Help me choose a japanese cab

oxtsu · Post by **oxtsu** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 11:30 pm

Sorry to hear about the damage, zakk. What shipping co did they use, may I ask?

zakk · Post by **zakk** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:01 am

oxtsu wrote:Sorry to hear about the damage, zakk. What shipping co did they use, may I ask?

Southeastern Freight Lines.

I called Billabs Friday and they're going to file a claim with the shipper on Monday and give me a call.

edit: pictures!

http://www.rsdio.com/zakk/crackedtube/

parodius · Post by **parodius** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:14 am

I may go the multisync monitor route, instead of buying an Egret 3 or Blast City, and Pentranic seems to be the only brand that I can find in Europe along with Hantarex.
Are Pentranic screens any good ?
How about Hantarex ?
Does anybody know about other brands available in Europe, and where ?

Here's my source for Pentranic screens :
http://www.starcab.net/index.php?cPath= ... anguage=en

Hantarex monitors can be bought directly from their Belgium or Germany offices I've been told.

AntiPasta · Post by **AntiPasta** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 1:17 pm

parodius: might I ask where you got your Astro City, or plan on getting your new cabs? I often see them on sale very cheap, but always in the US - and all I can find in The Netherlands/Belgium are overpriced 15+ year old cabinets

Post by **Dave_K.** » Sun Dec 04, 2005 4:52 pm

parodius wrote: Are Pentranic screens any good ?

I recently bought a Pentranic flat tube 29" VGA/SVGA monitor used from someone local (in the US). The thing was in brand new condition, but the geometery was screwd up and could not be corrected with the digital controls. Come to find out Pentranic just rebrands cheap taiwanese monitors (mine was really a Rodotron 2948). Not sure if this was just a dud (since I got it used/cheap), but I quickly sold it "as is".

zakk · Post by **zakk** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:41 pm

Ok, the replacement monitor showed up. This one wasn't broken. I will say it was a fairly painless process to get this taken care of, other than the slight annoyance that the shipper initially wanted me to drive down to the depot 43 miles away to give them the old monitor. Luckily the Billabs guys agreed with me that was dumb and we just arranged it so the guy who delivered the replacement also took back the one they broke.

I must say this thing looks nice. The mounting in the exceleena isn't exactly the best, I managed to just plop it in there with the stock frame. It'll work ok for just sitting there, but moving the cabinet or rotating the monitor isn't going to happen. I also took the swinging carrier out of the cabinet to give myself some extra clearence behind the neck of the monitor. Dunno if I needed it, but I figured I'd play it safe.

Only issue was things were a bit pink-ish when I first powered it up, had to adjust the red gun on the neckboard. No big deal.

Here's some pictures!

http://flutter.rsdio.com/zakk/camdump/

I'm going to ask them if the tubes are interchangeable between the 15/24/31khz and the 15-38khz models. I may swap to a 38khz capable chassis later. I'm also pondering putting this one in my egret and moving the D9200 to the exceleena. I have a feeling that'll give me back rotation in the exceleena.

oxtsu · Post by **oxtsu** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 12:00 am

I received mine on Friday as well. :D The shipping turned out to be around $120 through Watkins freight. It would have been $60 less, had I sent it to a friend's business address. Still need to install it in my Windy cabinet (have to install the original Konami mounting brackets to the Billabs monitor). Here's some pics of the back.

http://members.cox.net/oxtsu/billabs29%20001.jpg
http://members.cox.net/oxtsu/billabs29%20002.jpg
http://members.cox.net/oxtsu/billabs29%20003.jpg

The screen shots I took didn't do the monitor justice, so I left them out. It looks great in person. There is some loss of sharpness in the corners, but that's to be expected with flat screens I guess. Also, the pure white background is blotchy (lighter and darker areas). It's not noticed in games that I tested though. Overall, a sweet kind monitor for the price.

edit - Video input (15-31k) is handled through the male VGA connector or CN10 10pin adapter. I just wired this to a factory Windy 15pin AMP connector. Also, AC monitor power is integrated with the cabinet's PSU on/off switch this way, and the cabinet's EMI filter isn't bypassed.

