DVDO EDGE - How it performs

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PascalP
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by PascalP »

Good info!
So I better skip on the EDGE then as PC Engine and Saturn are often used.
All my consoles are NTSC so don't have to bother with PAL line triple mode.

Any major differences/benefits to prefer a VP50pro over a VP50, or a VP50 over a VP30 etc.?
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Xyga
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by Xyga »

found some figures for reference;
BuckoA51 wrote:As I recall my PAL modded MD1 DID have that issue, basically the vertical sync is too far off spec.

Just tested a bunch of other systems

Super Famicom - 8ms
Sega Saturn (Jap) - 25ms
Atari Jaguar - 7ms (PAL)
PC Engine - 25ms
N64 - 25ms
Dreamcast - 6ms

All the systems that had the additional lag were the ones with vertical refresh rates like 59.83 etc.
Xyga wrote:- MD2 (60Hz switched): -25ms
- Ibara (pcb): -25ms
- Turbo Force (pcb): -8ms (input info says 720x478i@61.45Hz)
- Dogyuun (pcb): -25ms
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Harrumph
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by Harrumph »

Xyga wrote: The VP's however don't accept locked linetripled PAL sources, so they can't do low lag in that particular case (all of them? don't remember as well but likely)
If this is in regards to OSSC output, maybe you can try the Lx3 tweak that worked on my TV: reduce V.Active to 240 and then increase V.Backporch until you get an image (~40-45).
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by ZellSF »

PascalP wrote:Good info!
So I better skip on the EDGE then as PC Engine and Saturn are often used.
All my consoles are NTSC so don't have to bother with PAL line triple mode.

Any major differences/benefits to prefer a VP50pro over a VP50, or a VP50 over a VP30 etc.?
VP50 Pro has Edge/Detail enhancement (can be set to negative values) that allows you to fine tune the picture to look as soft or sharp as you want. That's the big advantage of it, though there are a few others. Get it if you want the best.

You can save quite a bit of money by going with the VP50 though and chances are pretty good you won't have any problems with the picture quality of it. Especially not in OSSC 3x and 5x(1080p) modes, maybe a little in 480i and 480p modes.

The VP30 when I've seen it has gone for almost as much as the VP50 and it lacks some advanced deinterlacing options (unless it has a somewhat rare ABT102 card) so I'm not sure there's a reason to get it today unless you can get a really good price.

Maybe this is oversimplified enough for someone to jump in with more details so I won't mislead you. :wink:
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Xyga
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by Xyga »

ZellSF wrote:
Any major differences/benefits to prefer a VP50pro over a VP50, or a VP50 over a VP30 etc.?
VP50 Pro has Edge/Detail enhancement (can be set to negative values) that allows you to fine tune the picture to look as soft or sharp as you want. That's the big advantage of it, though there are a few others. Get it if you want the best.

You can save quite a bit of money by going with the VP50 though and chances are pretty good you won't have any problems with the picture quality of it. Especially not in OSSC 3x and 5x(1080p) modes, maybe a little in 480i and 480p modes.
Honestly even though it lacks EE/DE the default (or negative) sharpness setting on the VP30 produces a faint smoothness (due to the meh scaling perhaps) over the picture that's actually really nice, looks great over upscaled 720p 360 shmups for instance.
I supose the VP50 does a similar thing, maybe with a few more steps I don't know.
When playing on a LCD the display's own blur adds to the smoothness anyway, so while a perfectly tuned smoothness via 50Pro/EDGE looks indeed awesome while still, the benefits won't be so much obvious in motion.
ZellSF wrote:The VP30 when I've seen it has gone for almost as much as the VP50 and it lacks some advanced deinterlacing options (unless it has a somewhat rare ABT102 card) so I'm not sure there's a reason to get it today unless you can get a really good price.

