Classic arcade shooter difficulty ranking (also 8/16-bit!)

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Perikles
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Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2014 11:46 pm
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Classic arcade shooter difficulty ranking (also 8/16-bit!)

Post by Perikles »

After a suitable while of cogitation, mulling, reflection and gnawing doubts, here's my attempt at a difficulty list for classic shooters. I've also tossed in the few aberrant shooters I've cleared so that you can compare them with all the other games. This list is obviously inspired by the Japanese wiki, thus I used the same grades. I want to thank vvv_stg for coming up with this neat format, I think it makes for a pleasant reading experience. A few notes before we start:

- Only games I've cleared on a single credit myself. All of these were played on the default settings (difficulty/extends) with the exception of autofire (see next paragraph). I will add more games as/when/if I clear them.

- Every game was played with autofire if/when it was beneficial, I directly priced that into the ratings. This also means using some 30hz in, say Darius Gaiden or Area 88. I believe I've used a less-than-optimal rate in U.S. Navy, but that doesn't matter much in any case. You'd also be wise to not set up your autofire too high for Twin Eagle lest you might find yourself in an interesting situation...

- Those rankings reflect survival. Now, in most of these games, survival and scoring goes hand in hand (unless we're talking about checkpoint milking). But there are a few cases where it could make a palpable difference. Survival play doesn't necessarily include taking extreme measures. Most notably, Gokujou Parodius can be kept at minimum rank at all times if you take special preparations (suiciding, constantly activating the "OMG" field, avoiding every bell to keep the score low). That's not what I have in mind; if you have to drop a bell chain for survival or hold back on a few upgrades then that's fine.

- I tried to incorporate player sides, characters and version differences whenever I was aware of them. Since I haven't played every single game with every character, those notes can be a bit vague at times. I also probably forgot some things.

- It should be explicitly noticed that this is merely my own personal experience. I am thankful when you guys chime in to agree, disagree and generally give your own thoughts on it for you probably have different strengths and weaknesses. I find methodical games with heaps of memorization and less execution to be tendentially easier than those with really fast bullets. Someone else might have a lot of problems with terrain-infiltrated horizontals and comparatively little trouble with frantic verticals. I'm also not adamant about a couple of points here and there. A 25 rating could probably be just as well a 24, a 26 or a 23.

- I couldn't use some of the special characters due to the formatting, hence "Galaga 88" instead of Galaga '88, no "Revenge Joe's Brother" after "Twin Eagle", Asuka + Asuka as opposed to Asuka & Asuka etc.

That's enough for the preface. Here's the list:


Arcade list
##TitleGoalNotes
45Battlantis2-ALLJapan Version
43Argus1-ALL/16 Areas
41Xexex2-ALLJapan Version
40Same! Same! Same!1-ALL1P Version with checkpoints; -22 for Fire Shark
Tatsujin Ou1-ALL-4 for Truxton II
39Image Fight2-ALLJapan Version, -10 for 2-ALL of the World Version; no Penalty Zones
38R-Type II2-ALLJapan Version
37Gokujou ParodiusALLwith Koitsu; including Special Stage
36Grind Stormer2-ALLidentical to V-V Bomber Version
35Raiden II1-ALL
34V-V2-ALL
33Raiden DX1-ALLExpert Course, no Stage 1-9; 2P Side
Trigon2-ALL
32Master of WeaponALL
Thunder Dragon1-ALL
Zing Zing Zip1-ALL
31Hacha Mecha Fighter1-ALL
Mahou Keibitai Gun Hohki2-ALL
Salamander 22-ALL2P Side
Shienryu2-ALL
Viper Phase 1ALL/1-ALLNew Version, Japan or World
30Gradius III1-ALLJapan Version, Type B
Thunder Dragon 2ALL2P Side
Turbo Force1-ALL
War of Aero2-ALL
29RezonALL
R-Type2-ALL
28Air Duel2-ALL
Armed Police Unit Gallop2-ALL
Battlantis1-ALLJapan Version
Black Heart1-ALLJapan Version
Cosmo Gang: The VideoALL
Sexy ParodiusALLwith Mambo; including Special Stage
Star Force1-ALL/clearing the first Infinity Area
27Daioh2-ALLUS Version
Dragon SaberALLJapan Version
P-47 AcesALL
Sonic Wings2-ALLJapan Version, with Kohful; -3 for Aero Fighters or one of the easy Sonic Wings sets
Thunder BlasterALL-25 for Lethal Thunder
TwinBee Yahhoo!ALLNormal Course, no extends; survival play
Valtric1-ALLusing exploit against final boss
VarthALLWorld Version
26DoDonPachi II: Bee StormALLCombat, including TLB
Gun.SmokeALL
Uchuu Senkan GomoraALL
X-Multiply2-ALL
25Acrobat MissionALL
ASO II: Last Guardian2-ALL
Exed Exes1-ALL/16 Stages
F/AALLwith JA37
Flak Attack2-ALL
Twin EagleALL
ViewpointALL
241943: The Battle of MidwayALL
Batsugun Special4-ALLwith Beltiana
Choujikuu Yousai Macross2-ALL
Dangun FeveronALLType B, no TLB
E.D.F.: Earth Defense ForceALL
Gokujou ParodiusALLwith Koitsu or Michael; no Special Stage
Gradius IV1-ALLType 6
Mr. Heli no DaiboukenALL
231941: Counter AttackALL
Detana!! TwinBee1-ALL
Dogyuun1-ALLJapan Version, +13 for 2-ALL
Dragon Breed2-ALL
Flying TigerALL
Gunbird 21-ALLwith Tavia
Kyuukyoku Tiger1-ALL-6 for Twin Cobra; 26 total for Twin Cobra 2-ALL
Parodius Da!1-ALLwith Octopus or TwinBee
Raiden1-ALL2P side, World Version/no checkpoints, +1 for Japan Version
RayforceALL
Trigon1-ALL
22A-JAXALL
Double Wings2-ALL
Gun FrontierALL
P-47: The Freedom Fighter1-ALL
Tatsujin1-ALLJapan Version
Ultra KeibitaiALLreally dependent on luck
21Batsugun Special3-ALLwith Beltiana
Dragon Blaze1-ALLwith Sonia
Grid Seeker: Project Storm HammerALL
NostradamusALL2P Side
Raiden FightersALLwith Slave
Sengoku Ace2-ALLwith Aine
Strikers 1945 II1-ALLwith Hayate
Strikers 1945 Plus1-ALLwith Flying Pancake
20Blazing StarALLwith Windina
Choutetsu BrikingerALLending in 6C/long route
Cyvern1-ALLwith Ferious
Eight Forces1-ALLwith Geki Tsubasa
Koutetsu Yousai StrahlALL
Operation RagnarokALL
Shienryu1-ALL
Skull FangALLJapan Version, Chase Mode
Tenseiryuu: Saint DragonALL
War of Aero1-ALL
1919XX: The War Against DestinyALL
Akuu GalletALL
ASO: Armored Scrum Object1-ALL
FixEight1-ALLJapan Version
Grind Stormer1-ALLidentical to V-V Bomber Version
Nebulas RayALLno Special Stage
R-Type1-ALL
Scramble Spirits1-ALL
Sol Divide1-ALLwith Tyora; really dependent on luck, also terrible
Sonic Wings 21-ALLwith Mao Mao
V-V1-ALL
18Cotton2-ALL
Daioh1-ALLUS Version
Darius IIALL+- one or two points depending on route
DoDonPachi Daioujou Black Label1-ALL
Mahou Daisakusen1-ALLwith Miyamoto or Bornnam
PheliosALLHard Difficulty, -14 for Easy
R-Type II1-ALLJapan Version
US AAF Mustang1-ALL
Wyvern Wings1-ALLwith Hellhound
Xexex1-ALLJapan Version
171942ALL
Air BusterALL
Air Duel1-ALL
Armed Police Unit Gallop1-ALL
ASO II: Last Guardian1-ALL
BlaZeonALL+16 for every Perfect bonus
CybattlerALL
Game Tengoku1-ALL
Kiki Kaikai1-ALL
Mazinger Z1-ALL
Sonic Wings1-ALLJapan Version, with Kohful; -5 for Aero Fighters or one of the easy Sonic Wings sets
Strikers 19991-ALLwith X-36
Vapor Trail1-ALLwith Seylen; without abusing rapid rapidfire exploit
161945k IIIALLwith Tornado
Daisenpuu1-ALL+7 for Twin Hawk, +12 for a Daisenpuu 2-ALL
Dragon SpiritALLNew Version
Galaga 88ALLending in Dimension 2/easiest route
Gemini WingALL
Image Fight1-ALLno Penalty Zone
Mad Shark1-ALL
Prehistoric Isle in 1930ALL
Rabio LepusALLNormal Course
Raiden DXALLNovice Course, 2P Side
Ryu JinALL
Sengeki Striker1-ALLJapan Version
Space BomberALLVersion B, with Tetris Block
Ultimate EcologyALL
15Dangerous SeedALLhardest route
DariusALL+- one or two points depending on route; Darius Extra has roughly the same values
Double Wings1-ALL
EspgaludaALLwith Ageha
Forgotten WorldsALL
Giga WingALLwith Ruby, 2P Side
Hyper DuelALL
Kaitei DaisensouALL
Progear no Arashi1-ALLJapan Version
PulstarALL
R-Type LeoALLJapan Version, -3 for World Version
Sexy ParodiusALLwith Koitsu or Mambo; no Special Stage, survival course
Super-X1-ALL
Tiger-Heli1-ALL
Twinkle Star SpritesALLStory Mode
VasaraALLwith Saiga
Zero Wing1-ALL1P Version with checkpoints
14Airwolf1-ALL/8 Stagesclearing four stages should constitute as a loop, however, the game only acknowledges a loop beaten after eight stages
BatsugunALLwith Beltiana
Gradius II1-ALLType 4; +14 for 2-ALL, +19 for 3-ALL, +24 for 4-ALL and more
Gunbird1-ALLwith Yuan-Nang or Tetsu
Hyper Dyne Side ArmsALL
Kyuukyoku Tiger IIALL-5 for Twin Cobra II
Raiden Fighters JetALL2with Fairy
R-Shark1-ALLNormal; further loops stay the same in terms of difficulty
Sonic Boom1-ALL
Strikers 19451-ALLwith Bf-109
13Batsugun Special2-ALLwith Beltiana
Battle BakraidALLNormal Course
Choujikuu Yousai Macross IIALLExpert Course, completing all four Stages
DonPachi1-ALLscrubby bomb clear
Hellfire1-ALL1P Version with checkpoints
Last Resort2-ALL
Meta FoxALL
Omega Fighter1-ALLdependent on luck
Out Zone1-ALL+4 for 2-ALL, +9 for 3-ALL, +13 for 4-ALL, +17 for 5-ALL and more
Pistol Daimyo no BoukenALLeasiest route, really dependent on luck
SilkwormALL/clearing Wave 11with Jeep
Sonic Wings LimitedALLending in Another Dimension
X-Multiply1-ALL
121943 KaiALL
Andro Dunos1-ALL
Change Air BladeALL
Dragon Breed1-ALL
Finalizer: Super Transformation1-ALL
Final Star ForceALL
GalmedesALL
Gulf War II1-ALL
Hishouzame1-ALL-1 for World Versions, more when going for several loops; +7 for 2-ALL, +11 for 3-ALL, +13 for 4-ALL and more
Hotdog StormALL
Mahou Keibitai Gun Hohki1-ALL
PolluxALL
Raiga: Strato Fighter2-ALL
Salamander1-ALL+7 for 2-ALL, +15 for 3-ALL
Salamander 21-ALL2P Side
Sky Smasher1-ALL
Storm Blade2-ALL
Task Force Harrier1-ALL+6 for 2-ALL
Wonder 3 - Chariot ALL
11Choujikuu Yousai Macross IIALLMedium Course, completing all four Stages
Darius GaidenALLsurvival route
Fire Barrel3-ALL
GunNailALL
Gyruss1-ALL
Halleys Comet1-ALL
Koukuu Kihei Monogatari1-ALL
Life Force1-ALLJapan Version, 1P Side; +6 for 2-ALL, +14 for 3-ALL
Metal BlackALL
Rapid HeroALL
Sengoku Blade1-ALLwith Aine
TwinBee1-ALL/5 Stages+5 for 2-ALL, +11 for 3-ALL
U.S. NavyALL
Xevious1-ALL/16 Distinct Forests
10DoDonPachi1-ALLscrubby bomb clear
Gradius1-ALL+13 for 2-ALL, +18 for 3-ALL
Gyrodine1-ALL+3 for 2-ALL, +9 for 3-ALL and more
Last Duel1-ALLJapan Version
OrdyneALL
Rafflesia1-ALL
Section Z1-ALLextends at 30,000 and every 70,000 thereafter
Sengoku Ace1-ALLwith Aine
Thunder Cross II1-ALL1P Side; +6 for 2-ALL, +15 for 3-ALL, +21 for 4-ALL, +27 for 5-ALL
9Armed Police BatriderALLNormal Course
Atomic Robo-KidALL
Bakuretsu Breaker1-ALL
Choujikuu Yousai Macross1-ALL
Cotton1-ALL
Formation Armed FALL
Last Resort1-ALL
Plus Alpha1-ALL
Shippu Mahou Daisakusen1-ALLwith Miyamoto
Sky AdventureALL
Super Cobra1-ALL
8Blue Hawk1-ALL
Chimera BeastALL
Exzisus1-ALL-1 for US Version; 18 total for 2-ALL of the US Version
MercsALL
Raiden Fighters 2ALLwith Fairy
Sonic Wings 31-ALLwith Blazers, Japan Version
Stagger 1ALL
Time Pilot1-ALL/5 Stages
Vulgus1-ALL+4 for 2-ALL, +8 for 3-ALL, +10 for 4-ALL and more
7Choujikuu Yousai Macross IIALLBeginner Course, completing all four Stages
Chuka TaisenALL
Fire Barrel2-ALL
Flak Attack1-ALL
RepulseALL
Sky Alert1-ALL
Strike Gunner S.T.GALL
Twinkle Star SpritesALLCharacter Mode with Nanja Monja
6Blast-OffALL
Fantasy Zone1-ALL+10 for 2-ALL
Gulf Storm1-ALL
Heavy Unit1-ALL
Mega Zone1-ALL+7 for 2-ALL
Slap Fight1-ALL+4 for 2-ALL, +8 for 3-ALL, +14 for 4-ALL
ThundercadeALL
Thunder Force ACALLJapan Version
Wangan SensouALLExpert
YoujyudenALL
5Area 88ALL
Ashura Blaster1-ALL+2 for 2-ALL and however many loops more
Batsugun Special1-ALLwith Beltiana
Captain TomadayALL
Commando1-ALL
MegablastALL
Raiga: Strato Fighter1-ALL
Thunder Cross1-ALLJapan Version; +4 for 2-ALL, +9 for 3-ALL, +15 for 4-ALL, +17 for 5-ALL, +19 for 6-ALL
Wing Force2-ALL
4Darius Gaiden ExtraALL1P Side
Fantasy Zone II: The Tears of Opa-Opa1-ALLSystem 16, bad ending/ALL
Fighting HawkALL
GekirindanALL2P Side, Type C
Prehistoric Isle 2ALL
Sand Scorpion1-ALL
Terra Cresta1-ALL/after 4 Boss Fights
3Fire Barrel1-ALL
Labyrinth RunnerALL
Raiden DXALLTraining Course, no qualification, 2P Side
Submarine1-ALL
UFO Robo Dangar1-ALL/after 3 Dimensional Rifts
Vimana1-ALL+5 for 2-ALL and however many loops more
24-D Warriors1-ALL+4 for 2-ALL
ArbalesterALL
Scramble1-ALL+2 for 2-ALL, +4 for 3-ALL, +6 for 4-ALL and more
Sky SoldiersALL
Storm Blade1-ALL
The Last Day1-ALL
Varia MetalALL
Wangan SensouALLAverage
1Asuka + AsukaALL
Dog Fight1-ALL/5 Stages
Insector XALL
Magmax1-ALL
Ninja Emaki1-ALLroughly +1 or +2 for every loop thereafter
Scorpion1-ALL
Terra ForceALL
Vanguard1-ALL+1 for 2-ALL, no increase in difficulty thereafter
Wangan SensouALLBeginner
Wing Force1-ALL



Edit for 16-bit games!

