a set that originally only offered RF and composite. It is a cheap budget set for sure, originally no s-video, only one speaker, RCA in the front and coaxial only in the back.

The service manual for Durabrand DBTV1301 had all the information I needed because it uses the exact same chassis part number, so if you can't find documentation on your specific set, try searching the chassis. Manufacturers rebranded sets all the time for different retailers like Walmart and Kmart, etc.

As an aside, given that many of these sets fail to come with their remote controls the JUMBO/oversized universal remotes made by Decibel Electronics (designed for the elderly and visually impaired) are consistently great for accessing every little thing on a television, and support a wide range of devices. It can be difficult to find a universal remote that have the menu, input, enter and display button at the same time. Just make sure you get the code booklet with it.
MarkOZLAD
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

Have just completed modding a Sony KV-XJ29M31, however I am getting a fine grained "checkerboard" effect.

Has anyone else run into this? Should I get a LM1881 Video Sync Seperator and build a sync stripper? My device is outputting Composite video as synch.

I think I've read about this on this thread before but it's becoming so long and hard to search through now, especially with all the broken photobucket links.
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Pikkon
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Pikkon »

For your rgb cables it's best to use csync or luma,that should fix your problem.
MarkOZLAD
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

Pikkon wrote:For your rgb cables it's best to use csync or luma,that should fix your problem.
I'm going to build a LM1881 based sync stripper into the TV with an on/off switch, even if only for the practice.

Want this TV to have every option it needs.
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OSD/External RGB Mux Diagram
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"Imagine toggle switch OSD modding a TV in 2019" - maxtherabbit
Ryoandr
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Ryoandr »

MarkOZLAD wrote: I'm going to build a LM1881 based sync stripper into the TV with an on/off switch, even if only for the practice.

Want this TV to have every option it needs.
The problem if you do that is the signals are still getting poluted during all the cable length.
The earlier the sources are cleaned the better.
MarkOZLAD
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

Ryoandr wrote:
MarkOZLAD wrote: I'm going to build a LM1881 based sync stripper into the TV with an on/off switch, even if only for the practice.

Want this TV to have every option it needs.
The problem if you do that is the signals are still getting poluted during all the cable length.
The earlier the sources are cleaned the better.
That's good to know.

I noticed my device has S-Video output, I think I'll extract the Luma and use it as synch and see what results I get.
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OSD/External RGB Mux Diagram
OSD/External RGB Mux Resistor Value Table 0.7Vp-p : 0.5Vp-p

"Imagine toggle switch OSD modding a TV in 2019" - maxtherabbit
MarkOZLAD
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

Well the luma didn't sync correctly. Might be my ghetto wiring, maybe its slightly out of sync from a seperate port. Doesn't matter a lot right now.

After I did some experimenting I realised the issue is with my Scart Composite video breakout wiring. The effect I'm seeing is because of noise getting in somehow. I can confirm this because if I take the Composite video directly from the outputs of my device via high quality cables, the issue disappears.

Will try and rewire with some shielded cables.
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OSD/External RGB Mux Diagram
OSD/External RGB Mux Resistor Value Table 0.7Vp-p : 0.5Vp-p

"Imagine toggle switch OSD modding a TV in 2019" - maxtherabbit
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Einzelherz
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Einzelherz »

Seikenfreak wrote:So I think I'm picking up a Toshiba 20AF41 tomorrow that appears to be in excellent shape.
FWIW it's a lot easier and safer to just get a quality RGB-Component converter for this tv since it accepts component (based on what I'm seeing in its specs). It'll probably be more expensive though.
Seikenfreak
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Seikenfreak »

Einzelherz wrote:
Seikenfreak wrote:So I think I'm picking up a Toshiba 20AF41 tomorrow that appears to be in excellent shape.
FWIW it's a lot easier and safer to just get a quality RGB-Component converter for this tv since it accepts component (based on what I'm seeing in its specs). It'll probably be more expensive though.
Nah, I'm really in it for the project at this point. Love messing with things and getting technical. Something about installing a SCART socket on a TV and making it look and work as OE as possible makes me warm and fuzzy inside.

I have RGB cables for PS1/2, Saturn/Genesis, Nintendo.. plus Jaguar on the way 8) It would be nice to just plug the cables directly in. As it stands, all of these systems look amazing on my 55" LG 4K OLED with the XRGB Mini so I'm not too concerned about visuals, but I am curious to see this mod in person and if it makes as much of a difference as people say it does.

And I got the lovely TV already! $20

Just S-Video for now.

Image

I've already ordered a bunch of odds and ends. Just need to wait for stuff to arrive. And if Knuckle gets back to me I'd be thrilled to try his PCB out.