Maybe this is oversimplified enough for someone to jump in with more details so I won't mislead you. :wink:
The ABT102 is only interesting for its great ringing-free, 2 frames delay, 480i deinterlacing, yep.
Other little benefit of the VP30 (and other alike pre-pro/edge dvdo's) is that it is silent and doesn't heat up to crazy temperatures. Some people might like that...
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s0m
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by s0m »

How does one measure lag down to the millisecond?
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by Galgomite »

The VP20 (VP30's stripped down cousin) with ABT102 card and OSSC is the best retro gaming experience I've had so far. Its scaling has no drawbacks (IMO) and the granular zoom let me have perfect scanlines on my old plasma for the first time. The only thing I wish it had is the Edge's slick interface.
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by BuckoA51 »

How does one measure lag down to the millisecond?
The Edge has a lip sync delay that's calibrated automatically to the lag that the units adding to the chain. It's been tested against the Leo Bodnar lag tester and been found to be quite accurate.
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Xyga
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by Xyga »

Not just the EDGE!
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PascalP
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by PascalP »

Xyga wrote:Not just the EDGE!
VP50 as well?
Just got one of those in, can't wait to try it :)
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Xyga
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by Xyga »

There isn't much to try with video games, you will be able to see the delay with 50Hz and 60Hz, locked or unlocked, (or with different deinterlacing modes) but they are pretty much always the same. You'll come back to check on it only when you have doubts over a specific configuration.
Only the EDGE shows broader variations in lag, so that 'tool' is more useful with it than with the older/VPs.
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by s0m »

Can I see the delay on a VP50pro? AV Lipsync is always at 0ms, unless I manually adjust it. Does the auto adjustment need to be enabled?
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Xyga
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by Xyga »

s0m wrote:Can I see the delay on a VP50pro? AV Lipsync is always at 0ms, unless I manually adjust it. Does the auto adjustment need to be enabled?
Slide it down in the minus, how many ms you can do so = how much delay there is.
(don't forget to put it back to 0 after checking)
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s0m
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by s0m »

Cool. Thanks for the info!
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Overkill
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by Overkill »

Does anyone knows, or remember what was the last oficial firmware released for the original DVDO Edge? I'm on the 1.62, and I found here the 1.63, was any after that?
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by Fudoh »

yes, that's it. Nothing after that.
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Overkill
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by Overkill »

Thanks Fudoh
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by Overkill »

Ok, just upgraded FW. It's the first time I'm connecting the Edge on my LG Oled, just to play Wii: Will be better to leave 480p on output for Edge and let the TV scale by itself, or should I choose 720p, or 1080p for Edge output?
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Fudoh
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by Fudoh »

The Wii doesn't scale very well. Give it a try and let's hear what you find to be better. Your best option for Cube and Wii is probably an OSSC to have the picture "hard-doubled" to 960p.
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Kez
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by Kez »

My Edge Green has suddenly stopped sending audio via HDMI video. Optical out works fine. I've tried different cables, a factory reset and updated the firmware to no avail. Anyone have insight into what might be causing this?
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by SurferGuy420 »

I made a post about this problem a couple days ago that for whatever reason never got approved by the mods? :| But I have the same problem with both a VP30 AND an Edge Green where neither of them are sending audio via HDMI.

I've tried every settings combination I possibly could and nothing works at all. A Sega Saturn into the VP30 with the latest firmware via S-video+RCA and the options set to Audio In: Stereo + Audio Out: HDMI results in a picture with no sound - however a MegaSG plugged into the same VP30 via HDMI with the options set to Passthrough have the same result - no sound over HDMI. This happens both with the VP30 and the Edge Green. Changed HDMI cables as well to no avail, and the systems themselves produce audio just fine when connected directly to the displays.

Does anyone have any idea why these DVDO systems are just killing audio over HDMI? :(
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by tongshadow »

Are you guys still finding any uses for these machines? Not only the Edge.
My VP30 hasnt seen alot of action since I moved away from digital displays for my PS2.
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orange808
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by orange808 »

I still use a Duo.

Does anyone have the cd that came with the Edge and the launch day firmware? I don't have an Edge, but I think they may have introduced the Edge bug in later firmwares when they patched the deinterlacing.
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by NoAffinity »

My vp30 also doesnt see much use. Every once in a blue moon I will mess around with it just because, but there isnt anything it can do that ossc, gbs-c and retrotink 2x mini dont do much better.

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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by orange808 »

NoAffinity wrote:My vp30 also doesnt see much use. Every once in a blue moon I will mess around with it just because, but there isnt anything it can do that ossc, gbs-c and retrotink 2x mini dont do much better.