- I specify the difficulty if the game happens to start on something other than Normal. I always have internal autofire in mind (even if it is turned off by default), for the PCE even external autofire. I mention it where it matters on the SFC/MD. For everything else, see above (especially for the part about formatting, I really didn't want to call the game "Popn TwinBee", for example...)

16-bit list
##TitleGoalNotes
29R-Type2-ALL
Zombies Ate My NeighborsALL
28Grind Stormer2-ALL
27Aero Blasters/Air Buster PCE1-ALL
26R-Type III: The Third Lightning2-ALLwith Shadow Force
25Battle Squadron1-ALLwith external autofire
LegionALLlonger, ironically easier route
Mr. Heli no Daibouken2-ALLArcade Mode
Raiden Densetsu/Raiden Trad MDALLincluding Special Stage, Normal
24Aero Blasters/Air Buster MDALL
Gokujou Parodius2-ALLincluding Special Stage; with Dracula-kun; -10 for not beating Special Stage
V-V2-ALL
23Axelay2-ALLHard
Metamor JupiterALLExpert
Rayxanber IIALL
Sonic Wings2-ALLwith Kohful and external autofire
22Acrobat MissionALLno external autofire
Grind Stormer1-ALL
Tatsujin/Truxton MD1-ALLJapanese MD version; +13 for 2-ALL
21Kyuukyoku Tiger PCE2-ALL
Image FightALLLeader Class
Spriggan PoweredALL
Steam-HeartsALL
20Axelay3-ALL
Kyuukyoku Tiger/Twin Cobra MD1-ALL+5 for 2-ALL
Mr. Heli no Daibouken2-ALLNormal Mode
Raiden Densetsu/Raiden Trad MDALLno Special Stage, Normal
Star SoldierALLwith external autofire
Super R-Type2-ALLNormal
Tatsujin PCE1-ALL+5 for 2-ALL
19Daisenpuu/Twin Hawk MD1-ALLJapanese MD Version; Hard, +11 for 2-ALL
Raiden PCE1-ALL1P Side
R-Type1-ALLor ALL for R-Type Complete CD
Super Raiden1-ALL+6 for 2-ALL
18Dennin Aleste/Robo AlesteALL
Dragon SpiritALL
GranadaALLNormal
V-V1-ALL
Violent SoldierALL
17Burning AngelsALL
Cotton - Fantastic Night Dreams2-ALL
Eliminate DownALL1LC; -5 for regular 1CC
Ginga Fukei Densetsu SapphireALL+7 for 1LC, roughly +13 for NMNB and great score, if not more
Kiki KaikaiALL
Master of WeaponALLNormal
P-47 - The Freedom FighterALL
16Darwin 4081ALLNormal
Dimension Force/D-ForceALL
Dragon SaberALL
Final BlasterALL
Image Fight IIALL
Kidou Soukou Dion/ImperiumALLKidou Soukou Dion, -2 for Imperium, 19 total for a Dion clear on Hard
Senjou no Ookami II/MercsALLArcade Mode
Star Force1-ALL/clearing the first Infinity Areawith external autofire
SilpheedALL
Thunder Force IVALL1LC; -3 for regular 1CC; US Version is a bit easier due to a weaker Gargoylediver, yet not enough to warrant a different rating
Vapor TrailALLwith Seylen; Hard
15BlaZeon1-ALL+2 for 2-ALL and more
Cyber CoreALL1LC; -5 for regular 1CC
Gokuraku! Chuka TaisenALL
Keio Yuugekitai/Keio Flying SquadronALL
Mr. Heli no Daibouken1-ALLArcade Mode
Parodius Da! SFC1-ALL+19 for 2-ALL
SD Kidou Senshi Gundam: V Sakusen ShidouALL
Task Force Harrier EXALL
UndeadlineALL1LC; +6 for a 1LC on Crazy
Whip RushALL1LC; -5 for regular 1CC; -1 for external autofire
14Area 88/U.N. SquadronALL
Bouken Danshaku Don: The Lost Sun-HeartALL
Daisenpuu/Twin Hawk MD1-ALLEasy; +8 for 2-ALL, +15 for 3-ALL
Darius PlusALL
GaiaresALL
Hellfire MD1-ALLJapanese MD Version, Hard; +8 for 2-ALL
Paranoia2-ALL
Psycho Chaser1-ALL+13 for 2-ALL and more
Sol-Deace/Sol-FeaceALL
Sonic Wings/Aero Fighters1-ALLwith Rabio and without external autofire or with Kohful and external autofire; ALL in the case of SNES Aero Fighters
Super DariusALL
Super Darius IIALL
13Axelay2-ALL
Bari-Arm/Android AssaultALL
Detana!! TwinBee1-ALLif played partially for score, -5 for sheer survival; can go up to 24 or so for keeping a perfect bell chain throughout the loop; +23 for a 2-ALL, that is to say 36 total
Galaga 88/Galaga 90ALLending in Fourth Dimension; -3 for every other Dimension
Gynoug/Wings of Wor2-ALLNormal Difficulty in case of Wings of Wor
Kiki Kaikai: Nazo no Kuro Manto/Pocky and RockyALL+2 for Hard
Kyuukyoku Tiger PCE1-ALL
Parodius Da! PCE1-ALL+17 for 2-ALL
R-Type III: The Third Lightning1-ALLwith Shadow Force
12BarunbaALL
Forgotten Worlds PCEALLusing exploit against final boss
Gradius II1-ALLType 4; +14 for 2-ALL, +18 for 3-ALL and more; +3 for 1-ALL on Professional
Hector 87ALLwith external autofire
Hyper Dyne Side ArmsALLboth HuCard and CD version; Before Christ Mode has the same value as the regular mode in Side Arms Special
L-DisALL
Mr. Heli no Daibouken1-ALLNormal Mode
ViewpointALL
11Atomic Robo-Kid MDALLNormal; no external autofire, -2 with it
Cosmo Gang: The VideoALLno external autofire
Daisenpuu Custom1-ALL+11 for 2-ALL, +14 for 3-ALL
Down Load 2ALL
Earth Defense/The Earth DefendALL
Metal StokerALL
Rabio Lepus Special1-ALL
Uzu Geobukseon/KeobukseonALL
Xenon 2 Megablast1-ALL
Xevious1-ALL/16 Distinct ForestsArcade Mode
Zero Wing PCEALL
10AvengerALL
Axelay1-ALLHard
Daisenpuu PCE1-ALL+10 for 2-ALL, +13 for 3-ALL
Deep Blue1-ALL
Gokujou ParodiusALLincluding Special Stage; with Dracula-kun or Koitsu; -5 for not beating Special Stage
Heavy Unit PCE2-ALL
NexzrALL+2 for Hard
PhalanxALL1LC on Normal; -2 for regular 1CC
Same! Same! Same!/Fire Shark1-ALLJapanese MD Version, Normal; +5 for 2-ALL, +10 for 3-ALL and more
Super E.D.F./Earth Defense ForceALL+3 for Hard; US version is slightly harder
Super R-Type1-ALLNormal
Zero Wing MD1-ALLNormal; +8 for 2-ALL, +15 for 3-ALL
9Choujikuu Yousai Macross: Scrambled ValkyrieALLwith Hikaru
Darius II/SagaiaALL1LC; -2 for regular 1CC; 16 total for a 1LC on Very Hard
Darius Force/Super NovaALLroute ending with O Zone; -2 for route ending with N, -4 for route ending with L; 16 total for a clear ending with O Zone on Hard
Kiaidan 00ALL+2 or +3 for scoring run
Magical ChaseALLif played at least partially for score; -2 for sheer survival
Paranoia/Psychosis1-ALL
Super Airwolf/CrossfireALL
Terra Cresta IIALL
XeviousALLFardraut Mode
8BioMetalALL+2 for clear on Hard
Cho AnikiALL
Forgotten Worlds MDALL
Gynoug/Wings of Wor1-ALLNormal Difficulty in case of Wings of Wor
Hani in the Sky1-ALL
Hellfire SALLNormal
PheliosALLAdvanced Course
Senjou no Ookami II/MercsALLOriginal Mode
Strike Gunner S.T.GALLDifficulty 2/Normal
Thunder Force IIALL
Twinkle TaleALL
Uchuu Senkan Gomora/Bio-Ship PaladinALLwith external autofire
7Down LoadALL
Gradius1-ALL+4 for 2-ALL, +9 for 3-ALL, +18 for 4-ALL and more
Gradius III1-ALL+3 for 2-ALL, +8 for 3-ALL, +17 for 4-ALL and more; +2 for 1-ALL of Arcade Difficulty
Hana Tahka Daka!?ALLgood ending; -3 for bad ending
Hellfire MD1-ALLJapanese MD Version, Easy; +3 for every loop thereafter, for a maximum of +15 for 6-ALL
Jikkyo Oshaberi Parodius1-ALL+10 for 2-ALL
Koutetsu Teikoku/Empire of SteelALLNMNB; -3 for regular 1CC; 10 total for a NMNB on Hard, 7 for a regular 1CC on Hard
Salamander1-ALLExpert; +7 for every loop thereafter, for a maximum of +14 for a 3-ALL
61943 KaiALL
Fantasy Zone1-ALL+5 for 2-ALL, +7 for 3-ALL, +9 for 4-ALL
Gate of ThunderALL1LC; -2 for regular 1CC
Gunhed/Blazing LazersALL+15 for God of Game
Kiki Kaikai: Tsukiyo Soushi/Pocky and Rocky 2ALL
Musha AlesteALL
PC Denjin - Punkic Cyborgs/Air ZonkALL
Popn TwinBee1-ALLif played at least partially for score; -3 for sheer survival; 32 total for a 2-ALL
Salamander1-ALLBeginner; +5 for every loop thereafter, for a maximum of +15 for 4-ALL
Super Star SoldierALL+20 for Sugeeze
Thunder Force IIIALL1LC; -3 for regular 1CC
VerytexALL
W-Ring: The Double Rings1-ALL+5 for 2-ALL, +7 for 3-ALL, +9 for 4-ALL
5Archer MacLeans Super Dropzone1-ALLno external autofire
Axelay1-ALL
Cotton - Fantastic Night Dreams1-ALL
Crying/Bio-Hazard BattleALLusing autofire/playing the US Version that has it by default; +5 for clear of Hard difficulty, +14 for Hardest
Dead MoonALL
Firemen, TheALL
God Panic2-ALL
Heavy Unit PCE1-ALL
Insector XALL
Rayxanber IIIALL+7 for clear on Maniac
Rendering Ranger R²ALL
Seirei Senshi SprigganALL
Soldier BladeALL+12 for Hard
Super SWIV/Firepower 2000ALLwith Jeep
Thunder SpiritsALL1LC; -3 for regular 1CC
Toilet KidsALL
Toy Shop BoysALLno bonus for subsequent loops
Uchuu no Kishi: Tekkaman BladeALLbest game of all time
XDR - X-Dazedly-Ray1-ALL+5 for 2-ALL
4Atomic Robo-Kid SpecialALL
Choujikuu Yousai Macross 2036ALL
CurseALL
Darius AlphaALL
Divine SealingALL
Elemental MasterALL+3 for clear of Mania difficulty
Fire Mustang1-ALL
Ikari no YousaiALL
OrdyneALL
3Adventurous BoyALL
Arrow FlashALL
CD Denjin - Rockabilly Tengoku/Super Air Zonk: Rockabilly ParadiseALL
Dangerous SeedALL
Darius TwinALLeasiest route, sitting in the upper corner during final level; +3 for hardest route and fighting captains in final stage
Flying Hero: Bugyuru no DaiboukenALL
Gadget TwinsALL
GleylancerALL
God Panic1-ALL
Hawk F-123ALL
Heavy Unit MDALL
Märchen Adventure Cotton 100%ALL
Mega SWIVALLwith Jeep
Override1-ALL+2 for 2-ALL and more
Raiden Densetsu/Raiden Trad SFCALL
Rock-OnALLafter figuring out how the hell to proceed in the stages
SD Kidou Senshi Gundam 2ALLhardest route, -1 or -2 for the others
Slap Fight1-ALL+2 for every loop thereafter, for a maximum of +14 for 8-ALL
Slap Fight Special1-ALL+3 for every loop thereafter, for a maximum of +21 for 8-ALL
Spriggan Mark 2 - Re-Terraform ProjectALL
Super Aleste/Space MegaforceALL+9 for Tricky
Super Fantasy Zone1-ALL+4 for 2-ALL, +8 for 3-ALL, +13 for 4-ALL
Tenseiryu: Saint DragonALL
Terraforming/Syd Meads TerraformingALL
Thunderbolt IIALL
Winds of Thunder/Lords of ThunderALLPCE CD version, -1 for MCD version; up to -2 if you spam bombs; 4 total for clear of Super Difficulty on MCD
2Battle Mania/Trouble ShooterALL
Battle Mania DaiginjouALL+1 for Hard
Daioh GaleALL+1 for Hard
Final SoldierALL
Power GateALL
Psychic StormALL
Star ParodierALL+1 for Sugeeze/Hard
SylphiaALL+3 for Special Hard
1Ai Cho AnikiALLby abusing invincibility twirl all the time; +2 or +3 without doing that
CoryoonALL
Magic GirlALL