Something else I'm curious about, I haven't researched it, and I wouldn't expect to be in this thread, is upgrading the built in speakers on the TV. Finding some small awesome speaker setup and if it's possible to wire that in. I'd assume you'd need some kind of better sound amplifier setup but yea.. Veeeeery curious.
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Einzelherz
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Einzelherz »

I completely understand that reasoning. I'd love to add RGB to some older 1980s sets just for fun.
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Pikkon
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Pikkon »

Finally done with everything and it turned out great,want to thank everyone in this thread for sharing there knowledge,never knew rgb was this great.

This was done on a sony trinitron kv-32fs100.

Click on the pictures for full size.
Image Image Image Image
Image Image Image


I only have two rgb cables for now,made one for my saturn and modified a genesis one,both are using csync and I'm using sync on Y on the component of my tv.
lukilla
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by lukilla »

Ps.- Nevermind, the actual chassis is silksreened for hot/cold areas, despite being rf only :D


Spoiler
So is it ok to rgb mod a hot chassis tv as long as it is connected to a voltage regulator?:

http://media.www.bestbuy.com.mx/media/c ... 353_x1.jpg

edit.- I guess not, just tested one and it is not open line on neutral. Gonna look for some DIY because this tv picture looks so good :P
MarkOZLAD
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

MarkOZLAD wrote:Well the luma didn't sync correctly. Might be my ghetto wiring, maybe its slightly out of sync from a seperate port. Doesn't matter a lot right now.

After I did some experimenting I realised the issue is with my Scart Composite video breakout wiring. The effect I'm seeing is because of noise getting in somehow. I can confirm this because if I take the Composite video directly from the outputs of my device via high quality cables, the issue disappears.

Will try and rewire with some shielded cables.
So after hours of troubleshooting I tracked the issue down to a.... CHEAP SCART CABLE!!!

Plugged in my super dooper one I purchased a while back and the picture is perfect.

So running Composite Video as sync is fine when RGB modding a SONY KV-XJ29M31.

Now to find somewhere good to mount the blanking switch.
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Syntax
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Re: 27" Trinitron to RGB mod success (KV-27S42)

Post by Syntax »

Voultar wrote:
mikejmoffitt wrote: I haven't solved the H-shift yet. The extron device did not help (SS-200). I am thinking of internalizing a CXA1645 in the TV just to generate a "composite" signal from the incoming sync, which should produce the exactly correct amount of delay on the sync line. I will use that composite only for the sake of driving the TV's input to get a shifted sync signal.

You can often drive and manipulate the H-Phase by a pin on the Jungle I/C. Allowing you far more control than what the service menu provides.

Image

When I add RGB to a consumer set, I look for a pin on the Jungle I/C that can totally control the H-Phase, It's typically driven by a low voltage current.

It's better to do it this way, because you can use the 5V rail coming from a console to drive this pin. Take a 10K trim pot (will give enough play) with 5V and output it to the pin, sweep it across until you get it lined up nicely.

Now, when a console is powered, the 5v will dialed in with the 10K trim pot so that the the horizontal position will automatically be calibrated for RGB.

(This is providing that your RGB cables have a 5v output)

You can also use a switch, of course. A 6PDT is enough to switch your OSD and RGB lines, as well as 5v from the TV to control this.


Just look at the datasheet for your Jungle I/C.

Want to know a real quick way to kill a tube? Cut that LF2FIL pin and leave it floating...
I stupidly thought no voltage was going to be the furthest right. Took about 2 seconds to pop the tube.

Please edit your post to include a warning for idiots like me lol.
TheMagpyeTrader
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by TheMagpyeTrader »

Hello all! I've been doing console mods for a while and wanted to have a go with this.

My first test subject was literally on the side of the road with its cord cut. Poor dear!

Anyway after throwing a new cord on it works great! Only problem is I can't get the sync in correctly.

According to the service manual I've got my blanking and RGB lines in right. The OSD is gone and I'm getting a distorted RGB signal.

https://ibb.co/fV3jSF

I've tried pins 18, 41 and the composite in pin on the front of the board, with and without a sync stripper with no change.

What do you suppose I'm doing wrong?

Thank you ever so much for you time!
MarkOZLAD
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by MarkOZLAD »

Forgive me if you've already done this stuff but I'll put a checklist...

1) Are the RGB lines 75 Ohm terminated to ground?
2) Have you tried pumping the Csync/Composite Video through an AV port and then changing to the AV input, turn on blanking and RGB output device? I have never pumped sync directly to a pin.
3) Is the screen going black when you turn on the blanking with no RGB feed?

It's not unusual for the OSD to become faded/off colour.

