Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[BIL]

The Stage 5 boss feels easy, but sometimes I just can't stop myself from spinning like an idiot. Every now and then the trigger will lock me in place and its cake, but most of the time it just changes my spin speed (or direction) slightly.

There's an easy trick to the second phase, but it relies on a semi-obscure control mechanic. The trick is to let its spin align your shot with the core, then immediately double-tap L or R as needed. On steady ground this'll get you a faster rotation; here it'll counter and neutralise the boss's spin, locking your aim. Even if you're forced to duck by a flame blast, just keep the shoulder button held, and wait until you've spun back into aim before standing back up; you'll lock again automatically. Simpler than it sounds, or looks! Here's a clip to illustrate. Note that fast rotation will neutralise the annoying vortex tiles within the stage itself, too.

Iirc, this game's Hard difficulty is supposed to actually be solid, and not just a "Boost enemy HP/Fire Rate" affair? If so I might move my efforts there, rather than try a no-miss on Normal.

It's excellent, overall - definitely far beyond a quickie parameter tweak. Lots of stuff that's mild-to-harmless on Normal gets pretty nasty, as stage 1's far more hectic, sniper-dominated streets will attest. It does go a little OTT in spots (there's a couple things in each stage that'll likely steamroll first-timers), and it'd be totally unsuited as a default difficulty; however the game's pretty clear about it being a second loop/master course in all but name, so I'm cool with a bit of hard memorising. 1CCing the first loop is likely more than sufficient preparation, just expect a bit of ruthlessness and don't hoard bombs.

[dunpeal2064]

Wow, I hadn't realized you could double tap the shoulder for a quicker spin! Thanks for the tip!

I noticed you rapidly switch between guns, does this get around the limit of C shots you can fire or something? Or is it just for style points? Went to sneak a peak at the penultimate boss to see how you managed the spacing there, and the fucker died before he had a chance to do anything

[BIL]

I noticed you rapidly switch between guns, does this get around the limit of C shots you can fire or something?

Yep! Basically, even if one gun's shot limit is reached, the other's is ready to go. Holding [fire] and feathering [switch] effectively gives you 200% firepower. The principle technically applies to all weapons, though it's impractical for many pairs and by far the most devastating with C+C. It also works great with S+S; Spread's damage output is very weak here, but with this technique it's nearly as dominating as in the first two games.

GIF from my 1LC:

Spoiler

It's also a good complement to guns with a very low firing rate like L; switch to the other gun while the laser's still onscreen to avoid a "dead man's click" scenario.

GIF from Squire's 1LC:

Spoiler

Went to sneak a peak at the penultimate boss to see how you managed the spacing there, and the fucker died before he had a chance to do anything

The snake arms' tracking bulldozer still scares me tbh, and I totally wimped out that run by speedkilling Gyaba without taking down all his components and provoking his full fury. That won't get you the S Rank by Shin Contra rules boyo! Both arms and both eyes, then the brain!

C+C with the aforementioned feathering technique is by far the game's strongest weapon combo, and experienced players with detailed knowledge of stages+bosses will gravitate to it, but it's not without disadvantages. Specifically limited range, narrow focus and long decay time - all of those can quickly get you into trouble, and need to be constantly worked around (or just shamelessly bombed around, as I do a lot in that run). I found S+C a comfier arrangement while learning the ropes on Hard.

[Vanguard]

I noticed you rapidly switch between guns, does this get around the limit of C shots you can fire or something? Or is it just for style points? Went to sneak a peak at the penultimate boss to see how you managed the spacing there, and the fucker died before he had a chance to do anything

It's a massive damage boost. I didn't like Contra 3's hard mode before I found out about it, but C+C with the dual wielding glitch makes the game lightning fast without losing any of its intensity.

[soprano1]

http://www.romhacking.net/translations/2997/
Rusty for the PC-98 got a English translation patch.

[Sumez]

It keeps their crisply precise platform/shooting, but otherwise ditches a lot of pace-sapping things that put me off. Roadblock enemies/setpieces for certain - there's an almost total absence of hard stops.

I don't think hard stops and roadblock enemies is really an issue in any of the FC rockmen. Enemies that take multiple hits are usually positioned in a way that make them easy to dodge rather than fight, and most will still die in one or two hits if you plan your weapon acquisition routes accordingly.

Of course there are still the larger "sub-boss" enemies, but I think those are excused, and even those are usually very fast if you know them well, and even moreso if you exploit weapon weaknesses. I absolutely love the frisk pace of almost all the FC Rockman games, and I really wouldn't change a thing.

[Sumez]

http://www.romhacking.net/translations/2997/
Rusty for the PC-98 got a English translation patch.