Another edit for NES/Famicom games!

- Same applies as with 16-bit games, except for the fact that external autofire is considered whenever beneficial and unless noted otherwise.


NES/Famicom list
##TitleGoalNotes
20Star SoldierALL
17Chuka Taisen1-ALL
16ReccaALLNormal Mode
SilkwormALLwith Heli
Star Force1-ALL/clearing the first Infinity AreaFamicom version, NES version is significantly harder
15ZanacALLNES Version
14Sky Shark1-ALL
131943: The Battle of MidwayALL
Abarenbou TenguALLHard; -7 for Easy
12Hector 87ALL
Seicross1-ALL
Shin Jinrui: The New Type1-ALL
Sqoon1-ALLno increase in difficulty upon looping
11Section ZALL
Silver SurferALL
10Xevious1-ALL/16 Distinct Forests
9Fantasy Zone1-ALLSunsoft Version
8Crisis ForceALL
7Burai FighterALLEagle Difficulty
Over HorizonALLnot leeching extra lives in the final stage
Parodius Da!1-ALLregardless of character, further loops stay almost exactly the same in difficulty
Terra Cresta1-ALLNES Version, Famicom Version is harder
6Argus1-ALL/9 Stages+10 for 2-ALL
Gun.Smoke3-ALL
Kyuukyoku TigerALL
Moero TwinBee1-ALL
5Exed Exes1-ALL/16 Stagesno external autofire
Final Commando1-ALL+5 for 2-ALL, +7 for 3-ALL, +8 for 4-ALL
Gradius1-ALL+4 for 2-ALL, +8 for 3-ALL, +9 for 4-ALL and more
Gun.Smoke2-ALL
Gyruss1-ALL+7 for 2-ALL, +9 for 3-ALL and more
Image Fight2-ALL
Tiger-Heli1-ALL+5 for 2-ALL
TwinBee1-ALL/5 Stages
4AbadoxALL
ASO1-ALL/12 Stagesclearing six stages should constitute as a loop, however, the game only acknowledges a loop beaten after twelve stages
Baltron1-ALL+4 for 2-ALL
Gun.Smoke1-ALL
Jackal1-ALL+5 for 2-ALL
S.C.A.T.ALLFamicom Version Final Mission is considerably harder
31942ALLno external autofire
Gradius II1-ALLirregardless of Type, further loops stay almost exactly the same in difficulty
Image Fight1-ALL
Insector X1-ALLno increase in difficulty upon looping
Life Force1-ALL+2 for 2-ALL, +3 for 3-ALL
Robocco WarsALL
Salamander1-ALL+2 for 2-ALL
TwinBee 31-ALLHard; further loops stay almost exactly the same in difficulty
2Dragon Spirit: Aratanaru DensetsuALLBlue Dragon
Legendary Wings1-ALLno increase in difficulty upon looping
TwinBee 31-ALLEasy; +1 for 2-ALL and more
Twin EagleALL
1Choujikuu Yousai Macross1-ALLroughly +2 for every loop thereafter
Dezaemon - E.D.I.T. ALL
Gun-NacALLIntermediate
Magmax1-ALLfurther loops stay almost exactly the same in difficulty
Sea of DreamlandALL
Last edited by Perikles on Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:47 pm, edited 154 times in total.
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Re: Classic arcade shooter difficulty ranking