Post by **Dave_K.** » Tue Dec 20, 2005 2:06 am

Oxtsu, when I replaced the broken monitor in my windy, I still never found a way to properly secure the PCB to the shelf below. Let me know if you come up with any ideas. Also looking forward to seeing how the bezel looks with the flat tube (you going to use weather stripping to fill in the gaps?)

oxtsu · Post by **oxtsu** » Sat Dec 24, 2005 5:38 pm

Dave_K., I've decided to keep the frame on the Billabs monitor for protection. So far I have checked the clearance on horizontal orientation and there are some issues at the bottom. I will shave the plastic away to make it fit. It looks thick with that rolled edge, but really the plastic is only 1-2mm, so it should be suitable to cut with a Dremel tool.

http://members.cox.net/oxtsu/billabs29%20011.jpg
I'll shave the area marked in pencil here:
http://members.cox.net/oxtsu/billabs29%20012.jpg

I'm pretty sure that I'll be cutting the bezel to have a flat edge, if for aesthetic reasons only. It will be tricky to do it straight and clean though, with the tools I have. Haven't tested it with the monitor in yet. I'll report back later.

zakk · Post by **zakk** » Sat Dec 24, 2005 6:40 pm

I think I've decided to not even bother putting the bezel back on my exceleena. Because the monitor isn't an OSD controlled one, I find I have to twiddle the vert/hori size/position adjustments when I change games. Having to remove the bezel for that every time would be annoying. Maybe in the future I'll get longer cables for the control board and see if that'll work.

Post by **Dave_K.** » Sat Dec 24, 2005 10:28 pm

So do the mounting holes on the Billabs frame line up on the Windy holes? I've never seen a non-japanese 29" monitor frame line up correctly, as their standard mounting dimensions are different than US/Europe monitor frames.

oxtsu · Post by **oxtsu** » Sat Dec 24, 2005 10:52 pm

The mounting tabs on the Billabs monitor line up perfectly with the Windy metal brackets (not the cabinet's mounting bracket screw holes, if that's what you mean). Since I'm keeping the Billabs frame, I have to mount the Windy metal brackets behind it (the welded hex nuts on the Windy brackets prevent it from going in front). It is a very tight fit when keeping the Billabs frame (it flexes and the mounting tab holes are bigger than the screws so there is some extra play to take into consideration), and you have to get the positioning almost exactly. I'm having a hell of time getting the bottom Windy bracket bolted in with the frame. There's no slack whatsoever and a welded hex nut is off about 1mm relative to one of the monitor tabs+frame. I'm going to hack off this welded hex nut to give some play, and use a loose hex nut instead.

Post by **Dave_K.** » Sat Dec 24, 2005 10:59 pm

Oh, I see, excellent idea!

oxtsu · Post by **oxtsu** » Sat Dec 24, 2005 11:08 pm

Danke (thanks)! ^-^

stellarola · Post by **stellarola** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:27 pm

Whats the best Multisync arcade monitor to replace in an Astro City with? I guess none will really sit flush with the bezel, correct? Lemme know, thanks guys!

oxtsu · Post by **oxtsu** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:06 pm

No concensus here I think. All of them suck compared to the Japanese branded/made multisync monitors. I only bought the Billabs/Wei-Ya monitor because it was my only option, honestly, and having 31k is a minor plus for the future. It's too expensive to get the Nanao,etc, multisync monitors here in the States. If you are not the picky type when it comes to image quality, then perhaps the Billabs monitor will suit you just fine. I can't get my Billabs BL27C91T to display with Guwange or Esprade ...just a bullshit sync clicking noise is heard, though maybe it can be tweaked; doubtful as the thing is digital...not sure yet though. It seems to be the most reliable so far, though it was only released recently so reports are scant. Wells-Gardner is supposedly releasing some new and improved monitors early '06. [edit] About the bezel, you will definitely have to shave some material if using the Billabs monitor. The hatch will not close otherwise, due to Billab's 100% flat screen. Betson multisync, not required according to Dave_K (in an Excellena, not Astro IIRC..might be different mounting dimension..small chance though). Wells-Gardner is similar to Betson, so probably the same story.

