Kramer vp scaler
Kramer vp scaler
Buy one and we'll both know.
Last edited by orange808 on Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Kramer vp 727, 728, & 729
The IA 200 uses the HQV Realta. And in general the whole HQV processing is a mess. I *really* dislike it. They gained a nice reputation for being used on the Teranex machines (before being acquired by Blackmagic) and are often used by broadcast stations for upscaling purposes. Units I had on hand with the HQV are the Instant HQV, the Denon standalone VP and a unit by NEC. All crappy and not worth trying.
At one point I wanted to get the IA 200 just to see how it performs compared to the IA 100 but when I checked the manual I didn't see any mention of a rotation feature, so I assumed that the feature was gone. Did you have the IA-200 on hand ? For the VP-728 I can see rotation mentioned in the manual....
The next unit I want to try for image rotation is the Aurora DIDO. I already got one, just don't have the time right now. Some are ridiculously priced on ebay, but the Jr. models go down to $200-300, which is kinda OK. Since I have the Datapath 4x I don't really need anything else, but there's still one major hassle with the x4 and that's the missing padding, so you have to precisely prescale your image to get a usable aspect ratio after rotation.
At one point I wanted to get the IA 200 just to see how it performs compared to the IA 100 but when I checked the manual I didn't see any mention of a rotation feature, so I assumed that the feature was gone. Did you have the IA-200 on hand ? For the VP-728 I can see rotation mentioned in the manual....
The next unit I want to try for image rotation is the Aurora DIDO. I already got one, just don't have the time right now. Some are ridiculously priced on ebay, but the Jr. models go down to $200-300, which is kinda OK. Since I have the Datapath 4x I don't really need anything else, but there's still one major hassle with the x4 and that's the missing padding, so you have to precisely prescale your image to get a usable aspect ratio after rotation.
Re: Kramer vp scaler
This topic makes no sense, I assume the first post actually said something at some point?
Fudoh: Have you tested the Dido Jr yet? It seems somewhat tempting. It beats the Datapath X4 considerably on price, beats Image AnyPlace with supporting 1080p output (one less scaling step on 1080p displays is always good)...
But I'm concerned about input latency and whether or not it will support the various refresh rates of game consoles.
Fudoh: Have you tested the Dido Jr yet? It seems somewhat tempting. It beats the Datapath X4 considerably on price, beats Image AnyPlace with supporting 1080p output (one less scaling step on 1080p displays is always good)...
But I'm concerned about input latency and whether or not it will support the various refresh rates of game consoles.
Re: Kramer vp scaler
I haven't, sorry.
But I'm not really concerned about compatibility issues. Since a full frame buffer is required for rotation anyway, I expect about the same lag as on the Datapath units. And I expect a framerate conversion to a standard refresh rate anyway. What I'm interested in is the ability to add padding. That's the major flaw on the Datapath x4 and it requires you to precisely prescale your image with big borders to get the AR after rotation right.
But I'm not really concerned about compatibility issues. Since a full frame buffer is required for rotation anyway, I expect about the same lag as on the Datapath units. And I expect a framerate conversion to a standard refresh rate anyway. What I'm interested in is the ability to add padding. That's the major flaw on the Datapath x4 and it requires you to precisely prescale your image with big borders to get the AR after rotation right.
Re: Kramer vp scaler
It does 240p.ZellSF wrote:This topic makes no sense, I assume the first post actually said something at some point?
Fudoh: Have you tested the Dido Jr yet? It seems somewhat tempting. It beats the Datapath X4 considerably on price, beats Image AnyPlace with supporting 1080p output (one less scaling step on 1080p displays is always good)...
But I'm concerned about input latency and whether or not it will support the various refresh rates of game consoles.
I have one for sale.
We apologise for the inconvenience
Re: Kramer vp scaler
I'm not concerned about 240p (I want to use it after a OSSC), but support for the various refresh rates of consoles, though if it supports it at 240p it should at higher resolutions too.orange808 wrote:It does 240p.ZellSF wrote:This topic makes no sense, I assume the first post actually said something at some point?
Fudoh: Have you tested the Dido Jr yet? It seems somewhat tempting. It beats the Datapath X4 considerably on price, beats Image AnyPlace with supporting 1080p output (one less scaling step on 1080p displays is always good)...
But I'm concerned about input latency and whether or not it will support the various refresh rates of game consoles.
I have one for sale.