Nice! Too bad the game is impossible to dig up. I've been on the lookout for it for years.

[soprano1]

http://www.romhacking.net/translations/2997/
Rusty for the PC-98 got a English translation patch.

Nice! Too bad the game is impossible to dig up. I've been on the lookout for it for years.

You mean a physical copy?

[Sumez]

Does anything else exist?

[soprano1]

Does anything else exist?

I meant finding a rom image...

[Sumez]

I'm not experienced in software piracy so I wouldn't even know where to start with that either

[dunpeal2064]

Put some time into Contra 3 Hard today. Good lord. Simultaneously brutal and fresh, the game changes up far more than I expected, even after hearing its rep for doing so. I genuinely thought I glitched the game when Stage 2's marks wouldn't come out of their bunkers Its rough, but quite enjoyable so far. The most difficult thing for me has been learning to alternate shots (Clear nub mode when you are alternating too fast/slow and getting even more dead time than usual!)

Quick question, since Google didn't turn anything up: How is the PS1 port of Dracula X68000? Its one I've read about many times here and always wanted to play, but I prefer real hardware when possible.

[Sumez]

The general consensus I've heard in here is that the PS1 version is watered down in the difficulty department, and has some collision detection wonkiness, most people wouldn't give up the original version for it. However, it's also my impression that if you've never played the original, then the PS1 version should be pretty servicable, and you won't notice the differences not knowing about them.
I don't even have an X68k, but I have the PS1 version, so I'll stick to that personally.

Contra 3 hard mode is absolutely a beast! It's amazing how very subtle changes to how everything works makes the game that much more hardcore. The biggest stopping point for me is the stage 4 boss. It's absurdly brutal, I just can't beat it.

[BIL]

It keeps their crisply precise platform/shooting, but otherwise ditches a lot of pace-sapping things that put me off. Roadblock enemies/setpieces for certain - there's an almost total absence of hard stops.

I don't think hard stops and roadblock enemies is really an issue in any of the FC rockmen.

At first I was like 3:< but then

Of course there are still the larger "sub-boss" enemies, but I think those are excused, and even those are usually very fast if you know them well, and even moreso if you exploit weapon weaknesses.

Yeah, it's those guys I mean. Top Man's big pussy et al. ;3 They're hardly on the annoyance level of eg Hard Corps' st1 cyclops, but given the generally simplistic shooting action I still chafe a bit at the imposition. I prefer how Lickle just lets the player keep motoring along without ever slamming on the brakes... Rockman 1's similar lack of these encounters is one reason it's my preferred of the six.

It may be that FC Rockmen are my MD Sonics, ie an iconic, generally high-quality series that simply doesn't chime with my ideals.

The general consensus I've heard in here is that the PS1 version is watered down in the difficulty department, and has some collision detection wonkiness, most people wouldn't give up the original version for it. However, it's also my impression that if you've never played the original, then the PS1 version should be pretty servicable, and you won't notice the differences not knowing about them.
I don't even have an X68k, but I have the PS1 version, so I'll stick to that personally.

Watered down is overstating it - I've one-lifed the first loop of both versions, and the biggest difference is the damage scale being a point harsher in the X68000 version's earlier stages. Even then, if you're used to one the other won't surprise much. Definitely not an Akumajou Densetsu vs Castlevania III case (referring to the PS1 port's Original Mode only, of course! Arrange is drastically easier and doesn't even loop).

[Sumez]

Top Man's pussies will set you back around 2 seconds with the buster if handled correctly. With a subweapon maybe 1-1.5 seconds.
I love these games especially for -not- making you stop and waste time.

[BIL]

Ohshi, yeah, that's a lot quicker than I recalled. I was playing mostly the first two games on my last series revisit... wouldn't surprise me if Woodman's dogs can be blown through similarly, haha. Air Man's stage was turning me off a bit in its waitier stretches, but even that's not especially slow-paced by wider standards.

[Sumez]

Air man's, really? I don't recall any larger enemies on that at all. That said, the platform cycles is a bit of a showstopper. I generally feel that Rockman 2 is a very overrated game, but I already touched on that. The wolves on wood man's stage is IMO one of the low points of the game. Kitamura even admits that section wasn't implemented very well.

[dunpeal2064]

Watered down is overstating it - I've one-lifed the first loop of both versions, and the biggest difference is the damage scale being a point harsher in the X68000 version's earlier stages. Even then, if you're used to one the other won't surprise much. Definitely not an Akumajou Densetsu vs Castlevania III case (referring to the PS1 port's Original Mode only, of course! Arrange is drastically easier and doesn't even loop).

Oh, this doesn't sound too bad then, especially if the scaling only applies to the early stages. For how highly its regarded, I assume this is a fine way to go about experiencing it then. Thanks yet again BIL

[NYN]

Make sure you watch my 1lc too!

