Nintendo 64 RGB Blur fixing

[strygo]

So I followed Tim's latest instructions to install the ground connection. It successfully removes the jailbars, but it seems to introduce a weird discoloration at times (most prominently in Mario's nose in the Mario 64 intro). I thought maybe I made a mistake on the soldering, but I've been able to confirm that if I disconnect the wire from a screw, the jailbars return and the discoloration goes away. Connecting the wire reproduces the problem. Does anyone else see this? Know what I might have done wrong? I will post a picture if needed.

Spoiler

Above is the discoloration I see with the ground connection established. When I remove the connection, the discoloration here and in other games goes away. What am I doing wrong?

[sonicjhn]

So I followed Tim's latest instructions to install the ground connection. It successfully removes the jailbars, but it seems to introduce a weird discoloration at times (most prominently in Mario's nose in the Mario 64 intro). I thought maybe I made a mistake on the soldering, but I've been able to confirm that if I disconnect the wire from a screw, the jailbars return and the discoloration goes away. Connecting the wire reproduces the problem. Does anyone else see this? Know what I might have done wrong? I will post a picture if needed.

Spoiler

Above is the discoloration I see with the ground connection established. When I remove the connection, the discoloration here and in other games goes away. What am I doing wrong?

I also had this issue before. Installing again with shorter wires and getting rid of the fine pitch adapter solved the problem.

[CobraKing]

There won't be a "final" set of button combinations! Read through this readme:
https://github.com/borti4938/n64rgb/blo ... .README.md
I linked that above, too.

If someone don't want to have the reset functionality, just leave out the wire to reset (PIF-NUS pin 27). This is also stated in a readme: https://github.com/borti4938/n64rgb/blo ... /README.md

@borti4938, I had a chance to try out your latest firmware with IGR combo '1' and everything worked perfectly. I played a few games that used both the D-Pad & Analog sticks for movement and did not trigger any accidental resets.

Your updated heuristic also does not activate the De-Blur feature for the AKI wrestling games (Wrestlemania 2000 & No Mercy). Thank you again for all your work, it's greatly appreciated.

[citrus3000psi]

I did a different install style this time. Mounting tim's board to the bottom of the PCB allows for much shorter wires. I also ditched the ribbon cable, as its easier to use solid core wire. Cutting the metal housing is required for this way. The results are perfect.









I replaced the original double stick tape with double stick foam. Then I placed a thick a piece of foam on top of the fpga to make sure the board never comes loose.

[leonk]

Just a couple observations on above install.

1) When you say ribbon cable, you mean the multi core rainbow cable that came with the kit. You don't mean the pin adapter (you have a DENC or VDC NUS there). I would guess a -03 PCB. I think some installers (like Voultar) would poo poo using solid core 30ga wire on such long runs (I think anything over 3" is a long run).

2) The way you have t installed and wires run, you can't use the any shield. Not without metal cutting anyways. Top shield is required to hold the heat sinks in place.

3) What about the JTAG upgrade port? I like to install a pigtail with 10P adapter for customers to upgrade their own firmware using usb blaster.

you do clean install.

Im not sure why people are seeing these issues with their installs. I've done a few doen N64 installs now and none have had it. I don't believe the problem is with the pin adapter or wires used. I believe there might be install problems (cold solder, not enough solder, etc) and a rewire fixes it. But installer would have seen the fix if they just reflowed the connections.

[citrus3000psi]

1) When you say ribbon cable, you mean the multi core rainbow cable that came with the kit. You don't mean the pin adapter (you have a DENC or VDC NUS there). I would guess a -03 PCB. I think some installers (like Voultar) would poo poo using solid core 30ga wire on such long runs (I think anything over 3" is a long run).

Not sure where you are from, but the multicolor cable is called ribbon cables. I guess that that could be confused with a flex cable. But the pin adapter, isn't a cable really, more a junction connector. There shouldn't be any confusion with calling the mutlicolor cable a ribbon cable. This is digikeys cattegory for ribbon cables:
https://www.digikey.com/products/en/cab ... cables/472

Yes solid core has less surface area. But run length would depend on what data is being sent over it. These datelines aren't a problem. Regardless the run is about 3.25"





I'd choose 3.25" solid core run over a 6-7" multistrand run any day of the week.

2) The way you have t installed and wires run, you can't use the any shield. Not without metal cutting anyways. Top shield is required to hold the heat sinks in place.

I already addressed this in the first post. Here are pictures anyways.

Cutting the metal housing is required for this way

3) What about the JTAG upgrade port? I like to install a pigtail with 10P adapter for customers to upgrade their own firmware using usb blaster.