Post by trap15 »

Few things I disagree on:
- Master of Weapon is nowhere near that hard, you just have to get drunk and ignore the background. I'd drop it at least 6 points, probably more.
- Mad Shark can probably drop 2 points, it's definitely not harder than FixEight at least.
- Would maybe drop USAAF Mustang 2 points or more, since it's so trivial until the last stage. Maybe that's why it's where it's at though :)
- Tiger-Heli I'd drop 2 or 3 points, the difficulty is mostly not falling asleep or ripping your ears out from the power up music.
- Omega Fighter could probably stand a few points higher, it's much harder than DonPachi 1-ALL bombspam clear.
- Would either drop Gunnail down a point, or raise Rapid Hero up a point, leaning towards the latter.
- Sand Scorpion up one point.

And an addition of "secondary" setting:
- Thunder Dragon 2 on 1P side is probably -3

Overall mostly agree, very nice list and good to see your rankings finally!
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Re: Classic arcade shooter difficulty ranking

Post by Vludi »

Cool list, some thoughts:

-Raiden: I would remark that it's the no checkpoints version, since the one with checkpoints is probably as difficult as Raiden 2/DX.
-I feel like TD2 should be like 3 points lower, Gradius III is an exhaustingly long game that requires tons of strategizing from stage 3 onwards, while TD2 doesn't get that difficult until the last 2 or 3 stages.
-Star Force should be in the early 30s for me, I found it quite vicious but maybe I'm just terrible at it.
-Scramble: I would add that multilooping it would be like +10 points, the game reaches max difficulty at loop 3 or 4 and even then it's easy to master (I cleared 10 loops without much practice), the only difficult part is that you only get one extend.
-I remember Baron Rojo told me that Thunder Dragon was easier to clear than TD2, mainly because the extends help a lot.
-Hishouzame reaches max difficulty at loop 4?
-Funny how much Sengoku Blade dropped, 24 points definitely was inappropriate although I'd put it on par with Strikers and Gunbird.
-For Twin Cobra I'd say that it's more like -10 (similar in difficulty to Hishouzame), the game gives you so many extends that if you are able to reach stage 6 or 7 without dying the rest is trivial. Also when you die on a boss the game pretty much kills it for you.
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Re: Classic arcade shooter difficulty ranking

Post by Plasmo »

Really good stuff!

But Gradius III more difficult than IV? That's the first time I hear about such a view.

And a question: where would you rank Hacha Mecha Fighters? Would be cool if you try it out if you haven't already. :)
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Re: Classic arcade shooter difficulty ranking

Post by Cee »

Plasmo wrote:
But Gradius III more difficult than IV? That's the first time I hear about such a view.
The first loop definitely is, ivs difficulty is massively overrated because most people in the west quit a game within 3 hrs before they understand how it works on any level. Iv's a very fair game until loop 3 then it's dirt sandwich all the way.
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Re: Classic arcade shooter difficulty ranking

Post by Plasmo »

Well, nothing is worse than the cube rush, so you've got a point there.
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Re: Classic arcade shooter difficulty ranking

Post by chum »

the higher numbers seem pretty inflated on the whole but the thing that just stuns me is this:

gun.smoke is even with bee storm

maybe this is just me, but bee storm is not a hard 1cc bya ny means, and gun.smoke is hands down one of the hardest to beat shmups i have played, i would put it up there as high as tatsujin ou which is mildly overrated. ofc if noone else finds gunsmoke hard then im just weird i guess. there are some other things i would change around as well, strikers 1-alls are easy for example (why is ii so much higher than 1?)

it might be hard to get much community input here but that's my 2c at least.

BTW what counts as classic? seems like there's some stuff missing here (if bee storm can pass as classic then + more psikyos, garegga, and more, which should be easy enough to get input on)
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Re: Classic arcade shooter difficulty ranking

Post by Perikles »

First of all many thanks for all the input! I'll add a few notes later (such as the no checkpoint version regarding Raiden etc.) and might think about a handful of ratings. As for a few points (and I want to expliclity point out that when I'm "disagreeing", I'm merely trying to describe how I perceive things, I'm not "denying" any of your arguments!):
trap15 wrote:- Master of Weapon is nowhere near that hard, you just have to get drunk and ignore the background. I'd drop it at least 6 points, probably more.
That's one of those games I find indeed hard to place. On one hand, it is not quite as consistently hard as Raiden II or DX. However, it is the only tough vertical in that difficulty range where you don't get any bombs at all (the one-time bomb sub-weapon doesn't count). You'll have to survive everything just by dodging the entire time, no panic button or anything. Combine that with the bullet wobble and the fact that deaths can be extremely punishing (I don't think you can really beat the final boss without at least a few power-ups or at least not easily) and you end up with a brutal game.

Vludi wrote:-Raiden: I would remark that it's the no checkpoints version, since the one with checkpoints is probably as difficult as Raiden 2/DX.
Really? :shock: The checkpoints themselves aren't that important since you want to beat the game on your first life in any case, so I'm going to assume that the difficulty of the Japanese version is just so much higher (by means of bullet speed etc.)? I should check that out for sure!
Vludi wrote:-Scramble: I would add that multilooping it would be like +10 points, the game reaches max difficulty at loop 3 or 4 and even then it's easy to master (I cleared 10 loops without much practice), the only difficult part is that you only get one extend.
I'll add something along those lines, I've cleared a bunch of loops myself but wasn't sure just how/when the difficulty is at its highest.
Vludi wrote:-I remember Baron Rojo told me that Thunder Dragon was easier to clear than TD2, mainly because the extends help a lot.
I'm a bit mystified by the first Thunder Dragon to be honest. On top of the general problems with it (colossal hitbox, visibility, some cheap tricks) there're also some occurrences I haven't figured out (yet). For example, it seems like only the first extend is guaranteed, the others may or may not appear. I've also seen in Baron Rojo's replay that he was able to just hug the lower borders of the screen to take out the incoming popcorn enemies in the final level, when I do that in my savestate I just get shot in the face from enemies that aren't even on-screen at that point. Maybe it has to do with rank or some other factor.