I did.
And with a lively commentary.
Vanguard's one and yours to recent memory, I'm impressed how you both can entertain a personal style of play. Even with the requirements the game sets out, it has a character touch to it. It's not just "Aw, nah, Paul, they're at it 'gain wif th knives *sigh* Mah husban' is such an alcoholic...". More to the movements. In the line of risk/reward, spacing, being bold and playing it save while surviving.
Allowing those expressions coming through, is a real quality in the game itself. Or, for that matter, all those who are demanding with the consent to signature all over them.

BoB waz here and he liked it quite a bit, heh.

[Squire Grooktook]

I'm impressed how you both can entertain a personal style of play. Even with the requirements the game sets out, it has a character touch to it.

Ah, thank you! And I'm glad to hear such a thing is apparent. It's nice to know that playstyle becomes apparent in these games as much as it does in fighting games and the like.

Interestingly, recently playing a table top rpg, it's funny to note that I accidentally stumbled into a build/playstyle that more or less mimics the type of games I enjoy (emphasis on tactically using absolute "rapid" commands for impervious dodging and interrupting of key enemy attacks, combos and chain hits, etc.)

I'm not experienced in software piracy so I wouldn't even know where to start with that either

I have Rusty, Flame Zapper Kotsujin, Nightslave, Garudius, etc.

It's not hard to find them, there are forums and databases that archive them and usually send them out on request. Googling can help, I'll say no more for rules

I recieved one reccomendation for a modern side scroller similar to those, and that was Bleed 2. Does anybody have any other reccomendations for games similar to those 3 in particular?

Some top notch modern titles:

Gigantic Army (must play imo)
Noitu Love 2 (VERY Treasure influenced)
Iwanaga (same as the above, a bit annoying to get running in full screen though, but worth it)
Bleed 2
Bleed
Shovel Knight
Downwell
Koumajou Densetsu 2: Stranger's Requiem

Lesser Titles also worth a look:

Super Cyborg
Momodora: Reverie Under The Moonlight
Freedom Planet (also very Treasure influenced)
Fairy Bloom Freesia
Armored Hunter Gunhound Ex
Copy Kity
They Bleed Pixels
Rogue Legacy
Crescent Pale Mist*
Volgarr The Viking*
Oniken*
Odallus*

*I have come to outright dislike these 4, but they are technically solid games that may be worth a look depending on your tastes.

Make sure you watch my 1lc too!

Just looked this up. That was very nearly a no damage run!

Ha ha, yeah I didn't even realize till I watched the video later. Guess one more task to try going for later!

[dunpeal2064]

I figured I should right a wrong in my gaming repertoire before delving much deeper into sidescrolling action territory

Spoiler

This is a weird game for me. Its certainly excellent now that I've come to grips with it, but unlike Contra or Castlevania, it can be quite... well, an asshole while getting to that stage. I don't think its that much more difficult than Castlevania, but it manages to be far more frustrating initially.

However, the game always hints at there being excellence if persevered against, and learning the later stages, and especially figuring out the final boss rush, was thrilling. Jaquio is such a fantastic fight, no matter how practiced I became, it remained a tense encounter. Sadly, the final boss is fairly static in comparison, but maybe its for the better

I'll definitely be returning to this to improve. This was a 3CC, so far from masterful, but aside a few small moments, I think I have a decent route down.

Curious if the final bosses are supposed to/are usually done with sub weapons? I decided to assume the worst going in and so my strategies simply involved sword slashing through all 3. I'm not even sure if I had a sub weapon or not when I got the clear!

Overall, I think between the original NG, Vania, and Contra, this was the most difficult to come to terms with and least appealing on entry, but the experience it offers once practiced is so good that I think it may be my favorite between the three. Fantastic game.

[Sumez]

I think your last paragraphs explains Ninja Gaiden quite well!

You're not supposed to use subweapons against the final boss rush no, because they get taken away each time you beat one form. So you can effectively only use it against the first form which is a pushover anyway. You will be able to keep your subweapons if you get knocked back to the start of the stage and make it back to the boss you were at (which I'm sure must have happened at least a couple of times at first ), but this is obviously a fight you want to no-miss.

I'm reminded of the first time I cleared Ninja Gaiden all the way through. I used WAY more than two continues to do so. Like way way more. My immediate impression was "there's no way I could ever do this on one credit, the game is way too aggressive, and there's so much that can go wrong" - and then like the very next playthrough I did it with only a couple of continues, and the 1CC followed shortly after. Once you "learn" the game, it just clicks.

[BIL]

Welcome aboard dunpeal.