This is between me and my customer. But he is having me doing the firmware. So no need for the pigtail on this one.


I've been around the block with the clock and data signals. I've been messing with the gamecube and wii video datalines and clock for sometime. These type of can signals be erratic. Which is why I believe people have problems. I just wanted to show a different install way. I'm not saying that people should rip there mods out and change it to this. I'm just showing an option for people who have problems.

[mikejmoffitt]

I'm not sure putting it on the bottom means short wires. Those wires are pretty long by necessity, comparable to what you'd have off to the side.

[citrus3000psi]

I'm not sure putting it on the bottom means short wires. Those wires are pretty long by necessity, comparable to what you'd have off to the side.

The board doesn't fit nicely on the topside, with the large caps. And I didn't want to hack the metal case up too much. This was the most convenient place that offered the shortest wires. I guess it could be mounted to the side, but it'd be less convenient to mount and I'd maybe only gain 1/2" of savings.

Its also important to me have easy accessibility without having to desolder anything to gain access. If I had unlimited time, I'd redesign the board to fit on top of the motherboard making room for those caps.

For those curious, I've played about 3 hours on this. Testing multiple games.

[Ikaruga11]

Is it possible to have De-blur with S-Video?

[mikejmoffitt]

Is it possible to have De-blur with S-Video?

Not with this board or any other existing one, but in theory yes. You'd need to have the PCB offer an output as well, going to the N64's DAC, where you'd pass the modified semi-serialized video back in its original format. That, or integrate a video encoder on the RGB board.

[borti4938]

I guess he aims for the "S-Video colors" and not for S-Video in general. Sometimes I think about that the DAC curve has not a linear shape as it is used at the moment on current DAC replacements. Just look at the "gamma boost" feature of the UltraHDMI. This is somethink which can be implemented easily in an advanced mod (moreover, I do have an implementation ready).

[andykara2003]

I'd be really interested to see that - especially if it can produce whiter whites. Also s-video on N64 over saturates the reds so this wouldn't have that problem. Is your implementation working now? It would be amazing to see comparisons of this to a normal RGB mod and also s-video.

I did have a thread about the s-video colours vs RGB but with some fiddling in the TVs service menu, things evened out quite a bit and the difference was less pronounced. There does seem to be a be an intrinsic difference in the vibrancy of the colours and the whites though. At 11.00 in this video, the difference seems apparent:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpy1M6v2_MI

My only worry is that might just increasing gamma on an RGB mod have the side effect of washing out the colours a little?

[Ikaruga11]

I guess he aims for the "S-Video colors" and not for S-Video in general. Sometimes I think about that the DAC curve has not a linear shape as it is used at the moment on current DAC replacements. Just look at the "gamma boost" feature of the UltraHDMI. This is somethink which can be implemented easily in an advanced mod (moreover, I do have an implementation ready).

Exactly. I like the S-Video colors more. They look more accurate, although I'm not sure they are.

[mikejmoffitt]

I guess he aims for the "S-Video colors" and not for S-Video in general. Sometimes I think about that the DAC curve has not a linear shape as it is used at the moment on current DAC replacements. Just look at the "gamma boost" feature of the UltraHDMI. This is somethink which can be implemented easily in an advanced mod (moreover, I do have an implementation ready).

Honestly, I think this might be referring more to a typical TV set often having chroma / saturation turned up high.

[holaplaneta]

Finally found the switch to turn deblur on/off., it fits perfectly on the console and is super small. Model is OS202011MS2QN1 by C&K

Glued with Krazy Glue KG483 Advanced Formula, .18 oz. Extra Strong, Durable, Precision Tip (EPIKG483)





I got it here with free shipping! https://www.arrow.com/en/products/os202011ms2qn1/ck

Cheers!

[Einzelherz]

Unless I'm mistaken we still haven't done a signal comparison on S-Video to RGB to "compare the colors", right?

[andykara2003]

You're right - I'd love to see this. The My life in gaming video I posted above has a comparison at 11mins that really shows it, although it's possible that's due to their particular setup. Hopefully someone can do the comparison here and put this to rest.

[andykara2003]

I guess he aims for the "S-Video colors" and not for S-Video in general. Sometimes I think about that the DAC curve has not a linear shape as it is used at the moment on current DAC replacements. Just look at the "gamma boost" feature of the UltraHDMI. This is somethink which can be implemented easily in an advanced mod (moreover, I do have an implementation ready).

Apologies for double post - Borti, I just wanted to say that I think that an advanced mod to increase the 'cleanness' of colours and whites in the N64's RGB output that would be absolutely amazing and really well received. I fired up my UltraHDMI last night and the colours/whites look fantastic - quite a bit nicer/cleaner than my RGB mods.