Plasmo wrote:But Gradius III more difficult than IV? That's the first time I hear about such a view.
Yes, certainly. IV has a few spots that are arguably tougher than their equivalents in III (crystal/bubble stage, moai stage, cell stage), but due to the dynamic rank you're always able to recover from every spot in the game without extreme prior knowledge. A death in III in the wrong spot is an instant game over if you don't have the necessary arcane knowledge - and for all intents and purposes you're better off starting a new credit and playing for as long as it takes to get past tricky spots instead of learning those checkpoint recoveries which would take much longer. III is also about twice as long as IV (depending on how many times you die on the cube rush) and has a tendency to sap away your concentration by the time you reach the dangerous final stage. It additionally has nasty bouts of slowdown that love to subside all of a sudden, thus tossing unaware players into walls and whatnot.
Plasmo wrote:And a question: where would you rank Hacha Mecha Fighters? Would be cool if you try it out if you haven't already. :)
Haven't played much of it, but from what little I've actually experienced and watched via videos it has to be way up there. When I'm feeling brave enough I'll took a closer look. :)

chum wrote:the higher numbers seem pretty inflated on the whole[...]
Feel free to point out other examples if you have anything specific in mind. :) It's always good to have more input from an expert player such as yourself! What games (in general, not just from the ones I've listed) would you put in the highest spots (say, from 36-45)?
chum wrote:maybe this is just me, but bee storm is not a hard 1cc bya ny means, and gun.smoke is hands down one of the hardest to beat shmups i have played, i would put it up there as high as tatsujin ou which is mildly overrated.
I'm decidedly terrible at anything bullet hell, that's why Bee Storm is so high up there. Gun.Smoke is overall a tough game, but there's not much of a penalty to dying. You also earn many extends which furthermore eases the pressure. The margin of error is just overall considerably bigger which is not the case in most games above it. I will say that the final boss is a veritable jerk, though.
chum wrote:there are some other things i would change around as well, strikers 1-alls are easy for example (why is ii so much higher than 1?)
I'm also quite horrendous at Psikyo. :mrgreen: II has a lot more fast bullets and patterns than the first one or so I find. I had not much of a problem memorizing safe routes for the first Strikers while the second one threw me off quite a bit.
chum wrote:BTW what counts as classic? seems like there's some stuff missing here (if bee storm can pass as classic then + more psikyos, garegga, and more, which should be easy enough to get input on)
I've just added what little I've played of Psikyo and those DDP games to have a contrast to the other, mostly "classic", games. I'm very interested to hear how seasoned Cave/Psikyo/Raizing/... players would fit in those respective games in a comprehensive list. Maybe we should create another thread where we compile a list with all the arcade games together, as a community project? That way, particularly high/low numbers might get corrected by others, creating a more balanced list overall.
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Re: Classic arcade shooter difficulty ranking

Post by BIL »

Great thread, as is to be expected from Perikles. :cool:

I am woefully inexperienced on the STG 1CC front, but feel like adding my 2c on Gun.Smoke, one of my few 1CCs listed (along with the formidable Thunder Cross :oops: :mrgreen:). In addition to Perikles' point on its surprising generosity with resources, it's quite idiosyncratic among "traditional" STGs. Both its strafing system, and the intense focus on short-ranged duelling with lethally persistent zako. My gaming history is more in run n' guns/topdown shooting ala Commando, so I took to the strafing and ground combat quite quickly... and I distinctly remember the game really breaking open once I got inside the head of its mainstay "Grey" enemy. This is all very specialised skill, though - I still get my blackened, disintegrating buttocks hurled back in my face by things like Gradius III and Image Fight.

So I'm not surprised to hear a more accomplished player like chum might find it tougher than someone like me, who's spent a lot of time adapting to this one specific, slightly oddball title.

Metal Black is noticeably similar in regards to idiosyncrasy and deceptive generosity, I think - though I must stress, I'd rate its innate toughness nowhere near Gun.Smoke's.
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Re: Classic arcade shooter difficulty ranking

Post by chum »

all right, maybe I'm making too much of gun.smoke. let's call that a personal struggle. (getting past stage 6 urgh...)
Perikles wrote:Feel free to point out other examples if you have anything specific in mind. :) It's always good to have more input from an expert player such as yourself! What games (in general, not just from the ones I've listed) would you put in the highest spots (say, from 36-45)?
i'm sure you are aware there is nobody else on this forum with anywhere near as much experience/understanding as you have across all these arcade games. so keep in mind this is only my opinion. i think tatsujin ou and zing zing zip at the very least are a bit overrated here. you also admitted that you struggle with the more bullet hell variety shmups which explains why some games are a bit high to me like bee storm and strikers ii. IMO you shouldn't change anything and just leave this list as your own personal opinion. then if we want to as a community we can try to make our own list if we want. the problem with this obvious though: very few people have sufficient experience on the higher games. that other japanese list would be helpful, though. personally i have not beaten a harder game than gunbird 2 and there's definitely still harder stuff than that like daioujou (white label) and... i guess detana twinbee!?!? had no idea that game was that tough in the 2nd loop but i'll take your word for it. hacha mecha fighter 2nd loop must surely be harder than daioujou though, unless some magician shows me how the hell that is supposed to be done in the later half (some exploit?)

i would give gunbird 2 something in mid-high 30s range BTW.

and is S!S!S! really that hard? not just unforgiving, but flat out THAT hard? O_o gotta play that more some time...
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Re: Classic arcade shooter difficulty ranking

Post by Mero »

Tough bosses in Gun.Smoke is the main obstacle imo.

I could get to the stage 6 boss every time (many, many times) but I only ever beat him about 3 times.
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Re: Classic arcade shooter difficulty ranking

Post by trap15 »

chum wrote:and is S!S!S! really that hard? not just unforgiving, but flat out THAT hard? O_o gotta play that more some time...
I do feel it's a bit overrated, but it's a few notches above Raiden II at least. Once you hit stage 5, the gauntlet's thrown and it's ready to fuck you up the ass.

Checkpoint recovery is almost completely impossible after stage 2 or so, best you'll do is limp along an additional stage with your 12 stocked up extra lives. Lightning fast bullets -- even faster than Raiden II generally -- and lots of cheap tricks as well as fast moving highly aggressive zakos, it's a game intentionally designed to be one of the hardest of the hard. And that's why I love it :)
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Re: Classic arcade shooter difficulty ranking

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Great list, love this sort of thing. At a glance the only things I'd see I'd adjust:

* Batsugun Special 1-ALL would be down at a 3 or 2. I find it's unbelievably easy thanks to the smaller hitbox, shield power, and much beefier bomb (it's the 2-player combo attack bomb from the original game). Regardless of ship you're using, I'd say it's easier than a Raiga: Strato Fighter 1st loop clear. Raiga isn't a super difficult game, but recovery can be pretty nasty if you make a mistake since you're pretty seriously depowered.

* 2-ALL clear of Raiga would be up at 14 or so. I find the original Batsugun and DonPachi generally more manageable thanks to the bombs, whereas Raiga is really long. You can stock a bunch of lives in Raiga, but one death can lead to multi-life chain deaths due to how depowered you are. If you just want a DonPachi 1-ALL or Batsugun clear, good use of bombs help make those a bit easier than Raiga, at least as far as I felt.

I haven't cleared anything higher than a 14 on this ;___; Did do pretty well towards working towards a Salamander 2-ALL (which is unbelievably nasty with rank, as well as in the second loop) and reached the TLB of DDP II: BS (not quite cleared it yet). This is a really impressive list of game clears!
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Re: Classic arcade shooter difficulty ranking

Post by OmegaFlareX »

Can you give some more details on why you feel Twin Hawk is a decent amount harder than Daisenpu? Usually with the overseas Toaplan versions where checkpoints are removed, they are considered easier.
chum wrote:and is S!S!S! really that hard? not just unforgiving, but flat out THAT hard? O_o gotta play that more some time...
Yes, it's fucking brutal. Even on the easiest dips, and using Trap's hack for better speed and insta-power-ups, I can't seem to get past stage 3. The bullets are way too fast, even at that early point in the game (there are 10 stages). Fire Shark has a much gentler difficulty curve but it still gets to mayhem levels stages 5 and beyond.
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Re: Classic arcade shooter difficulty ranking

Post by pegboy »

It's unbelievable that you've cleared 400 games now!!!

The only one I really disagree on is Raiden, although I guess you played the US version without checkpoints? The Japanese version is basically a 1 life game, where none of the checkpoints are recoverable. Hell, I'd argue that the checkpoints in Raiden are worse than those in Gradius III. Raiden is a 28 or 29 to me.

Also, in the US version, when you die fully powered you get a free P powerup (in addition to not having checkpoints), which makes a massive difference IMO. Sure, if you can 1 life the game they are basically equivalent, but a run with deaths is at least possible in the US version while it just isn't in the Japanese version.