By the way, I will post a small tutorial with pics of the Billabs monitor into Windy cabinet. Was wanting to wait for the bezel cutting to be finished. That is, for all two of you who would be helped by such a thing. ;)

zakk · Post by **zakk** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 8:38 pm

oxtsu: Esprade and Dangun sync up fine on my billabs monitor. (don't have guwange to test). Assuming you have the same 15/24/31khz monitor I do (and based on your model number, you do) you should be able to adjust it; all the controls are analog. There's some additional pots on the deflection board that might be useful. I had to mess with the vertical size pot on the def. board in order to get a good range of adjustment from the control-board v-size. (games like batrider were too big for the screen even at the smallest setting).

oxtsu · Post by **oxtsu** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:04 am

zakk - Thanks for your input and suggestions. :) Actually I should have put a '0' on the end of that model number, as it is the one I have. I would think it is the exact one as yours. Do you have analog control pots or digital OSD control? Mine is OSD. I haven't had any problems with an image being too large. Definitely I need to check the deflection board and chassis for the relevant adjustment pots though. The focus is wacked in the outer edges as well.

zakk · Post by **zakk** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 2:35 am

Mine isn't OSD. The control board is all analog pots. Interesting, I thought only the 1024x768 one was digital.

oxtsu · Post by **oxtsu** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:52 am

Don't you hate it when the distributor doesn't even know their own product?

btw, mine says BL27C91TU not 0, as I mistakenly said in the last post. On the chassis there is a component with the marking BL27CA1Q as well (the 1024x768 max res version). Something is not right here. Everything seems normal except for OSD, but it also means the video input impedance and voltage is auto-select. I don't trust Billabs specs anymore. Maybe that is the problem with Guwange-Esprade hardware on this. Or could it be the odd 57.55hz vertical sync? I hope to find the answer at some point.

zakk · Post by **zakk** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:45 am

Hah. Yours is labeled with the same model number as mine, but I think they must have sent you the more expensive monitor as a mistake. Most likely someone slapped the wrong label on the thing/put it in the wrong pile.

Interesting it won't sync with those boards. I wouldn't think the 'odd' vsync would mess with it that badly, but who knows. I'd look into sync polarity and voltage too.

Here's the rather sparse specs direct on wei-ya's site.

http://www.weiya.com.tw/monitor/p9-1.htm

oxtsu · Post by **oxtsu** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:18 pm

It's hard to say, of course. They did attach the HD15/VGA-->pin header adapter. This is not supposed to come with the BL27CA1Q, according to them. Ah well...I'm glad to have an OSD, though the 1024x768 res I will never use. There are a lot of slight geometry/graphic problems at 15k, which is where I spend all of my time...it's the downer (+edge focus problem at any frequency).

I wouldn't think an odd v.sync would mess with it either (they claim it's auto and capable down to 40hz after all!). And if it was, there should be some kind of picture. Though being auto+digital, probably not (a message like 'out of range' would be helpful here still). There are quite a few adjustment pots on the chassis. Most of them are difficult to reach and unlabelled. I suppose the tech diagram/service manual is needed here.

oxtsu · Post by **oxtsu** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 7:45 pm

Ok...It's going to be awhile before I get the bezel sorted out, so here's some pics of my Billabs 15-38k monitor into Windy project, with some brief commentary (before I forget).

Note: images will show full size if clicked

First thing to do is mate the original Windy monitor brackets to the Billabs frame. Sorry, I don't have pictures of this. It's pretty straightforward, though I did have a rather frustrating time on one corner of the Windy brackets. It was off center of the Billabs mounting point by about 1 or 2mm (explained further in one of my posts above). I resorted to drilling half of the Windy mounting point/welded hex nut, which gave just enough clearance, while still able to thread the screw in there. This may or may not be a problem for others, since the fitting is very tight/critical, where the skill of mating up each of the corners comes into play.

For the 15khz video wiring, I snipped of the video connector from the original monitor's chassis and wired it to Billabs 'VGA'<-->'CGA' wiring adapter that they provide. In this way the monitor can be plugged up to the factory cabinet wiring with no hacking.

For monitor power, I'm simply running the Billabs AC plug to the wall outlet. I had planned on wiring into the cabinet's AC source power so as to have just one thing to switch on/plug in. This will come later I suppose. At the moment, I'm not bothered by it.

Next step, cabinet re-modeling.

I marked off this area on the side and drilled guide holes to make the full drilling/routing easier.
1

Here's the area after drilled almost completely except for the very edges. A hard twist will break it free. I repeated the process on the other side.
2

Both sides, and lower portion completed. At first I thought this was enough, but as it turned out, the top area needs more clearance as well as the bottom (see next pic).
3

Top and bottom done. I shaved the upper area about even with the top of bracket mounts. The lower area I shaved all the way to the shelf so as to avoid any possible complications later.
4

With these steps completed, the monitor is ready for vertical orientation. There was one last snag with horizontal. The thick black wire that goes around the monitor will not clear the area around the speakers. As is, the monitor will hang horizontal but the the bottom will be sitting about 1/8-1/4in from the mounts (it will still work just fine like this). One would have to shave a thin line (the thickness of the wire), at about a 45degree angle on the closed portion in front of the speakers. With a test fitting it becomes clear. I don't plan on much horizontal usage with this cabinet (and was stressed enough at the time) so I left it be.