[Ikaruga11]

I guess he aims for the "S-Video colors" and not for S-Video in general. Sometimes I think about that the DAC curve has not a linear shape as it is used at the moment on current DAC replacements. Just look at the "gamma boost" feature of the UltraHDMI. This is somethink which can be implemented easily in an advanced mod (moreover, I do have an implementation ready).

Apologies for double post - Borti, I just wanted to say that I think that an advanced mod to increase the 'cleanness' of colours and whites in the N64's RGB output that would be absolutely amazing and really well received. I fired up my UltraHDMI last night and the colours/whites look fantastic - quite a bit nicer/cleaner than my RGB mods.

This

Why does the RGB Mod have such darker and duller colors compared to the Ultra HDMI's colors? It's the one thing keeping me from doing anything right now.

[speedlolita]

I guess he aims for the "S-Video colors" and not for S-Video in general. Sometimes I think about that the DAC curve has not a linear shape as it is used at the moment on current DAC replacements. Just look at the "gamma boost" feature of the UltraHDMI. This is somethink which can be implemented easily in an advanced mod (moreover, I do have an implementation ready).

Apologies for double post - Borti, I just wanted to say that I think that an advanced mod to increase the 'cleanness' of colours and whites in the N64's RGB output that would be absolutely amazing and really well received. I fired up my UltraHDMI last night and the colours/whites look fantastic - quite a bit nicer/cleaner than my RGB mods.

This

Why does the RGB Mod have such darker and duller colors compared to the Ultra HDMI's colors? It's the one thing keeping me from doing anything right now.

This is a really vague comment, but GameTechUS commented on one of his videos that the image looked much more vibrant on an earlier hardware revision (that you could RGB mod the old way) when compared to a later revision of the hardware - such as revisions that came in clear cases.

With that in mind I'm considering hunting an earlier hardware revision once my N64RGB arrives.

Also, are you able to toggle the deblur on and off while the console is running? I was thinking that if you could I would utilise one of those PICs that allows you to switchlessly change between 50 and 60Hz on a Mega Drive (for example) but use it for a deblur toggle. Otherwise I'll probably just have it enabled all the time.

[andykara2003]

Would you have a link for that video? I'd be interested to see it - although I wouldn't necessarily take it as gospel until it was properly tested.

I have a revision 2 Japanese console (modded the old way) that I just tested against Tim's deblur mod and they look *exactly* the same. Then I tried s-video - a good place to see it is when looking at the castle in Mario 64; the lighting looks a bit cleaner and whiter, more impactful. The scene looks like a strikingly bright, clear sunny day - exactly what you want in that game. In comparison, the RGB looks great too, but as if it has a very subtle grey film over it.

You can't get the same 's-video' effect with RGB by just turning up the contrast - that just produces a lighter shade of the grey. To me, the colours/whites of the s-video are just fundamentally different. I tested this really thoroughly as I'd hate to be saying the wrong thing here.

As an aside, the reds are also over saturated in s-video. If I tried to match the s-video reds in RGB by turning up the reds in the service menu, it would result in an overly warm image with yellower whites - but the S-video whites are nice and cool even with the over saturated reds. Also the greens of the grassy areas are a touch darker and less 'florescent'. That's what makes me think there's something fundamentally different about the way s-video is encoded and I'm not sure how it could be replicated in RGB (although I would love that!)

[speedlolita]

Would you have a link for that video? I'd be interested to see it - although I wouldn't necessarily take it as gospel until it was properly tested.

I have a revision 2 Japanese console (modded the old way) that I just tested against Tim's deblur mod and they look *exactly* the same. Then I tried s-video - a good place to see it is when looking at the castle in Mario 64; the lighting looks a bit cleaner and whiter, more impactful. The scene looks like a strikingly bright, clear sunny day - exactly what you want in that game. In comparison, the RGB looks great too, but as if it has a very subtle grey film over it.

You can't get the same 's-video' effect with RGB by just turning up the contrast - that just produces a lighter shade of the grey. To me, the colours/whites of the s-video are just fundamentally different. I tested this really thoroughly as I'd hate to be saying the wrong thing here.

As an aside, the reds are also over saturated in s-video. If I tried to match the s-video reds in RGB by turning up the reds in the service menu, it would result in an overly warm image with yellower whites - but the S-video whites are nice and cool even with the over saturated reds. Also the greens of the grassy areas are a touch darker and less 'florescent'. That's what makes me think there's something fundamentally different about the way s-video is encoded and I'm not sure how it could be replicated..