Overall, an awesome and impressive list of games, thanks for taking the time and doing this, it's such a great resource!
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Re: Classic arcade shooter difficulty ranking

Post by Vludi »

OmegaFlareX wrote:Can you give some more details on why you feel Twin Hawk is a decent amount harder than Daisenpu? Usually with the overseas Toaplan versions where checkpoints are removed, they are considered easier.
Keyword usually, Twin Hawk removes the checkpoints but it adds awful damage sponge enemies everywhere, Daisenpuu is overall a fairer game and the checkpoints are pretty recoverable (like most Toaplan games)
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Re: Classic arcade shooter difficulty ranking

Post by wizkid »

Did you play 1942 or the original 1943? Where would you place them if you 1cc'ed them?
IMO you shouldn't change anything and just leave this list as your own personal opinion.
agreed
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Re: Classic arcade shooter difficulty ranking

Post by Perikles »

First of all and again thank you for all your input! I find it not only highly interesting to read, but also rewarding to see how some views differ. A few things have been added:

- Some minor corrections/standardizations regarding spelling (e.g. the game's called Forgotten Worlds, not "Forgotten World" :oops:).

- I suppose that should be obvious, but I also added another note in the preamble that these values concern the default settings. This should be normal difficulty or the equivalent thereof for almost every game unless noted otherwise, one noteworthy exception would be Star Force which is set to the easiest difficulty - the normal mode in that one is downright silly.

- Added a note for the version in Raiden as well as looping in Scramble.

- Three new games: Finalizer: Super Transformation (12), Thunder Dragon (32) and Valtric (27). Turns out that Valtric is merely tough if you know how to turn the sprite limit against the final boss, without that trick it would indeed be extremely hard (probably what the Japanese wiki intended). The first Thunder Dragon I do find harder than the second, it fits very well with its awkward brethrens Master of Weapon and Zing Zing Zip. Finalizer is one of the most bizarre - and worst - games I've ever played, more on that in alio loco.

- Also came up with another speculative goal: a full Raiden DX clear, starting from the training course, all the way through one loop. You have to qualify in training first (which means you have to play really well), starting from 1-1 you effectively enter the second loop in terms of difficulty, and from 1-6 onwards it's loop 3 difficulty. That would qualify as one of the hardest clears out there within the classic realm.

________
chum wrote:i guess detana twinbee!?!? had no idea that game was that tough in the 2nd loop but i'll take your word for it.
It doesn't look hard at all, but due to the laughable hitboxes you simply can't survive the suicide bullets since the game is clearly not designed for these. That means that you have to perfectly counter every single little enemy with the shippo barriers that can neutralize bullets, yet move around in an incredibly awkward pattern. It's the ultimate test of dedication, patience and routing since you cannot handle a damn thing on reaction. There're also additional enemies on top of everything else to add insult to injury. Dying once is an instant game over.

pegboy wrote:The only one I really disagree on is Raiden, although I guess you played the US version without checkpoints? The Japanese version is basically a 1 life game, where none of the checkpoints are recoverable. Hell, I'd argue that the checkpoints in Raiden are worse than those in Gradius III. Raiden is a 28 or 29 to me.

Also, in the US version, when you die fully powered you get a free P powerup (in addition to not having checkpoints), which makes a massive difference IMO. Sure, if you can 1 life the game they are basically equivalent, but a run with deaths is at least possible in the US version while it just isn't in the Japanese version.
As mentioned above, I added a note for Raiden. The only time I've cleared the game (indeed one of the Western versions without checkpoints) was on my first life, so I certainly had that in mind when creating that entry on the list. Maybe the Japanese version is also simply harder in addition to the checkpoints? I'm going to check that out eventually!
Vludi wrote:
OmegaFlareX wrote:Can you give some more details on why you feel Twin Hawk is a decent amount harder than Daisenpu? Usually with the overseas Toaplan versions where checkpoints are removed, they are considered easier.
Keyword usually, Twin Hawk removes the checkpoints but it adds awful damage sponge enemies everywhere, Daisenpuu is overall a fairer game and the checkpoints are pretty recoverable (like most Toaplan games)
Precisely. Twin Hawk's larger enemies and bosses take an absurd amount of damage, even with autofire you're not going to kill the battle cruisers unless you're at full power and constantly point-blanking. That easily leads to unavoidable concatenations of deaths that are simply not present in Daisenpuu where you die once and then merrily proceed.
wizkid wrote:Did you play 1942 or the original 1943? Where would you place them if you 1cc'ed them?
I have played a little bit of 1942, but next to nothing of the original 1943. I don't know how much of a factor the final boss in 1942 is (especially with autofire), but I would guess it would land somewhere in the 23-26 range, that might be very wrong, though. I have the impression that it's slightly above average in terms of overall difficulty, but it is excessively long and (in my opinion) mind-numbingly boring which results in credits just melting away after a while.
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Re: Classic arcade shooter difficulty ranking

Post by Jaimers »

I feel like V-V is way too high on the list.
I might be biased since tons of people during STGT'12 managed to 2-ALL that in a week.
Myself and three other people even perfect no-missed 2-ALL'd it.
The 1st loop at some point almost managed to put me to sleep and the 2nd loop really isn't that bad.
Sure it has suicide bullets but they are super wimpy in terms of suicide bullets.
There is also tons of room for error since you get shields, which means you can take a million hits and still clear.

Also yeah DDP2 is waaaaay and waaaaay too high. It's not a hard game by any means and it's super cheezable.
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Re: Classic arcade shooter difficulty ranking

Post by Shepardus »

Nice list! I think Darius Gaiden's rather high up for how easy it is with autofire, and maybe TwinBee (half the difficulty in that game's first loop is simply learning how to power up at the start). I also find Strikers 1945 II easier than Strikers 1945 (if only because the stage order is fixed on startup and there's less input lag in MAME), and Gunbird also easier than Strikers 1945 (though that's with Marion). Other than that I largely agree with this list (though I haven't cleared the vast majority of these games).

Where do you reckon a Gradius III 2-ALL would fall?
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Re: Classic arcade shooter difficulty ranking

Post by Dumple »

It's really interesting to see a list from one person, where the difficulty ratings are all from the same scale. I'll be looking to this list for ideas on future 1cc attempts.

I haven't cleared anything ranked at 20+, so in those rarefied realms I can't offer any informed opinions on rank ordering, just admiration.

Our arcade 1cc lists have about 18 games in the intersection, and generally I'd rank things in about the same difficulty range (plus or minus one or two). Most of the differences can probably be chalked to differences in personal taste and style, and maybe me mis-remembering the difficulty of games I cleared years ago.
- I play without autofire, and I think that explains some of the differences - for instance, I had a bit more trouble with both Fire Barrel and Fantasy Zone.
- I saw a couple of entries that surprised me with how high they were ranked, Ultimate Ecology and Sonic Wings 2. In both cases I played the US version (Eco Fighters / Aero Fighters 2), so I'll bet there could be version differences that explain why I rank them lower. Or, maybe it comes down to differences in routing - both of those games permit some cheesy low-risk tactics. (I'd put Eco fighters at a 14 or so, Aero Fighters 2 around a 12).
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Re: Classic arcade shooter difficulty ranking

Post by 5pectre »

Maybe I'm mistaking 1943 Kai for regular 1943, but it seems to be too high on the list when all that game is about is keeping the shotgun going? Above Darius Gaiden and DoDonpachi? I find those two games harder. Way harder.
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Re: Classic arcade shooter difficulty ranking

Post by Perikles »

And I do still think it would be a great idea to create something in this vein as a community project - we might not get that many opinions on some obscure games, but probably for most of them. I actually feel a bit bad about not changing things accordingly...