I'm not decided on buying one yet, so don't waste your time testing because you want to sell it to me, but do you know the answer to any of these questions? (alternatively, Fudoh can you answer when you get around to testing?):
1: How quickly and pretty does it handle resolution changes? Does it lose sync with display?
2: What's the input lag like?
3: What's the deinterlacing like and what's the input lag then?
4: What OSSC line multiplication modes does it support?
5: What's the scaling like (blurry? sharp? ringing?)?
6: Does it as Fudoh suggest convert framerate to 59.94 or 60.00?
Re: Kramer vp scaler
why do you have one and haven't posted anything about it yet ? Please share some impressions!It does 240p.
I have one for sale.
It does really directly accept 240p ? How the image padding handled (which is missing on the x4) ?
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FinalBaton
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Re: Kramer vp scaler
My decision.FinalBaton wrote:I don't understand the first post in this thread, lol
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Re: Kramer vp scaler
Ok. Here's why I didn't write about it. It took a long time to write..
**Edit: I have an RGBHV setup and I never tested component 240p input on the Dido before right now. I assumed it would work. 240p component input is bugged.
240p works fine on svideo, composite, RGBHV and RGBsB.**
Random answers:
There's a handy rotation key on the remote, but it's not that easy. You will still have to adjust the image after rotation. The device stores profiles. Best to save one for each OSSC output with the image rotated and scaled the way you want it.
Can be adjusted to pass the 240p test suite checkerboard test pattern with truly decent results. Many, many, many scalers I own cannot do this. It's usually too sharp with uneven pixels or too soft. This requires leaving the scaler filtering interpolation on. There's an option to turn it off, but there's no reason to turn it off. I found it to be very mild; in fact, I wish it let me adjust the interpolation a little stronger at times.
If you want to avoid excessive framerate conversion hitching, the device allows all input and output signal profiles to be adjusted. If your display can handle the input refresh rate, set the output refresh to match the source. Otherwise, frame rate conversion is no worse than late model Kramer and Extron machines. No, not the best I've seen, but every machine is a trade off.
The profiles control signal outputs and signal recognition. Curiously, there is no profile for 240p, but it still accepts 240p on composite, svideo, and RGB inputs; does not accept 240p on DVI-D/HDMI. When you add or edit a signal profile, the device automatically figures out the pixel clock--and that seems to prevent getting 240p output--among other things.
Adding signal profiles to increase input compatibility is hit and miss. I'm being very picky because another device in my rack can almost do "anything in and anything out" with analog RGB. The properties for new resolutions aren't granular enough to key in the attributes for OSSC x3 or x5.
Accepts OSSC x4 and x2. With some work, you might be able to get x3 or x5. I never bothered. Line x4 works.
No, it doesn't randomly lose sync with the display on its own. That would suck. If your OSSC or display have trouble with NES, SNES, Neo Geo, arcade PCB's, or TG16 you can still have problems. The Dido can perform frame rate conversion and help your display, but if you have an OSSC losing sync before the Dido (in your video chain) the Dido can't do anything to fix that.
If you want instant resolution changes, you need to learn about genlock. The Dido doesn't handle external sync. I recommend a CRT TV for stuff like N64 RE2. The Dido does completely reestablish sync with the display when the input changes. OSSC -> Dido -> display will take 2 or 3 seconds to adjust for signal changes.
A little less sharp than the DVDO vp50 and vp50pro. Still looks nice. No, I didn't find the results blurry. Also, turning up the sharpness didn't create the awful ringing I usually see from most scalers, but the setting doesn't allow for extreme sharpness, most processors let me dial it up until it gets ugly.
No chroma keying. No 240p output. Proper rotation requires programming and saving profiles. No SOIA-flavored complete warping freedom.
Can't say much about composite. I use an external stand alone comb filter and I never spent much time with native composite. I don't remember it looking awful, but I didn't break out the LD's.
The Dido did a nice job knocking out the RF noise (already demodulated and seperated to svideo) on my Pong game. On a digital display, RF noise is always so damn stubborn...
The Dido Jr has one output, so I didn't do a video wall. It supports it, but you won't be using a matrix of these things to drive serious video walls. This is intended to drive just a few consumer displays.
240p drop shadow svideo
The motion glitching is the gif and camera. It's just bad photography.
If it was a perfect processor or my final destination, I would keep it. I would rate it as a worthy replacement for a SOIA, but a little more difficult to operate.
**Edit: I have an RGBHV setup and I never tested component 240p input on the Dido before right now. I assumed it would work. 240p component input is bugged.