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That's not completely true. DVDO's are fairly tolerant of irregular signals and they are true video scalers. The deinterlacing on the GBS is rather bad in comparison to the DVDO machines.

Of course, the RetroTink5x is already offering a really good value proposition. That's probably the best video game processor right now. But, everyone has different needs and preferences. I still prefer my OSSC chained through a secondary video processor most of the time, but that wouldn't make sense for everyone else.
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by NoAffinity »

orange808 wrote: That's not completely true. DVDO's are fairly tolerant of irregular signals and they are true video scalers. The deinterlacing on the GBS is rather bad in comparison to the DVDO machines.
I did a side by side comparison video of gbs control compared to VP-30's deinteralcing game modes. I'll agree that the vp-30 produces a slightly sharper deinterlaced image.

https://youtu.be/qVZx0fzYeK0

To my eye, Game Mode 2 is the cleanest image.

Note that the vp-30 has trouble with some scene transitions during the intro screens. If I remember correctly, that can potentially be mitigated by unlocking the frame rate, but the results aren't always reliable.

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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by Dochartaigh »

orange808 wrote:I still prefer my OSSC chained through a secondary video processor most of the time, but that wouldn't make sense for everyone else.
What secondary? (and for what use?) --just curious.
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by RocketBelt »

Still happy with a VP50 for deinterlacing and scaling duties, but first in the chain is an OSSC which does a better job of the digitising.
With regards to the question about audio, are you sure neither are sending audio out? Did you try another TV or receiver?
I've been caught out by this a couple of times, assume the problem's at one end then it turns out to be the other.
Otherwise, would try a factory reset to clear out any odd settings.
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by orange808 »

Dochartaigh wrote:
orange808 wrote:I still prefer my OSSC chained through a secondary video processor most of the time, but that wouldn't make sense for everyone else.
What secondary? (and for what use?) --just curious.
Not too much has changed behind the OSSC. There's not much happening with stand alone general purpose video processors these days. Streaming video over networking is all the rage now, video gear vendors aren't rolling anything interesting for us.

My iScan vp50pro is still holding on, despite idiosyncrasies. I still like the way OSSC line 3x and line 5x looks--and the vp50pro is remarkably tolerant of odd signals.

I have an iScan Duo for upscaling line 4x to 1080p. DLP beamers are particularly picky about receiving their "native resolution" to deliver low lag, so I keep the Duo around. It's on launch firmware (and missing many bugfixes and features), but I never could reproduce the Edge bug. It's got everything I need to upscale video games and I like the look of "line 4x in a 1080p frame" on the huge screen.

The VP50pro has the "game mode" deinterlacing options I prefer and it's useful sometimes.

I keep a Calibre Reon hooked up for tate, because it's easier than a proper beamer warp processor and pretty fast. The Dido Jr is easier to use, but the lag is too high. I could probably use it to do most of the upscaling, but the DVDOs are faster.

I still keep a Silicon Optix IA-100 around for the Faroudja deinterlacing, but it has a lot of lag. I don't use it much.

I am hoarding a HDFury Linker to upscale 1080p to 4k. It does a decent job with almost zero lag, so I keep it close by. It's also useful for downscaling 4k to a 1080p display, but I don't have a use case for that, anymore.

The Extron HD HD 4k is my 4k scaler of choice at one frame of lag, but I don't really need it right now. I'm hoarding that, too.

I use a Corio2 to downscale to 240p and an Extron VSC 300 unit for 480i. They both accept just about anything I throw at them--including 720p and 960p. I feed those the signal "before" or "after" the OSSC (depending on what makes sense) and reroute the downscaled signal to my CRTs using my switch.

Finally, I really like the look of my Darbee DVP-5000 on beamers, so it usually sits in front of whatever projector I'm using. The sharpening is overkill on an OLED, though (and it limits you to HDMI 1.4).
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Re: DVDO EDGE - How it performs

Post by kitty666cats »

I’ve been wanting a Darbeevision DVP-5000 / DVP-5000S for a while, jealous! The 5000S never goes up for sale on eBay, I only ever see the 5000 on there
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