What model number is the TV?
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"Imagine toggle switch OSD modding a TV in 2019" - maxtherabbit
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Bratwurst
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by Bratwurst »

TheMagpyeTrader wrote:Hello all! I've been doing console mods for a while and wanted to have a go with this.

My first test subject was literally on the side of the road with its cord cut. Poor dear!

Anyway after throwing a new cord on it works great! Only problem is I can't get the sync in correctly.

According to the service manual I've got my blanking and RGB lines in right. The OSD is gone and I'm getting a distorted RGB signal.

https://ibb.co/fV3jSF

I've tried pins 18, 41 and the composite in pin on the front of the board, with and without a sync stripper with no change.

What do you suppose I'm doing wrong?

Thank you ever so much for you time!
I worked on that exact same chroma chip with my 13" Orion. You may just not be on the right channel/video input for the sync to come through, for my set for example I had to select 'Aux' when running sync through the composite jack, and when I ran it into pin 41 TV/Y IN (through C629 first to protect the chip) it had to be on channel 2/3. If you're piping c-sync into the composite jack make sure it's properly attenuated for the 75 ohm input.
TheMagpyeTrader
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by TheMagpyeTrader »

MarkOZLAD wrote:Forgive me if you've already done this stuff but I'll put a checklist...

1) Are the RGB lines 75 Ohm terminated to ground?
2) Have you tried pumping the Csync/Composite Video through an AV port and then changing to the AV input, turn on blanking and RGB output device? I have never pumped sync directly to a pin.
3) Is the screen going black when you turn on the blanking with no RGB feed?

It's not unusual for the OSD to become faded/off colour.

What model number is the TV?
Yes to all of those questions, it's an Orion 1934
Bratwurst wrote:
I worked on that exact same chroma chip with my 13" Orion. You may just not be on the right channel/video input for the sync to come through, for my set for example I had to select 'Aux' when running sync through the composite jack, and when I ran it into pin 41 TV/Y IN (through C629 first to protect the chip) it had to be on channel 2/3. If you're piping c-sync into the composite jack make sure it's properly attenuated for the 75 ohm input.
So you mean a 75ohm resistor to ground like my RGB lines then? My input is set to AUX and I tried other channels as well. Same result.
bimm25i
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by bimm25i »

suprcrackers wrote:You know what's frustrating? When you mod your second larger than 27" Trinitron, this time it was the KV-36FS13 and you are left with a great bright, sharp but flawed RGB picture. All of this is because the CSYNC fed to luma goes through some stupid post processing that delays the image a hair of a second. OH THE HUMANITY!!! THIS THING WEIGHS 200 POUNDS AND DOESN'T WORK RIGHT!!!

Hi I also have a KV-36FS13 I am looking to RGB mod,

is it possible for you to take any pictures of the mod work? Once modded does the TV work with CGA, EGA, and VGA resolutions through RGB?

I am PM'ing you my contact info, if you're available for a 10 minute call sometime I would LOVE to pick your brain.
bimm25i
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Re: TV RGB mod thread

Post by bimm25i »

suprcrackers wrote:
roush97 wrote:I've been reading about this RGB mod for a couple weeks now. I'm good with electronics and soldering, but have never messed with a CRT. I could use a little guidance. I'm attempting to add RGB to a JVC AV-27230. My Micon and Jungle IC chips seem nearly identical to KnuckleheadFlow's chips.

Image

Image

However, I'm not sure where the blanking signal is. Also, my Micon RGB outs aren't labeled as OSD. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Is this TV not a good candidate? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Mike
Image

The blanking pin is #19 on the TB1253AN followed by 20-22 for R, G ,and B respectively. They are just right for RGB at 0.7Vp-p.


Hoping to reach user Supercrackers - I have a KV-36FS13 that I want to RGB mod but I have a ton of questions:

can I use this board to hookup my RBG feed from a Jamma harness
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=60330

Do you have any pictures of your install on the KV-36FS13? I have the same model and I want to make this beautiful beast work with my Point Blank PCB.

Do you know if, after the mod, the TV will support 15Khz, 25Khz and 31 KHz signals through the RGB input?

Thank you so much!


Backstory: I have a Maximum Force Showcase cabinet that I am making into a Gauntlet Legends, but I want to still be able to play 15Khz games and GL at 31KHz. My Trinitron, using Y,Pb,Pr has a nicer picture than any arcade monitor I've come across, and If I could get 25 Khz or 31 KHz out of it for a Dark Legacy PCB I'm getting it would be the PERFECT solution for the cabinet. It would let me use any of my consoles AND any of my PCB's and it would also be on the nicest sharpest screen I've seen in a long time. Any help making my dream a reality is appreciated. Thanks all!
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