[dunpeal2064]

I'm reminded of the first time I cleared Ninja Gaiden all the way through. I used WAY more than two continues to do so. Like way way more. My immediate impression was "there's no way I could ever do this on one credit, the game is way too aggressive, and there's so much that can go wrong" - and then like the very next playthrough I did it with only a couple of continues, and the 1CC followed shortly after. Once you "learn" the game, it just clicks.

My first run through the game yesterday took probably 50+ continues After getting sent back from dying against the first last boss, having no idea how to begin tackling it, I cheesed out and just save-stated to practice the final boss rush in more detail. After doing that I restarted and went for a fresh run, which is why my continue usage was so much lower.


Watched BIL's No-Miss after finally getting the clear, and 1) Wtf, you can still normal attack in the air with the JS? I began hating the JS because I always felt I needed to conserve special, and not being able to jump attack sucks, and 2) Wtf, you can kill the tail on the final final boss? Holy crap, my strat was a cheeky jump and kinda wiggle in close enough to hit the heart without getting hit by the tail. It works I guess, but damn

Already tempted to spend another day with NG, even though I should get to other classic games that I've yet to play.

[FinalBaton]

Yep. hold down as you attack and you'll dish out a normal strike, thus conserving your ammo

[Sumez]

Spent some time with Mitsume Ga Tooru today. Been looking for this game for ages and finllay fell through with a good price earlier this year.
One of the less accessible Natsume gems, due to a relatively high market price and Japan exclusive release, but I'm sure I don't have to tell you guys about that.

Spoiler

I find it a highly enjoyable and extremely competent action platformer, falling just short of the edge that would make it stand out as you'd see with the Famicom's typical A-grade action sidescrollers, or even some of Natsume's own top titles. The general tone and gameplay reminds me a lot of Boku Dracula-Kun. Spent a few continues on Normal mode (the game only has Normal and Easy, I believe, don't know the difference), but could see myself going for a 1CC run. Probably shouldn't be too difficult, as the game is relatively easy, but some tricky platforming involving instakill spikes and such makes you have to learn several stages in order to build up a smooth run, which in turn will be awarded with keeping your upgraded weapons.

The game has a nice mechanic that allows you to get more ingame currency out of the coins left behind by enemies, if you're able to juggle them in the air. It's a bit repetitive though, and slows the game to a halt. So basically, if you're trying to cheese the game you get punished by ruining the flow of the game, which is a decent tradeoff I guess, as you can farm for a lot of 1ups by trying to maximize your coins. And similar to Gremlins 2, getting through unscathed will award you with more money left over for investing in additional extra lives.
There's also an interesting mechanic that allows you to throw a spear and jump on it in the air to reach new places, but for some reason it's criminally underutilized, and the long charge-up time makes it annoying to use on a whim. There are even several off-the-beaten-path places you can only reach by using it, but there doesn't seem to be anything to find there?

[soprano1]

Sumez, if you liked the music, there's an interesting podcast by Pixelated Audio with the game's composer here:
https://soundcloud.com/pixelated-audio/mitsume-ga-tooru

[FinalBaton]

love the crt screenshots Sumez

[BIL]

Watched BIL's No-Miss after finally getting the clear, and 1) Wtf, you can still normal attack in the air with the JS? I began hating the JS because I always felt I needed to conserve special, and not being able to jump attack sucks, and 2) Wtf, you can kill the tail on the final final boss? Holy crap, my strat was a cheeky jump and kinda wiggle in close enough to hit the heart without getting hit by the tail. It works I guess, but damn

Yeah, as Baton said, holding [down] while airborne will cancel the JS. Note that just like when hitting [up] to activate the other subweapons, the diagonals won't work, so you still can't leap forward and attack normally. The strict demand for [up/down] subweapon inputs is a conspicuously rare instance of NG handling more strictly than its blueprint Castlevania... I'd love to know how deliberate it was.

Note also, even if you're not actually carrying the JS, [down+attack] still results in a quicker sword slash; this can be glitch-cancelled into itself with the proper timing. It's a vital tool for speedkilling bosses, but even as a non-speedrunner, I find it helpful to know about - getting the sword out a few frames early has obvious advantages.

I actually had no idea you could even damage the final boss without first destroying its tail! Good intel.

[Sumez]

Sumez, if you liked the music, there's an interesting podcast by Pixelated Audio with the game's composer here:
https://soundcloud.com/pixelated-audio/mitsume-ga-tooru

I really enjoyed the soundtrack actually! Some tracks had an almost Battletoads-esque vibe to them.

love the crt screenshots Sumez

I really need to get on with that RGB mod though....
I always snatch pictures from the monitor when completing games, for my game-related Instagram thingy https://www.instagram.com/gamewiring/