240p works fine on svideo, composite, RGBHV and RGBsB.**Random answers:
There's a handy rotation key on the remote, but it's not that easy. You will still have to adjust the image after rotation. The device stores profiles. Best to save one for each OSSC output with the image rotated and scaled the way you want it.
Can be adjusted to pass the 240p test suite checkerboard test pattern with truly decent results. Many, many, many scalers I own cannot do this. It's usually too sharp with uneven pixels or too soft. This requires leaving the scaler filtering interpolation on. There's an option to turn it off, but there's no reason to turn it off. I found it to be very mild; in fact, I wish it let me adjust the interpolation a little stronger at times.
If you want to avoid excessive framerate conversion hitching, the device allows all input and output signal profiles to be adjusted. If your display can handle the input refresh rate, set the output refresh to match the source. Otherwise, frame rate conversion is no worse than late model Kramer and Extron machines. No, not the best I've seen, but every machine is a trade off.
The profiles control signal outputs and signal recognition. Curiously, there is no profile for 240p, but it still accepts 240p on composite, svideo, and RGB inputs; does not accept 240p on DVI-D/HDMI. When you add or edit a signal profile, the device automatically figures out the pixel clock--and that seems to prevent getting 240p output--among other things.
Adding signal profiles to increase input compatibility is hit and miss. I'm being very picky because another device in my rack can almost do "anything in and anything out" with analog RGB. The properties for new resolutions aren't granular enough to key in the attributes for OSSC x3 or x5.
Accepts OSSC x4 and x2. With some work, you might be able to get x3 or x5. I never bothered. Line x4 works.
No, it doesn't randomly lose sync with the display on its own. That would suck. If your OSSC or display have trouble with NES, SNES, Neo Geo, arcade PCB's, or TG16 you can still have problems. The Dido can perform frame rate conversion and help your display, but if you have an OSSC losing sync before the Dido (in your video chain) the Dido can't do anything to fix that.
If you want instant resolution changes, you need to learn about genlock. The Dido doesn't handle external sync. I recommend a CRT TV for stuff like N64 RE2. The Dido does completely reestablish sync with the display when the input changes. OSSC -> Dido -> display will take 2 or 3 seconds to adjust for signal changes.
A little less sharp than the DVDO vp50 and vp50pro. Still looks nice. No, I didn't find the results blurry. Also, turning up the sharpness didn't create the awful ringing I usually see from most scalers, but the setting doesn't allow for extreme sharpness, most processors let me dial it up until it gets ugly.
No chroma keying.
No 240p output. Proper rotation requires programming and saving profiles. No SOIA-flavored complete warping freedom.Can't say much about composite. I use an external stand alone comb filter and I never spent much time with native composite. I don't remember it looking awful, but I didn't break out the LD's.
The Dido did a nice job knocking out the RF noise (already demodulated and seperated to svideo) on my Pong game. On a digital display, RF noise is always so damn stubborn...
The Dido Jr has one output, so I didn't do a video wall. It supports it, but you won't be using a matrix of these things to drive serious video walls. This is intended to drive just a few consumer displays.
240p drop shadow svideo
The motion glitching is the gif and camera. It's just bad photography.
Spoiler
We apologise for the inconvenience
Re: Kramer vp scaler
Hello,
digging here as i got my hands on a Kramer VP-7250S.
Didnt know sh.. bout video timings till yesterday (dont know much more now) but i think i got 240p out of it.
Lag testing with 240p and a switch before the kramer to a crt monitor was bout 1 frame from a 480p DualRGB Hat on a Recalbox Pi.
https://imgur.com/a/gE5wMSd
Video timings still a mess (would be very thankful for help) and look like its locked at 60hz on Custom Settings (could be prlly just a show problem of the osd aswell).
Can test other things as im happy to learn new stuff on that way.
Greetings from Vienna!
digging here as i got my hands on a Kramer VP-7250S.
Didnt know sh.. bout video timings till yesterday (dont know much more now) but i think i got 240p out of it.
Lag testing with 240p and a switch before the kramer to a crt monitor was bout 1 frame from a 480p DualRGB Hat on a Recalbox Pi.
https://imgur.com/a/gE5wMSd
Video timings still a mess (would be very thankful for help) and look like its locked at 60hz on Custom Settings (could be prlly just a show problem of the osd aswell).
Can test other things as im happy to learn new stuff on that way.
Greetings from Vienna!