The monitor hooked up and ready for action. Thankfully, the backside of the frame just barely clears the cabinet. This means that the rear hatch cover can remain in place.
5

Monitor controls secured. The two tabs next to the bottom of the controls had to be shaved slightly.
6

The image quality looks A-OK (so-so pic...best I could manage).
7

Mahou fired up on a starry night. :p
8

If there's any other question you may have about it, feel free to ask.

Post by **Dave_K.** » Sun Mar 12, 2006 9:03 pm

Thanks for posting your progress Oxtsu. I understand the stress/time involved in these types of projects, especially when things don't turn out exactly as expected.

I had a similar problem retrofitting the Nano monitor into my windy, when the degausing coil wouldn't allow it to sit on the mounting points correctly. I ended up replacing it with the coil form the original/broken monitor (which was thinner). Thankfully I didn't have to make any other major modifications.

oxtsu · Post by **oxtsu** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 7:15 pm

oxtsu wrote:I can't get my Billabs BL27C91T (edit- by some mistake.. actually a BL27CA1Q, i.e. the 38k topper) to display with Guwange or Esprade

A little update here ~ the tech at Billabs was of no use. I got Guwange working by putting JAMMA's C-sync line onto the Billabs H/C-sync and V-sync pins. Oddly enough, this didn't do anything for Esprade. What it boils down to...an LM1881 (sync stripper) circuit is necessary for these PCBs on this monitor (or in the case of Guwange, the quick and dirty combo method of C on H/C and V).

elvis · Post by **elvis** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:18 pm

I made a LM1881N "pass through" JAMMA connector for a friend. JAMMA fingerboard on one side and 52 pin edge connector on the other. In the middle is the LM1881N circuit and added DB9 and DB15 connectors.

No matter what he wants to plug into his cab now, it's a simple "plug and play" system. It cost less than $10 to make, but ovbiously a bit of time involved. Worth it if you regularly need to put differing sync devices into a cab that only supports one type of sync.

I'm lucky in tha my Kortek monitor has a switch inside for choosing the kind of sync it will take. Makes life nice and simple.

oxtsu · Post by **oxtsu** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 2:01 am

Good idea about the fingerboard. Thing is, I only use JAMMA PCBs, and therefore should not be required to have this sync seperator with a touted 'arcade' monitor (I can understand it a little...being a 15-38k monitor and low-cost). I just want the setup around the PCB area to be as simple and clean as possible, and not have to hook up this device every time I play a few boards with issues (that shouldn't be there). Not really a big deal though. Just saying.

zakk · Post by **zakk** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 2:53 am

oxtsu wrote:Good idea about the fingerboard. Thing is, I only use JAMMA PCBs, and therefore should not be required to have this sync seperator with a touted 'arcade' monitor (I can understand it a little...being a 15-38k monitor and low-cost). I just want the setup around the PCB area to be as simple and clean as possible, and not have to hook up this device every time I play a few boards with issues (that shouldn't be there). Not really a big deal though. Just saying.

I suspect you don't have to only use it for 'problematic' boards. If you just build it into the jamma loom, it'll probably work just fine with other boards.

Can't hurt to try, anyways.

oxtsu · Post by **oxtsu** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:44 am

Makes sense, zakk. Thanks. I will consider it.

I'm also considering the switch to JVS standard (new PSU, wiring) + JVS-->JAMMA converter board. But it's another story for later. :)

zakk · Post by **zakk** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 8:20 am

Since this sort of became the 'putting weird monitors into japanese cabs' thread:

The 'rotation cradle/carrier' of the egret1 (and I presume the egret2, as they appear to be identical) will NOT fit the billabs/Wei-ya flat monitors. These monitors are 'thicker' than normal tubes, so the arms of the mount are not long enough to fit. Even if you could somehow rig a scary combination of washers/bolts etc to get them to attach to each other, I think the added tube length/thickness would completely mess with the bezel/door part.

Of course I noticed this after I'd taken my existing monitor(s) out of two cabinets!

Those flat monitors are so much heavier than curved tubes. Ugh.