Jaimers wrote:I feel like V-V is way too high on the list.
[...]
Also yeah DDP2 is waaaaay and waaaaay too high. It's not a hard game by any means and it's super cheezable.
I would imagine that both games are much easier for someone as prodigious as you are at this sort of game (genre, really). :) That's not meant as a feeble defense, I actually agree that my DDP2 rating in particular is really more of a reflection of how bad I am at it and games like it.
Jaimers wrote:I might be biased since tons of people during STGT'12 managed to 2-ALL that in a week.
I will say in this instance, however, that I always see the achievements during past STGT's moreso as a proof of how many skilled players use(d) to participate. During that same STGT, there were also 8 Strikers 1999 2-ALLs - and I would imagine that most people wouldn't consider any Psikyo 2-ALL that is not Sengoku Ace to be easy at all.

Shepardus wrote:Where do you reckon a Gradius III 2-ALL would fall?
From my futile savestate attempts at getting any consistency at it, I would definitely say it is harder than every game I have cleared so far. Probably not as hard as a Parodius Da! 2-ALL, so I would assume a 43 or so. The game and its penchant for wayward slowdowns was clearly not designed for suicide bullets, let's not even speak about the bubble stage... Image

Dumple wrote:In both cases I played the US version (Eco Fighters / Aero Fighters 2), so I'll bet there could be version differences that explain why I rank them lower.
I do know that there are version differences between the first Sonic Wings/Aero Fighters (more than anyone could count in that case) and I've read that apparently, the European version of Sonic Wings 3 is harder than other sets, so it wouldn't be surprised about Sonic Wings 2, either, although I'm not sure.

5pectre wrote:Maybe I'm mistaking 1943 Kai for regular 1943, but it seems to be too high on the list when all that game is about is keeping the shotgun going? Above Darius Gaiden and DoDonpachi? I find those two games harder. Way harder.
Maybe I overlooked something, but while the shotgun neutralizes shots, it does pitiful damage against bosses and larger enemies which is why I switched to the laser for those. This added a bit of tension/risk of dying, making it a tiny bit harder than Darius Gaiden and DDP that allow you to bomb away.
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Plasmo
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Re: Classic arcade shooter difficulty ranking

Post by Plasmo »

Perikles wrote:
Jaimers wrote:I might be biased since tons of people during STGT'12 managed to 2-ALL that in a week.
I will say in this instance, however, that I always see the achievements during past STGT's moreso as a proof of how many skilled players use(d) to participate. During that same STGT, there were also 8 Strikers 1999 2-ALLs - and I would imagine that most people wouldn't consider any Psikyo 2-ALL that is not Sengoku Ace to be easy at all.
Strikers 99 isn't too bad and compared to some other Psikyo's rather easy I would say.

On a similar note, P-47 Aces was cleared by 11 people in one week as well and it's comparatively high up there on that list.
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Re: Classic arcade shooter difficulty ranking

Post by KoopaTGR »

Thanks for your efforts! These lists really help when I can't think of something to play. :D
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Re: Classic arcade shooter difficulty ranking

Post by copy-paster »

Nice list! I wonder how hard Detana Twinbee 2-ALL is compared to Parodius Da 2-ALL?

Regarding to Darius Gaiden, how much the rank if played without autofire?

Also, is the training route in Raiden DX really that easy? I found it's more difficult than Batsugun Special, and why you using 2P ship?
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Re: Classic arcade shooter difficulty ranking

Post by maximo310 »

copy-paster wrote: Also, is the training route in Raiden DX really that easy? I found it's more difficult than Batsugun Special, and why you using 2P ship?
Yes, I managed to get a clear on my first credit ( although it was a crap score). If playing for survival, you get a ton of bombs thrown your way, and the bullet speed isn't fast compared to expert course, or raiden i/ii for that matter. However, if you're trying to go for score, or loop into advanced/expert, then it does become harder mainly due to hoarding bombs/no-miss, and destroying practically every single enemy.

2p ship has faster horizontal movement which made dodging patterns easier imo.
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Re: Classic arcade shooter difficulty ranking

Post by chum »

Plasmo wrote: Strikers 99 isn't too bad and compared to some other Psikyo's rather easy I would say.
it's not an enormous difference but it is easier than: Gunbird 2, Strikers 1945 1 & 2, Dragon Blaze, maybe Sengoku Blade (?)

This will refer to 2nd loops

Gunbird 2: It might be the hardest Psikyo game to clear, at least it is surely top3. Practice and good patterns is required. Dying is a sin.

Strikers 1945 II: It has the potential to be as hard as Gunbird 2 or even harder, but maybe that would change with sufficient practice? They are comparable. Parts of this loop are absolutely brutal in my opinion

Strikers 1945: Is it as hard as Strikers II and Gunbird 2? Preference. I think the general difficulty is lower, although you may want to play on reaction a little more than usual for Psikyo to clear this. The reason it may be up there is cause you can't carry as many bombs. Also, I assume Boyfriend ship is used. I don't know how good P-51 can cheese.

Dragon Blaze: Another preference kind of game. If you play it "right" and "safe", I think it may be easier than the above. I am too greedy to know ideal survival routes that well...

Strikers 1999: I would be interested in how hard it is with less overpowered ships. Part of its relative easiness to other Strikers can be attributed to X36, I think, although it is also a bit easier designed. It will require practice to beat, but you can be undiligent and use shoddy routes and play a lot on reaction here and still win.

Sengoku Ace: Far easier than all of the above. A matter of some fairly simple memorization and you can beat it without skill.

as for...
Sengoku Blade: how does it place? Below Dragon Blaze? It seems challenging to me, and is clearly on another level from the prequel, but I don't have experience

Gunbird: lack experience with 2nd loop here as well

assuming 1-15 challenging for beginner, 16-30 challenging for intermediate player, 31-45 challenging for veteran, and over 45 as totally nightmare difficulty even for superplayers, I grade them around this:

Gunbird 2: 37-38 (Hei-Cob difficulty seems to be 40+)
Strikers 1945 II: 36-38
Strikers 1945: 35-37 (my experience is slightly insufficient)
Dragon Blaze: 34-35
Strikers 1999 30-32 (how about without X36?)
Sengoku Ace: 17-18
^only cleared 3 of them but I have practiced all the loops before

in the first loop, I think most of them are more even, and I would put them mostly in the 13-15 area, but I think Sengoku Ace and Gunbird (?) are easier and can be 10 or less. Gunbird memories are hazy.

Psikyo games are so survival based and balanced around this, that I don't find it weird to think about them in this way (normally I care about score completely.)

input would be appreciated!
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Re: Classic arcade shooter difficulty ranking

Post by pegboy »

As for psikyo, I've done Strikers 1945 Plus, 1945 II, 1999, and would pretty much agree with the Japanese wiki on where they stand. Haven't played the original 1945 yet but it's probably in the same range as II from what I've seen. Lyv and BOS have both cleared a bunch of psikyo second loops and could help with these ratings too.

1945 II is definitely the hardest of the 3 (that I've cleared), you have very, very little leeway and a death before the blimp stage (2-4 in the default order) and you might as well restart.
1945 Plus & 1999 are about the same difficulty, if you use the Pancake and X-36 respectively. I'd probably rank 1945 plus higher just because you have a 6 bomb limit whereas 1999 has a 9 bomb limit and also gives you more bombs in general.

One think worth noting is that the first loop of 1945 Plus I'd rank MUCH higher first loop of II or 1999, and it's the only one of the 3 games where I used bombs in the first loop out of necessity. I could no-miss/no-bomb II & 1999 without too much trouble after practicing them.

My ratings:
2-ALL Strikers 1945 II (Hayate/Pancake?) - 39
2-ALL Strikers 1945 Plus (Pancake) - 36
2-ALL Strikers 1999 (X-36) - 35
1-ALL Strikers 1945 Plus - 23
1-ALL Strikers 1945 II - 20
1-ALL Strikers 1999 - 19
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Re: Classic arcade shooter difficulty ranking

Post by Vludi »

@chum I agree with Strikers 1945, 35 sounds about right, the early stages are quite difficult but it gets easier towards the end. Also agree with Strikers II, while you have more bombs it's also a considerably more difficult game with lots of tricky situations. Sengoku Ace isn't hard but I'd put it in the early 20s, still just a minor difference.
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