Here you go, link will jump you to around the time he makes the comment. The red channel is shot on his PVM if you can't tell, but even so. Video link.

[Ikaruga11]

This is a really vague comment, but GameTechUS commented on one of his videos that the image looked much more vibrant on an earlier hardware revision (that you could RGB mod the old way) when compared to a later revision of the hardware - such as revisions that came in clear cases.

RGB image output is exactly the same across all Nintendo 64 revisions and models. The only difference is whether you're using the old early N64 only mod or Tim's universal N64 RGB Board. Phonedork explains and shows the difference quite nicely here:

https://youtu.be/ffiR4E1id-8?t=25m10s

Certain N64s having better colors only applies to RF, Composite and S-Video signals. In fact, it's actually the newer motherboard revisions of the Nintendo 64 seen in the semi-transparent Funtastic models which provide more vibrant colors (and sharper image too).

[andykara2003]

Thanks - It's hard to say, it could have been a number of factors, perhaps the mod wasn't perfect? The one he has with the older mod is a US revision 4 - so at least that's been narrowed down. He was quite vague about it - I'll message him and see if he has anything more to say..

Does anyone have a rev. 4 with the older RGB mod?

[Ikaruga11]

Thanks - It's hard to say, it could have been a number of factors, perhaps the mod wasn't perfect? The one he has with the older mod is a US revision 4 - so at least that's been narrowed down. He was quite vague about it - I'll message him and see if he has anything more to say..

Does anyone have a rev. 4 with the older RGB mod?

How do you know Phonedork had a Rev. 4? He said had pure sync (aka CSync / raw sync) enabled, which is only available on Rev. 3 and older. Rev. 4 is missing a lot of CSync components.

http://nintendo64.wikia.com/wiki/NUS-CPU-03
http://nintendo64.wikia.com/wiki/NUS-CPU-04

[andykara2003]

How do you know Phonedork had a Rev. 4?

Sorry, I was talking about the GameTechUS video speedlolita linked to in the post above yours. I should have quoted him in my reply.

If you go to 7m55s on that video, GameTechUS says he thinks he has a brighter RGB mod - older mod type on a serial number NS148xxxxxx which corresponds to a US revision 4 console.

I just emailed him so hopefully we might have an answer soon..

As to that video of Phonedork's, he doesn't say the revision of the console with the older mod that he's comparing to Tim's mod so it doesn't help us narrow down a revision that supposedly has better colours.

To be honest I strongly suspect that you're absolutely right and that there's actually no difference of RGB brightness/colours between any of the console revisions (this was my understanding anyway). But if there's a hint that one might be better I can't help wanting to follow it up, even though it's probably a red herring. Perhaps GameTechUS will have something to say - or maybe he'd be willing to do a comparison test..

[Ikaruga11]

Sorry, I was talking about the GameTechUS video speedlolita linked to in the post above yours.

If you go to 7m55s on that video linked above, he says the serial number is NS148xxxxxx, which corresponds to a US revision 4 console.

I just emailed him so hopefully we might have an answer soon..

Oh, okay.

As to that video of Phonedork's, he doesn't say the revision of the console with the older mod that he's comparing to Tim's mod so it doesn't help us narrow down a revision that supposedly has better colours.

It's safe to assume it's a CPU-03 since it has pure sync.

To be honest I strongly suspect that there's no difference of RGB brightness/colours between any of the console revisions (this was my understanding anyway), - but if there's a hint that one might be better I can't help wanting to follow it up, even though it's probably a red herring. Perhaps GameTechUS will have something to say - or maybe he'd be willing to do a comparison test..

That's how I feel. I think the difference in RGB image quality doesn't lie on the revisions, but rather the mods themselves. In PD's video, you can see more shadow detail in Conker with Tim's Board and slightly different color overall for all the games shown.

[andykara2003]

It's safe to assume it's a CPU-03 since it has pure sync.

Didn't you say pure sync was available on rev.3 and older? So couldn't it be either rev. 1,2 or 3?

[Ikaruga11]

It's safe to assume it's a CPU-03 since it has pure sync.

Didn't you say pure sync was available on rev.3 and older? So couldn't it be either rev. 1,2 or 3?

Yes. It could be Rev. 1, 2 or 3.

CPU-01 was available only on the earliest Japanese N64s. Nothing else.
CPU-02 was available mostly on early Japanese N64s and pre-launch US N64s, used as in-store kiosks prior to launch.
CPU-03 was available on most, if not all US launch N64s.

[andykara2003]

Jason from Gametechus got back to me & says he can't remember - either way it was just a vague off hand comment & I'm pretty sure all RGB N64s look the same.

I think Borti is our only hope (no pressure!)